UK Testing Speed Cameras From Space? Not Exactly, But Still Troubling
from the big-brother-phone-home dept
Reader btr1701 submitted this story about the UK testing speed cameras that "trap motorists from space." Although the Telegraph article conjures up images of Big Brother spying on drivers from satellites, the facts are (somewhat) less sinister. The system essentially combines license plate recognition with GPS, taking advantage of the GPS to make the cameras more portable and easy to deploy.As we've discussed before, plate capture technology has been shown to be abused in the UK, so any system that further proliferates the use of these cameras is cause for concern. After all, the main benefit of this new system is that it allows a camera to be quickly deployed virtually anywhere. As a result, those looking to avoid known camera installations will have a harder time, once these become more commonplace. So, while this is not a full blown "Big Brother in space" implementation, it does exacerbate an already troubling situation.
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Filed Under: speed cameras, united kingdom
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Reasonable limits
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Re: Reasonable limits
Someone in a more nimble car with great breaks and plenty of alternate route windows who knows the road well may be able to safely do 75-80 mph. At the same time even the most professional trucker with a loaded rig probably can't do more than 70 mph safely, and they'd have to have even more free space or highly predictable traffic around them.
Then there are adverse conditions; dense traffic, high winds, dust storms, mirror-like water after a rainstorm with bright sun, even black ice.
As a driver I feel that there should only be 'speed advisories' which tell what the lowest-common consumer denominator car should be able to safely do; and maybe in cases where there is some inherent limit due to blind corners or other design failures a literal speed /limit/ above which the driver could not safely know about future conditions in time to react (say 3-4 seconds).
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Re: Re: Reasonable limits
This is pure money-grab, plain and simple. On my street entrance there's a sign of 30kmph (sic!). Some people are able to run faster.
"speed advisories" is good idea, and another word for it is "common sense".
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Speed cameras from space
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Re: Speed cameras from space
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Re: Speed cameras from space
Lert me re-phrase that...
If you are so pompous, lacking in imagination and confident of your own ability to concentrate that you don't believe you will ever fall foul of this system them it won't worry you.
Until, that is, you get a ticket.
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Re: Re: Speed cameras from space
If everyone obeyed every law starting today (btw it is debatable as to whether this is possible) then the government would face severe budget issues. This implies there is a conflict of interest. (duh) Speed limits are not there for your safety as claimed by many, they are inplace to generate revenue.
btw, "Speed Cameras from Space" would be a good title for a B movie.
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Re:
In the UK, they are talking about covering an entire area, which brings in unprecedented offical 'nosing' into your whereabouts at any particular time, with all the potential (actuality?) for abuse we expect from our State. Another issue is how visible these cameras are, as the current ones are mandated to be visible and labelled as such, and if these are covering a large area, that may not be so easy to do. Plus, how long with they hold the number plates for? Shouldn't be more than a couple of hours even for a large zone.
Still, IF they can be show to actually help, and not be abused (long-term storage of numberplates for instance) then they can help with safety. For instance, on the A77 north of Ayr, traffic accidents are way down because of a reduction of speed from 70 to 50 mph, as well as longer-term use of 'vultures'.
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Re:
Breaking News:
Couple robs bank, makes off with untold treasure. Film at eleven.
response from the AC:
people have been doing that for like evar! Totally a non-story.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re:
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This Article
This sort of thing is just like being watched form a machine gun tower.
Road abusers should be caught and punished, but we are getting to an alarming stage-----all drivers make mistakes, but this sort of thing will not allow for that.
It seems one is a potential criminal for just being a motorist.
Seig Heil!
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Global Enslavement
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First Amendment?
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More money wasted
Me-thinks if they cannot get that bit right then what hope of the new space tracking & speed testing working out.
Also it is law that enforcment services notify you of speed check & camera areas: So what they gonna do about space based tracking - paint a massive sign in the sky saying 'Speed Camera Zone'.
Its time our (UK) government started spending our cash on things like fixing our dam economy & getting the price of fuel down.
Lets face it who can afford to speed with the current 121p per ltr prices?!?!?!?!.
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Re: More money wasted
You could at least read the article where it says "the facts are (somewhat) less sinister" and it's just using GPS.
Idiot.
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Re: Re: More money wasted
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Re: Re: More money wasted
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So while lfroen's road may be 30... that is the standard speed for all residential area's in the whole of the UK. It has been for years and it is likely to always be.
I got caught doing 40 in a 30 zone recently... by a mobile camera... Whatever the rights and wrongs of mobile camrea's are detracts from the point. I was speeding in an area I knew the limit in.
There is also a myth that drivers make "mistakes" by speeding. Many drivers in the UK are caught close to home on routes they travel each and every day... If you ignore the limits you have no complaint.
Often the people complaining about limits and camera's to enforce them are the same people who then complain that drivers drive too fast when a child gets hit... and call for more enforcement of limits. Its as if somehow limits should apply to everyone else but them
Here is a radical idea, if you are THAT convinced that they are just a revenue stream and nothing to do with safety and THAT committed to not being caught by them... stay to the limit rather than deliberately breaking it (there are usually regular signs even if you do not know the road) and then complaining that you got caught however it is you may have got caught.
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speed cameras from space
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Re: speed cameras from space
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Still not a substitute for proper traffic officers with the training and (hopefully) the good sense to make a judgement call on a proportionate response, though.
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NEW GPS SPEED TRACKING CAMERAS FROM SPACE
There must be a line that is being crossed because this is showing that the government is ignoring our privacy and right to live in peace.
it is enough to know that when you go out around town that you are being watche 24/7 by multiple cctv cameras and now we are being watched on the roads too.
why waste money on tracking everyones movements from space when the government could put the money they invested in this into a proper project like building more houses for the homeless an needy.
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Threatening...
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Re: Threatening...
- erratic driving
- close following
- illegal lane changes
- distracted drivers
- sleepy drivers
- too slow drivers
- slow mergers
But those are harder for cameras and radar tools to enforce, and don't provide the revenue.
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In Response to More Money Wasted,
"So what they gonna do about space based tracking - paint a massive sign in the sky saying 'Speed Camera Zone'."
You could at least read the article where it says "the facts are (somewhat) less sinister" and it's just using GPS.
Idiot.
TROLL ALERT
hmm.... listen to the comment troll
My point is that they can track your speed anywhere (Obvious) - So they must by law notify us. So I was being sarcastic. GPS uses space based sat nav you IDIOT!, or do you have a magical gps system which just knows where it is. Don't add in cell tracking as the whole of the UK is not covered by this.
So stick to the subject & troll off somewhere else you where your views are relevant to the subject... dumba**!
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Speed Limits Need To Be More Consistent.
Speed limits in towns and cities need to be more consistent. The speed limit on all housing estates and near schools should be 20mph. Without exception. A two lane single carriage way main road should be 30mph. Two lane dual carriage ways should be 40mph. All motorway style dual carriage ways should be treated as motorways.
What we have now is a situation where a driver can drive a 40mph on a 2 lane dual carriage way at some parts and then 30mph on other parts. Which just happen to have a speed camera. The whole road network in the UK is a total mess.
Take yellow hatched boxes. You're not supposed to enter them unless your exit is clear. Unless of course you're turning right. Just what is the point of that?
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Re: Speed Limits Need To Be More Consistent.
Yeah, but should we really be basing road policy on the advice of Alcoholics Anonymous? I mean, I know they're trying to get off the booze, but it feels risky. Call it a trust issue.
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Sweden
Last year there was a proposal about calculating how fast a car was travelling between 2 cameras, but this they decided this was to much violation on your integrity.
Ps. someone talked about different limits depending on weather etc, they have been doing tests with just that. The problem was that the signs were very buggy at the time. Ds
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Proof
In the US they are starting to use tiny UAV aircraft to enforce time over distance speeding tickets, with a photo as proof. They can be easily beat in court with the argument, my car but not me. Same thing with red light cameras, my car yes, but not me. Unless of course your stupid enough to look at the camera because of the pre-flash and get a nice mug shot as you run the red light.
In overview of the whole issue, this is just another attempted fix to a system that doesn't need more fixes, it needs solutions, real...effective...solutions.
When you have to make a bigger umbrella to stop from getting rained on, obviously there is a problem with the rain not the umbrella.
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Re: Proof
They get around this by changing the law and decriminalizing the offense and making it a mere administrative violation. In a criminal case, the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the individual committed the offense. With an administrative fine, they just hold the registered owner of the car responsible for the ticket no matter who was driving. Since there's no criminal penalty, there's no requirement to prove the offense against the individual.
The trade-off is that since it's no longer a criminal offense, they can no longer put points on your license, issue arrest warrants for failure to appear in court, or turn the information over to your insurance company to raise your rates. The only thing they can do if you fail to pay is bar you from re-registering your car when it expires and/or turn it over to a collection agency as a bad debt (which could affect your credit rating).
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Wouldn't it be cheaper to just tag the people?
I know some of you are probably thinking, about the passengers. Well just like those bastions of self control (the Chinese gov., the RIAA, MPAA, BIAA, etc.) introducing secondary liability would be a 'wonderful thing'. The passengers would be 'encouraged' to make sure the driver isn't speeding so that they don't get a ticket.
I mean isn't this what all the cctv cameras and auto plate recognition systems, GPS etc. are leading to?
Just like the great British National ID Card, it will be 'entirely optional' initially. It will only be mandatory for those working with 'vulnerable populations' and those pesky foreigners of course....
It seems that government believes it's purpose is to secure the persons, privileges, and wealth of the moneyed elite. What better to way to achieve that goal than to have the common man go about his day in fear of everywhere he goes, everything he does, and best of all anything he's thinking about.
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painted a big ass on roof of car
not really visible except from space :P
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