LSU Starts Fining Students For File Sharing; But Seems Quite Confused About It
from the you-said-what-now? dept
P2P Blog points us to the news that Louisiana State University (LSU) is starting a program whereby it will fine students $50 for unauthorized file sharing. However, the quotes from the university representative seem quite confusing and oftentimes flat out incorrect. The reporter who wrote the article seems equally confused. Nowhere is it explained exactly how it will be determined that someone is actually sharing an unauthorized piece of work, or if there is any sort of actual due process involved at all. Instead, the school seems to think that any accusation means guilt automatically. They also claim, oddly, that the fines are "in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act." Please, someone, point out to me where it says in the DMCA that your ISP can fine you based on what it thinks you may have done wrong?The LSU spokesperson, oddly claims that the RIAA's "subpoena" costs $4,000, but that's not true. What she means (I think) is that the RIAA often offers up a "we won't sue you settlement at $4,000. That has nothing to do with the subpoena at all. Even more confusing, she claims that the settlement offer is for the RIAA's "time":
"Once they get a subpoena, they say 'OK, person X, you've done this, now that's $4,000 for our time.' And you have 28 days or something ridiculous to pay it. If you don't pay it, the fine goes up from there."That's simply not true. First of all, the $4,000 is just a settlement offer. It's not for their time, and it's not a fine. The way she says it "goes up from there" makes it sound as if it's a court granted fine that just keeps going up until you settle. That's not true. Until a court says you need to pay, you don't need to pay. It is an option to get the RIAA to leave you alone, but the RIAA doesn't get to just fine you. But, the LSU folks don't seem to get that. The author of the article doesn't seem to get it either, at one point discussing how the RIAA "has the legal authority to take offenders to court" -- um... anyone has the legal authority to take others to court in civil cases -- and then confuses the civil infringement claims with criminal infringement, suggesting (incorrectly) that if the RIAA takes you to court, you could get "five years in prison." You can only get jailtime in a criminal lawsuit, and, no, thankfully (not yet) the RIAA does not have the legal authority to charge you in criminal court.
The folks at LSU also seem quite confused about technology:
"When you transfer files, they're called packets, and these packets can be identified as to what they are. Usually it's through things like BitTorrent, or through LimeWire, or any other things that are shareware, where people put up stuff illegally or make it available illegally."Oh, and on top of that, apparently some universities have magically figured out how to stop file sharing. Wish I knew how:
"But there are places that have actually shut off the ability to do any sharing of files because they were getting so many complaints from the RIAA."And these are the folks who want to start fining people $50 for file sharing, when they don't even seem to understand the law or the technology involved? That's going to go over well...
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Filed Under: copyright, dmca, file sharing, fines, lsu
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"due process"
nothing requires AT&T, Comcast, or Verizon to give you due process. if they really wanted, they could fine you $10,000 for every violation notice they received identifying you as long as you agreed in the ToS. of course, even if private ISPs were only charging $50, you know it'd end up on the radar of some politician.
as for the rest of your analysis, it's generally correct. the big filtering software is Audible Magic's Copysense, and it simply doesn't work.
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Re: "due process"
"nothing requires AT&T, Comcast, or Verizon to give you due process." Did you think before you spewed that? So they are above the law then? AC, do you work for the RIAA, Comcast, Verizon, etc?
"they could fine you $10,000 for every violation notice" Again did you think? If Verizon gets 10 notices claiming I was sharing from the RIAA, by your logic, I could then be fined 100 k? They can just make up arbitrary numbers? In what universe?
"as for the rest of your analysis," Like you possess the skills to critique TechDirt's articles.
AC, I am fining you 10k for a stupid comment, another 10k for a stupid username, and another 10k for S&G.
Where's my money?
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Re: Re: "due process"
What you missed is the OP said: "as long as you agreed in the ToS [Terms of Service]." A ToS is a binding legal contract. You can say anything you want in a contract (that isn't illegal), and if the other party agrees to it, they are bound by it.
If you agree to pay $10,000 for every violation notice they receive in your ToS, then yes, you have to pay it. That's why you read the fine print.
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Re: Re: Re: "due process"
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Re: Re: Re: "due process"
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Hey you...
I'll just use someone else's credentials and what are you going to do, except look at each other with a stupid expression.
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Re: Hey you...
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So if you're reading this and you're an attorney who DOES know, please please please please please go slap your colleagues (all of them) upside the head, and get involved.
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New Rule
Because when I hear things like ""But there are places that have actually shut off the ability to do any sharing of files because they were getting so many complaints from the RIAA."" I immediately start slapping my forehead and nashing my teeth, while in my mind the sound of pandemonium and 300 monkeys shitting themselves play on loop until I go pound another double-cup of coffee.
If others have shut off filesharing (which I can gurantee you they haven't), then FUCKING DO THAT AND LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE!!!! That way the REAL illegal filesharers can just go further underground and continue sharing while you pat yourselves on the back and the RIAA figures out ANOTHER way and reason to fine you.
Idiots.
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And we allow these idiots to teach our children?
That's the real tragedy here. We prop up things like college degrees and professors in our society as if they're the most important thing in the world. That is until you realize that most are morons such as is exampled here.
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Tee-hee...
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Their CS department must be horrified.
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Re: Their CS department must be horrified.
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Supply and Demand
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Re: Supply and Demand
It's LOSING, not LOOSING. Based on the rest of your grammar I'm sure that was just a typo, but it's a pet peeve of mine so I couldn't let it go.
/soap box
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Love your posts. The monkeys were a nice, evocative mental image.
Gnash your teeth, though, please (after your coffee, of course, which should also make your guarantee better). The thought of you making dentition into a small defunct automobile is weirdly disturbing.
===
@ AC, above:
Allow? It's a state school - Louisanians pay taxes so they can be idiots. Although, in all fairness to the actual teaching faculty at LSU, these are probably non-academic administrative idiots with fancy advanced idiot degrees from some mail-order school in the Seychelles. $700 and you, too, can be Master (or even doctor) of all you survey...
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Re:
It is a university, I'm sure they have editors, I know middle school students that could have put a better article than that together.
Not to mention the fact the writer, being in a university, SHOULD be surrounded by knowledgeable people that can easily verify and explain the technical and legal aspects of an issue.
That schoo shoud be EMBARRASSED!
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Oh, and the article is absurd, bla, bla.
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Computer Science department vs bean-counting IT department
Oh, and the 4K settlement agreement is pretty much a flat charge because most students don't have the resources to fight it. Who says the RIAA doesn't have a great business model?
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Re: Computer Science department vs bean-counting IT department
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This isn't to say that I agree with it, but it sounds to me like LSU's plan is similar to MTU's, only LSU's policy isn't nearly as clear.
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What a joke.
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Proof of Sharing?
"Thompson said the RIAA monitors ports to see if they have left any music files that belong to the RIAA open to the public."
I hope some student spoof's his IP to match a printer causing $4000 in fines assessed to some HPLaserJet. It's Not like they (RIAA) havn't done it in the past
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-Yet another WTF!!1
Ten years into this shit, it's not even funny anymore.
(And no; I won't just wave it off as "Stupid Americans" either... it's the same story worldwide.)
Tell those morons at LSU that they're beeing ridiculed from as far away as Sweden. (at the wery least)
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-Yet another WTF!!1
Ten years into this shit, it's not even funny anymore.
(And no; I won't just wave it off as "Stupid Americans" either... it's the same story worldwide.)
Tell those morons at LSU that they're beeing ridiculed from as far away as Sweden. (at the wery least)
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Epic News Source
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It is possible...
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BTW, I knew you'd like the name ;)
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packets and shareware? Really???
How does that chick even have an IT job, much less an IT job that comes with a title? Guess I need to send my resume in to LSU's IT department.
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$50 fine intended to recoup DMCA costs
"As of August 1, 2009, students implicated in a DMCA copyright violation (and upon verification) will be assessed a $50 fine, charged to the student’s Bursar account. This fine is not intended to generate profit; rather, it provides a mechanism for recovering costs incurred in reviewing and processing DMCA notifications, and funding programs for awareness (e.g., education and ad campaign costs). LSU is not the first institution to charge a fee for copyright violations – several other institutions also charge fees for DMCA violations."
http://uiswcmsweb.prod.lsu.edu/ITS/ITS_Security/IT_Policies/Federal/DMCA/item611.htm l
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Terminology
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Well
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A few comments
2. IANAL
3. You CANNOT stop illegal file sharing without breaking your network. My school slows down torrent file downloads. Solution: download 'em over HTTPS or as text files. My school has everyone behind a firewall, but everyone has a static non-NATed IP address so I've gotten some crazy fast downloads on...wait for it...the 96 KHz versions of Nine Inch Nails' Ghosts album set. Yep, BitTorrent can be legal, folks.
4. Only dumb kids who should be buying music from iTunes get caught on the whole illegal file sharing thing anyway. Private torrent trackers are rather heavily vetted so you pretty much don't get any *AA moles in there.
5. Who downloads music anymore, if you indeed have a cushy campus connection to ride on? I only download MP3s (Napster subscription, with BitTorrent as my backup in case the one-time song download fails, which has happened several times over the past week) if I'm going to be out of internet range or if my internet connection is dog slow. At a university, neither is the case...
6. In terms of "education", universities should simply make students aware of the legal options available that are quite cheap, especially compared with dealing with the *AAs. Lala.com has streamable songs for ten cents apiece (less for albums) and Napster has unlimited streaming and five downloads for $5 per month. Granted, neither service gives you unlimited iPod-able music, but hopefully the new KaZaA service, at $20 per month, will do that.
7. Either the school newspaper or the IT department don't know what they're talking about. Could very well be either, but if it's the newspaper I'd like to take the reporter and slap them around because they're doing discredit to decent on-cmapus news sources. My school's paper being one of them (I write most of the tech stuff in it...I'll avoid the shameless plug and make you dig through a few layers of links to find out which paper this is because our website needs a little help).
Guess that's about it. Personally, IF I did do an illegal download and IF that download could've been gotten DRM-free online for a cheap amount, I'm perfectly fine with paying a $50 "You idiot" fee. But I'll bet the false positives in the system will ruin it, and the writers of the article had everything screwed up.
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wow...
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Trippin'
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Re:
Lemme guess... you attend/work at LSU? How about rather than yelling at us for discussing what was published in a newspaper, you add to it and correct what was wrong? Otherwise, we can only assume that the original report was accurate, and you're just upset about how that makes LSU appear.
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that's LSU
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