Students Who Caught Gym Teacher Stealing Money From Lockers May Get Punished
from the that-doesn't-seem-right... dept
A few years back, we had a story about some students using a mobile phone camera to record a teacher's outburst on film. Rather than disciplining the teacher who appeared way out of line, and who had pulled a chair out from under a student, the school disciplined the students for filming the teacher. In what may be a similar situation, reader Pickle Monger alerts us to the story of some students who got upset about money regularly disappearing from their lockers. After complaining to school officials and getting no help at all, they set up a mobile phone camera to record what happened to the lockers... and actually caught their gym teacher breaking into the lockers to steal the students' money.So how is the school reacting? Celebrating the ingenuity and the sleuthing skills of the kids in catching a bad teacher stealing money from students? Nope:
A school spokesman said it's possible the student who recorded the cell phone video could get in trouble as well because students are not supposed to use their phones during the day.Now, obviously the situation is a little more complicated due to the privacy issues in a locker room, but there's no indication that there were any privacy problems here at all. The whole purpose was to catch the thief that the school wouldn't catch. Punishing students for breaking those rules, while ignoring the reasons why they did it, teaches a really bad lesson to students.
School officials said they are not allowed to record video in locker rooms because of privacy.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: mobile cameras, school, spying
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
And it's all Obama's fault, too! (You left out that part)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Deja Vu
Welcome to the world children.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Deja Vu
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Deja Vu
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Deja Vu
That was one of the best lessons I learned in school.
Welcome to the world children.
Yep. And remember, don't point out that the Emperor has no clothes, either, if you don't want to be punished for it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The power of the internet is great my friend.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
They often stick together, like cops do, and develop an "us against them" mentality concerning school staff versus the students.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Dark Helmet, checking in from vacation in Napa Valley (Drunk) and heading to San Fransisco. Mike, if you have any restaurant recommendations, now is the time....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Hopefully you're not driving.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
French Laundry
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
This is from Florida, judging by website that is doing the reporting. The other one is Lower Merion, on the main line right outside of Philadelphia.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
But in Pennsylvania the school is allowed to record you in your privacy in your own home without your knowledge???
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Privacy should rule the day
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Privacy should rule the day
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
What the kid's are learning is consistency and equal treatment of the rules and accepting the consequences of their actions. They should be seeing it in two ways; they get punished and the teacher gets let go.
They should also be learning that sometimes doing the right thing doesn't mean getting a reward.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
"the student who recorded the cell phone video could get in trouble as well"
From the sounds of that, the teacher is getting into trouble for it. The school administrators should also get disciplined because they ignored a serious problem.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
Remember, the rules set down by the powerful are more important than those silly notions of good and morality.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
Try as you might, AC, you cannot develop rules that will consistently line up with everyone's individual concepts of "good", or any other moral and entirely subjective constructs.
If the rules aren't enforced consistently and equally they lose their value. As a potential example; if these kids were not punished, a potential and likely lesson to them would be that it's possible to avoid the consequences of the rules if they can merely come up with a good enough excuse when caught. On the other hand, if the kids know the rules will be enforced even if they DID have a "moral reason" then they will be more likely to save such exploits for those occasions exclusively.
And that gets to what the rules are really about, not morality, but order. They are, in their ever evolving (and sometimes questionable) state, the best middle-ground we have for a system to try to allow our infinite number of perspectives to attempt to live and cooperate together.
The different levels of consequences that can be applied for breaking the rules is the design where we get to recognize and react to the difference between these kids looking for a thief and if someone set up a camera specifically to invade student's privacy.
I'm really starting to ramble, I could go on and on about this. Suffices to say you're an idiot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
Rules are a means to an end. That's it. Specific rules are created, set in place and enforced to achieve a goal. The purpose of the rules is to clear away ambiguity about what may or may not hinder that end goal, otherwise everything in the world would be as simple as "don't do bad things".
In this instance, the rule about "no cameras or recording devices in locker rooms" is to maintain privacy. Even though the rule was violated in this circumstance, the end result was the protection of personal privacy for the students, as well as the protection of their personal items.
Punishing the students in any way, even if it's a simple "don't take pictures", does not further the goal, it only protects the rule.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
Punishing the students in any way, even if it's a simple "don't take pictures", does not further the goal, it only protects the rule."
Exactly, because, as you said, everything in the world is not simple as "don't do bad things". Enforcing the rule predictably and continuously sets the standard that there's no wiggle room to avoid the rule. THAT protects privacy, by protecting the rule protecting privacy. When the ends justify the means and individual moral compasses outweigh the agreed upon rules, then you don't have "rules" anymore, you have "guidelines" and good luck with that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
The only thing you're arguing here is the "slippery slope" fallacy, that somehow one exception will lead to video tapes of naked children.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
In the Texas community I grew up in, reporting wrongdoings by certain people was a very good way to wind up in prison (or worse) yourself. The social expectation was that you would not do such reporting.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
"Society" is not a school administrator.
And that gets to what the rules are really about, not morality, but order.
Now get in the back of the bus and shut up, eh? Yeah, I know your type.
I'm really starting to ramble, I could go on and on about this.
And I imagine you do all the time.
Suffices to say you're an idiot.
It suffices to say that you're a fascist. But we could all see that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
What are you, some kind of Obama socialist? America is based on capitalist values, and that means that "the right thing" is determined by one thing: profit. Ask any Ferengi to explain it to you.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Privacy should rule the day
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
I can just imagine what might have happened if they had planted one of those exploding dye packs in a locker. The police would have classified it as a "terrorist bombing event" and closed down the whole school and the feds would have hauled off the students involved to some federal "facility". A little water-boarding then could probably get them to confess to being "terrorists". And of course it would be the Internet that would then be blamed for turning what used to be "good kids" into bomb planting "terrorists".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Privacy should rule the day
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Now wait a minute...
I have been teaching for 7 years now and I can guarantee you in my (normal) district that guy would be fired ASAP, and the union would not touch him with a 10' pole! This has probably happened numerous times around the country, but rightfully-fired bad teacher is not nearly as interesting a headline...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Now wait a minute...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Now wait a minute...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Now wait a minute...
Are you sure that's how you want it?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It's not a good lesson to teach: The end justifies the means.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The teacher should be fired and found guilty of criminal charges.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Here in NY and NJ, they routinely set up traffic stops to catch people drinking, speeding what ever. I always get pulled over and searched. I don't drink, I drive fairly normal, so you figure out why I get stopped. I bet you if you think hard enough you'll get it. But that's OK it only goes against the constitution and bill of rights.
the end doesn't justify the means!! yeah right! it depends on which end and whos means!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
That may be the case for you, but some parents have been known to tell their kids "don't get out of bed" and then set the house on fire.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: The end does not justify the means
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: The end does not justify the means
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Seems to me that it's a good lesson for students to learn: laws aren't meant to ensure justice, just order. That will be useful for them to remember as they enter the real world.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Cue the lawsuit
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
home schooling
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: home schooling
Which is sad for the perfectly normal families that choose to homeschool because of the appalling educational choices offered locally.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: home schooling
Where are those kids supposed to learn about the important things in life, like football and jocks and cheerleaders and pecking orders?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: home schooling
But, in case you were seriously asking about socialization, homeschoolers apparently have it better. :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anyone know a good lawyer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Power corrupts.
Bureaucrats care more about protecting their own than administering justice.
A healthy disrespect for authority figures.
Kids who go through childhood sheltered from reality get a real shock when they enter their careers and find out how awful people are. The people who lie, cheat, and bribe get what they want, while the honest ones are left with nothing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
That's why they call it "the rat race", because the "rats" keep winning.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Got Bad School Personnel
The mighty United States justice system. $75.00 for filing fees and you have leverage. People are so afraid of getting screwed in the United States Justice System that they rush to settle out of court. Voila! Problem solved. But that is another article isn't it?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Got Bad School Personnel
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Got Bad School Personnel
No, you just keep doing what they want. And then, when they're gotten what they want - what you think you want because they tell you it's what you want - and something happens to you, you'll try to sue and you won't be able to. On that day, you can come to me, begging for me to help you.
I'll laugh at you and slam the door.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Got Bad School Personnel
Oxymoron much?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This is a tricky one.
Letting the kids off would show it's okay to break the rules to catch a criminal. Although, punishing them could make them less likely to blow the whistle (so to speak).
I keep thinking about the US wiretapping in all this: if the illegal wiretapping caught an actual criminal, would people still be against it? Or should that criminal go free cause the wiretapping was illegal? Hard choices! Stupid gray areas.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This is a tricky one.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This is a tricky one.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
You can think of it this way.
What would you say if it was that teacher setting up the video camera in the locker room.
Or how about this scenario: make it a male teacher and the female locker room.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Any large organization will not give any weight to peoples' rights if the people fail to use them - it's a sad reality of the world that you have to demonstrate your power against them (i.e. sue them) in order to get some basic respect.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
what a bunch of crap!
Yes the school could say the student went against rules, but so did the teacher! The students in my opinion had every right to protect their stuff, and cash. No school system has the right to make a student more vulnerable. If they fail the students, then the students have every right to step up.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: what a bunch of crap!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
screw the school board....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Privacy
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Privacy
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Privacy
I think he was responding to the story at the top of the page.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Privacy
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Privacy
Nor did he say they did. Perhaps we should be asking to whom YOU were responding.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Camera phones are allowed but they won't steal your money anyway.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Arrested!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
News and blurry video at 11!
Surprisingly, he wouldn't answer the news team when they knocked on his door for an interview. He was arrested and is now out on $200,000 bail according to the story.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: News and blurry video at 11!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: News and blurry video at 11!
I wonder if he was bailed out by the school district.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Double Standard
I would tell the kids to go right to the police and have the teacher arrested now that they have proof. If the school is not going to do anything about it, force the issue. And if the police refuse then go to the DA and then the newspapers. Make a big public stink out of it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
See!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: See!!!
Besides, how skilled do you have to be to coach?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: See!!!
"Very", it would seem, as they tend to be paid more than any of the other teachers. (often even more than the principal)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: See!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: See!!!
Maybe not for you, but for most people it does.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: See!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: See!!!
Yes. Do you? And if so, do you work for the government? I don't, which is why competency actually matters to my employer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: See!!!
For instance, a brand new college graduate in an IT field versus a fifteen year veteran of the same field. Who gets paid more? The graduate.
A brand new RN-BSN versus a ten year veteran RN. Who gets paid more? The RN-BSN.
A brand-new doctor or an experienced nurse practitioner?
A child care worker on her first day at work or a stay at home mom of three?
Competency has nothing to do with pay.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: See!!!
Umm, I've got news for you. Pay rate is the primary way employers express their estimation of an employee's value in the market. To claim that competency matters to them but they don't reflect it in pay is absurd.
For instance, a brand new college graduate in an IT field versus a fifteen year veteran of the same field. Who gets paid more? The graduate.
A new graduate or a graduate with 15 year's experience? The more experienced (and generally more competent) one. An uneducated person trying to find IT employment versus an uneducated one with experience and corresponding competence? Again, the more experienced and competent one.
A brand-new doctor or an experienced nurse practitioner?
So what are you on about, trying to compare more educated persons to lesser educated ones? I've got news for you, nurse practitioners are not the "same" as doctors. And yes, they tend to make less than doctors. For a reason.
Let me guess, you don't have much education, yet you think think you should be paid the same as those with lots of education, right? Because you think less educated people are generally just as "competent" as those with more education, right? And in your mind, the fact that they don't make as much then just proves that "competency" has nothing to do with pay.
Yeah, I know your type. Lacking in education and jealous of the more educated. Believe it or not, medical school, for example, is not just a place that rich kids go to party for a few years before they get out and start making the bucks as doctors. They really do learn stuff there and it's part of what sets them apart from nurses. And, yes, doctors are generally more competent to practice medicine than nurse practitioners. And it is reflected in their pay. If you want to make that kind of money, maybe you should consider getting an education yourself instead of going around talking about sour grapes.
Competency has nothing to do with pay.
Actually, it does. You just don't want to accept that fact.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: See!!!
Plus budget cuts = "if you want to keep your job you will take a pay cut" or "there's the door". What better way to subsidize your paycut then to take it out of the pockets of the kids who (are supposed to) see him as a mentor.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Reality
Of course, that doesn't mean that the rest of us can't pillory them like they deserve all over the blogosphere!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
link
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ugh yet another stupid scchool administration
Publicly execute the thief, and fire and imprison for some long length of time those who allowed the thief to continue.
Public servants, People in authority, especially of children, have an extra duty of care to keep them safe and to be honest. Abuse of the public trust is a heinous crime with much stronger implications than just the single incident. The punishment of those in authority who abuse that trust must be severe and uncompromising. The Cop who steals, the teacher who abuses, the administrator who looks to the other way, much be held to a much higher standard to protect that public trust. the damage that cases like this do to the school systems, police and governmental organizations is much greater than the single case and must be treated accordingly.
I am glad it was not my kid who was involved. I would be in jail by now.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
violation of rights
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20919/20919-8.txt
The protagonist, prisoner Barrent, finds out on his first day on prison planet Omega that a certain class of citizens is legally entitled to shoot him on sight if they catch him outdoors during the first 24 hours (or 'until sundown', or something like that; it's a criminal world, so the rules are rather strange).
Barrent runs into what he believes to be a sanctuary where he cannot be shot, and the following, eerily bizarre but perfectly logical conversation takes place:
"That's very interesting," Barrent said, glancing toward the door and wondering how long his sanctuary would be respected. "Mr. Frendlyer, I'm not a member of your organization--"
"That doesn't matter," Frendlyer said. "Membership in our group is necessarily spontaneous. One joins when the occasion arises. Our intention is to protect the inalienable rights of all victims."
"Yes, sir. Well, there are three men outside trying to kill me."
"I see," Mr. Frendlyer said. He opened a drawer and took out a large book. He flipped through it quickly and found the reference he wanted. "Tell me, did you ascertain the status of these men?"
"I believe they were Hadjis," Barrent said. "Each of them had a little gold earring in his left ear."
"Quite right," Mr. Frendlyer said. "And today is Landing Day. You came off the ship that landed today, and have been classified a peon. Is that correct?"
"Yes, it is," Barrent said.
"Then I'm happy to say that everything is in order. The Landing Day Hunt ends at sundown. You can leave here with knowledge that everything is correct and that your rights are in no way being violated."
"Leave here? After sundown, you mean."
Mr. Frendlyer shook his head and smiled sadly. "I'm afraid not. According to the law, you must leave here at once."
"But they'll kill me!"
"That's very true," Frendlyer said. "Unfortunately, it can't be helped. A victim, by definition, is one who is to be killed."
"I thought this was a protective organization."
"It is. But we protect rights, not victims. Your rights are not being violated...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
re
(seriously, someone must have said this already. I never read these comments.)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The only court that counts
Open mouth sabotage isn't necessarily about getting due process within the system. It's about hurting the people who refuse you due process in the court of public opinion.
Regardless of how the school administration punishes the students, it can't suppress the video once it's online. And regardless of how the students are punished, making an example of the teacher in the court of public opinion will send a message to others.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
As for "the rules..."
"When You 'Work Hard and Play By the Rules,' the House Wins"
http://c4ss.org/content/2045
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: EVERY one of those students should be EXPELLED!!
The teacher is an adult, the students are minors. Hence, they have no rights to do anything not permitted by adults, whatsoever, regardless of what the teacher may or may not have done. Further, if the teacher did indeed steal anything, the students have no right to try and get it back, report the teacher, or to do anything but accept what happened. Life is not always fair, and it's about time that today's students learn that fact, first hand, if necessary.
As far as evidence is concerned, the teacher did nothing wrong whatsoever, and it should remain that way. Appropriate punishment for the students should include:
permanent expulsion from the school.
A mark on their record so any other school official, law official, or anyone else who has a need to know, will be able to see this. This mark should survive adulthood, and anyone should be allowed to make decisions based upon this mark.
Loss of all school credits, any awards given, any grants given, or anything else gained through education. This should include SAT or other test scores as well.
The teacher should be allowed to sue the students, and their families, to the full extent of the law, with any evidence the students may have being thrown out automatically, based on the minor status of the students.
The students should have a special restriction placed upon them, so that even when they turn 18, they would still remain minors and until the law recognized their adulthood. In this special situation, the students would retain all adult responsibilities, but none of the privileges of adulthood.
Yes, I know others will concider this draconian, but in today's society, it's completely necessary.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Didn't you get the true underlying lessons in pubic school is to teach you to take it up the ass quietly,without complaint,and with gratitude for there consideration.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
teacher stealing
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]