Music Publishers Now Suing Lyrics Sites And Their Execs
from the and-on-it-goes dept
Last week, we noted that LyricWiki had been pressured to kill its API after music publishers threatened it with a lawsuit. In the comments to that post, someone insisted that there haven't been any lawsuits over lyrics online. If that's true, it just changed. Apparently the removal of the API wasn't enough, as the parent company of LyricWiki, Motive Force Web, along with LiveUniverse (the site run by former MySpace exec Brad Greenspan) have both been sued by a group of music publishers, who are insisting that such sites are unfairly "profiting on the backs of songwriters." I'd really like to see them prove that. These sites aren't profiting off the backs of songwriters, they're helping more people find and understand the lyrics of songs they like. That gives fans a closer connection to the music and more reason to buy things which will actually bring songwriters money. It's stunning how shortsighted and backwards the music publishers are being here.Even worse, the music publishers didn't stop at just suing the two companies here. They also sued the individuals behind them personally. This is a trick that the record labels have been pulling lately as well. It's legalized bullying. These companies realize that by suing execs of these companies personally, it puts that much more pressure on those execs to settle, even though there's no basis whatsoever to go after those execs personally.
So, nice job Peermusic, Warner/Chappell, Bug Music and your lobbying buddies at the National Music Publishers' Association (NMPA), you've pissed off more music fans, made them less likely to find or be interested in music of the songwriters you represent, and have filed misguided lawsuits against individuals who dared to try to provide useful information to the public.
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Filed Under: apis, copyright, lyrics, lyricwiki, music publishers
Companies: bug music, liveuniverse, motive force web, nmpa, peermusic, warner/chappell
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If I find it I might buy it - if I don't find it I definitely won't.
It makes no sense....
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pop song lyrics
I find this is usually a real big dissapointment.
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Publishers have been threatening lyrics sites for as long as I can remember. Way back in the mid 90s. But yet they've refused to offer any alternative. If publishers really wanted to get rid of these lyrics sites, they could do it by releasing a better site. I won't me holding my breath while I wait for that to happen.
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Sadly it is certainly a pipe dream.
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Re: Internet Strikes Back
I would love to see some backlash like that too, but unfortunately in this scenario the backlash would punish consumers just as much as it would the record labels and other lawsuit-happy asshats. Blacklisting certain publishers would make it that much more difficult for consumers to find the lyrics they want, which pretty much defeats the purpose of our efforts to have free access to this kind of information.
Besides, even if there was a blacklist, someone else would fill the void with another site. It's the nature of the internet.
Ciao,
Ben
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And music execs wonder why people aren't lining up to get on the "sign here and we won't sue you" band wagon!
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And people wonder why I don't buy music any more.
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I'd love it...
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Opportunity for competition
Another benefit is that the lyrics would be correct. Most times I visit a lyrics site (as a result of searching Google of a line from the song in order to find out what it was and to go buy it on iTunes), some of the lyrics are clearly wrong or are misspelled. This would eradicate that issue as well.
Speaking of all the incorrect lyrics... it would be amusing for one of these lyrics companies to claim a fair use defense because enough of the content is different form the original that it's not really a copy, even though it was intended to be. THEN the record company lawyers might then be ready to talk about intentions...
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people are lazy
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Re: people are lazy
Also, just because you did it in between defending your village from mammoth attacks doesn't mean we should be forced to do it that way...
..or do you still ride a horse to work?
Thanks for playing though.
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Re: people are lazy
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Re: Re: people are lazy
I shouldn't give them any ideas...
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What about Youtube?
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Additional Information
Live Universe endeavored to license the lyrics from publishers. It went to the expense and trouble of executing most of the licenses, ran out of money and never paid the advances. Live Universe's goal was to have legal sites and work with the publishers to shut down unlicensed competing sites (the sites that Mr. Masnick supports).
So, Live Universe didn't want to be an unlicensed site, but it became one.
Not only did Live Universe fail to live up to its deals with publishers, but it also failed to make the advances and payments it was required to make to the original owners of the lyrics sites it acquired. Therefore, Live Universe may no longer own or control the sites in question because the original webmaters might have taken back back the ownership, and some of these webmasters are outside the USA, so they will avoid the current litigation.
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Re: Additional Information
I guess the lesson here is, you better be ready to step up to the plate if you're gonna play in the big leagues.
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Re: Additional Information
They don't have any similar service to compete with.
No one reads the lyrics to a song and feels as if that is a fair substitute to listening to said song. In fact, more likely (as has been said above) the searcher is looking for the title of the song knowing only a few lyrics with the intent to buy said song.
This is all ass backwards, and you jumped to be first in line. Where does that put you?
For shame.
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Re: Additional Information
More importantly, I find your job title on your blog VERY interesting:
"As Vice President of Hurewitz & Co. Royalty Auditors, I hold major companies worldwide accountable to those with IP interests."
Not that that invalidates your opinion, but that IS the sort of thing you might want to disclose if you want people to continue trusting you.
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Re: Re: Additional Information
I try to disclose my professional bias via my "Auditrix" username and links. However, when I mention in posts that I am a royalty auditor, I am often accused of plugging my services, so it is difficult to strike the right balance between disclosure and self-promotion.
In general, I usually disagree with Techdirt, but I like to read and discuss anyway.
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Re: Re: Re: Additional Information
But in a case like this, people would be right to question your motives. You have provided information that I agree would change the story, but it comes from an anonymous "insider". Sometimes that's acceptable, but when it is passed along by someone with (I assume) a financial/career interest in the outcome of a situation like this, it becomes a bit harder to take at face value.
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Re: Additional Information
So, Live Universe didn't want to be an unlicensed site, but it became one.
I don't see how that makes much of a difference. It still doesn't explain why music publishers would be so shortsighted as to try to take down lyrics sites.
It still doesn't explain why they're suing the individuals personally.
All it suggests is that Brad was suckered into a bad deal (not for the first time, apparently).
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In the end, as Auditrix mentions, a real, legit, and legal site was run out of business by thieving thugs, willing to make a buck but not willing to pay for the goods.
Mike, I have no idea how you can stand up for people who are obviously stealing. It makes you look like a chump.
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Re: It takes one to know one
"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:9-11
"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap." "Sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind."
So what do you think the future holds for the RIAA, the Recording Companies and all these other greedy bastards who legally stole the the rights to what the ARTISTS created.
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more dying dinosaur bs
the phrase, "too stupid to live" comes to mind...
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Now, I post a little snippet of the song by Nightwish, one of my favorites:
Master! A dentist!
Hardcore seven-seater!
Warrior! Despiting!
In me British monster!
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The value of lyrics
I would argue that the same is true of lines from a movie. Nobody would want to just "read" a movie without being able to also see and hear it.
The labels also seem to be missing the point of how the lyrics are used. There are two situations in which I (and I surmise most others) use a lyrics site: (1) to find a song by looking up a line that I heard on the radio, or (2) to figure out what the singer is actually saying. One obvious result of the first point is that it may lead to a purchase.
So to those of you who say that these sites are "obviously stealing", what is it exactly that they're "stealing"? The lyrics are useless without the music. If your answer is that it helps people download music illegally, then you've missed the point and there's not much left to argue about. By your reasoning, Netflix and Blockbuster are also "obviously stealing" because they let people rent movies that they might rip.
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Funny thing is....
So the industry can force those sites offline if they want but they will have a hell of a time with people like me (and seriously doubt I'm the only one that does this) who use those sites to research music to purchase.
They don't want the tracks online to share.
They don't want the videos online to view.
They don't want the lyrics online to research.
Is it me or do they want to force us to blindly buy music without sampling it before hand?
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Re: Funny thing is....
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just don't buy their music
i say this vehemently: to hell the riaa.
sure, i pay more for a cd because of it. but i would rather hand a $20 bill to the guy (for his burned cd no less) who just played a small concert of his own inspired-by-gershwin music. of which, i promptly took home and ripped all the tracks to mp3.
i'd rather give money to musicians than a useless suit.
m3mnoch.
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Correction
However, I didn't "insist" anything. What I wrote was: "I've not heard of any suit for copyright infringement over lyrics online" which is a far cry from "insisting"
Now I have heard of one, so thanks.
But my point in that comment was that you can still find lyrics (and sheet music online) for free, and that point is still true. Your linked article clearly says that there are a number of other sites that obtained the needed licenses.
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What ?
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About those lyric websites
It's aggravating when a FREE, that's to say NO CHARGE. THEY'RE NOT MAKING MONEY OFF OF MY LOOKING AT THE SITE type sites have lyrics for songs I love removed because of some corp nincompoop with a flagpole up his/her a**, when those lyrics might help me continue following and buying the music
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Re: About those lyric websites
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Re: About those lyric websites
Just because they money doesn't come directly out of your pocket doesn't mean it isn't a commercial enterprise. How much do you pay to read Techdirt? Do you think techdirt operates for nothing?
Wake up and smell the banner ads.
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There are always two sides to a story. It would be nice for a change to hear the other side. Upon hearing it one may disagree, but at least one would be much better informed about the competing interests.
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Interesting To Know That...
If the site was supposedly so damaging and profiting to songwriters, why would he be going on to the site and adding his own lyrics as well as correcting older lyrics to his other songs?
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Warner Chappell is Fucked
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weasels
If you try to complain to these reivers you get a bounce.
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Good News
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Its obvious the music industry doesn't LIKE fans
The music industry should be reminded of the story of the goose that laid the golden eggs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Goose_that_Laid_the_Golden_Eggs
(PS - support local musicians, they LOVE fans.)
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it may make sense
However, this article is right. When I hear a new song and don't know who it's by, I look up the lyrics so that I can find the musician and title to hear it again. Lyric sites bring me to the artists that profit from me.
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Music Publishers Now Suing Lyrics Sites And Their Execs
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Lyrics
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Nobody is making a cent from putting up a lyrics page, good fans page that exist since the internet does like Bad Religion's thebrpage.net are there and they released 6 albums on Atlantic before going back to their own. Now if you have one of those lyrics sites full of ads and virii thats different... but even plyrics.com for punk music and darklyrics.com for metal music who's goal is to have ALL the lyrics aren't making a cent. They just provide a useful service for nothing.
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ShakeZoneEntertainment
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