Netflix, Warner Bros., Sued In Class Action Lawsuit Over Delayed Movie Window
from the pissing-off-customers-left-and-right dept
Warner Bros. has been busy getting both Netflix and Redbox to agree to delay renting new release DVDs for 28 days, in the misguided belief that this will get more people to buy the DVDs. While Netflix has tried to spin this as benefiting customers it appears plenty of customers see otherwise. Specifically, at least one customer has filed a class action lawsuit against both Warner Bros. and Netflix, alleging that this is restraint of trade and has decreased the value of a Netflix subscription (thanks to Eric for sending this over). It seems unlikely that this lawsuit will get very far, but it certainly suggests that at least some Netflix customers are none too pleased with this move, despite Netflix's claims.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: class action, delays, movies, rentals, windows
Companies: netflix, warner bros.
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Of course the sponsor wants the biggest piece, because they're paying for it.
It just doesn't make sense that the manufacturers of the ingredients want the baker to wait another month before baking that new recipe, so people can go out and bake it for themselves first and buy the ingredients directly from the producer.
Sadly I have three pies that have been sitting on my desk waiting to be eaten for the past week. I may not need the baker anymore, because my neighbor leaves pies on his window all the time.
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Re: class action lawsuits
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I guess I always just assumed lawyers got paid, but the 'class' part meant that returns for so many suit members would always be small.
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Get real!
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Get real!
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Just because it's a dumb business move doesn't mean it's illegal. That's the point we were making. This lawsuit doesn't have much of a chance. Why root for a bogus lawsuit that will almost certainly fail?
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saying that there is no reason to support something simply because its going to fail, while easier to do, is not always the right thing to do. and thats what MarksAngel is saying here.
Take a moment to think about all the things that were so much easier to just not care about, but changed because some small group of people decided they were going to stand up and do whats RIGHT... not whats easy.
If you start taking the approach of least resistance every time you go up against something, you are never going to make ANY headway ANYWHERE.
you of all people should know this and should be supporting this lawsuit 100% even if you think it will fail.
...especially if you think it will fail...
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Why pick this battle, when it will almost certainly fail, and will do nothing to change the status quo either way - and could badly backfire on consumers (e.g. Warners lose so decide to withdraw their entire catalogue from streaming - nobody can force them to offer their catalogue to Netflix, only to play fair with it).
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Take a moment to think about all the things that were so much easier to just not care about, but changed because some small group of people decided they were going to stand up and do whats RIGHT... not whats easy.
Hey I'm all for a small group trying to change things that are wrong. But I don't think that's what this lawsuit will do. If that was the goal, there are much more effective ways of making that point.
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> lawsuit 100% even if you think it will fail
He's not declining to suport it because he thinks it will fail. He's declining to support it because what they're doing isn't illegal. Why on earth would you want to support a cause of action that can only succeed if the government basically ignores the law and does whatever it wants, to include taking over the decision-making authority of these two companies.
You may not like it-- and the companies may ultimately regret doing it-- but these DVDs are *their* property and *their* product and they can release them for sale however they like. It's certainly not the proper place of government or the courts to step in and tell them when and how they must sell their movies.
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Completely, utterly and categorically WRONG. First Sale doctrine covers this, and yes, it IS enforcable by the govt. These laws exist to PROTECT consumers FROM the very thing you are suggesting is a company's "right." Its not. Selling a retail product does NOT give you rights thereafter to control what is done with it (outside of things like copyright protection, but thats not the argument here, since they are legally PURCHASING their copies, and not making duplicates).
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This is from Netflix's website:
"Changes to Terms of Use
Netflix, Inc., reserves the right, from time to time, with or without notice to you, to change these Terms of Use in our sole and absolute discretion. The most current version of these Terms of Use can be reviewed by clicking on the "Terms of Use" located at the bottom of the pages of the Netflix website. The most current version of the Terms of Use will supersede all previous versions. You can see changes from previous versions of the Terms of Use by clicking here."
It's the 2nd paragraph in their terms of service agreement that ALL people have to agree to in order to get their service.
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Please allow me to clarify: "two wrongs don't make a right."
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The guy deserves an award and at minimum an email with contact points for EFF, Berkham CIS, Stanford CIS, Public Knowledge.
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Netflix has Movies?
If a movie is something I REALLY want to see I just go to the theater and watch it.
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Re: Netflix has Movies?
New DVD releases.
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Re: Netflix has Movies?
Putting a delay on new releases will NOT increase sales. This is as stupid as taking music away from sites like Last.fm. Restrictions will NOT increase sales I repeat will NOT increase sales.
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But they like it!
Netflix: Our customers actually like to have their movies delayed. In fact, the longer the delay, the better they like it!
Customer: Here you go. I hope you like this lawsuit as much as we like the delays.
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Who cares?
Bogus lawsuit, bogus issue.
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make sure they mention
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A question for Mike.
I would like to know how the deal forced by Warner Bros. isn't illegal.
Basically, it comes down to one company telling another it has no right to rent titles the second company legally bought.
I can't say for sure, but I do believe this action is illegal.
If the prosecuting attorney does a good job, the case may even point this issue out. It may not win, but maybe there could be a precedent set in which gets others to look into the practices Warner Bros. is doing.
Because I can assure you it won't be long before Universal and other studios do the same thing. Then what?
People rent because they don't want to buy. 28 day delay or not, the fact their choice is being removed should be illegal if it isn't.
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Re: A question for Mike.
It's actually not illegal, the Movies that NetFlix Rent aren't the same as the ones available for retail. And a Video store cannot LEGALLY purchase a movie from wal-mart and take it back to the store and rent it either.
The movies that are in Rental Stores are actually purchased for much more than retail, and then rented for a period of time and sold far below retail.
At least this was the way it worked in the VHS days, and I assume the same contracts are in place under DVD's as well.
As far as the movie houses making them available 30 days later for rental, that's their business, and their right to do. The only thing that can LEGALLY be done that will accomplish anything is to stop renting their products, and the rental stores will stop purchasing them, and then they will re-evaluate the cost/benefit of their actions.
Oh of course if your little mikee m, you can write a bunch of articles complaining about the companies choices of what they do with their products too....
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First sale rule says you're wrong. You absolutely can buy a video at Wal-Mart and then rent it.
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All the videos you buy retail in Australia have notices at the beginning that state it cannot be rented out or shown in public (or something to that effect).
And on the 1 month delay thing, that is nothing. Australia tends to get a 3-6 months delay to see movies in the cinemas (for all but the biggest of movies).
It sucks seeing DVDs on sale online before movies even make to Australia.
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Just because they say that doesn't mean copyright law actually allows it. Media companies are really fond of claiming rights they don't actually have. With that said, I am not at all familiar with Australian copyright law, and it's possible they can legally claim the right you mention. In the US, that claim would be false.
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" I assume the same contracts are in place under DVD's as well."
The two statements you made are two different animals. One is Criminal one is Civil. Your first statement is so wrong because anyone can go to wal-mart buy a DVD and rent it to anyone. You could probably get away with renting via streaming if you created a box that didnt violate the DRM section of the DMCA.
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Re: A question for Mike.
Depends on "forced." A deal negotiated by two willing parties is fine.
Where I think there may be an anti-trust issue is in the cases where the movie studio told Wal-Mart and Best Buy not to sell to Redbox. But I believe only one or two studios did that (and I'm not sure if Warner was one of them).
But if Netflix and WB just agree on their own to delay movies, that's a different issue and not illegal. It may be dumb, and it may be bad business... but not antitrust.
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Re: Re: A question for Mike.
Even if such negotiations have a probability of being coerced regardless of anti-trust?
Sorry, I guess I'll stop here. Going well beyond the scope of the article at hand. I just wish consumers would wise up, rather than sue parties who may not have had a choice but to deal.
Oh, and sorry about the "prosecuting attorney" usage. I couldn't recall what title lawyers who bring charges in civil court were called.
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Re: A question for Mike.
There is no prosecuting attorney here. This isn't a criminal case. It's a civil suit.
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Re: A question for Mike.
> the fact their choice is being removed should be illegal if it isn't.
You seem to think that just because people want something, they should be able to have it, and if anything stands in their way, it should be outlawed.
These DVDs are *their* property and *their* product and the studios can release them for sale however they like. If they don't listen to their customers, they may not make much money, but it's still *their* right to sell them whenever they please. It's certainly not the proper place of government or the courts to step in and tell them when and how they must sell their movies.
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Megalomania for one customer only.
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Re: Megalomania for one customer only.
That isn't what the person to whom I was responding said. They said that "eople rent because they don't want to buy. 28 day delay or not, the fact their choice is being removed should be illegal if it isn't."
That's not criticism of coercing third-party transactions. That's saying, "I want it now and you can't stop me!"
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I'm joining his class
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Exec1 "Hmm, we only made a few billion dollars off this record setting box office season, we really need to push our bottom line!"
Exec2 "Wait, I know!!! Lets make our movies cost more and make them harder to purchase legally by making people wait an extra month!"
Exec1 "Brilliant! Someone give this man a promotion, ohh yeah and giant cash bonuses and company cars for everyone!"
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Theses works aren't oiginals
Most are all representation of gods from cultures that have contacts together and theses cultures was really static by today standard. Theses arts was usualy done by artists that travel and want to show to the local population what they see abroad, it's the web media of that time.
Most of theses scultures are representation of the same known arts school that want to show the body mouvement like all the greek Venus and Soldier in this movie.
Show me the link between Cubism, Surealism, Pointilism, Popart and thing that come before and them it's will be interresting.
The movie was very good entertainment.
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Someone should give this guy an award ....
Who do we contact to get him really good legal counsel?
Would EFF, Berkham, CDT, CIS at stanford be interested in helping out?
If we cant get free legal we can try this ...
Who do we contact that would make money if this suit actually succeeds? (can get them to fund this suit?)
Think outside the box ... GRIN
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wb dvd netflix release restriction
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If you didn't see this coming...
I place movies in my queue when they are available. Often, with a very popular movie, I have to wait my turn. If I HAVE to see a movie earlier than available on NetFlix, then I go to the theater. If I miss it there, I can always find it online.
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Options
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how
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netflix ships more older movies than the latest releases
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If they would just focus on better material, and making better movies they would get the money in the theatres and if people loved it they would buy a copy for themselves. This way both income generating business models would be satisfied.
I do agree that they have no business on influencing Redbox or Netflix (as stated earlier by someone as 3rd party). If this were the case it would have to include rental stores like Blockbuster and any others, and that is just ridiculous. I wonder what research shows for Blockbuster as I think they offer sales of new releases as well as rentals.
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