Debating Copyright Extension In The UK
from the missing-the-point dept
Shane Richmond, who writes about technology and media for the Telegraph, recently handed over his blog to Martin Kretschmer and Horace Trubrudge for a debate about copyright extension (which is currently being discussed in the UK). Kretschmer is an intellectual property professor who is against copyright extension, while Trubrudge is the Assistant General Secretary of the British Musicians' Union, and (not surprisingly) favors copyright extension. You can read the back and forth as follows:- Kretschmer: We must not inhibit digital creators :: Shane Richmond
- Trubrudge: I am here to fight the corner of the UK's musicians
- Kretschmer: Musicians should see themselves as part of a continuum of creative endeavour
- Trubrudge: It's time performers' moral rights were strengthened
- Kretschmer: Redistributing from the living to the dead
- Trubrudge: 'What have you got against Cliff Richard'?
It's too bad the debate went in that direction, as the question of copyright extension is a really important one -- especially considering that it breaks a contract that the public made with musicians on the terms under which that content was created. It also ignores how such extensions limit the ability of new artists to build on older works -- which is a key component to many newer artists creating their own unique works of art. As an example of this, I point (again) to James Boyle's excellent discussion on how Ray Charles invented soul music by effectively "ripping off" other musicians, and how others have then built on Charles' work. Stringent copyright protection at the time may have prevented soul music from ever coming about. There are plenty of similar examples as well -- but unfortunately the debate doesn't seem to touch on that aspect at all.
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Filed Under: copyright, copyright extension, horace trubrudge, martin kretschmer, uk
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Truly
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Mechatronic Nut Sorter
we had to build a nut sorting machine, we gave it a George Bush twist
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Music is special because there is only so many notes, and styles often require many of the same notes in the same patterns. But it is that combination of notes, orchestration, lyrics, and other nuances that make musical performance unique in their own way. Mentioning Ray Charles creates a certain "oh my god" and gollification of the problem, but isn't particularly on point because we cannot go back and re-write history.
The only good news? If the rules were that strict, we would only even of hand to suffer through one gangsta rap tune.
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Re: WH
not again
more meaningless drivel from the under bridge dweller
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Re: Re: WH
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Re:
Isn't that sort of the point of "remix" culture? What about cover songs and usage of music in film? One could argue that these things make something new and unique, either in recorded music or in other art forms.
That's the trouble with copyright. What if I decide to cover some old Beatles' song in a new, funky way, and it happens to earn me some album sales and/or concert ticket sales? There is a chance I wouldn't have created this new music if I had to pay someone who had a "right" to this music. It stifles innovation (even if just a little tiny bit).
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Re: Re:
Cover songs are the same thing - you are just redoing the exact same musical expression as already done.
Using music on films isn't a question of "expanding", it's just using, see remixes.
That's the trouble with copyright. What if I decide to cover some old Beatles' song in a new, funky way, and it happens to earn me some album sales and/or concert ticket sales? There is a chance I wouldn't have created this new music if I had to pay someone who had a "right" to this music. It stifles innovation
nothing is stopping you from playing a funky new tune, If you want to play a funy version of an old tune, you have to pay for the rights to use that old tune. No innovation is stifled, if anything innovation is encouraged by making you NOT repeat what was already done.
Sorry,but those are all fairly weak arguments.
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A bit of loose language here.
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Re:
Not at all. It's taking something away from the public -- something that was agreed to as a part of a deal. They don't have it.
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Strongly agree with Mike here
When copyright is extended, the general public are in fact deprived of something; the original 'deal' with copyright was that creators would be granted some 'temporary' control over how others are allowed to copy and use their work, but eventually it becomes public domain and belongs to everybody. The length of copyright was agreed to at the time the work was created. Extending copyright forever (in twenty year installments) is theft, plain and simple.
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Re: Strongly agree with Mike here
But I have to disagree with your idea that taking a copy without paying the asking price is not also stealing.
The implied 'contract' runs both ways.
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I should not feed the troll but..
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Re: I should not feed the troll but..
You are busy proving why copyright helps to spur new ideas.
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Re: Re: I should not feed the troll but..
Just wondering if rewording the same tired old RIAA/MPAA arguments is considered creative? Did you need to get permission from anybody for that?
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Re: Re: Re: I should not feed the troll but..
QUite simply, it's my PERSONAL opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm sorry if you cannot accept that someone can actually have thoughts that aren't exactly like yours.
Answer the point: Why is redoing a Beatles song creative? Should I re-type Shakespeare and call it original because I used a different font?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I should not feed the troll but..
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I should not feed the troll but..
I have seen the music business up close and personal (I am not a musician, however), and I have also see a good part of the movie business much closer than most. So in a sense, yes, my exposure has been on their side. Yet, for almost 15 years I have been marketing online. I understand the public demand and how easy it is to fall into meeting only the public demand without considering the business implications. I have seen endless numbers of people come in with a big wad of money and a dream and leave with a tattered dream and a bankruptcy notice.
Understanding the implications of patent and copyright on the creative process is key. Many of the people complaining out the restrictions as a result of copyright aren't really that creative, they are more derivative. That is an important distinction.
When it comes to the business side, copyright and various other forms of rights management / licensing / etc are what pays to make the whole industry go. While everyone seems to be on that f--- the record labels and greedy bast--ds, there is a reason these people are there, and there is a reason licensing exists. It's what pays back the risk takers, it's what assures long term value for effort. It is the reward side of the risk / reward equation, one that would be so unbalanced as to make it unlikely to work without it.
So in the end, it all stitches together in one big thing, cutting out the pieces makes it all die. There is very little consideration given here for "what happens next", cries for revolution when evolution is working well.
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Ah-ha
I guess that means they also have claimed copyright on that which is not theirs.
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Copyright ad infinitum
Even so, let me point out that the (heavily subverted) purpose of IP law in general, including copyright, is NOT to "right the wrongs" for individuals, it is to "promote the general welfare"!!
Limiting our discussion to IP law (thereby avoiding contracts, etc., which should be "nother thing"), we do not promote the general welfare by stopping innovation - and that is what copyright is about, these days (well, it is also about shoveling money to politicians).
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Copyright extension - the equity factor
The same duration as the composer's copyright also applies to books, designs and artwork, so, again, why is the performer's art less valued? And let's not get into arguments about crap versions - there are also mediocre songs that are given new value by a magic performance. Not to mention the volumes of artworks, designs and books that are not to your taste (read crap if you must). And consider also that the record sleeve design and artwork as well as the composer get the life plus 70 years protection - just not the performers.
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