Court Says Domain Name Is Located Where Its Registrar Registry Is Located
from the oh-really? dept
It's been nearly a decade since we first heard about John Zuccarini -- an internet character who made his name by registering a ton of typosquatting domain names, and was sued a bunch of times for it, but avoided dealing with things for a while by being impossible to find. And, even when he was found, he was notoriously vague in answering questions. From a bit of testimony from back in the day:Question: What is your current address?Eventually, the FTC ordered that thousands of his sites should be shut down. And then it fined Zuccarini $1.9 million. But, still no one could find him. A year and a half later, he was finally found and arrested leading to an eventual guilty plea. Of course, that didn't stop him. In 2007, he was fined yet again by the FTC, this time for typosquatting on domain names that kids were likely to visit -- and sending them to hardcore porn sites. Yeah. He's that kind of evil.
Zuccarini: 957 Bristol Pike, Apartment D-6, Andalusia, Pennsylvania, 19020.
Q: Is that where you currently reside?
Zuccarini: Not necessarily.
Q: Where do you currently reside?
Zuccarini: I don't have - that's my legal address. I really don't have a permanent address at this time.
Q: Where do you currently reside?
Zuccarini: Right now, I am staying at the Millennium Hotel in New York.
Q: When you are not in New York for a deposition, where do you live? Where have you lived in the past two weeks?
Zuccarini: I have been living in various places.
Q. What are the various places that you have been living?
Zuccarini: Friends' places. You know, that type of thing. Different hotels.
Q. 957 Bristol Pike is not your residence?
Zuccarini: No, it's not. It's my legal address. I have a lease on the apartment and that's where I have - some things are sent there which I get.
Q: Do you live in Pennsylvania?
Zuccarini: I don't know. I don't have a permanent address so I can live anywhere. I don't live anywhere right now. I can't give you a permanent address.
Anyway, going all the way back to a decade ago, when various companies were filing lawsuits against him, one such lawsuit involved Office Depot, which was none too pleased about Zuccarini's registration and use of offic-depot.com. Office Depot sued and won, but given Zuccarini's slippery nature, was unable to collect its judgment. Eventually, Office Depot handed over the judgment to a company called DS Holding, who then wanted to get paid. It eventually asked a court in Northern California to hand over some of Zuccarini's other domains to fulfill the judgment. The court agreed, but Zuccarini appealed, claiming that the court in California had no jurisdiction over his domain names.
Eric Goldman points us to the ruling in the case where the court finds that, indeed, domain names are considered property, and that jurisdiction should be based on where the
While the court does explain that this appears to be exactly what our anti-cybersquatting laws say when it comes to jurisdiction, that does lead to some other interesting legal questions when it comes to jurisdictions. It seems like it could be somewhat troubling if your domain is officially located wherever the registrar is in other types of cases, as suddenly anyone registering a domain name needs to take into account the location of the registrar in case of a lawsuit.
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Filed Under: domain name, john zuccarini, location
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Wire Fraud
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personally i believe this to be good thing, but Mike id love to hear for an alternative solution that is better
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Re:
I can give you the simplest answer of them all. TAXES is the problem.
If you have an E-Commerce site such as E-Bay, and your Registrar happens to be in lets say California, then you will be required to pay California STATE Taxes no matter WHERE your physical company resides...
This would be the first of MANY issues I could see coming into play with this type of thing
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Re: Re:
So taxed revenue from a website would be a different issue, considering the location of the actual web host, location of the individual's merchant account, location of the individual, etc.
There are some issues though. What if CA passes a stupid law making domains YOU own illegal? If your domains are registered with a CA registrar, you'd suddenly need to transfer.
To avoid that, does that mean it would be safest to just use foreign registrars? Do we really want everyone jumping to foreign registrars just to avoid this?
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Re:
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There's some sick logic for this...
This appears to be some kind of sick behavior but I can understand why he does this. And realising this just makes me want to puke. Sites that are likely visited by children are also visited by adults with a certain sexual preference towards children. These are probably the visitors that he's targeting with his cybersquatting. He's not interested in the real kids but in the sick guys on the Internet who are looking for childporn and other nasty stuff. These sicko's might be interested in the porn he offers, although -if I understood correctly- the porn by Zuccarini is adults only. Still, he's luring sexual perverts to his sites and it seems to make a profit for him.
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Re: There's some sick logic for this...
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Re: Re: There's some sick logic for this...
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IP confusion gets better everyday
I thought it was a trademark issue.
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Must take location seriously
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ooops
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On the other hand...
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haha suckers im in canada
WONDER how Americans think about me offing a few copyright guru's and getting life in prison rather then the chair
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The decision is based on the fact that Verisign is the REGISTY, not the REGISTRAR
with registries on behalf of those who own the names. Registrars maintain an ownership record for each domain name
they have registered with a registry. Action by a registrar is needed to transfer ownership of a domain name from one registrant to another. Third, individuals and companies called "registrants" own the domain names. Registrants interact with the registrars, who in turn interact with the registries.
Verisign is a registry, not a registrar. The court held that under California law that domain names are located where the registry is located for the purpose of asserting quasi in rem jurisdiction. Accordingly, the the Northern District of California could assert jurisdiction over the domain names becuase Verisign was located within the District. While the court also included in dicta that it saw no reason why for that purpose domain names are not also located where the relevant registrar is located, this was not relevant to the decision.
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Re: The decision is based on the fact that Verisign is the REGISTY, not the REGISTRAR
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Legal Address
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Re: Legal Address
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Registrar vs Registry
"we conclude under California law that domain names are located where the registry is located for the purpose of asserting quasi in rem jurisdiction. Although the question is not directly before us, we add that we see no reason why for that purpose domain names are not also located where the relevant registrar is located"
Please note my point is that the registrar (godaddy as an example) is different than the registry (verisign as an expample) and the court was trying to determine which jurisdiction to use. Registry and registrar are often confused
Your quote :
"Eric Goldman points us to the ruling in the case where the court finds that, indeed, domain names are considered property, and that jurisdiction should be based on where the registrar of that domain is located (pdf) rather than wherever John Zuccarini may be hiding at the moment. Since, in this case, the registrar was VeriSign, and VeriSign is in Northern California... the court was ruled to be the proper jurisdiction."
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Re: Registrar vs Registry
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mike masnick is a douchebag hypocrite
i posted something pointing out how you're wrong because you have no idea what all the types of jurisdiction entail (personal jurisdiction, subject matter jurisdiction, multiple in rem jurisdictions, diversity jurisdiction, choice of forum/venue clauses, and forum nonconveniens), and you don't approve my comment meanwhile you approved other AC comments with timestamps after mine? here you are trying to act like an authority on the matter when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. you're the guy who admittedly can only see a tiny part of the picture and you're bitching and complaining that things are "troubling." so you silence the guy who points out that you're wrong?
and more ironically, you constantly bitch about censorship (hell, you bitch about censorship in the post RIGHT AFTER this). when someone questions your sensationalist garbage, you censor them? congratulations, you're a hypocrite.
censor this message if you want. or don't. i don't care. i'm not coming back. now that you're monitoring everything i will know that you have read it, and the fact that i know that you have no integrity whatsoever is enough for me.
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Re: mike masnick is a douchebag hypocrite
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Re: mike masnick is a douchebag hypocrite
Nope. This is not true. We did not censor any comments at all. If you are who I think you are, you submitted a *blank* comment last night, which the system held as spam. Since there was no content, we didn't approve it.
But we have not blocked you from commenting at all.
I believe what happened is that when you went to click the submit button on the comment, you accidentally hit the "submit" button for the comment window beneath the one you wrote it (this is something we need to fix). People replying to comments near the bottom sometimes get confused. The popup box for the "reply" sometimes goes over the open comment form at the bottom, so the two submit buttons appear near each other, and people will sometimes hit the wrong submit button.
But, again, we are not "censoring" you or pre approving your comments specifically.
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1 bad apple can spoil an industry
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There is a prior opine that domain names are not property
Link: http://www.gtlaw.com/NewsEvents/Publications/PublishedArticles?find=83310
excerpt (year 2000):
In Network Solutions Inc. v. Umbro International Inc., decided on April 21, Umbro sought to garnish several domain names owned by another company in order to collect money that was owed to Umbro. Umbro filed a garnishment action against Network Solutions, Inc., the company that registers Internet domain names. Umbro tried to have Network Solutions turn over the domain names so that the name could be sold to the highest bidder to satisfy the amount owed. The lower court ruled that domain names were a type of intangible property that could be "garnished" and sold to satisfy the amount owed under Virginia’s garnishment statute.
The Virginia Supreme Court reversed the lower court, ruling that the rights in a domain name were so intertwined with the services performed by Network Solutions registering the domain name, that a domain name instead represented a contract for services, rather than intellectual property. The Court concluded that since the domain name was merely a contract for services, it was not subject to seizure and court ordered sale under Virginia’s garnishment statute.
So it is in Virginia, but it's still prior precedent. Of course the standard IANAL applies.
I couldn't care less about some sleazy person, but the tax ramifications do matter. (along with several other aspects of what is or is not 'property').
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A can of worms on wheels
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Re: A can of worms on wheels
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