Red Bull Cancels Stunt Dive From Space... Because Someone Sued Then Claiming It Was His Idea
from the ownership-of-ideas dept
Reader Marak was the first of a bunch of you to send in the news of Red Bull cancelling a super high altitude skydive (an attempt to break the famous record of Joe Kittinger) because of a lawsuit filed back in April by a guy claiming he had the idea first, and that he shared the details with Red Bull, but has now been cut out of the project. If anyone has the actual filing in the case, I'd like to see it, because you can't actually own "ideas," so I'm curious what he's specifically suing over. There are a few possibilities, but all of them seem like a stretch. Just because someone tells you an idea, there's no requirement you work with them, credit them or pay them in most cases. In fact, the reporting on what happened between Red Bull and the guy notes that after talking for a while, Red Bull sent him an email that stated: "after a very detailed investigation of your proposal, we finally came to the conclusion that we would not like to continue our joint work on the space Dive project." That doesn't say they won't proceed on their own, however...Once again, though, this does seem symptomatic of the general belief these days that it's possible to own "ideas," and that if you have an idea, then you can stop others from either having the same idea separately, or from actually implementing your idea. It's what happens when you build up a culture falsely led to believe that ideas are scarce resources like property.
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Filed Under: ideas, ownership, skydive, space, spacedive
Companies: red bull
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Been there, done that
The concept of orbital skydiving is kinda old at this point.
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Re: Been there, done that
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Correction
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Bull, this is not a valid case, unless he got them to sign some kind of contract or NDA about it. Just because you "shop around" an idea doesn't mean no one else can use it, unless you take steps to protect your interaction with them. If he didn't, then boo-hoo too bad for him. Don't like it? Don't share just ideas then, be smarter about how you go about it.
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That is so far from the idea of a trade secret it isn't even funny. An idea is not a secret stratagem that they can then never use. It is an idea. If at some point he provided technical data that made it logistically possible, and they stole that information and did it without him, it's a different matter.
Unless this guy had a business based around specific secrets of accomplishing an orbital jump that Redbull used, he has no case here. This is no different than my business proposing an idea for a project to a client and the client deciding to try to make it on their own. Just because I proposed the idea of the project to them, doesn't mean I own the idea of them ever doing said project, I simply own all the proprietary methods, technology, and formulas I might have applied in my own implementation of the project. If I provided specific break downs of functionality or methodology that was completely unique to the specific project and they used it, then I might have a slight case. The broader concept of the project is just an idea that anyone could have thought up.
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"According to the legal filing, Red Bull is guilty of defrauding Mr. Hogan by illegally drawing from his technical ideas regarding the project and of using his original plans to create publicity and marketing around a similar stunt."
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What I want to know is, who is going to pay Isaac Newton's estate from drawing almost completely on his notion of gravity for this stunt.
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If that is the case then he might win, however, what is stated in a legal filing is simply how the plaintiff perceives the matter, not legal fact.
As it was pointed out before, this guy has very little claim to anything about the idea or technology required unless he designed special formulas or equipment to make it possible. Unless he passed out full project overviews containing novel methodology that they were using to achieve the jump, he might as well just settle for something and let the jump happen.
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2) Hitch a ride on a spacecraft
3) Force door open on spacecraft before being subdued by vastly more-intelligent people
4) Jump out
5) Do not pass out (see appendix A for breathing exercises)
6) Avoid mid-air collision with airliner
7) Pull parachute cord
8) Steer parachute around power lines and moving objects
9) Land
10) Seek medical assistance
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It hasn't be canceled...
"Red Bull has acted appropriately in its prior dealings with Mr. Hogan, and will demonstrate this as the case progresses. Due to the lawsuit, we have decided to stop the project until this case has been resolved."
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Re: It hasn't be canceled...
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WSJ
The filing will cost you $11 or so after the search and the download as it's behind the CA Superior Court's paywall.
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So how are they going to do this ???
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Keep Trying Till You Win
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No such thing as a new idea
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Re: No such thing as a new idea
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Re: No such thing as a new idea
Project Excelsior was all over "space travel" books when I was a kid in the mid to late '60s, and it seems a very prosaic, unimaginative, perhaps even crude test of a parachute system developed to allow high-altitude jet pilots to eject safely.
In short, an obvious, non-unique idea, which occurred to many people many times over the years.
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Damn Seinfeld.
Pull the ripcord.
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integrity
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Re: integrity
http://www.redbullairrace.com/cs/Satellite/en_air/Official-Red-Bull-Air-Race-Homepage/0 01238611393596
http://contour.com/stories/tyler-mccauls-qualifier-line-at-red-bull-rampage
htt p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWSpUruz5wo
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=22759904212723216 19#
http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Article/Red-Bull-return-for-Extreme-finale-0212428 13587257
I mean, the "Holy Shit" section of their website (literally), is probably dedicated to Papal excrement, right?
http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Red-Bull.com/HolyShit/011242745950125
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Owning ideas
because you can't actually own "ideas,"
Once again, though, this does seem symptomatic of the general belief these days that it's possible to own "ideas," and that if you have an idea, then you can stop others from either having the same idea separately, or from actually implementing your idea.
Not that this could possibly apply to Mr. Hogan's claim, but do not patents, in fact, give you ownership of ideas, albeit very specific ones? Granted, you can't patent the general idea of "making a power cord that solves the problem of computers falling when people trip," (it wouldn't pass the non-obvious test) but I thought you could patent the ideas behind specific implementations of the general idea...
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Re: Owning ideas
The Keyword here is implementation, to use the example of "making a power cord that solves the problem of computers falling when people trip" I can think of 5 ways to do that off the top of my head, at least 3 of those methods are actually in use today (and possibly patented). If I wanted to I could take the time to research the other designs and patent them (presuming they have not been patented by somebody else already). What I could NOT however legitimately patent the idea itself (even though may patents today are so ridiculously broad as to come close to that).
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Wouldn't you?
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Just an idea?
* negotiating the construction of the craft with Lindstrand Technologies
* negotiating with Zvezda for construction of the suit
* contracting a former NASA flight surgeon
* providing a list of potential corporate sponsors
Not only that but he has written evidence from the project termination letter that it was a joint project.
Not worth the silly sums he is claiming, but it sounds like he has a good case of breach of contract.
Phillip.
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That dufus could win his case against Red Bull.
It has to be settled higher up in the courts and it will.
I don't know if I fully buy Red Bull's explanation. Seems like a cop out way to go out rather than saying "Project cancelled".
I would think the greedy ambulance cashers pouncing on Red Bull's "irresponsibility" after the diver is killed would be worse.
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And this is a crock, as has been shown, its not exactly a unique idea!
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