US ISP Suddenlink Claims The DMCA Requires They Disconnect Users
from the more-like-Sudden-UN-link dept
TorrentFreak has the news that US cable ISP Suddenlink has implemented its own form of a three strikes policy, and defends it by falsely claiming the DMCA requires it. Torrentfreak has the transcript of a discussion between a customer who has been cut off and a Suddenlink rep blaming the DMCA:Customer: I want to reconnect my internet service. They said I got 3 DMCA letters and they said that by law I had to be disconnected. Is that true?This is, of course, not true. The DMCA has no requirement that ISPs disconnect people after three accusations (not convictions) -- and it especially doesn't say that ISPs don't need to offer a refund when they do this. For all the fighting by the record labels trying to get a three strikes policy into law and complaining about the DMCA, perhaps it makes them happy to know that some ISPs are simply pretending the DMCA is a three strikes policy.
Suddenlink rep: Yes, your internet was disconnected due to DMCA. When the internet is disconnected due to DMCA, it can not be reconnected for a minimum of 6 months.
Customer: The DMCA makes that requirement?
Suddenlink rep: Yes.
Customer: So you're stating, for the record, that by law, the DMCA law, that you have to disconnect users for receiving 3 DMCA letters?
Suddenlink rep: You have no choice in the matter.
Suddenlink rep: It is the DMCA policy that it can not be reconnected for 6 months.
Suddenlink rep: It may be the DMCA policy or it may be the way we go about following the DMCA guidelines.
Customer: The law states that?
Suddenlink rep: Once the 3rd offense occurs, it can not be reconnected for 6 months.
Suddenlink Rep: The information I have on the DMCA states: This law was enacted in 1998 to protect against illegal downloading of copyrighted material like movies, music, etc. As an Internet Service Provider (ISP), Suddenlink , and other ISPs, must implement a policy of terminating internet service of customers who repeatedly share copyrighted files.
Of course, customers may think otherwise, and may prefer to find an ISP that actually believes in due process and actually supports its users against unsubstantiated accusations of file sharing.
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Filed Under: copyright, disconnect, dmca, isps, three strikes
Companies: suddenlink
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If you have violated those terms of service by pirating, and do not stop after repeated warnings, they are well within their rights to disconnect you.
It is well known ISP's often profit from piracy. I commend SuddenLink for standing up for what is right in these actions, and not just what brings in the most money.
I hope more ISP's will take the initiative to do the same.
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Re:
Indeed. They're absolutely within their rights to do so.
But claiming it's because of the DMCA is a lie.
It is well known ISP's often profit from piracy.
Huh? It is not "well known." Please prove it. As far as I can tell, ISPs lose money from such activities, since it tends to use more bandwidth for the same fees.
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Sigh
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Some math
I am guessing that either a)they got a new lawyer who is being over cautious or b)someone from the recording industry got to a naive executive in the company and convinced them that DCMA required the ISP to kick off customers.
If they kick off many customers, someone on the finance side of the company is going to look at the revenue line and bring the ISP to its financial senses.
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Re:
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The law doesn't have to mandate 3 strikes for ISP's to take that up as their policy. You are not guaranteed a contract with an ISP under the constitution any more than you are guaranteed one with the electric/gas company.
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Re:
So they don't really force you to do anything. If you don't like the disconnection, you can take your business elsewhere.
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VOIP
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Re: Re:
You mean I should be able to send 3 letters with no proof and have them boot everyone off of their service? "Because I said so" does not make it true.
Merely accusing someone of something does not make it true.
I could call you an idiot shill for stupid ideas, but that does not make it... er bad example.... nevermind.
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Profiting from piracy? Bullshit.
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Re:
"
You see, the problem is that I don't need to do anything. They don't need any proof to kick me out, just an accusation.
How funny would it be if you got sent to jail just because the cops overheard some guy mentioning to some guy that he heard from an alleged cousin that maybe someone that looked like you was smuggling crack? Not so funny huh?
Well, that's basically what you are supporting here. Good luck.
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For now ... as clearly stated in the post - in the future your ass is grass
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I doubt he will pay for content in the near future.
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Followers of the pedobono cult.
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The US doesn't have law protecting private individuals from breach of contract? Those poor people.
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Re: Maybe Anonymous Shouldn't Be Anonymous
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In something like this, they are ironclad safe if they just make it part of their TOS and then point to the TOS when it happens. but by making their customer service reps lie and point out that its because of the DMCA they in fact do open themselves to liability.
can they legally cut people off like that? oh hell yes.
are they complete MORANS for telling their CSRs (most of whom think DMCA is a rap group from the 80s) to lie? absolutely.
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Likewise if Suddenlink decides it doesn't like pirates using their service then they have the right to kick people off just because for no good reason. The fact that God told them to do it or because the DMCA says so is completely irrelevant.
Does that make them a bad ISP? You can't answer that without knowing if the person was actually doing any sort of illegal downloading.
I would still like to believe there are good people in this world who are working in good businesses. As an ISP, I think Suddenlink can easily determine who is doing what and kick the baddies off their service.
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Re:
If said TOS policies state that alleged DMCA violations will result in disconnection then yes.
If the TOS contains no such clause and they're only using the DMCA as the reason for disconnection then no.
There is no suggestion in the above conversation that a clause in the company's TOS states any such thing, and so the company are in violation of the contract, and guilty of fraud if no refund is offered.
"If you have violated those terms of service by pirating, and do not stop after repeated warnings, they are well within their rights to disconnect you."
Please point to the section of the DMCA that requires them to do this, or failing that the part of the company's TOS that states this.
"It is well known ISP's often profit from piracy."
Only in the minds of desperate **AA members, unless you have any proof that this is true (and no, "people like to use fast broadband" is not proof).
"I hope more ISP's will take the initiative to do the same."
Fraudulently take money from consumers without offering service? Funny way to run a business.
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Perhaps you support that, though.
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Re:
There have been many cases where the information sent to the ISP is wrong; or where the information linked to by the DMCA notice sender has it wrong; or where there's copyfraud going on.
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Glad they're not my ISP. Pity the suckers forced to use them.
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Re: Glad they're not my ISP. Pity the suckers forced to use them.
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Re:
Do you see a problem here?
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Suddenlink is not alone in this
Three strikes and you're out. No proof, no method of redress with the provider.
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Sudinlink Killed my dreams
They sued the public utility district because they were going to bring cheap fiber to my doorstep. Pore sudden links crappy service couldn’t compete so they have been tied up in litigation milking me dry for over five years.
There tech support sucks, there installers are worthless and their service is unreliable.
On the plus side though they use docsis 1.0 they pants around there ankles from a security standpoint. My suggestion to anyone that got kicked without a refund get a hacked surfboard modem and keep on surfing!
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Re: VOIP
Really, I don't have a problem with them dropping pirates.... if they are proven to be that in a little thing called A COURT OF LAW!
Unfortunately, SuddenLink wants to say "Just because someone accuses you, you are guilty!" That don't fly and could very well lead to a civil suit that they would LOSE IMMEDIATELY!
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It's like a private organization firing you because you were arrested for pandering.... until you are CONVICTED of that, they are bucking for a civil suit against them!
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Re: Suddenlink is not alone in this
The companies who are doing this are STUPID because under the DMCA, they are golden! If these companies wish to do something to someone? THey can sue them, NOT extrajudicially have the ISP's cut someone off.... which by the way, is ILLEGAL, TOS or no, until someone is proven in a COURT OF LAW that they are infringing.
It's like someone yelling "THAT PERSON IS A CHILD MOLESTER!" and they are automatically thrown into prison without any real proof.
Even private corporations and citizens cannot do that bullshit.
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again slander and defamtion of character
SUE for the defamation to your character and then when you succeed here go after them for breech of contract and make sure you get a year or two plus lawyers fees
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Kinda funny, because if they had just cited their TOS then they'd probably get away with it (despite most TOS' being oh so one sided and potentially unfair contracts).
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maybe..
step 1. file hundreds of thousands of letters extorting cash...
step 2. get ppl kicked off their connection incorrectly
step 3. send hundreds of thousands of "we can represent you in a court and get you compensation....." letters
profit all the way...step 1 from copyright holders..step 2 from **IA etc... and step 3 from the customers themselves....
someone finally found a way to turn win-win into win-win-win (at least for the legal firms!)
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probably been said.
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Re:
The company is well within it's right to do whatever it wants to the customer.
Hell... I have the choice and the right to go out and stab someone in their fucking face any time I want.
Doesn't mean that you should and that there aren't consequences.
Moreover... There could possibly be some legalities involved in implicating federal laws as 'requiring' them to take certain 'predisposed' actions against their customers.
As it has already been said: There is NOTHING in the DMCA law that should/could be construed as any kind of advisement to ANY company on how to proceed in dealing with any situations that are related to the DMCA laws.
I would actually like for you to also provide us with some kind of documentation that supports your statement that ISP's profit from piracy. Be specific. "It gives them a customer base because it gives people a reason to need an internet connection" doesn't count, either.
I'm sure you won't be responding, though. Anonymous cowards like to post bullshit and never back it up when they're called on their own bullshit.
Suddenlink has their views on DMCA all fucked.
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Socialists?
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Surprised no one else linked here yet...
Want to question if the TOS allows disconnect with no refund/rebate?
Answer can be found above (somewhere... gave up after 13 pages and the fact their residental agreement has been superceeded by a "customer" one but cannot find the link)
Enjoy!
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However, I think I am attributing far more reason and intelligence to this particular person.
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They were probably fed that line of bull sh!t by some studio or label type wanting to get 3 strikes implememnted at that ISP. We know the content poviders are "Negotiating" 3 strikes with the ISPs here in the US. Perhaps SuddenLink doesn't have a very large legal staff and accepted them at their word.
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Re: Sigh
Most geographic locations have a maximum of three, count them THREE internet choices, not types mind you (although they usually match types: Cable, DSL, satellite), but there will only be three companies providing service to a particular location, due to govt. granted monopolies. Such bullshit.
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In TOS
6. NO INFRINGEMENT OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS
You agree that you will not use, nor allow others to use, the Internet Service to send or receive any information that infringes the intellectual property, including without limitation patents, trademarks, copyrights, trade secrets or proprietary rights of any other person or entity. This includes, but is not limited to digitized music, movies, books, photographs, art or other copyrighted materials or software, including Suddenlink-provided software.
- Acceptable Use Policy
If you continue to transfer Copyrighted Material illegally, you are violating Suddenlink's policies and Suddenlink may take further action, including limiting your Internet download capacity, suspending or terminating your account, or a range of other measures.
- Copyright Infringement Information FAQ
Still, saying it's required by the DMCA is very stupid. (No such claim is made in their TOS, of course.)
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Parents accused of possible bogus DMCA notices/complaints now need info/help to fight against RIAA/MPAA ISP 3 Strikes.
downloaded a copy of Inception from Warner Brothers. Because of this
They are claiming that due to the DMCA they "have to" disconnect my
parents internet access. **Now I have done some digging around on this
topic and have come to find out that the ISP's claim is false. No
where in the DMCA does it state that an ISP must disconnect a user
over a DMCA complaint. When I pushed Mediacom over this issue they
claimed their hands are tied. When they receive a complaint they must
turn off the user's internet access because they don't have a choice
or say in the matter. This I find very troublesome. how ever as to
Mediacom's claim that my parents downloaded this movie, not to insult
my mother but she lacks the mental ability to be able to understand
how to even download a movie or use P2P software. My father is just
lucky enough just to start the machine and that's it. Now granted I
don't know if this is just a bogus DMCA or the fault of a
malfunctioning router that allowed someone to get on to the wireless
signal. Either way I feel that this is bull shit of the highest level
for an ISP to be acting in such a way. Now I have filed a counter
notice on my mothers behalf to their "Mediacom Internet Enforcement
Team" "dmcaabuse@mediacomcc.com" I have also called their number
listed on the paper they sent her, (888)759-6135, how ever it only
leads to a customer service rep. who claims they don't have the number
to this department. how ever I feel that because the counter notice
was in a PDF format I think it was auto trashed as spam. If anyone can
help me on how to fight this, to a lawyer who will be willing to help
out please send me something.
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They make you basically promise it will not happen again.
I got one of these over a neighbor downloading a film through my wireless network, which is open, because some of my neighbors can't afford cable internet.
Sure, it is my fault for leaving my network open. I don;t deny that. I have since "closed" my connection to my neighbors, so to speak.
It doesn't seem like they really much care, as when I called a rep to inquire about it, he had no friggin' clue what I was talking about.
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opyright Infrengement
Thank you for letting me know what was going on.
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What can an ISP really do?
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Something is Still Unfair
sad.
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interesting retroactive termination from suddenlink
It�s been over a year now, I pay slightly more for slower DSL speeds but, I do not worry about letters (speculation) stemming from an undisclosed business relationship between Fox and Suddenlink in which Suddenlink receives benefits, perhaps VOD selection or rates, in exchange for overly aggressive copyright favoring DMCA policies.
Full disclosure: Former suddenlink employee and still current cable customer.
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Hi
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Dumb
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Anonymous is a stupid goon
Suddenlink's service is a joke. They've called my home at least twice, asking what we use our internet for. I do not download anything at all to be suspicious of. When asked why they were calling me with such a question and they said that they'd noticed a spike in activity.
Uh. I'm sure you did, I just signed back up with Netflix.
I really don't think it's their place to be monitoring what I do and calling me up to demand an accounting for our internet traffic. I've got no kids and my connection is secure. So basically I feel like I'm being berated for a service that I pay for.
I suspect that they've been turning me off when they feel I'm using the service too much, but I can't prove it.
Some of the stories here, in addition to what I've personally experienced, are infuriating.
Listen here Anonymous Fool, Suddenlink treats us like we're thieves---maybe I should send them a bill for all my work hours that their insufficient "service" caused me to lose. Which I might very well be able to do if I can prove that they're cutting me off on purpose.
Goons.
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Full Of Crap!!
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Trustworthiness
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DMCA
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suddenlink
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LOL
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CABLE BEING CUT BACK ON
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DMCA
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Response to: Anonymous on Sep 24th, 2010 @ 5:52pm
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Seriously WTF?!?
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Suddenlink 3-D MCA strike policy
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Suddenlink 3-D MCA strike policy
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Re:
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Any private company in the US has the right to refuse service.
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