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Could Collection Societies Help Up-And-Coming Artists With A 20/80 Distribution System?

from the one-idea dept

Tue, Jun 15th 2010 10:39pm — Mike Masnick

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of music collection societies in general. I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them. That's because once they're given a right to demand payments, they continually look to expand that right: covering more areas and increasing the amount they can demand.

While, at first, that might seem like a good thing for the musicians and songwriters they represent, what many don't take into account is the wider repercussions and unintended consequences. For example, by making music more expensive to play, they actually take away a lot of the incentive for many places to play music -- thereby cutting down on promotional venues for certain artists. This has hit coffee shops and other small venues especially hard, and that's quite a problem since so many musicians actually get their start performing at various open mic nights. The second problem, of course, is in distribution. How do these collection societies accurately distribute money. By their very nature, they really can't track how often songs from less-well-known artists and songwriters are played, and so they often just focus on bigger acts -- effectively taking money that should go to smaller artists and giving it to bigger artists! If you catch representatives from those groups off-guard, they even seem willing to admit that, such as the time that a BMI exec responded to such criticism from a songwriter who wasn't getting paid: "I would like to tell him is that he needs to write a hit song."

Andrew Dubber has been thinking about this issue, and is wondering if there might be a slightly better solution that would help up-and-coming artists. His idea is that these collection societies should take 20% of their overall pot of money, and divide it equally among the lower 80% of the musicians and songwriters who are members. It wouldn't be that much money, but it would give them all some money. The remaining 80% of the collection revenues would still be handed out as usual, using whatever techniques the collection societies use to figure out who gets what. My first reaction on hearing this is that it would get people to sign up for a chance at "free money," making it something like a welfare system for musicians. But, Dubber points out in the comments that in order to qualify, you'll still need to have a song that was used somewhere else. You can't just say you're a musician.

I'm still not totally convinced that this would work, and I'm also not convinced that the collection society setup is even worth saving at all. But if such societies are going to be around (and it's almost certain they're not going anywhere), then we might as well look at ways to make them actually help more musicians, rather than simply propping up the top of the top, while holding back new comers.

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Filed Under: collection society, distribution, fairness, music

137 Comments

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Rick, 15 Jun 2010 @ 10:54pm

Sorry Mike...
At first I thought - what a great idea, but then I considered the fact that you're talking about the 80% of musicians who never make it big. Heck they probably never make it out of their own state or the adjoining one(s). So, do they deserve an equal cut of the 20%? Probably not. Picture distributing, just for example sake, the 20% of 20 million dollars collected. That's 4 million bucks going to some 500,000 musicians in the US alone in the 80% (I'm sure that's a low number). They each get $8. They can sell a CD for $12 at a show and do better.

You either need to abolish the collection society or update them with technology. A modern cell phone can have an app installed that simply listens to a song and identifies it - why can't a bar or venue do the same?

If a bar owner pays a fee for performance rights, why can't the society simply install a cellular listening device in the place of business that listens to the songs played - identifies them and reports in real time what's being played. It would be far more accurate than their current guessing/sampling methods. It would alos be useful and 'saleable' as REAL chart data far superior to the crap Billboard and Neilson puts out.

Just an idea...
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Jun 2010 @ 11:15pm

Re: Sorry Mike...
why can't the society simply install a cellular listening device in the place of business that listens to the songs played

They could call it, Big Listener.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 15 Jun 2010 @ 11:21pm

Re: Sorry Mike...
Picture distributing, just for example sake, the 20% of 20 million dollars collected. That's 4 million bucks going to some 500,000 musicians in the US alone in the 80% (I'm sure that's a low number). They each get $8. They can sell a CD for $12 at a show and do better.

You're assuming only $20 million collected. You're off by a lot.

In the post above, he runs the numbers for UK artists, and each would get £2,500. That's not too bad.

In the US, I'm not sure where your $20 million comes from. ASCAP alone (which is only 1 of the 3 US songwriter collection agencies) paid out $817 million in 2008. So, now you're talking $163 million. ASCAP has 350,000 creators signed up. 80% of those would be 280,000 artists. So, 280,000 artists getting a split of $163 million... and (if my quick mental math is right) you're talking about $600. That's not anything amazing, certainly, but it's not $8. And it's a hell of a lot more than a lot of folks get from ASCAP.

But, yes, in general, I agree. The whole situation is not good.
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Jay (profile), 15 Jun 2010 @ 11:30pm

I'm fairly against this
The problem with these non profits are the fact that they have an enforcement scheme that doesn't really work. The externalities that you mention are not worth the need to have these businesses around. The problem with any type of 80/20 incentive, is the fact that it continues to disincentivize(?) musicians in a fairly similar way. Now, you have the major artist carrying the ones that underperform. I don't believe this will change the situation.

What I suggest is a reversion of an underperforming copyright. Rather than wearing down coffee shops with what is owned and enforced, there could instead be smaller groups of copyright holders that charge based on popularity, region, or a myriad of other factors rather than a monopolistic license that is incredibly difficult to find the copyrights for.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:36am

I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
Mike @ techdirt :I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them."

ME : Are you a working musician??

Who pays the bills and puts the grandchildren through college,, ALL off of his/her songwriting?!?!?

How could you Mike , as an "egomaniac- with -poor --=writing-blogger- something",

For ever,, for heaven's sake,,,

know the life and struggles of a
working songwriter and /or musician??

Who the FreaK are you!!!..........

.......... Mike to tell me that ASCAP /BMI :

"abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them."

In all honesty Mike,, F%#K YoU !

Really , I have never been so insulted in my life.

For you to think you know how a working songwriter , and their collectives work form the inside ,, as "real world players"--

- living eating and

dying off the CREATION of "their music" and the "art of their songwriting".

Again F#@K YOU !

( It's techdirt I have taken it for weeks , and I saved it for when I meant it.)

Yes I mean it.

You are lucky Chuck Berry ,

and Bob Dylan -

- guys who became rich for their songwriting -- Quite Franky,, Mr .Berry , would kick yous ass physically.

He takes no sh#t for no one.

Bob , well he already wrote a song about you Mike and copyright called:

Positively Fourth Street.

The greatest , "you are really a shmuck" song EVER written.

Nice J -- O -- B !!!

BOB !!!!!!!!

http://video.mail.ru/inbox/mtchng_mol/2907/2920.html
------------------
--------------
-----------
(P.S. As SL pointed out , songwriters make the most in music.. I re-post it later )
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 1:05am

Abusive much?
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Blatant Coward (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 2:18am

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
1. If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.

2. When did the collection societies actually start giving money to the artists? Most of the time their take is 'held for the artist due to no accurate payment information.'

3. Your scansion in the 4th and 2nd couplets limp like a clubfooted water buffalo.
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Richard (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 3:19am

How about this?
First off we need a system to allow musicians to play their own music, their friends music, and public domain music without a contribution going to the collecting societies at all.

Once that is established each musician gets an equal share of the remaining revenue - but not for themselves. Instead they must donate it to one or more other songwriters (the honest and sensible ones will donate to those that wrote the songs they themselves play).
Sysyems will need to be put in place to catch abuses of this system (tit for tat and "chain" arrangements - legitimate I play your songs and you play mine arrangements would be out of the license system altogether - see above)
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Richard (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 3:35am

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
@tp

Here we are - trying to look at ways that would help to share revenue more fairly between musicians - and maybe help a few struggling ones to survive more easily - not looking here at abolishing the existing system you seem to love - just tweaking it a bit to help the less successful artists - and - well - just look how your comment sits in that context.
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PaulT (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 3:54am

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
I often wonder: what is your songwriting actually like? I mean, you always claim to be a songwriter/musician, but never take the opportunity to introduce yourself or your work. Combine this with the general state of your posts here, which often look like they're written by a ADD 12 year old whose native language is not English and you're probably doing a major disservice to your work (if it is indeed any good).

As for your post here, you do realise you're attacking somebody for giving his opinion on a suggestion on how to improve the payouts for lesser known musicians, right? I mean you ramble on in every post about musicians who made it big 50 years ago, but never see to look at what the system is now and how is screws lesser-known artists like yourself.

You've literally just said "fuck you" to Mike because he agrees that more obscure musicians don't get their fair share of the pie.
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out_of_the_blue, 16 Jun 2010 @ 4:01am

"propping up the top ... holding back new comers"
That's capitalism for you. At best *now* it's a mature system, losing the ferment and opportunity that made upward social mobility possible, while those already at the top move to take rights away from the rest, and make a new feudalism.

That's why the only solution -- the only one that I *wish* to occur, others are unpleasant for *all* -- is to return to Populism and the view that The Rich are the major menace to society, and more so when they gain control of the gov't, and so a steeply progressive income tax is needed. Yes, we can't make everyone rich by giving away gov't money, and note that I don't advocate such, but The Rich are rich precisely because they have effective ways to skim from large numbers of people: somehow *their* re-distribution schemes are socially acceptable. In practice, it's easier to be born rich than to earn it, and those numbers and their arrogance are growing until we're practically saddled with royalty.

Perhaps some don't know that income tax originally applied *only* to the richest 1% or so, and that's the way it should be. Income tax is a means to control populations, yes, but the notion of *who* needs controlled -- based on evidence from all of history -- has been lost, because every American thinks that they're rich, or soon will be, and high tax rates will affect them.
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SteelWolf (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 4:21am

Re: I'm fairly against this
Why charge at all? I think the whole collection society mentality misses the entire point of music. It's this idea that because somebody or some business is getting a measure of value from your song, they owe you something.

I don't think this is true at all. Especially for the "poor, independent, unknown" artists we like to worry about, the benefit of having their song actually played and listened to is far more important than getting a payout.

Collection societies are all about shaking down small businesses for payments they can distribute to their own executives and a few major artists. Independents and smaller artists don't need them, they need to be heard. Then it's up to the artist to offer scarcities these incoming potential fans can buy. Don't expect to sit on your laurels and get checks every time a coffee shop plays your song, as if they're not doing -you- the favor.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 6:16am

another wonderful socialist idea. take the money from those who are popular and actually getting airplay, concert play, etc, and give it to others who are not. musical welfare?

perhaps a more fair and obvious system is to send them same size check to everyone who is registered with the society. with the current recording tools and autotune, every one of us can write and publish a song, join the society, and profit from the musical socialism at play.

posts like this mike absolutely expose your socialist leanings, which explains many other things you post.
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Tek'a R (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 6:59am

Re: "soshalisms!"
Ah, you wacky AC.

The system is already designed to take everyone's money (the PRO's think that everyone needs pay them a music tax forever)and give some to a tiny handful or performers and writers while keeping the rest for themselves.

What we have here is mike letting us know, despite his own reservations about the PROs, about someones interesting idea.

I know, i know.. the idea that the groups that claim to pay their members and "have their member's interests in mind" should actually Pay Out a tiny fraction of their income rather then rejiggering the math and forgetting to send out checks.. that kind of idea is wacky soshalist commi nazi maoist leninist talk!

I know, i know, i am making the mistake of responding to a blatant and foolish troll, sorry everyone.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:20am

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
"Pault T." , "Richard" , and a "couple of Cowards",,,,,, hmm

Mike their responses ,, the standard mentally-"juvenile offenders
here.. show that when it comes to music and copyrights ,, You Mike at techdirt ,, know "bo-diddly-squat",,,,,

.... about being a living musician and your "prime supporters" in commentators here are worse ,, they just know NOTHING.

Fools who seem to spend 90% of their waking hours posting here @ techdirt.

I know , if I do 10 -posts-a-day ,, I feel my day shortened ,, and less "real LIFE things" get done --- but my passion for ""Copyright as a Constitutional Protection of Artist & Writers et. al. "" ---

and drives me to fight you Pirates.

Paul T, Ricahard,, and Cowards,, pyhco- posters who would debate Creation with G-D, and tell G-D that he is missing the point.

Maybe I will save one Pirate soul -- from "downloading damnation" and life in cyber-hell. ( Hell is hell , at all levels,, YOU geeks kiss many Pretty Woman "??? ---- w/o paying!?!?!?)

===============
Roy Orbison - Pretty Woman (From "Live At Austin City Limits")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBrbpWwWafQ
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:22am

Re: Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
me
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:24am

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
That was almost as incomprehensible as NAMELESS.ONE. I'd like to know where some of what you were trying to say was going because a dialog is important to reaching mutual understanding and a system that is beneficial to everyone. However, the insults, incomplete sentences, and liberal use of symbols to disguise profanity makes what you look like a jackass rather than a participant in a reasonable discussion.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:28am

Re: How about this?//First off we need a system
what do you mean "WE" ?

You ain't a musician,----- you ain't "WE"

Copyright is about "artist's rights" not "audience desires"

==============================
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Hephaestus (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:30am

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
First ... You should put that rant to music.

"abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them."

If a true accounting of what music is played on the radio, bars, coffee shops, and clubs. It would cause ASCAP and BMI to fail. I have been doing a little test with about 50 web broadcasted-streamed radio stations. Who and what ASCAP pays is way off based on a months worth of data. The top 200 should be the top 2,500 plus. The ratios of who gets paid and how much they are paid is so off that it cant be error, like most record label data its a total guess or falsehood.

My thought on this software is use it on all web based stations. Then continuosly publish the data a week or two after everyone is paid by the collection societies. It would be fun to watch the chaos that ensues. If the Performing Rights Act gets passed into law it would be a way to keep the record labels and collection societies honest.
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tom, 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:34am

PRS/PPL just give their money to the big boys
When i joined PRS/PPL in the early '90's i got a few cheques for £50 or so from the left-overs pot. But some point in the mid-nineties the annual magazine came out saying: Great news, from now on any money left over will go to the big hit makers - basically Elton John. I never got any more money after that. But then by the late 90s i stopped telling them about my releases and just give them away online.
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aguywhoneedstenbucks (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:48am

Re: Re: "soshalisms!"
The trolls do a pretty good job of getting people riled up around here. That's usually where the most people respond.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:51am

100/100
Why don't we take 100% of the money from those that perform it, and give it to those that perform it?
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:53am

Re: I'm fairly against this
"The problem with these ++++non profits++ are the fact that they have an enforcement scheme that doesn't really work."

Me : that fact ASCAP /BMI are "non profit collectives",, show how faulty your reasoning is.

think about it .
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:54am

Re:
not any more than Mike is with his silly words towards Artists.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:57am

. If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.
Blatant Coward : "If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips."

Me : I have been songwriting for 30 years,, my peers love my songs.

You a "Blatant Coward" who has not an Artistic Soul.. Who cares what you think about the ARTISTIC CRAFT of songwriting & poetry.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:00am

Re: Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
However, the insults, === HONESTLY felt

incomplete sentences,== It is a posting board ,, i got a busy day

and liberal use of symbols to disguise profanity===== as opposed to the Sh#cks here , who write from the gutter of life

makes what you look like a jackass rather than a participant in a reasonable discussion +======= FROM an idiot like you ,, that is a compliment
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:02am

First ... You should put that rant to music.
Bob Dylan , did it for me ,, and better :

Positively Fourth Street.

The greatest , "you are really a shmuck" song EVER written.

Nice J -- O -- B !!!

BOB !!!!!!!!

http://video.mail.ru/inbox/mtchng_mol/2907/2920.html
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Jay (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:03am

Re: Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
Amen. But we've tried to reason with him. He continues to hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.
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Jay (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:06am

Re: Re: I'm fairly against this
No, give a reason. Or else your reasoning is faulty.
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Jay (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:16am

Steel wolf
I give a reply at the bottom. From past experience, it's better to have new posts at the bottom than in a confusing thread.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:17am

hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.
Me : No hides behind an innate DISABILITY -- physical or Bio-biological.

Being disabled -- at any level -- means "bravely confronting" one's disability EVERY day ,---- often in pain and mental stress,,

To meet , defeat , and overcome , the Disability.

To turn the "dis-advantage of disability" into the "Advantage of accomplishment"---- and the joy that "true accomplishment" through "sweat and pain and hard work" brings.

Learn a little about LIFE -- will you .

READ MORE -- WRITE LESS
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:19am

Re: . If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.
So now you're determining who is and isn't an artist? I'm an artist, are you going to tell me I'm not because I disagree with you?
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:21am

Re: 100/100
just give it all to ME :) ,,

I will make sure everybody gets their fair share !!!
-------------------
But ASCAP does that already ,, hmmmm
-------------------------------------
so , now ,, I can smoke a cigge ,

and deposit my yearly royalty check , of $56.93 -- which is better than 95% of struggling songwriters do.
============================
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Jay (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:22am

Ignore TP
@ Steelwolf

I was at odds about even the idea of a collection agency.

You've put it much more aptly than I could, and I like the reasoning.

"Collection societies are all about shaking down small businesses for payments they can distribute to their own executives and a few major artists. Independents and smaller artists don't need them, they need to be heard. Then it's up to the artist to offer scarcities these incoming potential fans can buy. Don't expect to sit on your laurels and get checks every time a coffee shop plays your song, as if they're not doing -you- the favor."

With the advent of Myspace, Facebook and other, more personal ways to connect, any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply. The bigger artists can have radio if need be since it's in the rules. But as the internet is showing, it's the ones such as Gym Class Heroes, or even GirlTalk, who are becoming the artists of tomorrow.
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Hephaestus (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:30am

Re: Re: How about this?//First off we need a system
"Copyright is about "artist's rights" not "audience desires""

Actually, its not about rights at all, its about a health public domain.
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Hephaestus (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:34am

Re: Re: 100/100
"and deposit my yearly royalty check , of $56.93"

no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:38am

it's better to have new posts at the bottom than in a confusing thread.
true ,, i do it all the time
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:42am

Re: Re: . If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.
a lot of artist , THINK they are artists.

Painting and writing,, your ego can judge your skills ..

When YOU sit next to Eric Clapton ,, you can't fake your atheistic ARTISTIC skills.

Being a musician is like studying the "force " to become a Jedi.

You can fake out a master.

Many musicians call me "master" -- REALLY.

And Eric Clapton -- he is the "High Master" "Musical Jedi."
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:44am

Actually, its not about rights at all, its about a health public domain.
Sorry ,,,wrong.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:45am

Re: Re: Re: 100/100 === no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...
You miss the satire , you fool
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:48am

Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
"any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply."

ME : VERY TRUE !11 I love how the internet help me publizice my Music.

As LONG , as I have COPYRIGHT ARTISTIC CONTROL 100%

-- heck I will even take 90% online -- till the copyright laws and technologies catch up with cyber-space
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Hephaestus (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: 100/100 === no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...
satire ( ) n. A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.

Checklist
irony - nope
derision - nope
wit - not at all

"But ASCAP does that already ,, hmmmm"

sarcasm perhaps ... better luck next time
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:56am

Re: Re: Re: . If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.
I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:57am

Re: hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.
a lot of dyslexics , THINK they are dyslexics.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:58am

Re: Actually, its not about rights at all, its about a health public domain.
The public domain is the rule and copyright is the exception to that rule.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 8:59am

Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
Are you a technologist? If not you really shouldn't comment, should you?
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Hephaestus (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:06am

Re: Actually, its not about rights at all, its about a health public domain.
You are granted a short term monopoly under copyright to profit from your works. It has to do with giving you a short term incentive to create. It is meant for the good of society not the artist.

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

The section "useful arts" refers to the works of artisans, people skilled in manufacturing. Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:08am

Technopolitical is an astroturfer he is not serious just paid to be trolling LoL
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:09am

Re: Re: hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.//a lot of dyslexics , THINK they are dyslexics.
actually ..no,,,there are objective tests
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:11am

Re: astroturfer
You mean "Asrto-web-surfer"
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:11am

"-- heck I will even take 90% online -- till the copyright laws and technologies catch up with cyber-space"

LoL 90% LoL

LMAOROTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Big studio manager moment)
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:12am

Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
http://technopoliticalscience.blogspot.com/

my techo-political blog for 10 years now
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:13am

Re: Re: astroturfer
Do you get paid more after normal business hours?
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:14am

LMAOROTF, Laughing My Ass Off Rolling on the Floor
LMAOROTF, Laughing My Ass Off Rolling on the Floor
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
You want me to build a blog now and post it here saying I have for 10 years now too? I can do that...nah I wouldn't, I'm not getting paid for it LoL

BTW your career in politics that took most of your life started after you decided to go to college when you was 37, so tell us are you 75 years old?
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:19am

Are you going to start listing your allegedly academic accomplishments to try and force people to respect you more?

That is good for a few laughs LoL
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:19am

Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.
The section "useful arts" refers to the works of artisans, people skilled in manufacturing. Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.

ANS : then why brake the law to download musician song illegally.

OR BUY THEM WITH $$$-- if your a nice person.

MUSIC IS A VALUABLE ART !!

A world w/o the BEATLEs would not be as nice

------------

The Beatles (George)- "Think For Yourself"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aADNhnQq-YU

listen to the WORDS !!!!!!!!
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:20am

Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?

LoL
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:22am

Re: Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.
The words from a liar like you?
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SteelWolf (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:25am

Re: Ignore TP
You've put it much more aptly than I could

Thanks! That's got to be a first for me.

Jesting aside, I think you make a good point. And without royalties and other tedious "rights" organizations, radio stations and other mainstream venues can rapidly jump on the popularity bandwagon. Those internet-famous artists (and, I believe, any artist) can more easily expand their reach when anybody, be it blogger or radio DJ, can play and share their music.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:38am

I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.
I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.

ANS: very true . I agree 100%. I think therefore I am.

I make art , I am an Artist.

But you can still e a bad Artist,,, with zero respect of your Artistic peers.

but only Clapton , can tell me I am a good musical Artist. ( for me ,, Bob Dylan would not count guitar-wise , ( Sorry Bob , but i know you understand my point. Love ya' Bob !!)
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:40am

"The public domain is the rule and copyright is the exception to that rule."
By CONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:41am

Re: I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.
You're not making any sense.
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:42am

Re: I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.
"But you can still e a bad Artist,,, with zero respect of your Artistic peers. "

Better than being an astroturfer liar without morals.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:42am

Re: Re: Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.
No George Harrison's words in the song.

--------- you fool.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:42am

Re: "The public domain is the rule and copyright is the exception to that rule."
In the United States, which, last I checked, is not the entire world.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 100/100 === no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...
"sarcasm perhaps ... better luck next time"

Me : point granted. (Irony)
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:43am

Re: Re: Re: Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.
I'm a fool but you are a liar.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:43am

Re: Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.
MUSIC IS A VALUABLE ART !!

Painting is much more valuable.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
Actually is grew out my "Independent Study Senior thesis" "for my BA" in "political science ", from a "top 50 school."

I got an "A"
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 100/100 === no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...
At 75 years old people need to excuse Technopolitical the astroturfer liar because his logic is not what it used to be.
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B, 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
And besides lying what else you did get and A for?
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:52am

Re: Are you going to start listing your allegedly academic accomplishments to try and force people to respect you more?
YOU :Are you going to start listing your allegedly academic accomplishments :

ME : not alleged,, very well factual . want references?

YOU :to try and force people to respect you more?

Me : Respect form a Pirate is not true respect. Respect for moral , peace-loving sane human beings --- that is RESPECT .
=========================
RESPECT : Aretha Franklin -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0XAI-PFQcA

Aretha Franklin -- "the Queen of rock & soul;" -- it really does not get any better than this musically. ( not only a great singer,, but she also she plays piano like an angel too.)
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:55am

Aretha Franklin -- "the Queen of rock & soul;
even better version:

Aretha Franklin -- "the Queen of rock & soul;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSdFTVhFyyc&feature=related

Aretha Franklin - Respect

( she is soooooooooo great,,, makes you , or anyone with a soul .. cry )
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 9:57am

Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?

I make Alot of sense,, you cannot get a BA with honors form a top 50 school w/o making sense.

as well , i am an Orthodox rabbi ,, the hardest study there is .. Even doctors cede to Rabbis for final say -- in my culture
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:09am

You can NOT fake out a master.
corrected
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A, 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
Ok now you are:

- A rabbi
- An ex musician with 20 years experience.
- A political science BA that worked in politics most of his life from a the top 50 college and knows the president liar Obama.

Fine you have no shame.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
Way to brag on the internet!
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:15am

Re: Re: "The public domain is the rule and copyright is the exception to that rule."
soon. We still got most all the nukes. :)

Randy Newman - Political Science ( "Drop the Big One !"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGO42gvCSPI

soooooo,, good

===========================

#
1. RANDY NEWMAN - POLITICAL SCIENCE LYRICS
Jan 13, 2010 ... Political Science lyrics performed by Randy Newman. ... from our own government will someday depend on our will to "Drop the Big One". ...
www.sing365.com/...Randy-Newman/E5E5C50CCA8ECFC048256A3700478B4C - Cached - Similar - Filter - History
#
2. RANDY NEWMAN, "POLITICAL SCIENCE"
And there'll be Italian shoes for me! They all hate us anyhow. So let's drop the big one now, Let's drop the big one now! "Political Science", Randy Newman.
www.papillonsartpalace.com/ranndy.htm - Cached - Similar - Filter - History
#
3. Randy Newman - Political Science Lyrics
Let's drop the big one / There'll be no one left to blame us / We'll save Australia / Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo / We'll build an All American amusement ...
www.lyricstime.com/randy-newman-political-science-lyrics.html - Cached - Similar - Filter - History
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D, 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:17am

Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
Please tell us when did you get the time to become a rabbi, was when you was doing drugs and touring, or was when you got to college at 37 and somehow got to expend "most of your life" in politics LoL

Was it on sundays you got your rabbi certificate from the mail order?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:24am

Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
Are you a rocket scientist too? Because you're a 'musician' (which I have my doubts about being able to call you that without quotes after having been to your MySpace account), an Orthodox rabbi, a "Technopolitical blogger", dyslexic, flew planes in World War II, invented electricity, and met the president and showed him you were shot in the butt.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:28am

Painting is much more valuable.
You :Painting is much more valuable.

Question : do you mean fiancailly or culturally , or both ?

I do not disagree.

but in the ARTS , the Axiom is:

"All bow to the musician" -- the deepest of all arts.

Picasso is cool ,but he ain't gonna to sell out Giant's Stadium for folks to watch him paint.

Stand in line for hours m at the MMOMA,, yes,, you BET !!!!
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:29am

Re: Painting is much more valuable.
MoMA | The Museum of Modern Art
The Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) is a place that fuels creativity, ignites minds, and provides inspiration. Its extraordinary exhibitions and collection of ...
www.moma.org/
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
Braging no . I state facts about me . Like one would @ a job interview.

But here @ techdirt ,, I am just explaining myself against "baseless accusations" towards my "intelligence" and "academic integrity"

=================================
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:37am

Re: Re: Re: astroturfer
this is a hobby.

I hag a paying gig last nite , in the Village of Greenwich NYC ,, did not get home till 3am. woke at 10am,, and now am watch BUFFY at you tube ,,till tonite's gig.

I have seen BUFFY 10x already , still love it each time ,, techdirt -- is just fun, -- and my technopolitical hobby.

http://technopoliticalscience.blogspot.com/
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Jay (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:39am

Re: Re: hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.
Amen. Other things are the fact that he continues to use petty insults. He doesn't respond to people's arguments merely referring to his blog and supposed double degrees. Somehow that's supposed to make him "smarter" than anyone else. Which isn't the case. As you learn in any English class, you have three things going for you in a debate:

Ethos - expertise or knowledge in an area or personal appeal

Logos - your logic

Pathos - emotional appeal
---------------------------------------------

When discussing with him, I feel that he hurts his ethos the most. By constantly referring to others in a derogative manner, he shows that either he is a child in the game of debate (ironic with the degree he supposedly has) or else he really has no message worth listening to.

When you try to appeal to his logic, he unfortunately reverts back to the same petty arguments and insults. So logos is out the door. When he is confronted with logic in any way, he swerves that argument to one side by telling you something to the effect of "Go to Law School" or just not answering.

Pathos usually comes with being able to interact through the first two. However, the "Silent Majority" may not agree. When I read his words, I'm swayed against them because they make little to no sense and are quite confusing. Oh well, perhaps one day he'll learn.

I can't stop his responses. Just quietly disagree with someone who has a disjointed mindset.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:41am

Re: Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
my full non-musical resume :

http://technopoliticalscience.blogspot.com/search/label/my%20full%20resume

my music :
http://www.myspace.com/radamhalperin

my homepage:

http://sites.google.com/site/rahalperin2/home
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 10:59am

Re: Re: Re: "The public domain is the rule and copyright is the exception to that rule."
The future will not be kind to the control freaks.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:01am

Re: Painting is much more valuable.
Picasso is cool ,but he ain't gonna to sell out Giant's Stadium for folks to watch him paint.

I heard attendance for live music events are down this year. I wonder why?

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2010/06/16/live-nation-cancels-shows/
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:02am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.
I don't think those accusations are actually baseless.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:03am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
Oh I get it! You're a marketing tool.
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Self important, 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:15am

Re: Re:
Dork with acoustic guitar and lame music who acts like he is a professional artist.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:16am

YOU the "AC" :"Oh I get it! You're a marketing tool."
brilliant comment .. the Earth is shaking ! (sarcasm)
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harbingerofdoom (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
dude...
after checking out your music and your site and getting some context in which to frame your comments here it leads me to only one simple thing i can tell you.

drugs are bad mmmmkay?
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:17am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
except pot , beer , and coffee. ( tobacco , when i want it ,, organic American Spirit.)
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Self important, 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:18am

Re: Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
go to his myspace... and have a good laugh!!
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:20am

Re: Re: Re:
I have been called worse , by much better people than you .
(usually i solicit the criticism,, that is how one grows stronger and better and wiser.)
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:22am

Re: Re: I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.
Better than being an astroturfer liar without morals.

Me : lying is against my religion. (seriously)
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Technoretardical, 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:24am

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=418825547&albumID=55 8905&imageID=3963749
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:25am

You've literally just said "fuck you" to Mike because he agrees that more obscure musicians don't get their fair share of the pie.
YOU: You've literally just said "fuck you" to Mike because he agrees that more obscure musicians don't get their fair share of the pie.

Me : Sorry. I believe ASCAP and BMI , do a great job for Musicians and songwriters , all the way around.

Mike disagrees, AND who cares what Mike thinks on this point-- he is no ARTIST -- that is clear.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:27am

Re: Re: Re: hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.
READ MORE ---WRITE LESS
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:29am

Re:The future will not be kind to the control freaks.
unless we are in Control of everything :)
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:32am

Re: Re: Painting is much more valuable.///I heard attendance for live music events are down this year. I wonder why?
YOU :I heard attendance for live music events are down this year. I wonder why?

ANS : the economy that Bush and Cheney ruined,, and that Mr. Obama is now ---slowly--- fixing.

(Read newspapers much?)
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:35am

BTW your career in politics that took most of your life started after you decided to go to college when you was 37, so tell us are you 75 years old?
simple math. in 1995 when i re-started college i was 37 years old.

MATH !!!! think!!!
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:36am

Re: I don't think those accusations are actually baseless.
Anonymous Coward,
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Richard (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 11:45am

Re: Re: How about this?//First off we need a system
Copyright is about "artist's rights" not "audience desires"

If you have no audience then you won't get far...

He who pays the piper calls the tune.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.
Try taking your own advice.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re:The future will not be kind to the control freaks.
Sounds like fascism!
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Painting is much more valuable.///I heard attendance for live music events are down this year. I wonder why?
Fuck you.
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Richard (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:16pm

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.
ob , well he already wrote a song about you Mike and copyright called:

Positively Fourth Street.

and this is the song about you:

http://everything2.com/title/I+am+the+very+model+of+a+newsgroup+personality
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: Re:The future will not be kind to the control freaks.
Benevolent ARTIST rulers, of the ARTISTIC Global Empire !
May the Force be with you !!

--------------------------

Philosopher king - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Philosopher kings are the hypothetical rulers, or Guardians, of Plato's Utopian Kallipolis. If his ideal city-state is to ever come into being, ...
In Book VII of The Republic - Criticism - See also - References
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_king
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:The future will not be kind to the control freaks.
Still sounds like fascism!
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Painting is much more valuable.///I heard attendance for live music events are down this year. I wonder why?
another brilliant Anonymous Coward, -- yes your why
techdert is SOOOOO mainstream,,

and well respected in

elite academic establishments,

Law schools ,

and Congress.
------------------------------

Q: What would we do w/o Anonymous Cowards -- like you !!!

A: Live better
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:33pm

If you have no audience then you won't get far...
ANS : there is ALWAYS

ART

for
A R T S

SAKE
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 12:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Painting is much more valuable.///I heard attendance for live music events are down this year. I wonder why?
Seriously, fuck you.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 1:14pm

Re: If you have no audience then you won't get far...
Until someone wants to use that old art to make new art then someone has to get paid. And if the artist doesn't have the money then no art will be made.

And it's ars gratia artis.
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Technoloser, 16 Jun 2010 @ 1:18pm

Dude, his whole blog is just a series of grammar-challenged rants against Masnick. What an obsessive loser!
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aguywhoneedstenbucks (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 1:43pm

Re:
The problem is that he keeps getting a response. He has proven that no matter how foolish he look that he will continue to yell out nonsensical phrases instead of having a discourse with the rest of us. Several people have tried, and several others just railed right back at him (like that ever helps).

If you find his stuff amusing, keep on making comments like this. It'll keep him fueled up and shouting. I personally think it's kind of funny, so I've thrown a few comments his way. However, this has pretty much run it's course in this particular thread so I think it's about time to ignore him for a while and let him fade into obscurity.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 2:45pm

Re: Dude, his whole blog is just a series of grammar-challenged rants against Masnick. What an obsessive loser!
just the last 50 posts of so,, and they are rants FOR better COPYRIGHT ,, but showing how wacky Mike positions are.

There are 500 posts on my blog,, all labeled by topic,, there is much more than copyright there .
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Research site:http://technopolitical.blogspot.com/

Current events site :http://technopoliticalscience.blogspot.com/

MORE READING -- less WRITING
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 2:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?
it is very all truce,, again , I can e-mail you FULL references. and their full contacts.

Yes hard to believe someone of my stature would waste his time here at techdirt,, but i work form home alot ,, and actually enjoy it. And maybe i will reform a few Pirates.
--------------------------------------

I can also throw a Frisbee very well with either hand,,,

Was the best "stick-ball" "switch hitter" in my hometown, And a much better than average pitcher,,, played "table soccer" a a professional level in the late 1970's,

And wide receivers in high school , hated me too, because in pick up games .. i was the as about good as a defensive back as you can be-- just try catching the ball in my zone.

Basketball I suck , soccer too,, except for being goalie , where i am very good.

--------------------------------

If you search around the internet on me ,, from my blogs and stuff , you can verify EVERYTHING I post here about myself, 3x over.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 3:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:The future will not be kind to the control freaks.
Your under arrest.

As Ruler and King , of the "First Galactic Artist's Empire" :

I sentence to to a life of learning,
with no earning.

( think about it )
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 3:14pm

TP , you are a liar !!!!!
WHERE ?

I am calling you out on that one.

WHERE ,, you show me where , i have lies in ANY POST EVER here , on on my blogs.
------------------------------------------
Call my references : the ONLY complaint I get :
I am TOO honest,

Needs to be a little more diplomatic sometimes.

( My ans : tough , nice guys loose debates and elections.)
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 3:24pm

And if the artist doesn't have the money then no art will be made.
Starving Artists -- never starve ,

People will ALWAYS give , love , Money. kisses , food , huggs , and a bed ,, ,,

and with girls it is usually to share the bed.

I know it is only rock n' roll

But I like It !!!!

------------

I am also a multi-media DJ :

the Rolling Stones :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhHODhTIvgo

AND LISTEN TO THE WORD HERE , Mick lyrics here ,

in my humble opinion:

Best song in rock-- about rock

Rolling Stones - It's Only Rock 'n Roll (But I Like It)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhHODhTIvgo

[ and Kieth you still owe me a quarter , from 1984. :) ]
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 3:29pm

Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 6:25 pm Comment Held for Moderation...
ME : Whats the deal MIKE ? Am i breaking ant posting rules?

Please inform me of the techdirt posting policy.

I do not see one posted .

-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, June 16, 2010
Comment Held for Moderation...

Thanks for your comment.
It will be reviewed by our staff before it is posted.

Back to the story.
http://techdirt.com/comment_process.php

6:25 pm June 16th
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 3:34pm

Re: Re:
I cannot help if if you are not smart or educated enough to understand my posts , my reasoning therein ,, and how , i back you Pirates in to admitting I am right.

When ever i prove my points here ,, some AC write --- something like "FU moron" !!!

At least you wrote nicely -- an I do really appreciate that.

You are full of it -- but you wrote nice
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Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 4:24pm

Re: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 6:25 pm Comment Held for Moderation...
Comment Held for Moderation...

The spam filter picked up your comment, because of the way you spelled something. It's similar to the spelling of a regularly spammed item in the comments, and the spam engine rated it as likely to be spam.

I cleared it. Every so often legit comments get caught by the spam filter. We then clear them. No need to act like you were targeted personally.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 4:49pm

Re: Re: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 6:25 pm Comment Held for Moderation...
just asking ,, was not accusing.
-------------------

MIKE :Every so often legit comments get caught.

Me : thanks for the "legit" validation. I am honored.
-----------------
But do you have a posting policy ?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Jun 2010 @ 5:36pm

Re: Re: Re:
Fucking moron.
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Gene Cavanaugh, 16 Jun 2010 @ 6:41pm

Welfare for musicians and artists no one wants to hear or see
Many, many years ago, Australia tried that. It became the "in" thing to have some music or art from someone who just happened to have some of your art, and so everyone was a qualified artist and/or musicians (often both, since it doubled the take).
Some of the worst music and art I have ever seen or heard, but that's okay; they were paid for it.
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Jay (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:25pm

Re: Welfare for musicians and artists no one wants to hear or see
That's the reason I'm against any type of "social welfare" that's government owned. The demand shifts downward and it makes it so that people aren't really doing anything. They do just enough for money to come in then stop.

In order to really have musicians come make better and more music, you want them to give themselves incentives. Getting to the top of the charts is an incentive. Better deals with their publishing studio is an incentive.

New ways to be heard (filesharing, P2P) is an incentive. Sadly that's what we're losing in the battle against technology.
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Technopolitical (profile), 16 Jun 2010 @ 7:51pm

Please tell us when did you get the time to become a rabbi, was when you was doing drugs and touring, or was when you got to college at 37 and somehow got to expend "most of your life" in politics LoL
YOU :"Please tell us when did you get the time to become a rabbi,"

ME::: Three full years at an very Orthodox Chasidic Yeshiva ( no girls ) 1995-1998. I was living in the dorm , ate slept and lived there for three full years , aged 37-40. ( You hear alot about Kabalah , "Madonna style" , well I was studing the original Hebrew Kabalistic Texts for 3 full years. Was awarded a BA in Judaic Studies , 1998. ( www.rca.edu )

After that after , I comenced full time Academic & Judaic Studies at Yeshiva Univesity in NYC [ 1998-2003] . ( www.yu.edu ) At YU ,, you study Jewish stuff 9am to 1pm ,, then secular subjects the rest of the day. It is a top 50 college , and Yishiva University has both a Medical School ( Albert Eistein) and a law School ( Cardozza ).

YOU : ,was when you was doing drugs and touring,

Me : I have never toured. I have always played music in NYC , 90% Greenwich Village .

I try not to waste time in life. I work , learn , love , and laugh all the waking hours of my day.

Yeah sometime , I watch a movie , chill with a few brews,, but the conversation is always meaning full.

( Life secret : Try to make friend with people smarter and wiser than yourself. Life will be an adventure of learning and challenge)

YOU : or was when you got to college at 37 and somehow got to expend "most of your life" in politics LoL.

ME : Again see resume link below : form 1980- 1995 ,, I split my life between paid salaried strait job s ( NYPIRG , Greenpeace & political campaigns ) , and my Music.

I was not alone ,, I know many who lead the same lifestyle in NYC , and still do. Most every "pro" musician in NYC ,, has a strait job ,, unless signed to a big record deal ( or a rich girl friend /boy friend) , you have no choice. Gigs do not play well, A good guitar cost $1000 min.

ME ::
my resume :
http://technopoliticalscience.blogspot.com/search/label/my%20full%20resume

my musical history blog at my space

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=418825547&blogId=486949 645

also
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=418825547&blogId=47728708 6
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Brian (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 1:53am

the blanket license is a massive fraud
The banket license, used by PROs is a massive fraud, a fraud on licensees and a fraud on PRO members or affils. PROs are all racketeering influenced corrupt organizations and should be broken up into regional or state based PROs. The anti-trust laws should be used to shut them down and toss their executives into a padded cell or jail.
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Richard (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 2:10am

Re: Re: How about this?//First off we need a system
You ain't a musician,----- you ain't "WE"

1. You don't actually know that - so you are making assumptions again - and many of your assumptions have turned out to be wrong before.

2. So only the lunatics should have a say in running the asylum
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Technopolitical (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 3:11am

actually , yes , I do know you are not a musician. /// Re: How about this?//First off we need a system
actually , yes , I do know you are not a musician.

1] you have never mentioned it , in ANY you 300,000 words written about my posts the last few weeks.

2] it is no where on supposed facility page

3] it is clear from your posting here ,, you have ZERO "atheistic artistic life perspective".

4] Artists -- it takes one to know one,

------------------------

And again Rich, where do you find the time to post in any and every thread a browse here.

I just have been reading this thread since mike started it ,, but beside , browsing the posts front pat ,, i have not entered or read any other threads here in days.
----------------------------------------------

[ of course w/o yours truly , most threads @ techdirt are boring ,, mine get the highest web traffic "ratings"--- right Mike ? :) ]
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Technopolitical (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 3:12am

2. So only the l Musicians should have a say in running the Music Biz !!!
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Technopolitical (profile), 17 Jun 2010 @ 3:22am

Re: Re: Welfare for musicians and artists no one wants to hear or see
"That's the reason I'm against any type of "social welfare" that's government owned. The demand shifts downward and it makes it so that people aren't really doing anything. They do just enough for money to come in then stop. In order to really have musicians come make better and more music, you want them to give themselves incentives. Getting to the top of the charts is an incentive. Better deals with their publishing studio is an incentive."

------------------------

My Answer :

Lou Reed for PRESIDENT in 2016.

Jackson Browne would by my choice for VP , Lou ; but the rest of the cabinet got to be "Gov't pros",, the world is an important place -- as musicians are too humble to be complete dictators of policies-- (rightly so.)

( hey dudes , in "1968" , "Ronald Regan for President" , was a wackier idea than Lou Reed in 2016,))
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Jay (profile), 29 Jun 2010 @ 9:25am

Re: You've literally just said "fuck you" to Mike because he agrees that more obscure musicians don't get their fair share of the pie.
Yeah, their recent letter really showed their best side. Especially when they want to go to war with the EFF and the Creative Commons against what a lot of artists felt was a low blow.

Good job on insulting someone that was trying to expose the darker side of the industry.
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Could Collection Societies Help Up-And-Coming Artists With A 20/80 Distribution System?

from the one-idea dept

Reader Comments

Sorry Mike...

Re: Sorry Mike...

Re: Sorry Mike...

I'm fairly against this

I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

How about this?

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

"propping up the top ... holding back new comers"

Re: I'm fairly against this

Re: "soshalisms!"

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

Re: Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

Re: How about this?//First off we need a system

Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

PRS/PPL just give their money to the big boys

Re: Re: "soshalisms!"

100/100

Re: I'm fairly against this

Re:

. If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.

Re: Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

First ... You should put that rant to music.

Re: Re: I tend to think that once they get the right to collect they begin to abuse that power in ways that actually harm musicians and songwriters more than help them.

Re: Re: I'm fairly against this

Steel wolf

hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.

Re: . If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.

Re: 100/100

Ignore TP

Re: Re: How about this?//First off we need a system

Re: Re: 100/100

it's better to have new posts at the bottom than in a confusing thread.

Re: Re: . If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.

Actually, its not about rights at all, its about a health public domain.

Re: Re: Re: 100/100 === no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...

Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.

Re: Re: Re: Re: 100/100 === no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...

Re: Re: Re: . If this is an example of your song writing, you need to learn how to fry chips.

Re: hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.

Re: Actually, its not about rights at all, its about a health public domain.

Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.

Re: Actually, its not about rights at all, its about a health public domain.

Re: Re: hide behind "dyslexia" as a crutch.//a lot of dyslexics , THINK they are dyslexics.

Re: astroturfer

Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.

Re: Re: astroturfer

LMAOROTF, Laughing My Ass Off Rolling on the Floor

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.

Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.

Re: Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.

Re: Ignore TP

I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.

"The public domain is the rule and copyright is the exception to that rule."

Re: I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.

Re: I don't think I'm an artist, I actually am one because I make art and have been all my life.

Re: Re: Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.

Re: "The public domain is the rule and copyright is the exception to that rule."

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 100/100 === no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...

Re: Re: Re: Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.

Re: Also I dont see musicians covered by that clause in anyway.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 100/100 === no wonder you are such a bitter, nasty, obnoxious individual ...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.

Re: Are you going to start listing your allegedly academic accomplishments to try and force people to respect you more?

Aretha Franklin -- "the Queen of rock & soul;

Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?

You can NOT fake out a master.

Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ignore TP //any artist or independent can connect to their fans much more simply.

Re: Re: "The public domain is the rule and copyright is the exception to that rule."

Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?

Re: Re: Do you think you are the only one that can be annoying without having to say anything that makes sense?

Painting is much more valuable.

Re: Painting is much more valuable.