Judge Says DHS Can't Hang Onto Travelers Laptops To Search Much Later Without A Warrant

from the a-bit-of-good-news dept

Fri, Jun 11th 2010 4:38am — Mike Masnick

We just had a story about a court ruling saying that it was okay for customs agents to take a laptop away and search it somewhere else if they had reasonable suspicion. This has followed a string of controversial court decisions, which say there are no 4th amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure at the border. On top of that, the Department of Homeland Security has made it pretty clear that it feels it can do whatever it wants at the border.

However, there may be some limits. Another recent court ruling has told Homeland Security that it cannot seize a laptop, hang onto it indefinitely and do searches on it many months later without a warrant. It's not entirely clear where the line lies here. The court basically says that earlier searches of the same laptop were fine, but there was no reason to hold onto it for so many months and then do another search.

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Filed Under: 4th amendment, border, customs, laptops, privacy, searches, warrants

20 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2010 @ 5:18am

First really? nice.
So here's my question, if the lappy is locked down, fully encrypted and protected...can you be forced to give up the passwords? and if not, do you get your lappy back?
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- Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2010 @ 5:32am
  
  Re:
  no, they cannot force you to give any passwords. if you have your laptop locked and it requires a password to log in, they cant do anything about it but give it back to you.
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  - Richard (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 6:21am
    
    Stalemate
    no, they cannot force you to give any passwords.
    Sadly, at the UK border under RIPA they can demand passwords. What exactly is supposed to happen if you genuinely cannot remember or don't know (eg if you were transporting the laptop for someone else) is not clear. Also, if you use Truecrypt and they believe that there are more layers than you admit to then it is not clear what follows.
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- out_of_the_blue, 11 Jun 2010 @ 7:01am
  
  Re: @1 In all seriousness, depends only on their whims.
  You are now subject to epsilon minuses with nearly unlimited power. There's a thin veneer of process and civility left, but while you're standing there in your socks, you'd better not make the least remark that implies you have rights. They can seize not only your laptop but your person, and literally disappear you, no charge, no lawyer, no trace, and no appeasing them with merely giving your password.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2010 @ 5:31am

We are the DHS
You are outside of the border.
You have no rights.
We own all your bases.
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- Rose M. Welch (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 6:26am
  
  Re: We are the DHS
  No, that's incorrect.
  
  All of your base belong to me.
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  - Dark Helmet (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 7:20am
    
    Re: Re: We are the DHS
    I'm fairly certain that all your base are belong to us....
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    - interval (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 8:08am
      
      Re: Re: Re: We are the DHS
      For great justice.
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      - harbingerofdoom (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 9:05am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: We are the DHS
        would somebody set up us the bomb?
        
        ...............please???
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- Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2010 @ 11:26am
  
  Re: We are the DHS
  God given rights do not disappear just because you cross a man made line.
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Thomas (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 5:43am

Remind me...
who is protecting us from the spooks? I thought the idea was that the spooks were to protect us? The spooks seem more interested in their own agendas and emulating the Gestapo than trying to protect American citizens
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- Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2010 @ 5:46am
  
  Re: Remind me...
  This has been a recurring theme since the dawn of the human race.
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- chris (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 8:24am
  
  Re: Remind me...
  The spooks seem more interested in their own agendas and emulating the Gestapo than trying to protect American citizens
  
  http://www.forbes.com/2007/06/11/urban-surveillance-security-biz-21cities_cx_cd_0611futu recity.html
  
  The East German Stasi also engaged in rampant surveillance, using a network of snitches to assemble secret files on every resident of East Berlin. They knew who was telling subversive jokes--but missed the fact that the Wall was about to come down.
  
  or to quote the great Robert Anton Winston: "National security is the chief cause of national insecurity."
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Adam Bell (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 7:53am

Given tools like Dropbox, why would anyone want to run the risk of a hassle at the border (which I cross frequently from Canada)? As Mike has pointed out many times now, the Internet crosses the border without overt DHS hassle. Use it if you're carrying sensitive info or email the info ahead.
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WammerJammer (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 8:23am

Lock it down
Encrypt it before you travel and the passwords are your business and you cannot be forced to give them up. The police everywhere lie and cannot be trusted so tell them nothing. They are the true privacy wreckers. Get on a cop's radar and you'll never see privacy again.
Police Lie. Politicians Lie. Lawyers Lie. This is their job, to defraud, to stretch the truth, to lie. So if Homeland Security tells you a thing it is either a lie or a partial truth. The time has come to decide who to trust. The battle lines have been drawn and now more than ever it is THEM or US.
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Overcast (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 8:39am

They can't just use MS Cofee for it? lol

Computer Online Forensic Evidence Extractor (COFEE)

http://www.microsoft.com/industry/government/solutions/cofee/default.aspx
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2010 @ 9:16am

1. The CBP certainly can hold you until you give up the passwords. You don't have rights at the border because you're not "officially" in the USA.

2. Anybody calling their laptop a "lappy" doesn't deserve to get it back.
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- Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 11 Jun 2010 @ 9:36am
  
  Re:
  Anybody calling their laptop a "lappy" doesn't deserve to get it back.
  C'mon! You can't take away Strongbad's email responding abilities!
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2010 @ 10:10am

This is in line with previous case law regarding searching of packages in shipment. Law enforcement agencies CAN do certain non-intrusive searches (like bring a drug sniffing dog through a UPS/FedEx/whatever shipping hub), but they can't delay a package they think might have something "bad" in it unless they get a warrant first.

So same basic deal.
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Ed C., 11 Jun 2010 @ 11:10am

It might be one thing for them to have the right to seize property at the board without cause, but then taking it into the county without obtaining a warrant should make the seizure and the possession unlawful. They may not have to abide by the law when they are "outside" the country, but they damn better have to abide by it the moment they set one foot into it!
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