Can A Sports Organization Claim Copyright On Stuff You Filmed Yourself?
from the seems-difficult... dept
Earlier this year, we noted that with the rise of the ability to film and broadcast video directly from mobile phones, it was only a matter of time until we ran into some legal battles about fans filming and "broadcasting" a live sporting event. Now, while those who control the venues can certainly put their own restrictions about what you do while on their property, it's going to become increasingly impossible to stop people from filming with their mobile phones. The next question, though, is what happens to that footage?A bunch of folks have sent in a story by Rory Cellan-Jones about how YouTube took down a video he had uploaded of 37 seconds of a football (soccer for us Americans) match in the UK he had attended. As he noted, he knew that the football leagues in the UK were angry over their content being webcast, but he thought it was for taking the official stream and rebroadcasting it online.
This actually raises a lot of questions. I'm not sure of the details on UK copyright law here, so perhaps it's different, but in the US, the copyright on the video would belong to Cellan-Jones, since he took the video. The league would have every right to demand he stop or to remove him from the stadium, but it's not clear if it could stop him from posting it online afterwards -- and it certainly wouldn't be allowed to file a copyright notice demanding it be taken down, as that would be falsely representing themselves as the copyright holder on the content. It doesn't sound like Cellan-Jones is looking to fight this, but this question isn't going to go away, and I'm sure eventually we'll see some lawsuits on this very topic.
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Filed Under: copyright, sporting events, video
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National Basketball Ass'n v. Motorola, Inc. 105 F.3d 841 C.A.2 (N.Y.) 1997
Accordingly, in the US, someone who did their own camera work and direction while recording a sporting would have authorship in his or her recording. And no one else would have any such claim.
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Re: sports copyright
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The exclusion was on his ticket
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Re: The exclusion was on his ticket
You're absolutely right, but what does that have to do with copyright?
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Re: Re: The exclusion was on his ticket
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Re: Re: Re: The exclusion was on his ticket
Not likely, but maybe fraud.
A man who didn't pay a prostitute was found not guilty of rape on similar logic.
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Re: The exclusion was on his ticket
An appropriate penalty might be for the performers to sue the bootleg videographer for an injunction prohibiting publication and asking for monetary damages. Once the injunction is granted, threaten the defendant with contempt if he doesn't take reasonable steps to prevent re-publication. A "reasonable step" would be to take down your own postings of the video and use the DMCA to demand that others who have posted it without your - you being the videographer who made the bootleg video - permission take it down.
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Re: Copyright
> cannot record the game, then the recording
> would violate the agreement and therefore
> the spectator would not be allowed to claim
> copyright of his recording.
No, all that would mean is the League would have an action against the fan for breach of contract and whatever damages the court would assign for that breach.
Such a prohibition on the ticket would have no effect at all on the assignment of the copyright.
The fact that the fan made the recording in violation of his contract with the League in no way nullifies the fact that federal assigns him copyright ownership in the video he made.
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Re: Re: Copyright
Placing terms on a ticket you can't even read until you buy it, is no more effective than an EULA that says you should return software to a store after you opened it.
The store won't take it back and neither will the ticket seller.
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Contracts do not need to be signed
A signature is a strong indicator of an agreement, but even it may not be enforceable if you can convince a judge or jury the signature was under duress. Likewise, if witnesses testify you verbally agreed to a contract, you can be bound to it in most cases.
Many states and countries require certain contracts be in writing, notably, long-term contracts, real-estate contracts, and contracts to transfer "titled" items such as cars.
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Re: Re: Re: Copyright
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Re:
Now I would imagine, as someone else has pointed out, that the license on the back of the ticket further states that any such recording would be the sole property of the team or franchise, just to cover their butts.
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Re: Re:
The copyright wouldn't be valid due to how the work was created.
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"Any unauthorized recording of this event will be considered the property of (insert sports franchise here)"
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Re:
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Re: Law
> will be considered the property of (insert
> sports franchise here)"
My response would be, "You can consider it anything you like. It's not what you consider that matters. It's what the law says that controls."
And courts have been traditionally *extremely* skeptical of boilerplate legal jargon written in tiny print on something like a ticket stub, sandwiched between Taco Bell and Coke ads, and which the average consumer doesn't even know is there.
I read more than a few contract cases in law school that hinged on that kind of language and every time the court found in favor of the consumer, saying the plaintiff had to do more to make the consumer aware of the terms of the agreement than print microscopic disclaimers on things like receipts and sales slips.
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Re: Re: Law
And courts have been traditionally extremely skeptical of boilerplate legal jargon written in tiny print on something like a ticket stub, sandwiched between Taco Bell and Coke ads, and which the average consumer doesn't even know is there.
So Taco Bell and Coke are wasting their ad money?
I used to read the tickets btw.
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Re:
The trick then is to get a long range camera and take footage of the match from a neighbouring building :)
I want to know whether their copyright grab extends to words you write during the match - would they retain copyright to a match report you wrote during the match? Presumably not one you wrote outside the grounds?
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Although in those situations there were two different copyright in play. Copyright of the recording and copyright of the material being performed.
The second doesn't really apply in a sporting event, since it is in essence, an unscripted performance.
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Re:
So no such situation exists at all.
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Re: Re:
It sounds like you told me I'm wrong, then re-iterate my very same point to me.
Is a broadcast the same as a recording? If not, I would think that the recording would be copyright, not the broadcast. Isn't a broadcast just the act of letting someone watch a recording?
If someone creates a tape of the event; why should they not have copyright on that recording under existing copyright laws?
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Re: Re: Re: broadcast etc.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: broadcast etc.
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Copyright and public places
What if the place the pictures or videos were taken was on public property? I do not know about the UK but lets say you took the video at Yankee Stadium which was funded by public funds. I would say the rules of now do not apply. Baseballs belong to MLB even if hit out of the park. At least that is what is on the back of the ticket I last had.
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Re: Copyright and public places
If you are in a public park at a top of a hill overlooking an MLB stadium and video the event, there's not an issue. If you are in Yankee Stadium during an event that you have to pay or have permission to get into, there's a problem.
Even free events can be restricted if the organizers get exclusive use of the venue and conspicuously post signs like "in consideration for being allowed in, you agree to the following ..." and the restrictions are themselves not illegal. Common restrictions I've seen at free events usually deal with limiting outside food, inspecting backpacks, limiting beverage coolers, and no glass bottles.
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Re: Re: Copyright and public places
So before they tore down Shea Stadium, did anyone record games from the subway platform that has a direct line of sight to the infield from past right-center?
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Re: Re: Re: Copyright and public places
Also aren't there a bunch of homes that can see games at Wrigley?
At Shibe Park in the 1930s, people used to charge admission to their porches because people could see games from there and MLB supposedly got ticketd.
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Tickets are not contracts
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In many cases - where they play is not their own property. Cincinnati for example - the stadiums are owned by the county.
But in any event neither the Reds or the Bengals own the stadiums. So any attempt to restrict recording there is basically an organization giving you restrictions on public property.
Perhaps they are in fact tenants; and in normal circumstances the tenant has a good amount of rights over control of the property - but how far does that go when the taxpayers are the actual owners?
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Everyone is overlooking the logos and such on the jerseys
This would constitute the right to request the material be taken down...
If you ever notice in a movie or TV show the actors will be drinking from non existant brand named cans and bottles etc... When you do see a legitimate brand or logo in a movie you can bet that the producer either is being paid to display the log or at least has permission to use the logo in the movie.
If you ever watch a war movie you will notice that rarely if ever will you see a US Soldier in "propper" uniform, there is always something on the uniform that is not correct such as the stripes for rank being upside down or some pin or something that does not belong. This is because the US Military rarely gives permission for their uniforms to be displayed correctly.
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Re: Everyone is overlooking the logos and such on the jerseys
This is incorrect. Trademark law says no such thing. You absolutely can film logos on the jerseys.
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Re: Everyone is overlooking the logos and such on the jerseys
They might be able to sue for misuse of a trademark, however.
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Nobody is mentioning Invasion of Privacy
But, similarly, even when investigative reporters sneak cameras past a "No cameras beyond this point" or when they trespass in a public place, their video remains their property.
I would have a hard time imagining a US court saying that a sporting event with (let's say) 10,000 people or more has a "reasonable expectation of privacy". So in the US, the person would definitely have the right to their video.
In order to stop them, the arena would have to stop them then and there at the moment of recording and then kick them out after catching them. They also would not have the right to take the video or chip of the recorder. That could be a large suit as well.
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Re: Nobody is mentioning Invasion of Privacy
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If I buy a pack of cookies, it doesn't matter if there's a contract in tiny print. If the salesman, handing it to me, says "do you agree with this contract" you *might* have a case that actually reading the contract is not necessary.
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