Music Publishers Force Lyrics API Offline; How Dare Anyone Make Lyrics Useful
from the lame dept
For many years, music publishers have always hated online lyrics sites. Rather than realizing that such sites help people connect better with songs, the publishers only thought in terms of "copyright infringement." Over the years, they've forced a number of such sites to close down. Chris Takacs points us to the latest such move. At the very least, they're not forcing an entire site offline, but they've forced the owner of a lyrics site to shut off its API. LyricWiki had a nice little API that would allow programmers to embed lyrics from the wiki within their programs... but the music publishers freaked out that people might actually read lyrics without paying for them and sent out the legal muscle. As the article above notes, in an era of digital music, where fewer and fewer people are buying CDs with lyrics in the liner notes, online lyrics sites make more sense than ever before. Why are music publishers so against them?
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Filed Under: apis, copyright, lyrics, lyricwiki, music publishers
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Mike, you are the one that goes on and on about "RtB". reason to buy? Get the lyric sheets. If the lyrics are widely and freely distributed, another reason to buy is removed.
The process is so obvious here.
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It makes more sense (both common and financial) to just go to a lyrics site, copy-paste lyrics into Word, format them however you want, and print off a copy.
If I told you I wanted to purchase the ability to view lyrics, would you consider me an intelligent person or a fool?
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The thing is that they are considered part of sheet music, although only distributed as such to people who actually buy sheet music. Most fans just want to know what the hell Vork and Zaboo said in their rap break.
Er, point is that the distinction made a hundred odd years ago no longer holds up, oddly enough.
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Get that through your thick skull.
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How is that a scarcity? Some people are just better at accurately hearing lyrics and transcribing them than others.
We're not talking about lyric sheets (which may or may not be what is actually said in the song) or linear notes. We're talking about lyric sites that transcribe a song, and make those fan transcriptions available to other people.
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Re: Re: Transcription
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Re: Re: Re: Transcription
Sites like LyricWiki, whose API has been disabled recently, are made up entirely of user-submitted posts (hence the "wiki"). Lyrics should be freely available to anyone who wants them. People can connect more with the music they own by learning the lyrics, which will result in more music sales. Furthermore, the lyrics are no good as simple text unless the person viewing them already owns the song. So the music industry really has no point in going after the lyric sites, because they just are a forum in which people share ideas which help them enjoy their music even more.
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fuck them
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Hmmm, let's talk it out.
I don't see the infringement at all. I never will. I heard it, he heard it, we compared notes, we agree it's probably "somebody else's sky". Make the compelling argument that I can't freely discuss this with someone else, or make the text available for anyone else to read and evaluate.
-C
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Dear Music Industry: My only reason for ever looking up lyrics is to find the name of a song heard on the radio SO I COULD BUY THE SONG. got it? No 007lyrics.com, no sale. got it?
My process has changed to 'jot down lyrics and look up later' to 'try kazaa and if no hits, jot down lyrics and look up later'.
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How I find music
no lyrics? less sales.
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Sad to see this go.
It is very odd to talk about songs, but not mention their lyrics.
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There's a bathroom on the right
I just bought a waterbed filled up with up with Elmer's Glue
The girl with colitis goes by
Okay, the waterbed is a purposeful reimagination of the lyrics by serious fans, but the others are all commonly misheard. While AC almost has a point, the lyrics are half of what connects a band to its fans. The better they can sing along, especially when they know there's a bad moon on the rise keeps them from feeling like an idiot for singing the wrong words at the top of their lungs.
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Re: There's a bathroom on the right
Frak yeah. That was driven home to me a year ago when I first saw mc chris in concert. He does a call-and-response for part of his show, and having the audience, even if they were new, conversant with the lyrics was a key part of it. Huge CwF moment.
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Re: There's a bathroom on the right
But sheep don't like it.
Lock the Cashbox, lock the cashbox-
Wait...isn't he saying stop the cat box?
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Re: Re: There's a bathroom on the right
eat your oat cakes,
Eat your oat cakes Annie....
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Oh, whoa, I said boll weevils glow,
They glow?
Yah yah yah yah yah yah,
I said, uh, Lou A, Lou I,
No, waiting, you know those boll weevils glows,
This light, above, it singes my hair,
Boll Weevil Louie, gave me a scare,
That's why I'll never, understand,
Why, Boll Weevil, mates with a hen,
Oh, Lou A, Lou I,
Oh, whoa, I said boll weevils glow,
They glow?
Yah yah yah yah yah yah,
I said, uh, Lou A, Lou I,
No, waiting, you know those boll weevils glows,
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Keep it straight...
You can't listen to music without paying... you can't read, download, or in any way get the lyrics... you can't read, download, or in any way get the sheet music... you can't look sheet music online... you can't look at lyrics online... you can't read the titles of music without breaking some sort of copyright... you can't air drum or air guitar or even sing the lyrics out loud in public places or any other place filled with animals... you can't talk to the owners of the music... you can't contest the owners of the music... you're not allowed to suggest alternative models of releasing music... you're not allowed to tell someone it's a good idea to use an alternative model... you're not allowed to release any music you create and sell to the music industries... you don't own any music you sell to the music industries... you can't get any money from the music industries you sold your music to... you can't let a radio station play your music without the station paying the music industries royalties...
...
TechDirt ought to create a loooooong list of things a musician who signs up with the music industry can and can't do with their own music. And at the very end of each comment, put a yes or no.
I can guarantee new and upcoming musicians will look at that and say "OMFG!!! Forget that! I'm releasing my own music!"
I'd love to see that extra long list.
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Re: Keep it straight...
I want to add "You're not able to criticize your industry."
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Re: Keep it straight...
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Re: Keep it straight...
1. Pay for the physical format that houses the song
2. Pay to play the song in front of people
3. Pay to listen to the song
4. Pay a flat fee for all the people that could have but didn't listen to the song
5. Pay a huge fee because you left the disc laying around that someone could have walked by and copied while you weren't looking (the going rate in the US is $980,000 per CD's worth of music)
Rinse & Repeat
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Re: Keep it straight...
I suspect when they get to the bottom and realize that the only thing they can do for cash is be a busker, they will be more than happy to sign a record deal.
Well, the could sell t-shirts on a friday night.
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Re: Keep it straight...
You can't listen to music without paying
Sure you can...on the radio.
you can't read, download, or in any way get the lyrics
There are numerous sites where you can read lyrics on the web for free. This action doesn't affect those sites or even reading the lyrics on LyricWiki. It may be technically illegal, but you can still do it and I've not heard of any suit for copyright infringement over lyrics online. When all those sites are shut down, I'll agree with you on this.
you can't read, download, or in any way get the sheet music
There are numerous sites where you can get sheet music for free. So far, they've not been shut down. It may be technically illegal, but you can still do it and I've not heard of any suit for copyright infringement over sheet music online. When these sites are shut down by legal action, I'll agree with you on this.
you can't look sheet music online
See above
you can't look at lyrics online
See above
you can't read the titles of music without breaking some sort of copyright
Incorrect. You can read titles all you want. You can even copy titles all you want. You can even use those titles as the titles of your own songs all you want (unless they're trademarked). None of those are covered by copyright at all.
you can't air drum or air guitar or even sing the lyrics out loud in public places or any other place filled with animals
You can air drum all you want to any music whatsoever. You can play air guitar all you want to any music whatsoever. There may be restrictions of singing lyrics in a public place, whether animals are present or not. You may sing in the shower all you want. You may sing to your cat, if your cat will allow it.
you can't talk to the owners of the music
Sure you can. But you can't force them to listen.
you can't contest the owners of the music
What are you contesting? Their ownership of the copyright? Well, you probably could contest them over that, but you'll lose. You can also challenge them to a cribbage contest; let me know if they accept.
you're not allowed to suggest alternative models of releasing music
Sure you are. But, again, you can't make them listen or use your alternative suggestion.
you're not allowed to tell someone it's a good idea to use an alternative model
Sure you are. It's up to them to decide whether your idea is good or not.
you're not allowed to release any music you create and sell to the music industries
That depends on the contract you sign with the music industry. Contracts with indie labels may very well allow this. How good a negotiator are you?
you don't own any music you sell to the music industries
That depends on the contract you sign. If you sell your copyrights, then that's your decision, and then you wouldn't own the music. If you license the rights, you might still technically own the music but not control it. I'll give you half a point here.
you can't get any money from the music industries you sold your music to
If you don't get any money when "selling" your music to the "music industry" you should fire your business manager instantly! This, too, depends on the contract you sign. If you don't get a guaranteed, non-returnable advance up front, your business manager or lawyer is a moron.
you can't let a radio station play your music without the station paying the music industries royalties
Sure you can. Actually terrestrial radio stations don't pay royalties...not yet. The royalty agencies are pushing for this, but it's unclear whether they have a chance of succeeding.
So, let's recap. Of the 15 things you claim "you can't" do, you can't actually do one and a half. Two you can do, though it may be technically illegal, three depend on your negotiating skills with the music industry where no one is forcing you to accept their terms, and the rest your quite free to do, though whether you achieve your goals is questionable. Now, counting the half point...
You're batting .066 (that's just over 6% or 1 for 15).
Just keeping it straight.
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I think you're ignoring the context. The context is that you can't do it legally. People can sell illegal drugs just as well but they can't do it legally and when people speak within the context of the law the context should be obvious.
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I'm not sure how or why you'd "challenge copyright". The only way to "challenge" copyright is to copy something and see if you're sued. If you do your homework, it shouldn't be a problem. Except in a few instances, what is public domain and what is copyright still isn't that complex.
However, I suspect that's not what you're driving at, but rather instances where someone claims a copyright over content that is not covered by copyright. How serious a problem it is, I'm not sure, but I would definitely like to see copyright law reformed so there is a penalty for anyone who files a suit claiming copyright where there clearly is none or for content that is not copyrightable.
Are you done? Because that took forever to say nothing.
Actually, no. The point is that these are serious issues that call for at least fact-based discussion; the litany of "things you can't do" was a bit light in the "fact" department.
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77,000,000 hits
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iPods support lyrics since the early 60s, but iTunes songs absent lyrics?
I am sure there's some dumb reason like royalties or the additional cost for lyrics would bump up the price of iTunes songs to $1.29 a piece. Wait a minute...!
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Yeah, no kidding. I looked through every single one of my Mozart and Beethoven CDs... no lyrics.
:D
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Makes Sense
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Re: Makes Sense
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Cool another great Idea ,,,,
"
270 note/entry) Add a clone of this to the business plan but make it an open set of standards.
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Re: Cool another great Idea ,,,,
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/facepalm
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why can't they do it themselves?
They're only contributing to piracy.
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If the lyrics are wrong, do the publishers have a say?
In either case - is it any business of the publisher to take down what is essentially a creative reinterpretation?
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Re: If the lyrics are wrong, do the publishers have a say?
ESL student, translator software (which is NEVER correct), dude's just plain stupid and/or high...the list goes on.
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Words are still public domain, yes?
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The following quoted from:
http://www.origenmusic.com/sacred-choir-music-2.html
"The CD is opened with unusual rendition of Rachmaninov vesper "To Thee We Sing" performed by the Kiev Chamber Choir. The words of the chant are omitted. This rendition is reminder about crazy times of communist Soviet Union. It was impossibly to sing or record religious music in the communist and atheistic country, but it was possible to perform music by Sergey Rachmaninov, ONLY without religious words."
You can also hear all the music on this site for free.
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Re: Re: Makes Sense
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Useful to identify artists
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Why not ask them, rather than stirring up a ruckus serving no useful purpose other than generating rants against those ever so evil music publishers?
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Ummm...
You link to your past article talking about LyricFind trying to get licensing and that they were giving up. You might want to look again; LyricFind is alive and well and has in fact gotten a ton of licensing, and in fact, acts as that central licensing body for the music publishers that they didn't have before. Another company, Gracenote, also provides the same service.
It also needs to repeated that there are a number of lyrics sites that have converted to legitimate, licensed sources, and there is still no charge to users. Some of those sites are Lyrics.com, MetroLyrics.com, and LyricsDir.com.
People shouldn't complain about lyrics sites being shut down when the only difference to the end user is that they get more accurate lyrics, better meta data, and less popups/spam/adware. I don't see the downside.
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Making a list for future musicians
Create a list of all the things musicians signed up with major record labels can and cannot do with their own music. Like:
1) Musicians cannot share their own music that has been sold to the label.
2) Musicians cannot perform the song in the open for free.
3) Musicians cannot share those songs with friends, family, etc.
4) Musicians no longer have any control over songs they sell to the recording industry.
etc. etc. That way, future musicians would have an idea of exactly what they can and can't do. Usually this is covered in the contracts they sign, but having a list of exactly what can and can't be done is something that the contract owners would never allow people to see (as it does not hide the terminology in the 'wording').
Plus, the list can be added to as time goes on... So with this story, the next list item would be something like "Musicians cannot release their lyrics without prior permission" (if a website provides lyrics like this, and the industry sues them, it's a good bet the artist couldn't do it on their personal systems either).
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Re: Making a list for future musicians
Thanks.
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the real reason
I fondly recall when songs in America would be 5+ minutes long. (Hotel California anyone?) And even carry a message.
And as to they lyric-sheets and such. I don't recall even SEEING one in any music store in the last 10 years. If they're not going to sell them, then how can they say that 'making it free, means people won't buy them'?
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Re: what if
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