CwF + RtB = Techdirt
from the a-little-experiment dept
Connect with Fans (CwF) + Reason to Buy (RtB) = The Business Model
But, it actually goes beyond just the music industry. In fact, I'd argue that these models apply to many different industries, including the media business. After doing all those presentations, some of us here at Floor64/Techdirt got to talking about ways that they could be applied to other industries -- and one thing led to another where we began to wonder why we didn't test them out ourselves. So, we looked at the various models and thought about what could we do along those lines. I certainly love the "tiered" models, where there are numerous options of increasing value that people can buy into, and we figured, why not test that out ourselves? It would be a fun experiment and a great learning experience. So... here we are introducing:
Techdirt's CwF + RtB
Beyond that, however, is where we really started to explore the possibilities. We realized we also wanted to use it to help promote others who understood this vision (it's not just about us, of course). So we put together two great offerings that I'm incredibly excited about. The first is our Techdirt Music Club offering, that doesn't just promote four musicians (Jill Sobule, Amanda Palmer, Moto Boy and Joe Pug) -- all of whom we've discussed at times for the cool things they do with new business models -- but also offers you something unique that you can't get anywhere else. All four (and their management) have been a tremendous joy to work with through this process. It's great brainstorming with creative, positive people.
Next is the Techdirt Book Club, which is a fantastic collection of must read books from a bunch of authors whose thinking on this is far beyond what else you might find out there. Even better? All of the authors involved -- William Patry, James Boyle, David Levine, Michele Boldrin and Michael Heller -- are so enthusiastic about this experiment that they've agreed to provide signed copies of the books in question. It's the ultimate signed book collection -- and, as a bonus we throw in additional features for Techdirt and the book that we put together from my writings -- which I'll sign as well.
From there we've also got a chance to hang out -- and spend the day with us and some friends. See the magic that is writing a Techdirt post and (much more exciting) have some entertaining discussions myself and with much more interesting folks like Mark Fletcher, Andy Kessler, Rich Skrenta and Eric Goldman. We'll have some meals, we'll hang out at the office, and we'll go out and have some fun as well. Should be a blast.
Above that level, we have a whole series of options that are more for the corporate level -- though, if you're feeling flush, individuals are more than welcome to take part, utilizing the business side of what we do here at Floor64/Techdirt. You've got a variety of different options that include some opportunities to use the Insight Community to get some smart analysis on your business model. Or you can help pick a theme for a week on Techdirt, complete with an Insight Community case and additional posts. There are also offerings where I'll speak at your company or event... all the way up to a full on Techdirt Greenhouse production for your company, both of which include cases with the Insight Community. And, if you really want to dig in, and get every single thing that we have offered... that's available as well.
And, of course, these offerings are targeted at the folks who like what we do, enjoy it and would like to interact with us some more... but we like to offer up things for everyone, including those who aren't huge fans, and would rather we shut up and go away. We've even got a package for you! Though, I warn you, it's a bit pricey. We may be offering something for you, but we never said we'd make it easy for you.
Anyway, we hope you have some fun checking these out -- and find something worthwhile to you. We enjoyed getting the whole thing together, and we're curious to see what we learn from this experiment. Special thanks to the team at Floor64 for putting in some crazy hours before this launch, and to everyone else (authors and their publishers, musicians and their managers, entrepreneurs, etc.) who agreed to take part in this experiment.
Techdirt's CwF + RtB
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
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T-Shirts !!!!!
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Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
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Re: Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
www.cafepress.com
Or one of the other dozens of screen printing shops.
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Re: Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
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Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
You're gonna buy one, right, AD? We made it especially for you. :)
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Re: Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
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Re: Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
"Introduce #6 in your programs, but number 1 in your hearts: Dark Helmet!!!" (and picture me doing that thing where you cup your hands over your mouth and breathe really hard to make the crowd sound, then I take a victory lap around my office, admired by all my confused coworkers)
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Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
Preferably a nice neutral color!!
And a tasteful embroidered logo!
In a men's medium.
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Re: Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
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Re: Re: Re: T-Shirts !!!!!
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$100MM....
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Re: $100MM....
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Nice
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Re: Nice
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Re: Re: Nice
I seriously need your address, so I can send you a limited edition coffee mug...
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Cool experiment
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Re: Cool experiment
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Re:
And I imagine their army of shills will all buy "Techdirt Insider" memberships to ensure they get priority access. Great, just great.
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Actually, if you had bothered to read the description, you should have noticed that Insider members will get priority, not "the same", access as others. Considering that you, yourself, appear to be such a member, I'm surprised that you didn't know that. Or did you?
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
Everyone gets the same opportunity. There is no change. Stories still get published at the same time they would have otherwise. If you want, you can pay to get access a little earlier, but that's not discriminatory -- everyone has the same access to that.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Maybe I misunderstood something then. I was under the impression that some stories would be published to paid subscribers before they were published to the general public. I'm trying to see how I was wrong about that. I keep re-reading the description but that's still the way it looks to me. Help me out on understanding how that isn't the way it is because I seem to be confused if that isn't the case.
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You're paying premium to see the content that's put on hold.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No, I don't think I'm missing that at all. They're just being published twice: First to paid subscribers. Then, later, to everyone else. Or so I thought.
You're paying premium to see the content that's put on hold.
Yes, that's what I thought too.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You, or any anti-Techdirt commenter, has equal ability to pay the annual donation required to get that early access. It's not just reserved for "dittoheads" or people on board with Techdirt editorial.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Again, who said otherwise? Enough with the strawmen already.
And if you think I'm "anti-Techdirt", then that's just something else you're totally wrong about.
By the way, I like the way you term the payment a "donation". I heard that Walmart will give you a bag full of $100 worth of stuff for a $100 donation at the checkout register. Amazing, this "donation" stuff, isn't it?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
When someone writes:
"You, or any anti-Techdirt commenter..."
Do you think means I have said that you are anti-Techdirt? Could it not also mean you are pro-Techdirt. Actually it could mean either. How would I know whether you're anti-Techdirt or not? You're posting as AC.
Dude, Walmart is a retailer of goods. Techdirt is a blog of ideas, where the main product is free. If you now equate Techdirt to Walmart because Techdirt offers a grab bag with your contribution, you're not making the best analogies.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
blah blah blah
OK, if you want to get pedantic, then talk about poor reading comprehension: Do you not have any idea what the word "if" means, as in the statement "if you think I'm "anti-Techdirt"? Here's a link for you since it seems you were unable to look it by yourself. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/if
Dude, Walmart is a retailer of goods. Techdirt is a blog of ideas, where the main product is free.
Is that a direct quote from Captain Obvious?
If you now equate Techdirt to Walmart...
Except I didn't. Oops, looks like another of your strawmen fell.
...you're not making the best analogies.
From someone for whom the word "if" is apparently too difficult to comprehend, I'm not surprised that the point went right over your head.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yep, from Cpt. Obvious, to Cpt. Oblivious with best wishes.
Sometimes, you chaps on the short bus need a little help understanding. I can see that in this case, my efforts have fallen short. Good luck on the GED.
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Re:
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With $100 million he could retire in indifference, or retire and make a difference.
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Big Change
Good, because I like the way that everyone, even anonymous users, get access to and can comment on Techdirt posts at the same time. For free.
Then there are all sorts of relatively inexpensive extras you can buy, granting you some extra abilities, like the chance to see some Techdirt posts before everyone else...
Err, now wait a minute. That's not what you just got through saying. What you're describing is actually taking away something (equal access) that used to be free and changing to charging for it. Spin it as you will, but that's what really going on.
This might be a blessing in disguise for me, though. I probably spend too much time here anyway providing my own "insights and analysis" (for free!) and this change will certainly discourage that.
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Re: Big Change
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Re: Re: Big Change
Until now, it has been equal access. I fail to see how it is still equal. Perhaps you can explain how it is?
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Re: Re: Re: Big Change
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Change
Otherwise known as Reason to Buy (RtB)?
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Re: Re: Re: Big Change
I'm not going to be a paying member (sorry Mike), but that doesn't mean that I won't still have access to all the same stuff as before; it just means that I won't have access to stuff that WASN'T ACCESSIBLE BEFORE.
Again with thinking before you spew...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Change
Nobody said that, why are you making up a straw man like that?
Again with thinking before you spew...
Indeed. Perhaps you should actually read the comment you are "spewing" in reply to before doing so.
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Re: Re: Re: Big Change
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Re: Big Change
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Re: Re: Big Change
No? Explain please.
You will still get the content- it's just that somethings you will get later than those that pay to be first.
Which is not equal. Now Mike is free to do if he so wishes, it's his blog after all. And it may (or may not) be a great business decision. I really don't know. It's certainly a model that's been discussed by some newspapers whereby subscribers get first access to stories and everybody else gets "free" access some time later. But it isn't equal. And that's OK because Mike doesn't have any kind of obligation to provide access, equal or otherwise, at all!
So what do you see that's so wrong with unequal access that that you feel compelled to deny it? It's really not "wrong" at all. It's just business. Embrace it.
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Re: Re: Re: Big Change
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Change
True enough.
Preposterous!
Umm, what's preposterous about it?
I demand that people who don't buy t-shirts, mugs, and autographed songs receive them regardless?
Well, I guess you can make all the idiotic demands you want. That doesn't mean they'll be met though.
Mike is getting money for this, why am I not?
Maybe because you don't own or run Techdirt?
I demand an equal share to Mike from the money made from these sales!
There you go with your idiotic demands again.
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If you believe the content itself isn't at the center of what makes money, shouldn't you be offering the songs on the Music Club playlist for free download, not "protected" by a Flash player? For that matter, shouldn't you make all the music and all the books freely downloadable? That *is* the model you've been touting.
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Re:
Wrong. The content IS at the center of it all. That has been the whole point, all along, always. The content IS where most VALUE is, but as an infinite good, the price should tend towards zero, thus, businesses must find other scarce goods (around the content) to sell.
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Re: Re:
Mike's selling the scarce goods, which I get. It's not giving away digital versions that I felt was out of line with what he praised elsewhere.
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Thanks! Appreciate the kind words.
shouldn't you be offering the songs on the Music Club playlist for free download, not "protected" by a Flash player? For that matter, shouldn't you make all the music and all the books freely downloadable?
In many cases, those works are very much available for download at the artists/authors' own sites, but the idea was that it's up to them on how they want to handle that. But the key here was the specialness of the offer at hand, including the signed books, or the signatures and extras from the musicians. The idea behind the music player was just to let you hear these artists.
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Re: Re:
I'm off to roam the internet. I'll be back with my PayPal account once I've (not) found what I need.
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Yeah, good point. I'll see what we can do!
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Ha! Knew that was coming...
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[/joke] (just in case it wasn't obvious enough)
Because 1) this is not a paywall, subscribers merely get access to the stuff that hasn't been posted yet, which I'm sure will also be content that's still a bit in flux.
and 2) pah, stealing and suing, el oh el!
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Oh well, I'll probably drop a donation over at the end of the month, just a shame I can't get the shirt :(
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Re:
Yeah, tragically, we discovered that it's not as simple as you might think. We *are* looking into options on that, and *hope* to be able to do something eventually. But working out all the details was holding back being able to launch this. If there's really a lot of demand for it, we'll try to figure something out...
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Re: Re:
I'm sure it's not as simple as it sounds, though I wish it were. As I've mentioned in previous posts, international regulations are the bane of my life, and often stop me spending actual cash on good I want.
Either way, keep up the good work.
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Sweet, Nice, but...
Come on Mike - micro payments and all that ...
(And yes, we could use the company card, for various reasons we may not want to do that)
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Re: Sweet, Nice, but...
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Also, the shirts are quality jobs? Not some cafepress crap, right?
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Re:
Right now, this is the t-shirt we're offering. We may do other shirts in the future...
Also, the shirts are quality jobs? Not some cafepress crap, right?
Yes, it's high quality, American Apparel. We wanted to make sure you got value for your money.
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A real question
The question stems from my own reaction to the packages. I probably won't buy the Music Club because the collection doesn't seem like my style. If I could listen to it all easily though, I might change my mind. Similarly, the Book Club interested me, but I don't know that I want to donate $150 based on book descriptions alone.
Having watched multiple presentations you've made via YouTube, this seems incongruent with everything you've touted Trent Reznor (and others) doing. I'm genuinely curious why you didn't follow the model that you've spoken so much about.
Is it just you've done "CwF + RtB" without giving anything away, so therefore you don't have to give anything away? Was it a question of server load for distributing more than some HTML? Were all the artists and authors involved not willing to buy into your "free" model? I don't need names or anything. I just want to understand the business decisions better.
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Re: A real question
You're missing the point, a little. Mike IS giving away "the content". In the case of Techdirt, "the content" is this blog, NOT the giveaways including books, shirts, music, etc. Those are rewards and "Thanks" for people who contribute.
Think of PBS television during a funding drive. They give prizes for contributors. But you don't think PBS' "content" is a handy re-usable shopping bag, do you?
"I probably won't BUY the Music Club ...Similarly, the Book Club interested me, but I don't know that I want to donate $150 based on book descriptions alone." You see, here you're looking at the music as a product package you would BUY from Techdirt for $150. But Techdirt is not a retailer of these goods. The right perspective is that you are supporting Techdirt with a $150 contribution, and Techdirt is thanking you with a package of gifts from some sponsors.
Techdirt's product is NOT these books and music. It is the free content on this site. The books and music are just a "reason to buy"...something tangible to offer you in return for your contribution to the content.
The above is one complete explanation, but please allow me to put in another:
The plan is 100% congruent with Reznor's models, and the models Mike has touted in his presentations. You'll note that he is not specifically offering digital, infinitely reproducible goods as the rewards when he includes music or books. He is offering goods that cannot be reproduced (scarce goods): The music, and books are signed by the authors. You can't get autographed copies on Bittorrent.
And what's more, signed works are a personal touch that helps Techdirt CwF, and fans CwTechdirt.
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Re: Re: A real question
You make excellent points, and your perspective is definitely a unified one. Phrased that way, it makes complete sense.
The problem (? That's not really the right word.) lies in most people not seeing it like that. The "gifts" are supposed to incentivize someone to contribute more (either here or on PBS). If you negate their value, then there isn't any point in having them in the first place. Just make a blank box for people to fill in whatever amount they want to give.
You're right that I was assigning the content of the gifts' to Techdirt, which it truly isn't. However, I doubt many people would (could?) separate the tote bag from PBS, even though the TV is the core product. That's a tough distinction for most people to make, and thus it becomes fair question for this model/example. Most people just want to know "what am I getting for my money?"
It will be interesting to see if enough of this type of business model is practiced, how (if?) common mentality will switch along with it. It will have to for this to be sustainable on a wide scale.
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âś”
The CwF + RtB model certainly applies to this loyal reader. Techdirt was the blog to get me into blogs.
After reading so many free posts I recently started searching out more material from you guys, but found nothing on Amazon. (Ok, it wasn't exactly an exhaustive search.)
Were I not in the far off, remote country of Canada I'd take the $150 option in a heartbeat... Alas. All the best to you in this experiment. (I've taken the Crystal Ball option, the only available to this land.)
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Hmmmm
The book club offering seems to me right on target as well as the rest of the offerings.
Too bad you don't ship internationally.
Anyway, good work.
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Question regarding crystal ball option:
I found the crystal ball feature to be quite annoying, truthfully, and sure wouldn't want this turned on without the option of removing it.
For I see no option of a "gratitude, t-shirt, and logo" to purchase.
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Re: Question regarding crystal ball option:
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Re: Re: Question regarding crystal ball option:
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Re: Re: Re: Question regarding crystal ball option:
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I want a Hoodie
No book.
No crystal ball.
No badge.
Just a nice plan black hoodie with a nice logo.
But I'm not willing to pay $65 for it.
When you get everything all organized and figured out, please set up the store where i can buy the t-shirts, polo shirts, hoodies, coffee mugs, mouse pads, thumb drives, stuffed animals, bumper stickers, underwear, mice, pens, shot glasses, etc... Ă la carte style and not bundled.
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Re: I want a Hoodie
I dunno about Techdirt underwear, tho... :P shot glasses? maybe. :)
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Re:
For a print version, do the above, paste into your word processor, print, and add your own staple. Voila!
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Re:
The idea that musicians can make some money from selling t-shirts when their music is free.
The detractors like to build a strawman argument that "Mike says piracy is OK, and musicians just need to sell t-shirts? They're going to need to sell loooooooootssss of t-shirts."
But that argument is asinine, since nobody anywhere has ever said that musicians will all survive by sellign t-shirts. Our side does say that t-shirt sales are an example of a way musicians can sell scarce goods when infinintely reproducible goods return no revenue. But it is just one idea. Many other scarce goods can be bundled with the music, such as access, live performances, autographs, art, etc. Focusing just on t-shirts is either:
- a disingenuous strawman, or
- shows a tragic lack of imagination.
And despite the repeated cases of musicians finding other ways of generating revenue besides the historic CD sales, goofballs have been showing up here for years saying "Making up for CD sales with other revenue? They'd better sell looooootssss of t-shirts".
On the upside, that argument angle has been pretty much torn to pieces by now...even though some dinosaurs don't seem to realize it.
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Great Experiment
You might need to be careful with the no techdirt for a year option. You may have just given a reason for the collection societies to spend the money they have been holding for all these years ;)
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I can see into the future
One thing that would REALLY be cool is a crystal ball RSS feed (if there is one, I'm oblivious).
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Re: I can see into the future
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How often will we get updates about sales?
Will Techdirt provide an on-going tally of its sales from this project? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? It will be really helpful to see how financially successful it is.
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Re: How often will we get updates about sales?
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Re: How often will we get updates about sales?
Yup, we'll provide data... we just hadn't figured that part out yet. Will get around to it soon, though... Definitely want to share what we learn with folks.
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Re: Re: How often will we get updates about sales?
Very open of you to do so, but as an academic discussion:
Is that really a necessary part of the equation? I don't think so. That data is your business' operational data, is useful, valuable, and the private information of a private company.
Now, I see that sharing it takes Techdirt even farther into CwF, but I don't think the readers or contributors have a 'right' to that info. Perhaps Techdirt should share the data, because it is very on topic for the issues discussed here, but:
Do you think some other blog that put forth a similar business model has any obligation to share revenue data under the plan?
Derek.
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Re: Re: Re: How often will we get updates about sales?
Is that really a necessary part of the equation? I don't think so. That data is your business' operational data, is useful, valuable, and the private information of a private company.
I agree. I don't think it's at all necessary, but I think being transparent in some ways is a good thing. But certainly not necessary, and with the experiments we've seen there's definitely been a varying level of transparency.
Do you think some other blog that put forth a similar business model has any obligation to share revenue data under the plan?
Nope. Don't think anyone has any obligation to share the info (us included). But, since this is very much an exercise that we want to learn from, we're hoping to help others learn from it as well.
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Just like PBS
Could we get a real-time online tally of sales as they come in to add to the atmosphere? And maybe some phones ringing in the background, some local celebrities, and a catering service?
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Attempting to rewrite the rules might not work as you wish.
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Re:
Attempting to rewrite the rules might not work as you wish.
Woo hoo! An apparently serious Masnick's Law supporter! I didn't think it was possible since the law is actually mentioned (though not by name) IN THIS BLOG POST, but I probably should not have been surprised.
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Re:
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i want a shirt though u really gonna sell them soon? ima nag u on twitter everyday till they are for sale! lol
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Re:
I was just wondering the same thing. Now that Techdirt is going to be essentially placing some of its content behind a paywall, I wonder if their stance is going to change on that?
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Re: Re: Re:
I don't either and no one said they did, so where did you get that idea? Strawman much?
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Re:
No, why would we do something like that?!?
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Re: Re:
Cool.
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UK T Shirts
Anyway, i would like a T shirt (plus T Insider ticket etc etc), anyone suggest how i go about it? Anyone willing handle the transaction will get a 10% mark up on their costs (proof req'd).
By the way, is Carlo not UK based? All his stuff seems to come from UK-related stories.
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Re: UK T Shirts
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Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Umm, must...resist...cheap...shot...
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Icon Logo Crack?
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Patent?
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Patent?
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Hey...
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Re: Hey...
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Re: Hey...
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Thsi is what I want
I am Anonymous Coward
On Tech Dirt
I give this idea to Tech Dirt and the Tech Dirt Community.
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Thsi is what I want
I am Anonymous Coward
On Tech Dirt
I give this idea to Tech Dirt and the Tech Dirt Community.
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Re: Thsi is what I want
I am angry dude
On Tech Dirt
There ... fixed that for you!
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Re: Re: Thsi is what I want
Should capitalize the "am," though:
I Am angry dude On TechDirt.
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International shipping
P.S. On the CwF+RtB front, have you ever spoken with Howard Tayler over at Schlock Mercenary (www.schlockmercenary.com)? Obviously, quite a few web comic artists have been doing the whole "give the content away and then sell books to people that liked it" gig, but Tayler does a great job of connecting with people through Blogunder Schlock and the production standards on his books are quite amazing.
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Woo!
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Breakdown
Can we pay you to 'ban' a certain topic? Maybe 20 million to not mention recording industries?
Just kidding, I think the whole thing's hilariously witty.
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Levels
Have you considered offering different subscription levels? Like maybe, $15 gets you the basic level with the "Insider" moniker beside your name and x hours early access. Then, $50 gets you a silver star beside your name and twice the early access. Then $100 gets you a gold star and 4x early access, or something like that.
Another thing you could do is auction off default placement in the comments section. Of course, you would need to have buttons to let readers resort the comments in actual chronological or thread order if they want to. I'm just talking about the initial, default sort order shown before they select a different order. I bet there are plenty of people who would pay to have their comments initially shown first. Call them "sponsored comments", kind of like how Google does "sponsored links". It might work! Capitalism, I love it!
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Re: Levels
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Re: Re: Levels
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Where's the CwDH?
Fine, I've reviewed my options and you've given me a reason to buy, but where the hell is my Connect with Dark Helmet? Hundreds of comments including direct questions and you, Lord Masnick have only responded once! Where's my damn connection?
Now granted, I'm a complete ass, we all know that. And usually I'm either commenting with something I think is funny or to refute what I deem to be faulty logic -- But STILL! I'm a fan dammit, and I want my connection.
Incidentally, I've actually had more connections with Odd Hairball and some Angry Dude, which I wear as a badge of honor.
Okay, I'm done whining. Off to find more faulty logic...
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Sorry, but this is a pathetic attempt to bootstrap an idea by asking koolaid drinkers to support it. Slurp slurp, spend spend. Just remember after the brain wash to enjoy the spin cycle!
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Re:
Does it bother you that people will voluntarily give revenue to Techdirt, while refusing to pay some industries? This despite that other industry's attempts to "bootstrap an idea" with false education campaigns and massive lobbying?
Does it bother you that CwF might be a good idea after all?
You drink YOUR Kool Aid, I'll try to think for myself.
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hrm?
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Equality
Now: Stories are placed on a queue and then revealed after 15 minutes.
It's the same, please stop whining.
The only difference is that if you pay a little $$, you can see the queue. If you don't want to pay, you get the same things you always have. Hence, not taking away anything.
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100 million for one year?
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Levels
Have you considered offering different subscription levels? Like maybe, $15 gets you the basic level with the "Insider" moniker beside your name and x hours early access. Then, $50 gets you a silver star beside your name and twice the early access. Then $100 gets you a gold star and 4x early access, or something like that.
Another thing you could do is auction off default placement in the comments section. Of course, you would need to have buttons to let readers resort the comments in actual chronological or thread order if they want to. I'm just talking about the initial, default sort order shown before they select a different order. I bet there are plenty of people who would pay to have their comments initially shown first. Call them "sponsored comments", kind of like how Google does "sponsored links". It might work! Capitalism, I love it!
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I hate you Mike Masnik!
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A Rose
Paywalls come in different flavors. Some in the newspaper industry have talked about paywalls where certain content is reserved for "subscribers only" for an initial time. The time mentioned is often "the first 24 hours" or so, after which it becomes available for free to non-subscribers as well. The idea is that some people will buy subscriptions to be able to read stories earlier. Then, sometimes, after some time of free availability the content may be moved back behind the paywall into some kind of archive.
But to most people this is still a paywall. Just because the content is restricted to "subscribers only" for an hour or a day or a week or whatever, does not really change that. And that's OK if that's what they want to do. I'm not saying whether they should or shouldn't use paywalls or anything like that. I'm just calling a paywall a paywall (whether the deniers like it or not). The irony here though is that Techdirt, having preached against such paywalls, goes and sets one up itself! Ha! And "but it's not a paywall if *Techdirt* does it" just doesn't fly in my estimation.
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Re: A Rose
It's not a paywall. A paywall means you cannot access the content at all unless you pay.
Paywalls come in different flavors. Some in the newspaper industry have talked about paywalls where certain content is reserved for "subscribers only" for an initial time.
I've not heard of any such thing.
But, either way, that's quite different. We have not locked up our content for any time. Our content is being revealed at the same time it would be normally. All this does is let some people see the content EARLY. It's not a paywall, no matter what sort of logic you use to try to convince yourself that it is one.
If you don't pay, *nothing* changes for you. With a paywall, that's not the case.
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Re: Re: A Rose
Congrats, you have managed to mangle a concept so completely, and you are using your own fans to prove the point. It isn't CwF + RtB, it's more the old "a sucker is born every moment", proving perhaps at a certain volume, a website attracts enough sheep that you can always shear them.
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Re: Re: Re: A Rose
Wrong: there is no need. You'll point this out in a few more words yourself, but the point is that nothing changes for most people. The stories are already delayed so that people have time to respond & discuss before the next story pops up. Look at virtually any blog and you'll find this is the case. It's how you foster a community.
"the right to be a few minutes ahead of others on information that doesn't really get stale very fast."
And here you go pointing out that it has no value, therefore you aren't missing out on anything. Congratulations on eating your own tail.
I'd be very curious to know how many people contribute money because of the Crystal Ball. I'll guess very few.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: A Rose
"artificially creating a need that wasn't there" is the key to this. It's just cheap marketing (not even first year, more like first project first year), and nothing more. It's the creation of a need in order to sell a product. Most of the people here didn't feel the need to be 15 minutes ahead of everyone else on Techdirt's spew, but now a level has been created that some people will aspire to for no sane reason other than to be somehow better or more important. It's cheapo marketing, and funny enough, won't do much to prove Mike's point. It's more of the George Carlin "If you nail two things together that have never been nailed together before, some schmuck will buy it from you".
When the entire world is down to selling t-shirts, we have reached the bottom of marketing barrel, not reached a summit.
"here you go pointing out that it has no value"
It has no value to me. The point is that artifical value is created, and the crew that want to suck up to Mike and somehow be his bestest buddy will be there buying hoodies and "connecting" with Mike. In the end, it's horsecrap, more Pavlog's Dog than truly intelligence discourse or scientific method.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Rose
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Rose
Perhaps you can call Amanda RudeWord Palmer for help on shlogging your shirts on a Friday night. She is apparently really good at selling crap to the faithful.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Rose
You or Mike.
Since you're both laughing, which one of you is laughing all the way to the bank?
I'd say that would be the last laugh.
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Re: Re: A Rose
I wish I could have seen your face as you typed that. Surely it couldn't have been straight.
Still, I understand your embarrassment.
I've not heard of any such thing.
Well then, you learned something today. The idea is sometimes called a "hot-news" paywall.
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Re: Re: Re: A Rose
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Re: Re: Re: Re: A Rose
I agree, but there are some (many?) in the newspaper industry that don't. They think people will pay today for the local hot-news that they could read tomorrow for free. Of course there's even less of a chance of that working with national news where there are so many sources available.
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Re: Re: A Rose
You can't while it's behind the paywall. Only after it comes out.
Now if you're saying that if you can access it sometime later then it was never behind a paywall to begin with, then I suppose one could then argue that it has yet to be proven that there is even any such thing as a paywall, anywhere. This is because it is possible (many say likely) that everything will be available eventually. Someday. Ergo, no paywall.
So OK, it's not a paywall if you accept that there's no such thing as a paywall.
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You were right, Mike
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Re:
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Good on Techdirt!
However, with paying subscribers it will be much easier to identify who to file suit against since Techdirt will have billing and other information on file that can be subpoenaed that will be very useful. Techdirt is going to make it even easier on attorneys by actually placing a little "insider" label by the names of such commenters to indicate that they are easily traceable.
This is a good move indeed on the part of Techdirt in becoming a more responsible internet citizen and making it easier to bring defamation cases to court where they can be settled properly. While anonymous comments haven't been eliminated here yet, this is at least a good first step in that direction. That is what I would like to eventually see and I encourage everyone here to become good, responsible subscribers.
And remember, if you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear.
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Re: Good on Techdirt!
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Re: Re: Good on Techdirt!
What have you got to fear?
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Re: Good on Techdirt!
I've seen plenty of douchebags in the comments over the years, but this post might take the cake as the most un-American of all.
You, sir, are trying to influence the community with fear, in such a manner as to try to stifly people's desire to post their opinions. Perhaps you would fit better in some authoritarian regime, please seek one out.
Insert Godwin's Law here.
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Re: Re: Good on Techdirt!
Free speech does not include freedom to defame. In fact, your calling me a "stifler of free speech" seems defamatory, so I'd watch my step, legal wise, if I were you.
I've seen plenty of douchebags in the comments over the years, but this post might take the cake as the most un-American of all.
More name calling. Yep, I think I'm starting to see a pattern of intentional defamation here. Thank goodness you're using a registered account.
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Re: Re: Re: Good on Techdirt!
Well, at least now you're being funny.
Send me the lawsuit at your leisure. I hear the supreme court is very eager to consider cases of "name calling" within blog comments, rare as they are.
PS: like Techdirt, you'll find shut-up money more effective with me, and I'll accept less than $100M.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Good on Techdirt!
Hmm, maybe you heard that from the same source as some of your other misguided ideas, because it's wrong. Defamation is a fairly settled area of law. Of course, there are plenty of losers who have fantasies of "appealing it all the way to the Supreme Court." Then they learn that SCOTUS doesn't have time for them.
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Re: Good on Techdirt!
I gather from your commentary that you're against Freedom of Speech? This is a collection of thoughts, and as you've indirectly admitted by posting as "A. Turney" anyone has the ability to debunk anything.
If it's wrong, then you, as a citizen of the united states, could also excercize 1st amendment privilege.
But, to advocate a position which doesn't excercise first amendment rights seems to direct down a path that would enrich yourself or your professional colleagues. It would be nice to know your name, as I would be happy to discuss this thought experiment in person, at a Bar Association Meeting, perhaps.
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Mike, have you perhaps realizes that aggregated eyeballs in a sucky economy mean poor financial return? If 15 minutes works, will you extend it to an hour, a day, a week? A paywall is a paywall, even for 15 minutes.
It's impressive. Do as I say, not do as I do.
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Seeing the working drafts != a paywall
The status quo:
Techdirt have an internal queue of stories in various stages of being ready to go. While stories are in this queue they can still be edited with additional details that come to hand prior to publication. Currently, only Techdirt employees are able to participate in this process of review prior to publication.
The Crystal Ball:
Those with a "shovel stuff out to the consumer" mindset see the crystal ball aspect of the new Techdirt subscriptions as merely a paywall that allows readers to "see" the Techdirt stories a short time before publication.
Those that see the internet as a communications and collaboration medium, however, see this as an invitation from Mike and the other folks at Techdirt saying "Hey, if you give us money to support what we do, then we will also give you the opportunity to help more directly by being part of the process that *creates* the Techdirt articles in the first place."
For most people, the crystal ball isn't going to matter - they'll be paying up because they like what Mike and the others do and want them to be able to keep doing it (well, except for the $100m "go away for a year" option). But for others, that extra sense of belonging to the community that comes from providing pre-publication commentary on the articles posted will be something they see as being worth paying for.
Since this is something that can greatly increase some supporters' feelings of connection with Techdirt that doesn't really cost the TD crowd much of anything to offer, it makes sense to bundle it in as a bonus with most of the contribution options.
It's really important to grasp the significance of the "Connect" part of "Connect with Fans". A connected fan cares about you being able to continue to do what you do (in Techdirt's case, produce this blog, but in an artist's case, continue producing music or comics or books or whatever). Genuinely connected fans with some discretionary funds to spend are happy to pay a premium because they like what the recipient of those funds is doing. It's a completely different model to the "consume this because that's what the cool kids are doing" approach preferred by the mainstream media groups.
There's a reason I brought up the example of Howard Tayler & Schlock Mercenary in a previous post - once you factor in shipping costs and the USD->AUD conversion Tayler's books are actually incredibly expensive for me to buy. I do it anyway because he clearly puts tremendous effort into providing a quality product and because I know exactly where the money is going (i.e. allowing Tayler to continue writing his webcomic as a full time job).
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Re: Seeing the working drafts != a paywall
This is probably a futile effort at getting through to the folks jumping up and down yelling "Techdirt put up a paywall, Techdirt put up a paywall!!", but what the hell, I'll give it a go.
Just to be clear -- it's *1* person, posting repeatedly, trying to make something out of nothing.
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Re: Re: Seeing the working drafts != a paywall
Hah, for it to be nothing, you and the fan boys sure are trying hard to deny it.
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Re: Re: Re: Seeing the working drafts != a paywall
You can call it a paywall if you really want to, but I believe doing so glosses over important distinctions between what most people would think of as a paywall and what Techdirt is doing (i.e. most 'early access' paywalls don't include the invitation to be part of a community since they don't include an "early feedback" option, they really are just about getting access to information early. However, other community sites like Groklaw and Slashdot let you sign up free for "early access" to stories before they appear on the main page of the respective sites).
On a slightly different note, stock market price tickers actually come to mind as an example of a simple "hot news" paywall that works - notice that all the free feeds are delayed by 15-20 minutes. For investors that buy stocks and hold them for months or years that delay doesn't matter, but for day traders holding positions for minutes or hours such a delay is unacceptable so they pay up for the early access. The delay is short enough (and presumably the fees are low enough) that there is no real incentive for someone to try to disrupt the existing paid feeds with a free real-time feed.
So I don't think it's a matter of "hot news" paywalls not being a valid source of income - I think it's a matter of recognising the existence of an appropriate delay between "insider publication" and "general publication" (in TD's case, the existing gap between "publication to employees" and "publication on the site") and then seeing if there is a segment of the population that would be interested in paying for the early access.
That said, I suspect cases where this could be a valid *business* model in its entirety are rare in the extreme. Even in TD's case, the crystal ball is probably something they threw in because it costs them next to nothing and hey, some people might like it.
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Re: Re: Seeing the working drafts != a paywall
Now now, Mike. I *have* commented repeatedly, but I have also seen other paywall comments that weren't mine.
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Thanks to everyone so far!
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Re: Thanks to everyone so far!
Then your Crystal Ball is broken, as it shows me nothing of these plans.
;)
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Connect to US fans only apparently :(
Otherwise I would have gotted the $35 package. But I'm not going to pay for products I won't get, so it'll be the $15 option.
Do you perhaps have an amazon.com affiliate link for the book? :) At least I could get the book that way. Shame about the t-shirt, though. :)
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Re: Connect to US fans only apparently :(
Yeah... we're really working on this, as the international demand has certainly been very high. Hoping we can at least start adding *some* countries in very short order, though there may be added expenses. Hope to have some more news on this by the end of the week if possible.
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Re: Re: Connect to US fans only apparently :(
This is really putting [y]our money where your mouth is. ;)
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Star in the next Kandystand music video
Email: productions@kandystand.com
Url: http://www.kandystand.com/
Kandystand, the hottest dance music act have just launched their new VIP Experiences store on their website at http://www.kandystand.com
The VIP store will offer fans the opportunity to get involved in the bands activities, the first of which will be starring in their next video shoot for the single 'Open Your Heart', which is being shot in Paris.
Lead singer Katy D says that the events will give a great fun way for fans to be part of the Kandystand world, "Being in a band is a fun experience, we wanted to let our fans share in the fun too, which is why we are offering these once in a lifetime VIP experiences, it'll be a real adventure".
By booking a place on the video shoot, you'll be flown to Paris, get a stay in a top hotel, enjoy some great food and a fabulous party with the band.
Kandystand producer DJ Alodis said today "This is a great opportunity for people to get on screen, how many people get to say they've been featured on a music video? Whether it's aspiring actors, independent artists who want to get some exposure, or just a fan who wants to have a real fun holiday, this really is a unique experience".
Check out the promo video for the video shoot at http://www.youtube.com/kandystandeurope and book your place at the Kandystand VIP Experience Store over at http://www.kandystand.com
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Re: Star in the next Kandystand music video
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Hoodies
Seems a bit harsh saying that $20,000 for the "Mike Masnick Works For You Package" doesn't at least give you the option of a t-shirt or a hoodie let alone having both
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Re: Hoodies
If it's a difference maker for you, if you buy the "Mike Masnick Works For You Package," we can throw in an extra hoodie as well. :)
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lol shenanigans
I'd love to get a t-shirt saying, 'I got sued for trademark infringement' on the front, then '100 Million to shut me up for a year.' on the back. :D
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RTFM
and you were right about the pricey bit
ah.. in casr you were wondering... there are a LOT of us out here who want to be PAID for contribs..
like "worlds largest land-grab" bill c-61
or americian version.
pat
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Right on.
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LOL...not only are we leveraging and monetizing the techdirt community for our own gain (Insight Community), but now you can contribute your work, and pay us for the priviledge! How very web 2.0.! Or should I say how very Tom Sawyer (anyone got a fence need whitewashing?)...
Incidentally, please don't interpret this as a criticism...if people are willing to pay for the priviledge, then more power to you...
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Re:
LOL...not only are we leveraging and monetizing the techdirt community for our own gain (Insight Community), but now you can contribute your work, and pay us for the priviledge! How very web 2.0.! Or should I say how very Tom Sawyer (anyone got a fence need whitewashing?)...
Heh. Logic 101: We PAY people to be a part of the Insight Community. Last year, our top earner made over $20,000. What other media property pays people to contribute their insights?
And you accuse *us* of exploiting people? Yikes, are you out of it.
Look, I recognize that you're really jealous of our success, but maybe you ought to try criticizing us on things that are actually accurate?
Incidentally, please don't interpret this as a criticism...if people are willing to pay for the priviledge, then more power to you...
Uh, no one's "paying us for the privilege." We pay them for writing smart stuff (you probably wouldn't do so well). The cwf + rtb model isn't them paying for a privilege, it's them paying for something of value.
Transactions where everyone's better off? That's a good thing. You might want to learn about how capitalism works.
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Took the plunge.
Now, I must age while my book and shirt arrive.
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Just got my T-shirt
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Would like a T- Shirt...
No, but really I will wait for a plain front or maybe other choices. I don't feel like having to explain "Loooots of T-shirts" to everyone I talk to while wearing it.
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Thanks
shirt arrived today.... wooohooo..
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ha!
Just curious.
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How about a bit of connecting with fans ?
In that vein, why are all the T shirts sold out with no apparent attempt to get more or take back orders ?
(Seems like bad business sense above all).
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ouch, the Angry Man is angry
http://angryman314.squarespace.com/
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So is this experiment still in process?
(CwF+RtB)/Sold Out = SFA (sweet fcuk all).
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usa tactical store
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