Since When Is Sharing So Bad?
from the it-seems-like-a-good-thing dept
Jerry Leichter writes "We're all taught to share as kids, and sharing is a fundamental aspect of human societies. But sharing is also "anti-market" - at least as many sellers see it. I have something - a piece of music, a lawnmower - that you need. If I share with you, we both come out ahead - but if instead you buy one for yourself, the seller and manufacturer comes out ahead.Need a Connection? Sorry, This Is MyFi is a sad tale of where our society has come to. In brief: The writer has a MiFi, a little box that connects to the cellular network and creates a small WiFi network that you can connect to. She was using here MiFi box at the San Francisco airport. Someone recognized it and asked if he could share here connection. She said "no".
Now, she was certainly under no obligation to share her connection. There are good reasons for saying "no". The connection isn't super-fast, and depending on what you and the sharer are doing, you might well notice a slowdown. There's a cap on monthly usage, beyond which you pay per byte, so if you tend to come near the limit (it's 5GB and unless you use the service to do things like download movies regularly it's hard to do) it could cost you.
Still, it would have been a *nice* thing to share - you'd think. Most (to be fair, not all) of the responses to the article are adamant that sharing is a bad idea. All the bad memes appear: "He could download child porn. He could share music. You could be blamed." The general feeling is that sharing your WiFi connection is like picking up a scary-looking hitch-hiker. I mean, what were you thinking?
Even worse, many people seem to believe *it's rude to ask*! That, I find astounding and deeply disturbing. Do we really want to live in a society where asking you to share something that may well cost you nothing to provide is *rude*?
There's plenty of work in behavioral economics that shows we classify transactions as either "social" or "economic". We apply different standards to each. The social realm is all about reciprocity and trust, while the economic realm is all about value and rules. Once things cross over into the economic realm - and a simple mention of money is often enough to cause a transition - it's extremely difficult to go back. (If you think this is all about some dreamy socialist communal life, consider what would happen on a date if - to be traditional - the guy made a point of how much the dinner cost, what he paid for the theatre tickets, etc. Think that evening would end well?)
Yes, network access is sold, not given away. Yes, someone does have to pay to build out the networks - so I have no problem paying my fair share - just as I pay for the sugar in my kitchen. But is it really wrong for my neighbor to knock on the door and ask to share some?"
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Filed Under: non-zero sum games, sharing, win-win
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Shortsighted
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Re: Shortsighted
The fact that there should even be any question about that fact, especially among lawmakers, just shows how far down our society has plunged.
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Sharing is the wrong meme
You have a car and I do not. If you loan me that car, then you do without while it's gone. I return your car, and now once again I'm without and need to take the bus. Same for your DVD.
That's why it's considered polite and nice to share, as you've undergone at least some level of inconvenience on my behalf.
File "sharing", however, is anything but. You're not sharing, but distributing someone else's work. There's no hardship, as you grin and slip me a copy and keep on consuming yours.
From my perspective, the idea that someone feels entitled to rip off anything and everything they want, just because they want it, shows just how far down our society has plunged.
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Re: Sharing is the wrong meme
Erm.... sharing does NOT automatically encompass "some level of inconvenience on my behalf". That's pure bs. If you're so constrained that you cannot imagine a scenario where you could share without experiencing inconvenience then that merely highlights your lack of imagination (or perhaps you're just the type of person who disappears when it's their round.)
Oh and "sharing in the traditional sense"? What the hell is that exactly? Ancient greek Sharing? Neanderthal sharing? WTF are you on about?
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Re: Sharing is the wrong meme
No hardship.
Nice try though.
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Re: Sharing is the wrong meme
If I do the same for everyone on the block, then you've got a good 10-20 people that get all the benefits of a lawnmower at absolutely no cost to them.
How is that any different than copying a CD for you, and all my friends?
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Re: Re: Sharing is the wrong meme
Just FYI: Commercial mowers often mow 10-20 customers per week, and in some climates they may get 2-3 years of service from a mower, after which they buy another.
As for CD's and DVD's, the only thing you are out is the time it takes to gather the content, purchase the computer, format the CD's and DVD's, make the copies, and deliver them to all your friends. My immediate reaction: If you have that much time on your hands you should be out washing the car, mowing the yard, or trimming weeds.
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Re: Sharing is the wrong meme
On a side note, is it proper to think of music, art etc as being consumed? At what point can a painting be considered consumed, after the first viewing? After the second? After the three hundredth? To me, such works should not be 'consumer goods' because the a single work can never be removed because another uses it, and does not depreciate over time. Software and other non-artistic IP does not fall into this category, because through use the program may develop security holes, be rendered obsolete by advances in the field, and generally become less viable (if left alone) as more customers use it. Artistic work, on the other hand, can never become less viable in this fashion and should not be lumped in with consumer goods. The mistake in copyright is not recognizing this.
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Re: Re: Sharing is the wrong meme
GOOD ONE!!!
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Re: Sharing is the wrong meme
Sharing your car can also be "carpooling". In that way, nobody gets to be without. It's really the car owner's (as in the guy how bought the car) choice on what "sharing his car" means.
If the car is a Toyota, Toyota can't tell the guy what's sharing and what is not.
"From my perspective, the idea that someone feels entitled to rip off anything and everything they want, just because they want it, shows just how far down our society has plunged."
When somebody pays good money for something, they're entitled to do what they will with it. If I bought a DVD of UP, ripped it, and put the file in my shared folder; why should your perspective matter?
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Re: Shortsighted
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Re: Shortsighted
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Re: Re: Shortsighted
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the shills always take it back to movies, music and software, regardless of the actual content of the post.
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Re: Shortsighted
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Re: Re: Shortsighted
you're damn right he does!
all this sharing talk sounds like socialism, which i think we can all agree is unamerican. i thank baby jesus every day that there are still good people like @recycledbottle out there protecting our way of life.
i don't think anyone should just get something for free, not even my kids. i charge those little bastards rent and sell them food and clothing for a small profit. i could charge more, but they're children, and i don't do anything without thinking of the children first.
i also charge them for all of those "life lessons" i teach them. i worked hard to gain all of that experience and i am not going to just give my intellectual property away for free just because you happen to be the fruit of my loins.
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Re: Re: Re: Shortsighted
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Being a socialist or a capitalist doesn't make you share more. Sharing doesn't make you a socialist or a capitalist :|. It makes you a bit more humble though.
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Re: Re: Re: Shortsighted
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Re: Re: Re: Shortsighted
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It's not rude to ask. It's rude to say no and not provide a reason. A reason is "I have a data limit".
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Re:
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"sure, just be careful please, i am responsible for what happens on this connection." is also a good response.
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And what I would say.
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On a side note, usually criminals abide by laws while mature adults abide by morals established in society.
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Furthermore, I pay the taxes on the 911 connection. Why should be you be utilizing a service I've paid taxes for? You must be challenged. I paid for it then I use it. I'm responsible for the fake calls coming from that number, not you. If you're dying then MAYBE I'll let you make a call and monitor it. If you scream, though, I'm cutting you off.
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Criminals, by definition, break laws.
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That's what I've noticed from personal experience anyway.
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Case law not yet established
We do not yet have established law telling me whether or not I am responsible should someone use my wifi (with and without my permission) to do something illegal. Until I know where I stand legally, I have to protect myself.
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Re: Case law not yet established
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don't you watch the news? there is a gay serial killing pedophile crack addict gangbanging terrorist hiding in the bushes right outside your house right now waiting patiently to rape, murder, and force you into gay marriage and abortion, all in the name of allah.
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Re: Case law not yet established
In case you couldn't tell, I'm mocking you. It's your type, sir, that's ruining America.
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Re: Re: Case law not yet established
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Re:
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Download this song
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If I was on someone else's mifi
Sharing is a good thing and being very respectful while you are using something that isn't yours is a good thing.
As a side note if the guy had any real malicious intent he probably could have hacked into her mifi and done whatever he wanted. The fact that he asked would indicate to me that he had honest intentions.
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Really?
It's interesting that a few people here are focusing on the sharing between music fans. But, ignoring the idea of sharing between artist and fan.
The article makes the following comment (I think it's Mike, but everything is italics so it's unclear).
"There's plenty of work in behavioral economics that shows we classify transactions as either "social" or "economic". We apply different standards to each. The social realm is all about reciprocity and trust, while the economic realm is all about value and rules."
I think the key to understanding what's going on with file-sharing is understanding the above. Music fans are fans of music and the artists that create it. Music is culture, communication. It's a social interaction. Music fans don't view their relationship with artists as economic.
During the 20th century, there was only one way to own the music you loved, thru the record labels. As such it was tolerated.
However, now the reproduction and distribution of digital content is virtually $0.00. It's also possible to market and promote in many new ways more cheaply with a wider reach.
When Lar starts complaining about people stealing Metallica's music he defined Metallica's relationship with its fans as economic. It's no surprise to me, that when a band as beloved by its fans as Metallica, perhaps unwittingly, defined the relationship as economic, that the fans react quickly and harshly.
Music fans share because they love music, it's natural to share and they view their relationship with music and artists as social, not economic.
It doesn't matter what law are enacted, what education is attempted, what pleading or bulling is tried. Music fans will never, ever accept a relationship with music and artists as economic, it just won't happen.
That doesn't mean music fans won't support their favorite bands financially. They will, as long as they are treated fairly and the nature of their connection with music is respected.
Music fans live in a world where it costs $1 for a low quality mp3 file or $13 for a $1 piece of plastic and the record industry insisting on an economic relationship between fans and artists. Society may be plunging but it isn't because of the music fans.
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Re:
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Sharing
But if you wish to use my 3G connection as I have to pay for what I use over 5GB I sure as hell am going to say no.
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Easy Answer
If anyone agrees to all this bullshit, they deserve to be allowed to share your connection.
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Sharing...
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Re: Sharing...
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I normally agree with 90% of this site.....
First, it is simple etiquette, you do not walk up to a stranger and ask to borrow their "property" or services in this case. That is just bad manners.
Secondly, the security issue is valid. The person has no idea what their connection will be used for, or what kind of access the other individual will have (or attempt to gain) to their own PC.
Now, this would all change, if the individual had already expressed a willingness to share the connection. It would not be rude to say, "Excuse me. I saw you offer to share your connection with that person. When they are done, do you mind if I connect as well? I have an important message I need to send [reservation to change, email to check, etc]." That would be an acceptable time and method in which to ask.
Just because someone has a service that allows itself to be shared among others, does not mean they are obligated to.
I will grant one obvious exception to this: In cases of emergencies, the normal rules of decorum can be loosened (of course).
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Re: I normally agree with 90% of this site.....
If it's an emergency you have a right to use my phone (Well, you need to find batteries - I paid for these batteries and the batteries aren't covered by the same warranty as the phone is since they are an "accessory". Talk to any major cellular carrier regarding this.).
If it isn't an emergency get away from me . You're being rude.
Yes, let's set social standards that we expect others to follow. No talking on the train, it's rude. Most people just want to get home after a busy day of work. No socializing and if you do it's extremely rude. Why? Because you're being approached by someone at a time that is inconvenient to YOU and your just don't feel like using the time to be helpful.
Where's society headed with such attitudes?
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Re: I normally agree with 90% of this site.....
I agree with Kazi, this is sad. I hope it's not considered bad manners to ask our fellow human beings for small favors. Personally I enjoy an opportunity to help others when it doesn't greatly inconvenience me, and I'm sure there any many others who agree.
Really how often are you asked for help from a stranger when it's not either an emergency or something trivial? Come on, help out your fellow (wo)man.
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WWJD
That's right ladies and germs, he only bought 3 fish and a loaf of bread, but he fed hundreds of people! What about the fish/bread vendor's bottom line!? Think about all the lost potential sales!!
That's right, if you're against File Sharing, you're against Jesus. Take that, RIAA.
If it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me. (Except for that absinence thing, thanks but no thanks J-dog.) :P
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Re: WWJD
That's brilliant. It should be on a t-shirt.
Loooooooots of t-shirts.
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Re: Re: WWJD
I also would have shared my mifi connection, but I'm cool like that.
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since when is sharing bad?
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Re: since when is sharing bad?
Therefore, sharing is still good.
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