NY Company Threatens 800Notes Via UK In Legal Comedy Of Threats & Errors
from the where-to-start? dept
We've recently had our own run-in with a ridiculous threat of a libel lawsuit from the UK, in what appeared to be a clear attempt to intimidate us, rather than an action with any serious legal basis. As we mentioned in that post, thankfully, the US recently passed an important and broad anti-libel tourism law that protects US websites against overreaching foreign libel claims that go against US laws, such as Section 230 safe harbors for service providers.So, we're always interested in hearing about other similar threats, and here's a doozy that gets more ridiculous the further you read. It starts off with just such a libel tourism attempt, but then devolves into a true comedy of threats and errors, involving misaddressed threats, ridiculous claims of confidentiality and implied threats of copyright lawsuits on publishing the letters that reveal this comedy of errors. Make sure you read through the whole thing.
It starts out with a NY-based company, GDS Publishing, who was apparently upset about the complaints about its telemarketing practices found on the website 800notes.com, specifically calling out the NY-based phone number (212 area code) used by GDS. After GDS complained to Julia Forte, who runs the site, she removed the comments that violated the site's terms of service, but left plenty of the other (non-violating, but still complaining) comments up, which GDS apparently did not appreciate. It then had a UK law firm threaten to sue her in the UK under UK libel laws. Now, it is true that GDS's parent company is based in the UK, but Julia and 800notes are in the US, and thus protected by Section 230 and the libel tourism law. And, while it doesn't even matter, given 800notes' status, this was about actions by the subsidiary, which is incorporated in New York, and all of the actions and complaints concerned that NY company (using a NY phone number).
Already, this seems like a classic case of over-aggressive lawyering, perhaps from someone unaware of the SPEECH Act, or from someone who simply hoped to intimidate an American website into compliance. However, the story gets even more ridiculous. First, the lawyer in question, one Leigh Ellis of Gillhams Solicitors LLP in the UK, apparently made a typo when copying the email address of Ms. Forte from the whois page for 800notes, resulting in him sending the initial complaint to a totally different Julia Forte (who happened to be a lawyer) based in NY, rather than the 800notes Julia Forte (who happens to live in North Carolina). Oops.
After the NY lawyer Julia Forte told Ellis of his mistake, rather than recognizing that he made a mistake, Ellis appears to have both emailed the same (wrong) Julia Forte again, and interpreted the email from the NY lawyer Julia Forte to mean that the North Carolina 800notes Julia Forte was denying her association with the site -- even though the NY lawyer Julia Forte told Ellis that he had the wrong email address. So, instead of correcting the mistake and emailing the correct Julia Forte, he sent a letter to 800notes' webhost, SoftLayer Technologies (pdf), claiming that the content on 800notes was defamatory, and saying that Forte "has informed us that she is not associated with the Website," and asking SoftLayer to confirm that Ms. Forte really is the account holder, and also demanding that SoftLayer take down the content GDS doesn't like, or face defamation charges itself.
Ah, the comedy of errors. Of course, it was the wrong Julia Forte who accurately denied being associated with the website. The correct Julia Forte has no problem standing behind her site. Thankfully, SoftLayer is well aware of the legal issues involved here, and well aware of Section 230 and the SPEECH Act that protects it, as well as Julia Forte, so it passed along the letters to Forte's lawyer, Paul Levy. If only the comedy of threats and errors ended there. But, it did not...
Levy responded in great detail to Ellis (pdf), highlighting the specific legal realities of Section 230 and the SPEECH Act, as well as detailing Ellis' own mistakes in emailing the wrong person. You should read the letter. It gets better and better as it goes along (or just skip to page 3):
Of course, such things are simply not legally binding, leading Levy to (1) question whether or not Gillhams is charging GDS Publishing by the hour and (2) highlight how Gillhams appears to have misstated its own confidentiality clause and gotten confused over who might hold any copyright (and, thus, license-rights) to the letter in question. His response is here (pdf), though I'll restate the relevant paragraphs:
My question about whether you have been charging GDS Publishing by the hour is relevant because, in the criticism of your conduct that I am drafting for publication, I am trying to figure out whether your misadventures in trying to send correspondence to Forte, and your subsequent threats directed to SoftLayer, reflect only incompetence, or rather reflect an effort to run the meter at your client's expense. I'd be grateful, therefore, if you would respond to my question.As Levy notes in his blog post on the whole situation: "I invite Ellis to bring suit here in the United States and show us that he is right. Ellis is also invited to use the comment feature to reply."
Finally, I note your email referring to confidentiality notices that are contained in your emails. Even if the emails purported to forbid publication, such notices do not override fair use. Sad to say, however, you have misstated the fine print in your own emails. I invite you to re-read that text. The disclaimer says that the emails "may" contain privileged or confidential information, not that they do. I see nothing in the emails that merits treatment as either privileged or confidential in any event. Moreover, they instruct the recipients not to disseminate the emails if they are NOT the intended recipients. By negative implication, these notices tell the intended recipients that they ARE free to disseminate the emails. Your office deliberately sent the emails to me, thus effectively giving me permission to publish them.
Your letter also states that your "clients" are reserving their rights about the publication of your letter and emails. However, I see no reason to believe that your clients own the copyright in your letters. The owner would be you and/or your firm. If you choose to try to enforce the copyright by raising a claim of infringement, you will have to do so in your own name.
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Filed Under: confidentiality, copyright, defamation, errors, julia forte, leigh ellis, libel tourism, section 230, threats, uk
Companies: 800notes, gds publishing, gillhams
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Epic
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Looks Serious
Sounds sexual... this could get ugly...
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Entrance of the Gladiators
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"Libellas"
- My New Dictionary
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Any lawyer who can tell someone in professional and legal terms to "stfu" gets my applause, for sure.
It's a real shame that more lawyers aren't willing to say "stop wasting my time" instead of "cool, I'm clocking more time!"
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Yeah, he basically asked "are you incompetent or unethical?" Wow! I'm betting that question doesn't get answered.
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OMG
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Masterful
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My 1�� Worth
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Re: My 1�� Worth
{I do not understand why my comment looks fine in preview but when posted I get ��}
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Of course, such things are simply not legally binding,"
Got any specific cases that show precedence for this not being legally binding? Or any references?
Please note that I'm not trying to be glib here, I actually am interested in how this could apply to the boilerplate confidentiality legalese my school appends to all of its emails.
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Have you heard 800 notes possible extortion scam?
Please Read here!
http://www.xcomplaints.com/complaint/www800notescom-cheat-and-scam-c161.html
Please Read here!
Ex employee says 800 notes is a scam.
Is 800 notes posting negative blogs and extorting money?
According to this article, an ex employee claims 800 notes are purposely defaming companies to extort money from them. The article also claims,
Julia Forte calls to extort money to take down negative posts she created says an ex employee according to this blog.
Is Julia Forte involved in illegal scamming operations?
Why would Public Citizen Litigation Group/ Alan Levy defend an alleged scam like this?
Based on what the linked blog says, she was directly involved with training
people to operate this alleged scam. Why is Paul Alan Levy and Public Citizan Litigation Group defending 800 notes and Julia Forte?
Based on what ex employee posts that 800 notes is a well orchistrated scam. According to the post they create negative blogs then they extort companies for
money. Why is Paul Alan Levy defending 800 notes alleged scam and Julia Forte??
If this is true Julia Forte should be in Jail for extortion. Call Public Citizens
Litigation Group to stop this possible scam, Hopefully, Public Citizens Litigation group who normally defend the little guy will not take donations to defend this alleged scam.If Paul Alan Levy - Public Citizen Litigation
Group knowingly defends a scam like this Speak up!
Even if Public Citizen Litigation Group didnt know it was a possible scam upfront, hopefully Paul Alan Levy did his research about this alleged incident where 800 notes called to extort money to remove negative blogs. I hope he
physically visited their facility and talked to their employees about these
allegations.
If you have been negatively affected by 800 notes scam. please contact Public Citizen Litigation Group or Paul Alan Levy.
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Re: Have you heard 800 notes possible extortion scam?
from http://800notes.com/arts/faq
"Do you take money for post removal?
No, we don't. We do not accept any monetary contributions, or any other contributions in exchange for content removal, period. If someone says otherwise, they are not telling the truth. Scammers are not thrilled that their fraud is exposed here, so they take revenge by spreading lies on the Internet."
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Re: Have you heard 800 notes possible extortion scam?
Non-scummy non-telemarketers get posts, too, which is also helpful. For instance, I found out via the site that it really was the UPS trace department calling (and not a scummy telemarketer playing pretend) and how to call them back about a lost package. It's a nicely informative site. And it shows the patterns in how the scummy telemarketers work, which must be useful data for somebody.
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Clutter Guy
__ Total fraud and a nimrod to boot. Look at the grammar and structure of the post. It appears to be the ramblings of a mind affected by abuse of modeling glue (and possibly small children). I would suspect that self hate inspired by such revolting personal failings caused him to maintain employment with a scummy company, such as those exposed by 800notes, which he attempts to protect by defaming said forum. Really a sad, misdirected, effort to repair the image of his chosen profession, rather than repair the real problem, his personal actions and habits.
__ A real hero of the internet. He exposes the powerful forum barons for the libelous scum they are. Using the awesome literary skills he possesses, he shatters the lies in a way that appears effortless. With his powerful intellect, the poor downtrodden International Corporations can finally fight back against the Historically Powerful Website Owners that run roughshod over them. He should be canononized (despite what he may do with small children...)for his courage.
Please Note: ONLY read the paragraph above that is checked!!
Private Message to Clutter Guy: After I receive and tally potential payments from "anyone" that would like to "donate" to my "personal charity" (wink, wink), I'll decide where to place the afore mentioned check mark indicating which paragraph should be read here. Hint. Hint.
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1800 is awesome
I would like to personally think that website and the person who runs it for their service. They are invaluable in this age of phone terrorism.
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Clutter Guy = GDS International
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800notesscam.com
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Is Julia Forte and 800 notes the real scam?
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Paul Allen Levy and Public Citizen
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Re: Paul Allen Levy and Public Citizen
I'm one of the folks that has both used 800notes.com to check out numbers of dummies that have called me AND posted what's happened to me when I actually answered calls or called the number back.
If you want to call all of us scammers, go right ahead. I call Ms. Forte a hero for dealing with the likes of you!
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callnotes
http://callnotes.org
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