India Gearing Up To Fight ACTA; Seeking Other, Like-Minded, Countries

from the good-for-india dept

Tue, Jun 1st 2010 2:16pm — Mike Masnick

While the various governments supporting ACTA continue to insist there's nothing wrong with it, clearly more and more people are realizing that there are some massive problems with it, and we're not talking about the usual group of activists. It seems that India -- which is in the middle of reviewing its own copyright law -- is quite worried about ACTA. It's looking to team up with "like-minded countries" to oppose ACTA and to hold talks with countries who agree to ACTA to explain why they're worried about it. India's main concern appears to be over some of the proposals that would continue to allow the seizure of legal generic drugs passing through other countries, something that has been a huge problem for the Indian healthcare system.

Meanwhile, others elsewhere are seeing problems as well. Ray Dowd, a copyright litigator who writes an excellent blog on copyright issues, is getting himself up to speed on ACTA and seems horrified by what he's reading. He admits that he expected that the scare stories online that he'd been reading would prove to be exaggerations, but he now thinks that people aren't concerned enough about ACTA:

So when I finally got around to reading the text of ACTA, I thought that I would find the concerns I'd seen floating around the internet to be a little overblown.

In fact, I think that the concerns of the EFF are understated. I am not so concerned about confidential negotiations to give trade representatives some time to brainstorm. But the text appears to be so one-sided as to appear to have been spoonfed by certain aggressive Hollywood rights-holders who don't think anyone can make fun of Mickey Mouse and that anyone crossing a border should be frisked for a fake Louis Vuitton handbag.

I am surprised that ISP's and technology users seem to have had so little input into the process.

He notes that he's all for a true anti-counterfeiting agreement, but he's surprised that the government is using this to shoehorn in all sorts of things that have nothing to do with copyright:

What is counterfeiting? In my humble estimation, it is knowingly making large quantities of exact copies of a trademarked, patented, or copyrighted good with the intention of selling such large quantities to defraud consumers and the rights holders.

Thus, any anti-counterfeiting treaty would have the elements:

1. exact copies or copies intended to be so similar that a consumer could not tell the difference;
2. protected goods;
3. large quantities (500?) (2,000?);
4. intent to defraud consumers and rights holders.

Some kid copying stuff to his Ipod is not counterfeiting. Even 2,000 songs.

So anyone labeling a treaty "anti-counterfeiting" and that does not have the foregoing elements is trying to pull a scam on me.

His conclusion sums up what many of us have been saying for quite some time:

ACTA appears to be an attempt to tie Congress's hands in terms of domestic copyright legislation, rather than a legitmate attempt to pursue counterfeiting.

But, of course, according to various folks at the USTR and the Copyright Office, now that ACTA's been released, it's proven that all the "fears" from online sources were misguided. Right?

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Filed Under: acta, copyright, counterfeiting, india

30 Comments

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weneedhelp (profile), 1 Jun 2010 @ 2:23pm

Evil AC
I guess this is just all those "copyright" websites again, huh?
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Nastybutler77 (profile), 1 Jun 2010 @ 2:56pm

What now TAM?
Now that a real life lawyer has reached the same conclusion Mike had, what is TAM going to say? Cue the "Yeah buts" in 3,2,1...
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- TAM (impersonation), 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:02pm
  
  Re: What now TAM?
  India just wants to copy everything the U.S. does. They want to freeload from the U.S. R&D and art and music and whatnot instead of producing their own. What freeloaders. and they do generic drugs as well, which again is freeloading off of those who produced the generics.
  
  How did I do?
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  - Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:03pm
    
    Re: Re: What now TAM?
    Oh, and lets not forget, copying is the same thing as stealing. Remember folks, copying = stealing
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    - Richard (profile), 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:08pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: What now TAM?
      "I'm sure there must be something more to this story..."
      
      Ah, happy days...
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      - Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:25pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: What now TAM?
        Oh, and lets not forget. It's obvious now but it may not have been obvious then. Don't know what that has to do with this argument but I can't understand half of what TAM says anyways.
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      - DTS, 1 Jun 2010 @ 4:15pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: What now TAM?
        You guys forgot to uncap all your capital letters...
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        Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 7:31pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What now TAM?
        so did you.
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Fake TAM, 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:06pm

Slavery
Ha! Mike, as usual doesn't know what hes talking about. Get the facts idiot before posting. You just defend pirates while they starve Yoko, Paul and Ringo! You never offer any rational dispute to my objections and this is an excellent example of what I've been saying. THANK YOU for proving my point!

Everyone knows that the LAW has been going the way of the pirates since the Internet came into being. Finely we get much needed relief, and all you want to do is defend the assholes that enslaved us! THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE!! where is amnesty international when you need them? Want proof? Just look AT Fiona Apple jackass!
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IronM@sk, 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:09pm

Share To Facebook
//off-topic: The "Share To"- Facebook isn't playing very nice today. It's not parsing the article title header and article snippet or thumbnail chooser.
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crade (profile), 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:12pm

Darnit, if only we were well-represented, we could be a like-minded country!
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FUTURE ACTA ENFORCER, 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:26pm

You'll all pay. Soon enough.
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- FUTURE ACTA UNDERMINER, 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:57pm
  
  No, we won't.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:28pm

In fairness, India has no patents for pharmaceutical drugs, therefore every generic is legal. Pretty frustrating for European and U.S. pharma, as every drug they have spent billions developing becomes instantly available on Indian markets for generic prices.
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- Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 3:38pm
  
  Re:
  Stupid free market.
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  - chris (profile), 2 Jun 2010 @ 8:22am
    
    Re: Re:
    Stupid free market.
    
    Stupid free will.
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- Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 4:38pm
  
  Re:
  In opposed to twenty year monopolies (well, the effective life is less + extensions) despite the fact that there is no evidence that patents even promote the progress, especially in pharmaceutical where most of the innovation occurred during a time with fewer patent restrictions and what we have now, with all these patents, are me too drugs with minor modifications of previous drugs, drugs that would be produced perfectly well without patents.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 2 Jun 2010 @ 5:27am
    
    Re: Re:
    You are confusing copyright with patents. Copyright is a ridiculous duration, while many drug patents enter the public domain every year after the 20 year patent protection ends.
    
    Impossible to discuss the rest of your assertions. What exactly constitutes "innovation" in pharma?
    
    Regarding the minor modifications, this seems to be an issue that the market should figure out. If generics are available that are so chemically similar to the new patented drug, than people will gravitate towards the cheaper drug, or the patented drug will be similar in price to the generic.
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    - DH's Love Child, 2 Jun 2010 @ 6:57am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      "You are confusing copyright with patents. Copyright is a ridiculous duration, while many drug patents enter the public domain every year after the 20 year patent protection ends.
      "
      
      except when the big pharma pay companies to NOT release generics... oops
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      - Anonymous Coward, 2 Jun 2010 @ 10:15am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        That my friend is completely irrelevant to my original point.
        
        1) Indians don't pay any of the price to develop or create these drugs.
        2) Indians get all of the benefits.
        3) The rest of the world suffers, because overall innovation in the field is stunted, since the incentives to create pharmaceuticals are less.
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- Hephaestus (profile), 2 Jun 2010 @ 4:03am
  
  Re:
  "as every drug they have spent billions developing becomes "
  
  Do you remember how the IP industry contributes 1.8?? trillion dollar to the US economy? Rememner how that number was called into question? I will give you a hint at what I am getting at ... It Doesnt Cost The Pharma Industry Billions To Bring a Drug To Market. You are spouting industry rehtoric
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  - BoloMKXXVIII (profile), 2 Jun 2010 @ 5:18am
    
    Re: Re:
    The drug industry spends 10 times as much on advertising compared to R&D. They don't like to talk up that little fact.
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Wig Poo (profile), 1 Jun 2010 @ 4:42pm

Wow
Sounds to me like they might have a we bit too much spare time on their hands in India LOL

Lou
www.anon-posting.at.tc
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- Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 5:16pm
  
  Re: Wow
  Not enough spare time to stand up for our rights? I think not? Standing up for our rights is a very important endeavor and the time used to do it should hardly be considered spare. It's necessary time used to accomplish a necessary endeavor.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 5:07pm

ACTA will be BRIC(ed) LoL
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 5:24pm

BRIC them all!
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Shadow Six, 1 Jun 2010 @ 6:49pm

I stand with India
Will someone start an I stand with India group on facebook :) we need some showmanship if were going to force the media to cover ACTA.
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- Anonymous Coward, 1 Jun 2010 @ 7:33pm
  
  Re: I stand with India
  The media has covered it a tiny bit, favorably of course. You mean if we're going to try and persuade the media to cover it fairly. I doubt that will ever happen though, to the extent they cover it they will present it as the savior of humanity.
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Craig (profile), 3 Jun 2010 @ 8:49pm

India FTW
Are there any like-minded countries out there? Canada isn't one of them...our government just rides the shirttails of the coconuts south of the 49th in terms of laws and policies.

India++
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Born 1965, 8 Jul 2010 @ 9:41am

My opinion
"I wouldn't steal a car, bud I sure as hell would download one if I could"
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