TSA Does Full Grope Search On Screaming Three Year Old [Update]
from the i-feel-much-more-secure-now dept
There certainly are a lot of TSA search stories these days but it's an important topic, so we'll keep covering it as long as there are interesting stories. The latest, found via Slashdot, is of a three year old girl who got a full pat down while screaming at the TSA agents not to touch her. Update: Pointed out in the comments is that this actually happened "pre-enhanced pat down." This original story was from 2009, but the press seems to have picked up on it again... Apparently, she was initially upset at having to send her teddy bear through the machine and she then refused to go through the scanning device herself. Her actions somehow set off the scanner's alarm, leading to a TSA agent trying to do a forced pat down. The girl's father is a reporter and caught 17-seconds of the pat down on his mobile phone.Oddly, it appears that the Tribune Company is pulling down this video every time it appears on YouTube. It's not clear why the Tribune Company won't allow it to stay up but others keep re-uploading it. This version is working as I type this, but it might not be for long.
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Pre enhanced pat down
The first video I saw of this was posted by an account called "TheIntelligencer" and was originally uploaded January 22, 2009. I had to go to the Google Cache to find it:
TSA Screener Accosts 3 Year Old Child at Security Checkpoint
Since the reporter mentioned the trip was "a month ago", even if the video was posted the same night it aired, that seems to imply a Christmas 2008 trip.
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Re: Pre enhanced pat down
Keep in mind that the TSA has never caught a single terrorist, and let several, including the underwear bomber, pass on by. The questions is: Does touching children make us safer? The answer is NO, not under any circumstance.
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Re: Re: Pre enhanced pat down
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Re: Re: Pre enhanced pat down
Clarification was the goal and nothing else.
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Re: Re: Re: Pre enhanced pat down
""One male TSA employee expressed to the plaintiff that he wished he would have been there when she came through the first time and that 'he would just have to watch the video,'" the suit said."
http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-10-11/lawsuit-airport-search-indecent
Clarificat ion:
It was already bad a few years ago, now they have more excuses.
Whatever happened to radar devices detecting planes where there shouldn't be any planes?
Are we really going to have another attack happen when the whole US Air Force is in "simulation" mode?
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Re: Pre enhanced pat down
I don't like the dick-measuring device or the intimidation groping any more than you, but we don't get to make up facts.
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Re: Re: Pre enhanced pat down
So the original two points stand.
1. The TSA has NEVER caught a terrorist.
2. They TSA did not stop the underwear bomber.
No facts were made up and the only fact remains simple - TSA = useless, molesting, child abusers.
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Re: Re: Pre enhanced pat down
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Re: Pre enhanced pat down
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Re: Pre enhanced pat down
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Re: Pre enhanced pat down
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Re: Pre enhanced pat down
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http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-both er
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Re:
Wouldn't that me amazing? Safety and efficiency, while we have neither.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re:
Remove the volume and sure, we could maybe be efficient too.
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Re: Re: Re:
Are you saying you can't have more people in the same way they have more machines?
Sounds to me like you have found your solution to the high unemployment rate.
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Or maybe just add capacity.
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Re:
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Seems the TSA are the instillers of terror this time..
You do not have to do that to children, even if it is well know that some parents will use their kids for that reason.
All the same, you should subject kids, or anyone to X-Rays, that is the bigger risk, that is the risk of CANCER..
sure if you have never had cancer you might not think about it much, but if you have, and if you have lost friends from cancer, and you know X-Rays will give you cancer.
I cannot see that scanning millions of people like that will not result in a massive increase in the cancer rate.
patdowns are bad, but cancer is much worse..
But you can build a "magic wand" that they could pass over children that does gas sampling for drugs and explosives, or let that nice doggie visit them..
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Re: Seems the TSA are the instillers of terror this time..
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Re: Seems the TSA are the instillers of terror this time..
Since the TSA has instituted these security procedures in 2001 not one search has yielded anything. Drugs, bombs, guns, anything. And I'm not exactly sure how well-known it is. I don't recall hearing of drug smuggling using children very much lately, even at all.
There have been a handful of incidents that have still occurred (drunks getting out of control and one or two would-be terrorists) and all were handled by passengers and air marshals after the plane was in the air.
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Re: Re: Seems the TSA are the instillers of terror this time..
But it totally happened in the famous Schwarzenegger movie "Collateral Damage"!! They hid the bomb in the teddy bear!!! That means they do that!
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I have a solution. Crowdsourced security.
Step 2: Understand that there is an imbalance of power created when one person has a weapon others do not (standard for all violent crimes that include a weapon)
Step 3: Understand that the only thing that has foiled terrorist attacks on transport is passengers. Who fight back in spite of any individual imbalance of power (using numbers to overcome the would-be terrorist).
Step 4: Knowing all of that, reverse the balance of power to amplify the effect of the ONE thing that has worked -- mandate that all passengers MUST carry Tasers in flight. No exceptions. They can incapacitate without punching a hole in the aircraft, and so what if the terrorist has a taser; he's surrounded by 100 people who are similarly armed. Problem solved. No one can take control of the aircraft.
(caveat: explosives triggered by high voltage might suggest a non-taser solution, but that's one specific movie-plot threat. The principal applies regardless of weapon mandated)
It will never happen, but would be a more cost effective, elegant and useful solution.
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Re: I have a solution. Crowdsourced security.
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Forth Amendment
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Re: Forth Amendment
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Re: Forth Amendment
The US Supreme Court has already found that the fourth amendment doesn't apply even in the US within 100 miles of the border. I'm sure they'll have no problem saying it doesn't apply at airports either.
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Urethra search
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Re: Urethra search
While the risk of getting a fatal cancer from the screening is minuscule, it's about equal to the probability that an airplane will get blown up by a terrorist, he added. "So my view is there is not a case to be made for deploying them to prevent such a low probability event.""
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/11/16/5477568-are-airport-x-ray-scanners-harmful
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Re: Re: Urethra search
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Re: Re: Urethra search: TAKE YOUR OWN LINK!
Right at the "Peter Rez":
http://www.public.asu.edu/~atppr/bodyscan.html
"The manufacturers claim that the dose from one of these screenings is less than 0.25 mSv. Examination of the images that they publish and some simple Physics based on well known scattering cross sections shows that it is VERY unlikely that the dose is this low."
And at bottom in LARGE:
"Scary thing, what happens if scan jams and fail-safe mechanism fails -- local dose very high of order a few Sv."
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Re: Re: Re: Urethra search: READ THE PDF!
From NY Times: "That�s one reason Peter Rez, a physics professor at Arizona State University, has been pushing for more data to be shared so that academics can do their own analysis."
And read the Rez et al PDF from bottom of Rez page:
"Our findings indicate effective dosages may be as high as 0.8-0.9 uSv for the personnel screening systems. This is about 4 times higher than the maximum value determined by the vendors as indicated by their claims that doses are in compliance with ANSI 2002 standard..."
Now. The "1 in 20 million fatal doses" figure is PER mieroSv. So that's roughly the risk PER scan. But radiation is a cumulative risk. Ten a year may be 9uSv so 1 in 20M is divided by 9, to 1 in 2.2M of fatal cancer. -- Still low, only wimps would complain, huh? But Rez can only INFER from the supposed ANSI compliance limit; there is NO real data provided by TSA, it's just "trust us".
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Urethra search: READ THE PDF!
I came away with Rez saying there is no need for the machines since the probability of a plane being blown up is so minuscule...
...you are far more likely to get hit and be killed by lightning in any one year period.
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Re: Re: Urethra search
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Re: Re: Urethra search
"No way, sir, the chances of getting cancer from this little machine are 30 MILLION TO ONE! It's practically impossible!"
"Ok, thanks, I feel much safer now."
"In fact, in all the time we've used them, not a single case of cancer has been reported. Not a single case in 29,999,999 times we've tried it before you, sir!"
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Re: Re: Re: Urethra search
That means that at least one of my sperm per scan is probably getting it's DNA damaged. I hope that's not the one that starts my next kid.
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Re: Re: Re: Urethra search
And THAT'S assuming all body conditions are the same... and they're not.
It's amazing really... we can't use cell phones on a flight because it MIGHT interfere at a critical moment. A HIGHLY unlikely situation, but one that we protect against because of how bad it would be if that ONE time happened. So why don't we have the same preventative attitude with problems this thing might cause? I guess one human's health is not as important. -shrug- glad they cleared THAT up.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Urethra search
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It seems to me the real, unannounced objective is to reduce air traffic by making it as onerous as possible. Making air travel into an experience you don't do unless you have no other choice.
So far that hasn't spread to train and vehicle traffic. A train is a nice way to travel and not near as expensive as flying.
It seems the Homeland Security only recognizes air travel as the means for terrorists to get the country or into the country. That is a fallacy on the face of it.
Our borders are as porous as a sponge. You have only to look as far as drug smuggling to figure that out.
This is stage show for the passengers, nothing more. When was the first time the TSA actually caught a terrorist? They are trying to take credit for the underwear bomber; one who already went through their security measures, was already on the plane, and already in the air. It was the passengers, not the TSA that prevented the mishap.
So how long before we hear, "papers please" and every block?
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Re:
you think they'll actually say 'please'? Heh.
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heh
Yea I noticed that too. I was gonna ask ya about it, but then got sidetracked by puppies...
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Parents' consent for their children / acclimatization
But in this video, it "clearly" appears the mother effectively gave consent for the child to be searched, and the father, although objecting to something (his daughter throwing a tantrum?) after the fact, by no means suggests that he did not consent.
I had envisioned the parents being separated from the child (if only by 3 or 5 feet) during the pat down ... certainly not the mother holding the child.
I believe I had cried a time or two when I was dropped off at school, because I didn't want to go to school. And maybe the kindergarten teach took my hand to lead me inside. And maybe I scream "quit touching me". That wouldn't be the faculty's fault --understanding that they had my parents consent -- that would be a child over-reacting as usually because I wasn't acclimatized. Or more simply, I probably cried the many first times I had to get a shot at the doctor's.
Maybe the parents could have trained the child to be scanned. Play peek-a-boo with Mr. Bear more often. "There he goes! Here he comes!" "Hee hee, haa haa," not "boo hoo hoo." Maybe such training should become part of early schooling.
Since the mother and not the agents are restraining the child, I don't see anything other than sensationalism.
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Re: Parents' consent for their children / acclimatization
That's right. Everyone just calm down.
Hey you - pick up that can!
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Re: Re: Parents' consent for their children / acclimatization
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Re: Parents' consent for their children / acclimatization
Same goes for touching my better half.
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Re: Parents' consent for their children / acclimatization
Don't question the law, move along citizen. Nothing to see here.
If this groping had been done by anyone other than a TSA agent, it would've been assault, why not now?
No means no. Period.
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Re: Parents' consent for their children / acclimatization
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It's less abusive than the TSA, obviously.
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The irony here is that this would have been reported and forgotten about long before the current pat-down issues if it had been allowed to stay up. But because they insisted on taking it down every time, they inadvertently made the video look current, provide fuel for an already bad PR nightmare.
In the immortal words of Nelson: HA ha!
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Can some explain to me
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Why does age matter?
If this security is really necessary, age shouldn't matter at all.
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Re: Why does age matter?
it's easy to Monday morning quarterback over how TSA and homeland security is supposed to address the issue but the fact is that theres no easy answers.
The minute you start putting "exceptions" in regards to who gets the full treatment and who doesn't then that weakness could possibly be exploited.
I know its fun to mock what we all perceive as overzealous TSA people but they are acting on orders from higher-ups. There's also the fact that if someone WERE to smuggle some kind of device via one of these "exceptions" (and you KNOW extremists will justify any sick method as long as they are doing Allah's bidding) and it went off the same people mocking would have plenty to say about how incompetent the system and employees are.
You can't have it both ways. Either everyone is screened or none of us are and we take our chances.
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Re: Re: Why does age matter?
Shoring up your constitutional freedoms for a false sense of security is just stupid.
[sarcasm]Also nice, putting the blame on Muslims, by invoking Allah. Well done.[/sarcasm]
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@ #50. Re: Re: Why does age matter?
"...are acting on orders from higher-ups." -- 2LT Calley's lawyers want to know where you were when they needed you.
"You can't have it both ways. Either everyone is screened or none of us are and we take our chances." -- Um, yeah. Go check out logical fallacies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy)*, and see how many you managed to cram into those two sentences. Not everyone is screened now. We still take our chances, and I would prefer to take them without having to physically or virtually undress in front of a low-wage, minimally-trained object of nearly universal derision.
* Sorry, this system strips out hyperlinks.
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Re: Re: Why does age matter?
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children's patdowns
Airport security (pre-TSA) pulled him aside, wouldn't let us get near him and did a full-body inspection while he cried and screamed.
It was over in 90 seconds and there was no lasting harm for sure- but still it was no fun and certainly didn't leave anyone feeling any safer.
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Re:
I watched that earlier and I don't recall anything NSFW. It is a cartoon. Then again, I wasn't thinking about kids at the time.
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Security Theater
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Re: Security Theater
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Can companies administer gropes? Check the Political Contributors.
American Science and Engineering (device name: Smartcheck)
Rapiscan Systems (a subsidiary of OSI Systems Inc.)[5] (device name: Secure 1000)
Tek84 (formerly Spectrum San Diego Inc.) (device name: AIT84 Body Scanner & Castscope)
Elected officials gettin' some love:
* Bennie G Thompson (D) of MS. (Chairman of Homeland Security)
* Hal Rogers (R, KY- Homeland Security), Ranking Member over Homeland Security says "MAKE IT RAIN" SAIC money!
* John Carter (R, TX- Homeland Security) loves SAIC honey.
* John Culberson (R, TX- Homeland Security)in Homeland Security likes sprinkles on his SAIC money.
* Ken Calvert (R, CA- Homeland Security)loves SAIC a lot!
* Jerry Lewis (R, CA- Homeland Security) wants SAIC Sugar.
* Bennie G Thompson (D- from American Science and Engineering.
* Rep Daniel Inouye, Chairman of Appropriations received a contribution from AS&E.
* Frank R. Wolf, Thad Cochran, also on the Appropriations committees, loves the on-time SAIC checks.
* Steve Rothman on Homeland Security says "SAIC Money, Why yes!"
There's more if you want to look into it more.
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Re: Can companies administer gropes? Check the Political Contributors.
Here's the Press Release:
http://www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news.php?NewsID=18530
Also, the list provided is only from the 2010 election cycle and is only members of the House of Representatives.
The whole thing seems to be in response to the outcome of the 2008 election cycle. It's as if these companies had a solution to a non-existent problem. (SAIC in particular. They seems to have a lot of stuff conveniently happen around the Anthrax scare, and other things. They contributed quite a bit through their company and indirectly via PACs)
I find it humorous that SAIC is in San Diego, the same city John Tyner, the "Don't touch my Junk" guy is from.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00300418&cycle=2010
In the Senate,
SAIC made contributions to Bill Nelson, Chairman, Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh, Jeff Bingaman, Roger Wicker, Scott Brown, Richard Burr, North Carolina, and John McCain. These people are on the Armed Services "Emerging Threats" committee.
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The TSA is just like Santa, it just keeps giving :)
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Journalistic integrity of Mainstream Media?
Just so you know, Penn Jillette had an encounter with the TSA a few years ago, where he did indeed call the cops on a TSA agent, because he felt it was assault:
http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstuff/penniphile/roadpennfederalvip.html
(note the date of the post: 11/13/02)
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Perhaps I just don't get it, but...
If I was a terrorist (and I'm not), and I wanted to cause as much carnage as possible, I would probably opt for a crowded passenger train in a tunnel (anyone remember London a couple of years ago?). In my experience (and I've travelled on trains in lots of big cities around the world), the security associated with boarding a train (especially a regular commuter train at peak hour in a big city) is negligible. Why ignore trains, which carry a lot more people than planes? I understand that there is a certain amount of fear and symbolism associated with plane hijackings - confined space, 30,000 feet in the air with nowhere to go, memorable images of gun wielding terrorists telling everyone to remain seated, etc, etc. And of course, we can't forget 9/11. But in a post-9/11 world, if your goal is maximum carnage and not a Hollywood action movie, wouldn't you target something with little to no security? It just seems weird.
Can you imagine if they tried to implement pat-downs for all passengers at Grand Central Station before they got on a train? It would be pandemonium. And yet, no-one even thinks twice if someone gets on a train with a backpack. Or even a suit case. Heck - I've done it heaps of times. There are no baggage checks, no scanners, no-one checking ID, nothing. But to get on a plane, you have to jump through all these hoops and be subjected to all kinds of inconvenience (and now humiliation). It seems that the effort being invested in airport security is completely disproportionate to the risk, when compared to the complete lack of effort being invested in securing other forms of transport.
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Re: Perhaps I just don't get it, but...
So yeah. This whole effort is pointless and stupid. If anything, the TSA is putting us all in *greater* risk.
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This proves to me that the terrorists are winning. We are acting in total fear. Of course if you are in the EU they can do whatever they want. As far as I can tell you have no rights in the EU or the UK. The officials there can do you any way they want.
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Just say no!
And with regards to the radiation "dose" being less than a chest Xray or high altitude flight, that's a matter of the TSA spinning the data. The "total dosage" is measured in the amount of radiation when spread evenly throughout the entire body. However, many experts point out that the backscatter machines only penetrate the skin. Therefore the actual "dosage" of radiation while being less than an Xray is actually concentrated on the skin and is thus actually a much higher dose.
To simplify I am making up numbers and measures.... if you get zapped with 300 gigawatts of radiation during a flight and weigh 150 lbs, your dose is 2 gigawatts per lb. If you are zapped with 150 gigawatts of radiation from a scanner that only penetrates 30 lbs of skin, the quantity of the dose may be half, but your skin is actually getting 5 gigawatts per lbs which is more than twice as much. Follow?
In other TSA spin, they love to quote that Johns Hopkins studied it and said its safe, but if you read the statement from one of the scientists at Johns Hopkins he very clearly states that they only measured the radiation produced by the machine and reported it to the TSA, they did not study its impact on people or state that it was safe/healthy.
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Re: Just say no!
You must be a terrorist. Terrorists like you should be caught and sent to offshore prisons for the rest of their lives without trial. Or maybe just summarily executed.
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Re: Re: Just say no!
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