Philly City Council Members Want To Sue Facebook And Twitter Over Flash Mob Snowball Fight

from the section-230 dept

Thu, Feb 18th 2010 12:30pm — Mike Masnick

And here we go again. Apparently there was recently a "flash mob" snowball fight in Philadephia that got a bit out of control, resulting in a "rampage" through a Macy's department store. Nobody was hurt, but 16 people were arrested. So how are Philly officials dealing with it? They're threatening to sue Twitter and Facebook. Seriously. Two city council members say that those companies deserve some of the blame and a lawsuit is an option:

"While [the kids] certainly owe this city an apology and deserve to be punished under the fullest extent of the law, we believe that social media outlets should also bear some of the blame." The letter, written by council members Frank DiCicco and James F. Kenney, explains that this is the second such time a band of mischievous teens has formed via social media and went on to destroy property. "We believe that the lack of monitoring of these sites allows for mass, organized riots to occur."

Hopefully someone explains to these two council members that both sites are certainly protected from liability under Section 230 of the CDA. But, more importantly, beyond just invoking those safe harbors, can someone explain to them how silly it is to blame a communication tool for how it's used? Do they want to sue the phone company when criminals use phones to plan their crimes? Do they threaten to sue the car companies when a car is used in a crime? Furthermore, if their complaint is that these sites failed to "monitor" what people were planning, then isn't the city council actually even more to blame? The content of Twitter is available to the public, and these days much of Facebook is as well (and info on such a flashmob would almost certainly be public). Then shouldn't Philadelphia officials be aware of what's being planned in their own city? Based on the reasoning of DiCicco and Kenney, perhaps they should be suing themselves for failing to monitor what kids in their city were planning on some very public forums.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: city council, flash mob, frank dicicco, james f. kenney, liability, philadelphia, section 230, snowball fight
Companies: facebook, twitter

45 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

yozoo, 18 Feb 2010 @ 12:32pm

wow
Good thing they didnt use thier phones to coordinate and congrigate, then who would people sue . . . ohh, nevermind.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 18 Feb 2010 @ 12:48pm

Well by golly lets go after the manufacturers of baseball bats too, since they are used to cause so much destruction to property.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ima Fish (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 12:49pm

Heck, this would be like me suing you for all the injuries I receive from the face-palming I do when I read this site. it's not your fault I'm injured from face-palming. You're just reporting this crap. It's the fault of the idiots like the Philly officials who actually do this crap.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alan Gerow (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 12:52pm

Re: wow
I read in another article that kids used a variety of tools to get their agenda accomplished. The list of items now deemed socially threatening are:

Language - English ... each person is now required to speak in their own unique language that is to be understood by nobody else.

Brains ... the government education system has spent nearly a century trying to atrophy children's brains so that they can no longer use them. Obviously the government fails another program. People are now forbidden from thinking useful thoughts.

Computers ... each one of them used a computer. Ban the production of all computers, and impound all existing computers.

Telecom infrastructure ... the US's own telecom system was used against it in this unparalleled attack by clumps of frozen moisture. Shut down all communications between citizens.

Mother Nature ... she provided the ammo, that bitch.

Obviously language, our brains, computers, and the telecom system all shoulder equal responsibility in the tragic events that unsettled a Macy's for an afternoon. Our ancestors should be ashamed of themselves for developing language ... God should be tried for giving us brains ... nothing good has ever come from a computer ... and the telecom system only enables large-scale communication.

Fortunately, we're already taking care of Mother Nature. A couple more decades of pollution and she'll no longer be a nuisance.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Robert Ring (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 12:53pm

If they had orchestrated this through snail mail, I wonder if the council members would have sued the US Post Office.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Joshy, 18 Feb 2010 @ 12:56pm

Why not sue the Shoe companies for enabling the kids to get to the snowball fight
[ link to this | view in thread ]
jorge the spitting mad chimp, 18 Feb 2010 @ 12:58pm

not always so sunny in philly
i've always wondered what was wrong with that city - the butt of so many jokes for obviously good reasons. philly is financially destitute, politically bereft, and yet they throw iceballs at their quarterbacks, batteries at their pitchers and now they want to sue facebook, but why not comcast too? (that's the philly cable co) and while they're at it, maybe they could go after the credit card companies for financing everything from cigarettes to prostitutes.

oh, yeah, and it was my girlfriend's fault why i cheated on her too... figured if we were gonna go with specious reasoning i'd get that cleared up too.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
dwind (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 1:01pm

Why not god
for making the snow or at least the churches his direct representatives. How about the weatherman for telling them it was going to snow? And maybe the mall developer for putting a Macys directly in their path. The list is endless.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Adam (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 1:14pm

Question
What exactly is an "organized riot"? "Yes, it was an organized mob that caused regulated chaos!"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Celia, 18 Feb 2010 @ 1:31pm

Had the city of Philadelphia cleaned up the snow in a timely manner and sent all those kids back to school...perhaps this event could have been prevented!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Space Pirate, 18 Feb 2010 @ 1:50pm

Snow!
We should probably be suing the weather too, for having provided the ammunition.

Also - if I'm not mistaken the first ammendment affords us all the right to assemble (peacefully) so aside from the 'assualt' of snow using twitter or facebook or any other means to gather hardly seems like an offense of any sort.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
NAMELESS.ONE, 18 Feb 2010 @ 1:57pm

I wonder if facebook or the net wasn't around
WOULD these types a idiots still do stupid strange and awful stuff

YOU BET PEOPLE its not the technology its the people
SUE THE PEOPLE for acting like asses
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 18 Feb 2010 @ 2:00pm

Their family misses them
The two city council schmucks that are threatening to sue 18 kids need to go home and cook dinner for their kids and family.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 18 Feb 2010 @ 2:03pm

Re: Their family misses them
They're probably divorced. A few times. Paying child support.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Derek, 18 Feb 2010 @ 2:06pm

So... City council members think that the provider is responsible for what happens on the platform.

Interesting that a government official would want to set that precedent.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
TheDanimal (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 2:08pm

@Celia

Damnit! That’s what I was going to say....

But the point being, I'm surprised that this didn't happen in DC and Baltimore also, where the snow removal was such a problem...

But if anything or anyone deserves to be sued, its sub-atomic particles, people! Think about it! Everything used to organize and perpetrate this crime contains sub-atomic particles: the people, the snowballs, the computers, and the links between them. You could knock this whole thing out in one suit!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Russ (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 3:01pm

Monitoring
If the social networks need to be monitored, then that is a job for the police.

What? they don't have the time or tools or money or legal justification to do that? So let's sue a private company for not doing what the police can't do.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Phillip Vector (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 3:09pm

Re: Question
Yeah. That caught my eye as well.. Isn't an "Organized Riot" an oxymoron?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 18 Feb 2010 @ 3:19pm

I wonder why they're not suing the ISPs (including the local carriers) since the network traffic went over their lines.

Anyway, flash mobs are exactly protected under the US Constitution.

Some people partaking of their constitutionally protected right to assemble, ended up breaking existing laws. They were arrested, they'll be tried, and, if convicted, punished.

Politicians are *all* stupid, at least publicly. May as well give up reporting on it since we're all tired of reading about it. As the US political system goes down the tubes, taking the country with it...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 18 Feb 2010 @ 3:30pm

I did similar things as a kid using a CB radio. No one ever sued Motorola because we were being punk kids.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
CaptainRon, 18 Feb 2010 @ 3:30pm

Ima Fish comment
AWESOME! You cracked me up. Bravo for hitting the nail on the head. face-palming - I can just see it in my mind!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Alan Gerow (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 3:51pm

Re: Question
"What exactly is an "organized riot"?"

I would say "an army".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 18 Feb 2010 @ 4:33pm

Re: not always so sunny in philly
fuck off

signed
-philly
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DanVan (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 4:49pm

If facebook/twitter are used to get illegal crimes together, I have no problem with the police going after the sites

With a snowball fight? I don't see it
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 18 Feb 2010 @ 7:55pm

Re:
SEPTA provided transportation for this as well.

Being a Philadelphian in exile I can remember the police and the city government going ape shit over a few things- both MOVE confrontations are a good example. The second one ended with around three city blocks burned to the ground and I could see the fire light 30 blacks away.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The Buzz Saw (profile), 18 Feb 2010 @ 7:58pm

Huh?
Facebook? Twitter? They may as well sue the Internet. Email and a plethora of other services could have just as simply formed a mailing list to organize this horrific snowball assault.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
:), 18 Feb 2010 @ 11:06pm

Playing with words.
While [the kids] certainly owe this country[city] an apology and deserve to be punished under the fullest extent of the law, we believe that politicians[social media outlets] should also bear some of the blame." The letter, written by council members Frank DiCicco and James F. Kenney, explains that this is the second such time a band of mischievous teens has formed via governments[social media] and went on to destroy economies[property]. "We believe that the lack of monitoring of these sites allows for mass, organized riots to occur.

While [the kids] certainly owe this city an apology and deserve to be punished under the fullest extent of the law, we believe that social gatherings outlets should also bear some of the blame." The letter, written by council members Frank DiCicco and James F. Kenney, explains that this is the second such time a band of mischievous teens has formed via social gathering and went on to destroy property. "We believe that the lack of monitoring of these sites allows for mass, organized riots to occur.

There is a Obama, Bush, republican, democrat, government joke in there somewhere I know it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mr RC (profile), 19 Feb 2010 @ 1:55am

Re: Re:
30 BLACKS away?

*snort*

Was so funny I couldn't let it go!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
matt, 19 Feb 2010 @ 7:17am

China and Iran Would Agree
"We believe that the lack of monitoring of these sites allows for mass, organized riots to occur."

China, Iran and others totally agree with you, dude!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
jorge the spitting mad chimp, 19 Feb 2010 @ 10:00am

Re: Re: not always so sunny in philly
HA! more than happy to, welcome to yourself.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
mknowles, 19 Feb 2010 @ 11:17am

they should sue the phone companies too
because I'll be some of these folks spoke to each other on the phone.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Katie S., 13 May 2010 @ 12:50am

Re:
How would Facebook or Twitter monitor users to see if they're planning crimes? It would take unbelievable amounts of manpower to go through every message posted there (and it would be creepy from a privacy standpoint, though Facebook is rapidly proving it doesn't care about privacy anymore. . .)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
merizaa (profile), 18 May 2010 @ 11:26am

Kyle sent over yet another musician, named Nathan Harden, pulling out the "woe is me" schtick in an article claiming that this generation "killed rock 'n' roll." It hits on all the usual debunked points and only quotes industry sources on the major label side of the business, assumes that the only way to make money in the music business is by selling albums or songs, and doesn't even realize what a huge contradiction it makes in the process. It starts out by quoting record sales stats, but ignoring all of the recent studies that show that money hasn't gone away, it's just shifted to other SEO Consultant channels -- and those channels are ones where the actual artists get more money. It's true that the major record labels are making less -- no one denies that. But it's folly SEO Professionals to claim that this means the death of rock 'n' roll or music at all. Another recent study showed more music being Best Articles Directory released today than ever before in history. That doesn't sound like a dying industry at all. In fact, this guy effectively admits that when he complains.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
World Cup Merchandise, 17 Jun 2010 @ 4:23am

A fortune can visit this webpage ... Your information is very useful .... Soccer Shoes
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Kerala Tour Packages, 26 Aug 2010 @ 3:37am

Great
Really great article and comments..i really enjoyed..thanks Kerala Tourism Development Corporation
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Photography Courses Newcastle, 5 Sep 2010 @ 7:34am

I think the council need to get a grip of life!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Littlewoods, 6 Sep 2010 @ 11:40am

I dont think the council will be able to sue facebook or twitter.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Kerala Packages, 18 Sep 2010 @ 2:13pm

really usefull
really a fortune can visit this webpage ... Your information is very useful ..thanks Kerala Packages Kerala Honeymoon Packages Kerala Tour Packages From Pune Kerala Honeymoon Packages From Hyderabad
[ link to this | view in thread ]
seo company�, 4 Oct 2010 @ 10:52pm

http://www.smart-seo.co.uk/��
Twitter and face books are used by many of the social purpose where they spread the social working of the councils.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
David (profile), 7 Jan 2011 @ 1:27am

Well its all depends on you because what you think is not a matter for others. Our individual effort only works. Although its awesome. Cremation Jewelry
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Home Business, 7 Jan 2011 @ 9:31am

Re:
This is really interesting actually, its funny though and I agree with what you've said
[ link to this | view in thread ]
juan, 3 Feb 2011 @ 9:46pm

Well its all depends on you because what you think is not a matter for others. Our individual effort only works. Although its awesome. Cremation Jewelry como bajar de peso dietas para bajar de peso en una semana shed plans
[ link to this | view in thread ]
bjjbook, 24 Apr 2011 @ 10:03pm

Frank DiCicco and James F. Kenney, explains that this is the second such time a band of mischievous teens has formed via social gathering and went on to destroy property. "We believe that the lack of monitoring of these sites allows for mass, organized riots to occur. ran แรน
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Google directions, 7 Jun 2011 @ 6:52pm

nice
i love this post i really dont like social sites
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Barry, 16 Dec 2011 @ 4:18am

Hmmm
I wonder why they're not suing the ISPs (including the local carriers) since the network traffic went over their lines.

Anyway, flash mobs are exactly protected under the US Constitution.

Some people partaking of their constitutionally protected right to assemble, ended up breaking existing laws. They were arrested, they'll be tried, and, if convicted, punished.

Politicians are *all* stupid, at least publicly. May as well give up reporting on it since we're all tired of reading about it. As the US political system goes down the tubes, taking the country with it...
[ link to this | view in thread ]