Judges Divided On Right Of Schools To Punish Students For Mocking Principals Online
from the free-speech-or-reasonable-discipline dept
We've had a number of different stories over the years about students making use of social networks to make fun of or taunt teachers, principals and administrators -- which often ended with schools disciplining those students. However, for years, courts have held that schools have no right to discipline students for speech that occurs off-campus. The Supreme Court muddied the waters on this issue recently in its decision on the "Morse case," better known as the "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" case, where a student was disciplined for unfurling a banner with that phrase on it at a school-sponsored Olympic torch rally. The Supreme Court indicated that the fact that the event was school-sponsored gave the school the right to discipline the students -- but that's opening up plenty of questions in two separate cases in the same circuit where it looks like judges are somewhat split on the issue (via Michael Scott). The key issue, of course, is what constitutes a school-related event. If students are passing out the info on such fake social networking websites to classmates, is it school sponsored? That seems to be the claim some administrators are making, saying that if it influences activities at the school, then the school can discipline the students. With so many different opinions, it seems almost certain that this issue is going to show up a lot more before the courts finally settle the matter.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: free speech, schools, students
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Mocking School Officials After Hours
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Re: Mocking School Officials After Hours
It really comes down to the facts surrounding the incidents.
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Re: Re: Mocking School Officials After Hours
>the official has a right to protect her
>own reputation or that of school employees.
Aren't there proper avenues for handling that? Should the administration of a school be allowed to abuse its power?
What recourse does a non-school administrator have if a school student does something? Or what about if a non-student does something similar to an administrator? what then?
Clearly there are other paths of action that don't blatantly disregard the student's rights and civil liberties. We do have a a system in place. They should try using it.
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Re: Re: Mocking School Officials After Hours
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Re: Re: Mocking School Officials After Hours
That's what libel and slander laws and courts are for. "Protecting your own" is often just an excuse to take the law into your own hands. These school officials should be asked how they would like it if parents did the same whenever they felt an official had wronged their children.
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Re: Mocking School Officials After Hours
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Re: Re: Mocking School Officials After Hours
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Re: Mocking School Officials After Hours
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do school admin's have a hope
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I know I am rambling a bit here, but doesn't it also speak to the character of the principal and teachers that they would be petty and childish enough to care that someone was making fun of them online? Can't they just choose to be the bigger person and ignore it?
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Re: Still
With that said it is the schools job to run students lives when attending school, outside to school and school events thats a different case. I include school events because at things like school dances, field trips, ect. when the school is responsible for the students.
Now making comments about a school official online it should not matter if it was done in the school or at home (other than the website may have been in violation of the schools Authorized User Policy but that is a different issue). Posting something about the principal is okay saying false and/or damaging things could/has led to a law suite.
Getting lawyers involved in things should always be the last resort. In the case of the fake Myspace page the principal should have had a backup as proof that the page existed made the student remove the profile (watch it being removed) then give him one hour of after school detention on a Friday. That would have saved money by preventing going to court.
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Re: Re: Still
No, it shouldn't. It should come before taking the law into your own hands.
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Re:
This actually used to be the case, at least where I grew up. There was a time when we used to stand on the other side of the street in the back of the school and smoke our morning cigarrette in full view of school teachers/admins who really couldn't do a lick about it as we were off campus. We'd put out our butts, walk across the street, say good morning, and go to school.
Then one day one of the H.S. Campus security cop-wannabes drove over to where we were smoking (because he was entirely too fat to actually walk anywhere), announced that we were all in trouble, and stuck us in the back of the car. The dean of students informed us that she had gotten permission from the school board to give us detentions and/or other punishments for smoking IN VIEW of school officials. I politely informed her that the school board could give her permission to do a lot of things outside of their jurisdiction, unfortunately that didn't give her any actual power to do so.
Long story short, the teacher that did US History and ran the Law Team decided to take up our cause, we ended up going to court over it, and the judge sided with us. We kept smoking (actually more so, since we knew it annoyed the school). Unfortunately, the Law Team teacher was let go the next year.
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Re: Re:
Sounds about right, couldn't have students actually learning things, now could we? Most schools are more about indoctrination than education.
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Common for schools to try and trample rights.
Beyond this there are other issues such as schools entering contracts to force one brand of product on students.
I come from a family of teachers and have great respect for dedicated and effective teachers. It is unfortunate that those who cannot teach have a tendency to become coaches and administrators. Many of the problems schools get into are a direct result of incompetent administrators.
One notable case which comes to mind is the University of South Florida where the top dog was dismissed after he suppressed a serial rape case to allow the perpetrator to to continue playing sports. The same idiot also put one of their undergrad students in jail with a bogus trademark claim as a gambit to steal his inventions for a corporate sponsor. This has cost the University of South Florida dearly for over a decade.
Ronald J. Riley,
Speaking only on my own behalf.
President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (810) 597-0194 - (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
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Re: Common for schools to try and trample rights.
President - www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - www.PatentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (810) 597-0194 - (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 8 pm EST.
??
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Re: Re: Common for schools to try and trample rights.
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Correction: Re: Common for schools to try and trample rights.
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And ban those darn cell phones in cars too!
Wouldn't tired students also (e?a?)ffect "activities at the school"
"Go home son - you are suspended for a week. This is the THIRD time I've demanded you get more sleep!"
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Re: And ban those darn cell phones in cars too!
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Re: Re: And ban those darn cell phones in cars too!
I think you gave him teh right answer and then went wrong w/the addtional info. Correct me if I'm wrong:
Effect = noun
Affect = verb
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Re: Re: Re: And ban those darn cell phones in cars too!
effect = noun, verb
affect = noun, verb
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Re: Re: Re: Re: And ban those darn cell phones in cars too!
I want to affect change
v.
I want my change to have an effect
*I think I get how effect can be a verb. How can affect by a noun?
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Get the facts straight
The key issue, of course, is what constitutes a school-related event. If students are passing out the info on such fake social networking websites to classmates, is it school sponsored?
You need to get the facts straight. There could be a big difference between related and sponsored... One implies the school's blessings/backing/views/opinions. Related is much more ambiguous. I think the school related events (study groups, homework sessions, student run myspace/facebook groups etc.) would not hold the school liable for the actions the school related events take.
A school sponsored event could likely hold the school directly liable for views,expresions and actions contained within them.
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Fortunately....
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Take the gloves off
In other words, let the teachers/principals/whoever fight back online. Example scenario:
Jimmy (student) on Facebook says: Mr Pasquerella is fugly as hell, and he has really bad BO.
Mr. Pasquerella (teacher) on FB: Well, that's really cute Jimmy, but the fact is that your Momma never complains about my dashing looks OR my BO. She did, however, tell me that she wishes she aborted her waste-of-flesh kid--who couldn't get a D in social studies if his life depended on it--when she had the chance.
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School censorship
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This speaks volumes of the
Face it these are kids that, for better or worse are going to make mistakes and who's perceptions are maybe a bit skewed do to age and lack of seasoning. This is part of growing up and in some instances a "child" will mis-speak and/or not agree with the administrators.
Seriously, everytime I see something like this I thank god I don't live in a school district where my child could have been a victim of an over zealous educator with a thin skin that cant take a bit of criticism from a child. this approach to what may, or may not be right, lends to the litigious nature of our current society. Teachers teaching that if you dont like what was said then you should sue.
If a teacher or administrator had an issue with me as child/student then my parents were brought into the picture not a judge and lawyer
It's time that the educators acted their age and and lead by example not by intimidation and litigation
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Mocking School Officials After Hours
i let my kids have freedom of speech i don't care what the language i as long as its not used in school or around school mates who have a big mouth i perosonaly dont care what launguge my kids speak
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