Schumer Tries To Force Scalpers To Register; Limit How They Buy And Sell Tickets
from the is-this-needed? dept
There's been plenty of complaining about how ticket scalpers for various concerts and sporting events have been scooping up all of the tickets for events and making it more expensive for fans to get those tickets. Of course, in many cases, companies like TicketMaster and the musicians themselves are in on the deal, pretending to offer "scalped" tickets that they're really selling themselves. With so much talk about this issue, you knew it was only a matter of time until some grandstanding politician got involved. In this case, it's New York's Chuck Schumer, who has introduced new legislation to try to limit ticket reselling (thanks to Eric Goldman for sending this over). It will require ticket resellers to "register" with the FTC, and then such official resellers will only be allowed to get tickets two days after the tickets go on sale.It's difficult to see what good this does, other than create a bigger bureaucratic mess. If you don't think that the ticket resellers will figure out workarounds, you haven't been paying much attention over the past few years. Besides, the very fact that Ticketmaster thinks this is a good law is a pretty damning sign that it's not doing much to solve the problem, but is really designed to help Ticketmaster make more money.
It's still difficult to see why these issues can't be solved effectively without legislation. Bands can offer early tickets through fan clubs or mailing lists, or use other tools to make sure fans get tickets at lower prices. Besides, if the demand really is that high for certain tickets, what's wrong with letting the market determine that?
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Filed Under: bureaucracy, chuck shumer, registering, reselling, scalping, tickets
Companies: ticketmaster
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Of course some will argue that a system should be set up so only fans could be able to buy the tickets first, but what's stopping a scalper from becoming a fan, getting the under-priced ticket, and selling them at a much higher market price? If there's a way to make money, someone will figure out a way to do it.
We accept that we cannot all afford to buy mansions, solid gold suits, and sports cars. In the same way we have to realize that not all of us can afford Bruce Springsteen tickets. That's not unfair, it's just simple economics.
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Re: What about allowing tickets to only be sold at face value?
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You are SOOOO funny. Hell, I am unable to go to any rock concerts now because paying $150, $170 or more for a pair of tickets is just freaking outrageous. Yes, there are music stars getting quite wealthy at those prices (as opposed to the recording houses), but for an average fan, unaffordable.
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You are so right. We keep hearing about monopoly pricing, and yet, where are the complaints about scalpers, who wait for tickets to become available and then suck them all up because working people are unable to be at the window when they go on sale? Oh, yeah, they are providing a valuable service by making sure that the average person does not get a ticket, but people who have that kind of money at their disposal buy the tickets. So much discussion about redistribution of wealth and yet where is the outrage regarding scalpers?
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Taking it online just makes it even easier for the resellers to get their tickets.
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Supply and Demand
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Re: Supply and Demand
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Re: Re: Supply and Demand
In all seriousness, if bands had the balls to price their tickets to what the richest fans could afford, they would eliminate scalping altogether. "Real fans" would pay the $1000 for the first 3 or 4 rows, and -$10 for each row back from there. Rafter seats would be $10, but that would only be for non-fans.
After all, if you can't bleed money all over your favorite band, you really aren't a fan.
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Re: Re: Re: Supply and Demand
I suggest that's a pretty fair way of going about it. Most people would pay around the same amount of money, with the front-row seats consistently going to the "I want to give the band money and I choose front-row seating as my goods-for-services medium" crowd. Pricing among the back rows would likely be a bit inconsistent across the length of the tour, but would probably even out.
And if huge numbers of people are consistently getting in for free, that probably indicates the band is booking wrong-sized venues, rather than a flaw in the system. Still, those free-riders would (in theory) get a "better" experience from seeing th band at a more-full venue and might be motivated to spend more money in future.
Sounds good to me.
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Unbelievable
The funny part is, the only group of leechers that MIGHT be bigger than the scalpers? Politicians! So now ubertard Schumer is going to fly in and save the day? Watch how quickly this all goes to hell...
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Re: Unbelievable
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Re:
If fans are willing to pay that much, musicians should sell tickets via an auction.
We don't have laws that prohibits stamp collectors from selling stamps at greater than face value? We don't have laws that prohibits art collectors from selling a painting or sculpture for more than they paid? Why should concert tickets receive special treatment?
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Re: Vincent
You are comparing apples to oranges. Works of art, stamps, and other collectibles will retain or increase in value over time. They are not exhausted once sold and 'used'. Past the date of the event, tickets have no inherent value. Thus, they have a different element of scarcity.
I think the auction format is good idea, but would be difficult to execute. One thought to prevent ticket re-selling would be that all tickets purchased within 48 hours of them going on sale have to be picked up at will call by the card holder on the day of the event. It's an inconvenience so it will never fly.
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Re: Re: Vincent
Not all art retains or increases in value.
I see no difficulty in an auction.
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Re: Re:
But even then, I'd still rather see a band I kinda like free, then pay through the nose for a band that I really like. Unless I get a BJ afterwards, $100+ is way too much for an evening of entertainment.
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Re: Re:
You missed one adjective. True, non-fans don't pay $1,000 for tickets, wealthy fans do.
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Re: Re: Re:
If an artist wants to play role of a socialist, there are several alternatives available - many of them have been listed in this discussion - to ensure that "non-wealthy" fans can not only go to the show, but that they can get great seats.
Then again, I think some people wouldn't mind it wealthy fans paid $1,000 if that meant crappy seats cost $10 or $25.
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As for payment of $1,000, that would be fine except the crappy seats usually cost $85 or $95.
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Who would go to an Eagles' reunion other than fans (or at the very least people that wanted to see them live)? No doubt some people bought tickets just to say they were there, but I'm thinking that there were far more fans than posers.
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I absolutely agree that there were probably far more fans than posers, but if even 20% of the tickets went to posers and wealthy people who were at best casual fans and who could pay scalper prices, it skews the price of tickets hugely.
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Re:
Why should it be illegal to sell what you legally bought?! You want to make it illegal to sell tickets. What if General Motors and Ford wanted it illegal to resell cars, as the used car market is killing the new car market? What if the apparel industry wanted to make it illegal to sell your used clothes, for the same reason?
Instead of creating laws that hinder our rights to sell what we buy, why not simply let the market sort it out. If someone wants to pay a $1000 to see a concert, let them! Problem solved.
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False capitalism
I work for a company that owns a ticket brokerage and I see the problems. The main problem is that traditional free market supply curve factors in scarcity of a good. Since tickets have a finite scarcity they are unlike most goods which are produced more or less constantly. If I'm a ticket broker or work in concert with other ticket brokers to purchase all remaining seats in a show I have exhausted supply. I can therefore charge, in some cases, 400% premiums on prices without having to sell all of my inventory to make a profit. By making even the least desirable seats unavailable I can artificially increase demand on the premium seats. I will probably charge well above market on the cheap seats actually to make my premium seats look more attractive and as the show nears and I've liquidated a good part of my inventory, then maybe I'll drop prices to reflect my inflated market value in hopes of selling all of my inventory.
Ticket brokering is not capitalism. They are a reseller that adds no value to the product.
The problem of Artists not selling tickets at what would be market value is a completely separate issue.
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Re: False capitalism
Something being "produced more or less constantly" does not imply that that good is infinite or not as scarce. If that were true, then I shouldn't be paying $20 for big bottle of Tide Ultra x2 detergent.
Since you are on the supply-side, you can't "artificially increase demand". You can only change the supply and/or the price. If there were 100 people demanding tickets before you bought 100 tickets, there will still be 100 people demanding tickets after you bought them.
The same goes for any demand for premium seats. If 20 of those 100 people were willing to pay a premium for great seats before tickets went on sale, then, all things being equal, those 20 people will likely pay a scalper for great seats.
I don't see the remaining 80 people changing their mind because cheap seats are unavailable. A few may, but most people have already made up their mind before tickets go on sale as to what lengths they are willing to go for tickets in general and great seats specifically.
Ticket brokering is capitalism. I have a scarce good in a market where demand exceeds supply. I have an excellent opportunity to maximize my rate of return. Sounds like capitalism to me.
The value is added mostly by the buyer (it's called 'demand'). The reseller adds some value in that I don't have to wait in line or I don't have to compete with thousands of people online. The reseller has done that.
The problem of artists not selling tickets at a market clearing price is completely related to scalping. Ticket auctions will not eliminate scalping, but they will greatly reduce it.
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Re: Re: False capitalism
I have had this discussion with friends numerous times regarding concerts in Chicago, St. Louis and Indianapolis. We talk about going, get ready for tickets to go on sale, and then find out that the CHEAP tickets are $95 for nosebleed seats behind a pillar. The GOOD seats, which are quickly sucked up by scalpers, are going for $135 to $175. Of course, you can always get these same seats from scalpers at $250 or more each. Suddenly everyone changes their mind about going.
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Re: False capitalism (#9)
... and this statement comes right after you detail how you add value to the premium seats. Duh!
I find it amusing that you refer to yourself as a "ticket broker" rather than a scalper. You're both doing the same thing, only the scale differs.
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My $.02
2-Sell only at the box office
3-restrict to only 2 tickets per sale.
4-Do not sell early to fans. If tickets go on sale at 12:00 midnight, that is when they go on sale. In conjunction, sell at face value and make it illegal to add "additional fees". Build the fees into the face value of the ticket. Shut down websites that violate this policy and arrest on site scalpers.
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Re: My $.02
Your only valid suggestion is #1 - if the sheep that are willing to pony up the exorbitant upcharges on tickets just didn't do that, the scalpers would begin to disappear. The chances of that happening are about the same as Usama Bin Laden showing up at the White House to surrender.
Box office sales can create traffic and other logistics problems for local law enforcement. Same with selling early. Trying to sell tickets all at once would be a logistical nightmare.
Want a real solution? Eliminate all online and in person sales and use the postal service only. Put all the envelope orders in a drum and draw them like a lottery. That will go a long way to ending the hold scalpers have on ticket sales.
Or, just don't go to concerts!!
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Worthless
Personally when I search for tickets on Craiglist, I flag the scalper's ads ;)
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Well if you buy online
if you use a credit card then they can connect all the tickets purchased with that credit card. Those tickets must all be used within 15 minutes of the first ticket being scanned. Include some allowances for if it for some reason takes longer than 15 minutes for a large family to get through ... maybe rescan the first ticket.
This would dramatically increase the risk of buying a scalped ticket and would therefore drive the price of those scalped tickets down. This decreases the profits of the scalpers. Once people start to get burned by tickets not being valid the market for scalped tickets will dry up.
Other solutions include auction style pricing, not preselling tickets at all (pay at the door), more concerts in a particular city ... come into town and perform every other night for a week
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You all missed the point...
If they want to cause as much pain to the scalpers as possible, either have assigned seating where they check ids, or add a "deposit" which is refunded at the gate the night of the concert. The "deposit" would make it difficult for a scalper to buy out a significant number of seats, and he/she would only buy the number of tickets that he/she could safely sell, as their price had effectively doubled, compared to the fan that actually went to the concert.
I find the "deposit" particularly attractive, because then you know the fan has the cash to buy merchandise.
But, in any case, this would be much better handled by the ticket retailer.
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PUT NAMES ON THE TICKETS.
cant do that?
put the ticket buyer name on the ticket, if your not with the buyer, you dont get in. Its vary easy to pay someone to stand in line, its not so easy to pay someone to go to the show with 3 strangers.
Other simple ways include:
Tickets are issued at the gate to the credit card who bought the ticket.
Tickets are ONLY issued at the gate as you go in. (this would allow the possability of selling no shows)
As you can tell I dont ever pay the Scalping tax, Last time I was in New York I went to a Broadway show and the show used Names, CC numbers and gave me the ticket from the window (about 30 min before the show)
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Re:
Don't sell 1 physical ticket for each seat. If somebody needs 10 tickets, issue only 1 physical ticket stating "Admit 10"
this, to some extent, could discourage those buying tickets with the sole intention of re-selling them...
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The murder rate goes up in the summer...as does the consumption of ice cream. I don't like hearing about all of these murders just so selfish people can indulge in ice cream!
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Re:
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SCALPING TICKETS IS DISHONEST
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Re: SCALPING TICKETS IS DISHONEST
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Why? Should it be illegal to resell other forms of property for more than the original price? I'm not sure I see a meaningful distinction between concert tickets and other property such as land, stocks, art...
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Re:
Certain people want restrictions on the secondary ticket market in order to purchase tickets at prices well below what the market will bear, especially for premium seats. They want $1,000 front row seats for $100 (or less).
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The Obvious Solution
You buy the ticket, you have to go inside.
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Charge at the door
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