Film Director: File Sharing Only Hurts Bad Or Mediocre Films
from the good-filmmakers-are-not-afraid dept
TorrentFreak asked independent film director Sam Bozzo to comment on his experiences having his two most recent films leaked to BitTorrent. The stories in both cases were different. The first film, Blue Gold: World Water Wars was released normally, and then leaked online. The second, his documentary Hackers Wanted was shelved after internal disputes -- but has now leaked to BitTorrent. Originally it was an old cut that was leaked, but now Bozzo's "directors' cut" has been leaked, and Bozzo seems fine with it. In fact, he claims that if you make a good film, having it leaked to BitTorrent can only help. It's only bad if your film isn't very good:In a nutshell, I believe the only films that are hurt by torrent sharing are mediocre and bad films. In contrast, the good films of any genre only benefit from file-sharing. Due to this, I feel the current file-sharing trend is a catalyst for a true evolution in filmmaking...That's quite a statement, since so many in the movie industry disagree. But Bozzo does a good job backing it up by explaining his own experiences. In fact, he admits when he first found out that Blue Gold was available online he was "enraged and terrified I would never make my money back," because of this. But he has since changed his mind, in part because he figured out how to embrace it:
I contacted the uploader of my film and asked she spread a message of support with the torrent, asking for donations if a viewer likes the film and explaining that was a self-financed endeavor. The result? I received many donations and emails of support from those who downloaded the film, but I furthermore believe that viewers spread the word of the film to their non-torrent-downloading friends and that DVD sales increased due to the leak. For me, the torrent leak was ultimately "free advertising", and I am the only truly independent documentary filmmaker I know making his money back this year.He also responds to the usual complaint from filmmakers that even if unauthorized downloads might lead to more theater attendance, it must harm DVD sales, by highlighting, yet again, how obscurity is a much bigger "threat" than "piracy":
With "Blue Gold" already available on DVD in North America, UK, Japan, and Australia, the initial fear of a filmmaker is that each person who downloads a torrent would have instead paid to buy or rent a DVD if the torrent were not available. I feel this is false for many reasons. For an independent film like mine, most torrent users would have never heard of my film if not for the torrent. Unlike a large blockbuster film, I had no advertising money to spread the word of the film, so the torrent leak provided another outlet to hopefully create a viral campaign of word-of-mouth. The main point, though, is that this only worked because the film is a solid good film (for the target market at least), so word of mouth could only help the film.The next obvious question is what about all those Blockbuster films that the MPAA and Hollywood like to pretend represent the pinnacle of movie making? He notes that it's probably wrong to worry about DVD sales, because if people are watching the movies on their computer, it's probably best to compare it to a situation like Netflix's streaming service, and again, notes the value of exposure over dollars:
In this case, I feel it is important to compare file sharing not with DVD-purchases or rental, but with streaming a film via Netflix's Watch Instantly and also with inviting friends over to watch a film in a group. In neither of these situations does a film make any money. Most are surprised to learn that Netflix pays only a fixed fee to the distributor for the number of years they may offer a film, regardless of whether that film is streamed once or a million times in that time period.And from there he makes the key point:
Yet anyone I know on Netflix's Watch Instantly platform, including me, is thrilled to be there. Why? The exposure. The more people who see the film, the more will likely love it and want to buy it for their collection. When you invite a group of friends to your house to watch a DVD, do you charge them? One person bought one DVD, and ten watch it free, but if the film is good, hopefully a few of them will buy a DVD for themselves, or at least spread positive word.
Good filmmakers are not afraid to have their films seen, they fight to have them seen. They pay thousands of dollars for the "honor" of screening them for free at film festivals, so why not embrace screening them for free online with no "submission fee" required?As for bad films? Well, he points out those are harmed by file sharing, because the negative word of mouth gets around much faster, leading people to avoid both the theatrical and DVD releases. But, he notes, for years, Hollywood has preyed on opening day box office numbers to define what is and what is not a good film, when the reality is those numbers are a factor of marketing and advertising:
Distributors of bad and mediocre films depend solely on a paying audience's misconception that they are paying to watch a good film, when they are not. Via mass marketing, trailers, posters, and paying high fees to star actors, distributors of bad films are betting all their money on one thing; getting as many people to pay to see the film the opening weekend in a theater before that disgruntled, unsatisfied audience tells all of their friends to avoid their bad film.Believe it or not, all that is in just the first half of the article. Bozzo goes on to make a number of additional good points about why the legacy players hate BitTorrent -- not because it's "stealing" from them, but because it's upsetting their old way of tricking people into giving them money for bad movies. It's a great read. Someone should send it to Hurt Locker producer Nicolas Chartier, though I'm pretty sure I know how he'd respond...
If you think logically just a second, it's ridiculous to judge a film's quality at all from the opening weekend, because nobody has seen the film yet to judge it! The opening weekend only demonstrates how much money was spent on advertising and the stars. That's it.
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Filed Under: file sharing, movies, sam bozzo
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New Business Model?
However, the one problem with this (as mentioned in the article) is with respect to crappy movies - from what I can see - and I'm no expert in marketing/advertising - makers of the film purposefully push actors, scenes, music, etc in their trailers to attract people on opening day. We can see how good films last longer in theaters than the crappy ones - any purposeful "leak" of a crappy film would hurt the opening day sales.
Despite the negative aspect(s), I'd like to see how other film makers approach this idea.
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Re: New Business Model?
i think a better direction would be to make more smaller productions that are more targeted.
bozzo said:
The main point, though, is that this only worked because the film is a solid good film (for the target market at least), so word of mouth could only help the film.
the problem with mass market films is that they get downloaded en mass. a smaller production would recover costs faster, and targeting could lead to more support in the form of merchandise sales and donations.
i have seen two films ("the listening" and "the girl with the dragon tattoo") simply because they were mentioned on the nmap website. the listening was decent, and the girl with the dragon tattoo was excellent. i knew that if a film featured nmap that it would be a high tech thriller that would most likely appeal to me.
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This is bad?
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I'd rather DL a movie and find its crappy than spend 10$ for a ticket and be pissed off afterwards. Thus, bad for the crappy film since they don't get mine and other people's money.
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Bad films need an excuse
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Reminds me of...
If file sharing had been around back then, maybe someone would have clued me in before I wasted my money.
Bet nobody's looking for a torrent of that piece of crap! But I did see it on the $5 shelf at Walmart a few weeks ago.
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Exactly, Mike
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If he knows the movies he produces are bad, why is he making them at all?
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and if he doesn't know???
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Actually sometimes bad movies are actually made that way. Have you seen any of the SCI channels made for TV movies? They are all horrible but fun to watch.
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Smart!
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But mr Bozzo's previous film was released on DVD, and was pirated heavily. And yes initially he was scared it would eat into his revenue... but he found out that it didn't matter.
So, your derision doesn't even hold true.
There are numerous examples of even blockbuster movies that actually had a great opening weekend, despite this rampant internet plundering of the poor rich execs.
A particularly good example would be Wolverine. Which got leaked on the internet, got trashed there for the awful special effects (yes, I know, because it was a rough edit, not the finalized product), and yet it had a better Box Office opening than similar movies.
So what bad effect did filesharing have on that multi-million dollar craphouse of a movie?
Oh wait, you don't like facts, you prefer truthiness... your gut feeling tells you "oh because people are "stealing" my works, I am losing money.", despite that there is no proof to be found that corroborates that gut feeling. And maybe, just maybe, you should make better movies... then it won't eat into your revenue, who knows, you might even gain fans for life, who'll even buy your crap products, just because they like the good stuff.
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what we do know is that a significant amount of the population enjoys movies without paying. if the movies were not available for free, would they still want to see them? if the answer is yes, then it is clear that there is a negative effect from piracy.
it is the same old arguments, like trying to show that raping the girl didnt really harm her.
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And indeed, there is no way to know that the filesharing of Wolverine did anything to the box office release. Not positive, nor negative.
Fact is, it was heavily pirated, fact is also that it did extremely well at the box office. Better in fact than similar movies with much better ratings and reviews. Where were the negative results from filesharing there? People were slamming the movie online for the cheesy and awful special effects, and non-existant storyline. And yet it did better than for instance Star Trek, a much higher anticipated movie.
Oh, and stop equating copyright infringement with rape, that's way out of line and you know it, it doesn't help your argument, but undermines it in a very big way.
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Considering that TP's also attempted the same argument, I think it both helps and undermines his argument in more ways than one, both scenarios not in his favour.
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Very interesting jump you made there. I am very curious how wanting to see a movie turns into revenue. Last I checked I can want to see a movie a whole bunch, but unless I plunk down some cash then there is no revenue. There have been lots of movies that I may have wanted to see but never did.
There is also a big flip side to your argument: If the movies were not available for free, would less people know about the movie and paid to see it? If the answer is yes, then it is clear that there is a positive impact from piracy.
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Exactly - we have no way of knowing.
what we do know is that a significant amount of the population enjoys movies without paying. if the movies were not available for free, would they still want to see them? if the answer is yes, then it is clear that there is a negative effect from piracy.
No - as you said before - we have no way of knowing.
As far as enjoying movies for free is concerned - there are always movies available for free on TV. If newer movies were not available via the net then I guess those people would simply watch TV. You have no way of knowing that they would have spent money.
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In which case the licensing fees for said movies would go up, and the point holders would earn higher royalties for their work.
Great argument!
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Sounds like a reasonable argument - but the people who watch for free are time rich but cash poor. As such they have no significant disposable income. Therefore as a demographic they have zero value to advertisers and so don't add to the marketability of the films they watch on TV.
Advertisers want the attention of the time poor/cash rich section of the community (which is much scarcer) - but this is the section of the community that does pay for cinema tickets DVDs etc (unless the producers choose to put them off with oppressive DRM).
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Hey FUCK YOU TAM, you can fucking DIE you piece of shit. My niece was raped and that is NOT THE GOD DAMN SAME THING as fucking FILE SHARING. At ALL. For you to make such a disgusting and offensive comparison shows just what a piece of scum you are.
You are fucking piece of shit and I hope you rot in hell.
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One has to wonder if RD ever invoked Godwin's Law or failed to respond in kind to someone that did.
I'm not the person you're responding to, but if I had the time I would look back through the Techdirt archives until I found just such an instance that revealed you to be the fucking hypocrite you no doubt are.
"Copyright nazis" is a phrase used liberally in the various web 2.0 freeloader circles. Why don't you drag your soapbox over to some of those instances? Or perhaps you don't personally know any Jewish people well enough to vitriolically defend them from shitty analogies?
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And what the FUCK does knowing any Jewish people have to do with my criticism of a douchebag that would compare the RAPE OF MY NIECE to FILE SHARING?? Where did I mention Copyright Nazis? Please, enlighten us, O Great Genius of Our Time.
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is a phrase commonly used by.....
Seriously the moment you use any of these stereotyped put downs ( except perhaps with humorous intent) you show that you are not really interested in reasoned argument.
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But I digress. Bozzo said he had almost no exposure before the first film was shared, and he got lots of exposure after. So yes, we DO know what would have happened without file sharing.
Also, bringing "rape" in is a different flavor of Godwin-ing this thread, but just as bad as bringing up Nazis. Minus two internets for you.
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He has everything to lose.
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hrm and @13
keep trying your getitng there....
thats why its called risky business
all investments have risk
HOLLYWOOD wants to murder kill and imprison anyhting that can stop or impede its trillion dollar rise to global domination of the world MUAHHAHAAAHAHAH
...sorry got carried away there, just watched some PINKY and THE BRAIN
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The Pirate Syndicate, a de facto marketing group
Thank you for demonstrating the value of our de facto organization, The Pirate Syndicate. We are aware that our tactics and operations may be viewed as controversial, even illegal in today's political climate, and we are exceedingly happy that you have come to realize the benefit we offer to you and your peers.
I, for one, look forward to working with you, and anyone who appreciates the time, effort, and donated services such as bandwidth, disk space, server hosting, and computing time we provide, at the personal expense of the individual members of our organizations. We agree - obscurity is the single largest problem faced by film makers, and it is one that The Pirate Syndicate, as the largest distribution network on the planet, is uniquely qualified to solve.
We are glad to see that you have not been swayed by the smear campaigns being run by a few of our competitors, namely, the MPAA, clients of US Copyright Group and ACS:Law, and some others. These groups feel threatened by the distribution and advertisement components of our business plan. They seem to believe that an end-user has nothing to offer except a few dollars here and there. In the past, this may have been true, however, technological innovation has caught up with human nature, and individuals are now able to compete with marketing and distribution firms.
This smear campaign is being challenged, in court and by the Pirate Party. It is fortunate that we live in democratic societies, where laws are intended to benefit the people, rather than litigious companies. The more these groups attack us, the faster the laws will be changed, preventing them from doing so in the future.
If I may make a suggestion (for you and your peers): Please make it exceedingly easy for our customers and us to show our appreciation for your high-quality movies. I, personally, have no need for DVDs cluttering up my home, as all my media resides on hard drives. Also, I am generally unwilling to purchase copies from competing services such as Netflix. Aside from providing word-of-mouth advertising and distribution, I have few means of supporting you and your projects, and even fewer methods of providing financial support!
Please consider creating other tangible products, such as personally signed DVD copies, t-shirts, buttons, bumper stickers and/or various other merchandise as may be appropriate for your films or your production company. Please also consider mentioning in the credits of your films, a web site that will accept donations for your projects.
Thank you again for your kind words. I look forward to doing business with you in the future.
Dave
The Pirate Syndicate
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Anyone notice the similarity here?
MHO - A product is a product and the better it is the more money I am willing to throw at it. Period. If your movie is going to be broken from some people file sharing it, then you should have done a better job making the movie in the first place. Making a movie, writing a song, or even a book about teenage vampires is not going to instantly make you a millionaire. If its a crappy movie, and horrible song, and a lousy read all you did was waste time and money on an inferior product that no one is going to want to buy. That's life, that's business, now move on.
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I would rather pay $10 to see a movie in a theater than download even a DVD quality version, but I hate paying $10 to see garbage in a theater. And I will pirate a movie to watch at home to avoid paying $10 for a movie that doesn't deserve my money. But I have absolutely no issue giving $10 for an enjoyable movie experience.
I had to apologize to my friends for dragging them to see "The Cable Guy" so many years ago. I still feel bad about that, and angry that the movie fooled me into seeing it.
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I bet you don't eat out too often with that attitude.
I would love to see you inform a restaurant owner that you were not 100% satisfied with your meal and would therefore not be offering even 1% of the price in recompense. This, having already licked your plate clean, of course...
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Now people don't have to just suck it up anymore. They can try before they buy. And yes, lots of people just don't buy. Well too damn bad. I can't even begin to count all the money I could have saved by not puchasing media that turned out to be garbage.
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This is true.
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Re: This is true.
Unfortunately the big moviemakers equate "better movies" to mean "movies that make a bigger profit." When this is the objective the industry naturally gravitates to proven themes that have been market tested into mediocrity. It is very hard for a producer to be able to break through this studio barrier.
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Thanks from the author/ filmmaker!
I also appreciate Anonymous Coward presenting a counter-point. We need that always to test theories. I may go point by point to explain to him why he is wrong in this case if time permits, but basically invite him to re-read my full article and realize most of his challenges are addressed there. On a side note, Anonymous sounds just like my ex-producer! It's eerie!
Thanks again!
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Re: Thanks from the author/ filmmaker!
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Bit torrents
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Re: Bit torrents
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow/
ffdshow can decode almost anything.
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watched hackers wanted last night
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Thanks for positive reviews!
"I can’t really express just how great the movie was. I would definitely recommend people should download it."
"This documentary shows the three hats of the hacking community, and how nearly all of them are under fire from the mainstream. No matter if you are a destructive, greedy black hat, an ambiguous grey hat, or even a moral, means-well white hat, it appears as though the established order is out to strike these brave men and women down, who are merely curious at the ways things work and have ideas as to how they should work. It's a great contemporary documentary on the state of cyber-warfare, exploit disclosure, and hacker ethos. Truly a superior counterpart to 2008's Hackers Are People Too. Not as funny, but a lot more intriguing, inspiring, and infuriating (yay for vowels). Definitely a must for hackers and everyone interested in the online community in general."
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