FBI Celebrates That It Prevented FBI's Own Bomb Plot

from the feeling-safer? dept

Tue, Nov 30th 2010 11:38am — Mike Masnick

With all of the new security procedures we keep hearing about, it's important for the government to keep convincing us that we're under a very real immediate threat that could put us at risk at any moment. Along those lines, you may have heard over the weekend about how the FBI supposedly stopped a terrorism bomb plot in Portland, Oregon. Except it appears more and more people are scratching beneath the surface and realizing that the entire plot appears to have been cooked up by the FBI itself. Yes, it sounds like they found a dumb kid who was willing to carry out a bombing. But there doesn't appear to be any evidence that he actually had any ability to actually do so... until the FBI came along and provided him with all the details.

Of course, this is hardly new. There appears to have been a very similar story just a month ago, involving a guy in DC who wanted to bomb Metro stations, but the only actual plotting he was able to do was after federal authorities stepped in and helped him plan everything.

Even that is hardly new. I remember a fascinating episode of This American Life back from the summer of 2009 describing (in great detail) a very similar story of a supposed "arms dealer" that the Justice Department championed as a success story when it arrested and prosecuted him for selling missiles to terrorists. The only problem is that the deeper you dig, the more you realize that the whole plot was also set up by the feds. The guy had no way to get a missile. It was actually provided by the feds themselves.

As that report notes, this is how the government has acted since 9/11. It basically creates its own terrorist plots, and then searches for willing participants... and then arrests them, and hypes how it prevented a terrorist attack, even if there's absolutely no indication that anyone involved would have actually been able to carry out any sort of attack (or arms deal) without the aid of the US government.

We've talked about "security theater," but this appears to be law enforcement theater, complete with actors and props. Feel safer yet?

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Filed Under: fbi, hype, security, terrorism

77 Comments

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Travis Miller (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 10:52am

1993 WTC bombing
At least they stopped this one. The FBI knowingly allowed the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 11:47am

Entrapment
This has been going on for a long, long time. It's not surprising that they'd simply switch modes and start going after 'terrorists' rather than 'criminals' once that became the cause celebre.
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Miles (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 11:58am

"Feel safer yet?"
Depends. Are they going to incarcerate the guilty at Disney World?

If not, then I'm holing up at Walmart.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:00pm

Cue the FBI take down of Techdirt in 3...2...1...
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:01pm

Considering the fact that terrorists have their own glossy magazine attempting to recruit "home grown terrorists" here in the US, is it a bad thing that the FBI is reaching these people first?
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Jake, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:06pm

What. The. Fuck.

If he wasn't so careful about providing links to his sources, I'd say Techdirt were having their office Christmas party a month early.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:06pm

Re:
Being as how it looks like they're inducing a criminal act....yes.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:10pm

Re:
A college friend was actually held in jail at Disney World (he was a local and jumped the fence and was caught.) Apparently there's a huge mural opposite the cells depicting Mickey as a cop. He said it was the most surreal experience he's ever had.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:13pm

Since...?
"As that report notes, this is how the government has acted since 9/11. It basically creates its own terrorist plots, and then searches for willing participants... and then arrests them, and hypes how it prevented a terrorist attack, even if there's absolutely no indication that anyone involved would have actually been able to carry out any sort of attack (or arms deal) without the aid of the US government."
...since 9/11? Seriously, do they really believe that this behaviour is new? The "Oklahoma City Bomber" was a fed plot too--and enacted well before 9/11. (And with similar results: hastily passed legislation.)

This has been their MO for fu*king years!!

I'm sure there are numerous notable examples, but that's the only one which comes to mind at present.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:16pm

Re: Since...?
See: Reichstag Fire
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weneedhelp (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:19pm

Treading on conspiracy theorist
Now we can look into the shoe bomber and how he got on the plane along with the SECOND suspect that was taken into custody at the US airport, and the witnesses that the MSM ignored.
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Travis Miller (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:24pm

funding
The FBI also refused to let him fly to Alaska for a fishing job a friend had gotten for him, then funneled him money to do this.

They wouldn't let him fish for a living, because they wanted to make him a terrorist. (Not that this excuses his actions at all.)
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:26pm

Careful people... you are only a short jump to Operation Northwoods.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:31pm

I'll feel safer once Friend Computer is here to care for us all.
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fogbugzd (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:37pm

What are the smart ones up to?
Basically the FBI has been trolling for people dumb enough to fall for stings. I wonder what the terrorists that are too smart to fall for the stings are up to while the FBI puts its resources into focusing on recruiting the morons?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:39pm

Re:
This....
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:41pm

Re: Re: Since...?
I'm confused. I thought the Reichstag Fire was a good thing because it provided a firm, solid foundation of how easily people can be manipulated into thinking a Decree will fix something. In order for this method to be successful, it has a secondary, emotional attachment to it. It's very similar to the various initial outcomes of 9-11, or later, the Patriot Act which was effective in creating a two-caste society.

It's effectiveness is paramount in countries that have state or dictator-controlled media. Do you know something I don't know?
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Freak, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:41pm

Re:
Remember: Happiness is mandatory!
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mikej, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:48pm

Funny thing...
.....is that there are many people who still won't believe the FBI's involvement.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Since...?
I assume you're being sarcastic, but for anyone else wondering, the Reichstag Fire was a false flag operation used to bring a certain German guy to power....
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interval, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:51pm

Re: 1993 WTC bombing
Troll.
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Mike, 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:52pm

FBI Portland bust
I live in Portland and saw this for the BS it is. But the local media must be starving for stories as they are all over this, being good little compliant americans (small case intended)and following what the FBI wants, a media justification for the rape of individual rights.
But hey, this is the new age of terrorism and we are supposed to stand aside and allow our trusted government to "protect us". The obviously confused and 'broken' teenager is of no consequence as "his parents should have raised him better".
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interval (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:55pm

Re: Re:
Its 1985 and we're all living in Brazil;

"Be Safe: Be Suspicious"

"We're all in this together!"
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Steve R. (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 12:59pm

Its an OLD Plot Line
In the 1960s, a Science Fiction author (Mack Reynolds) wrote many stories were the hero was duped into joining a revolutionary front. The stories typically ended with the hero dying as he realizes that the revolutionary front was really created by the Government as a means of controlling the disaffected.
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 1:13pm

Sting operations are one of the many ways law enforcement, DHS, and the FBI counter terrorism.

Why is this being tactic decried? Just because you don't like the way they market it? That sounds more like personal preference.
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johnny canada, 30 Nov 2010 @ 1:23pm

Does the FBI run a flight school by any chance ????
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 1:23pm

Re: FBI Portland bust
Are you claiming the teenager is actually the victim here?
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 1:35pm

Re: Re:
Which is by definition a sting operation. I'm not seeing the problem here, other than the fact some folks don't like the way the story was marketed.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 1:38pm

Re:
Listen buddy. I don't know where you come from but there are people who think. Either they have proof or not. But chances are, probably not.

These guys probably know that I want an espresso machine for Christmas. You know the address. Let's make it happen.

Espresso Machine = My Government Loves Me.
No Espresso Machine = No Love From My Government.

I also demand that such an unexpected gift would full coverage of consumables for 12 months. Consumables would come in the form of a coupon which would provide 22bs of Espresso-roasted beans from Costco. I choose Costco because they are not only the cheapest, but also because Costco is fiscally responsible. Also, 22lbs of good roasted beans should cover a year.

I can pay $9.99/lb at my local grocery store, which is insane when I can get 2.5lbs for $12.99 at Costco. Get with the times people!

I dare them to actually come give me what I want. And whoever you are, you're a real asshole.
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corvettekenny (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 1:39pm

I feel safer already..
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interval (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 1:48pm

Re:
I rather suspect my credence regarding the state of the sky would be severely cut if I not only ran around talking about how the sky was falling, but paid some bozos to act like they had just been hit by pieces of the sky. Add to that I am the only QUALIFIED sky deflection suit seller in the land, well, I don't believe I'd get much of an audience. But if I'm the government, woah, whole new ball park.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 1:55pm

Oh come on. He frigging dialed the number to explode a bomb that would have killed hundreds of men, women and children. TWICE! He also was in contact with known terrorists and asked for their help to bomb Americans. He tried to leave the country to get terrorist training, but his parents stopped him. Who gives a rat's ass if the Fed's facilitated him to see if he would go through with it. Guilty, hang him on the public square.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Since...?
So Matt, is being sarcastic a crime now?

I stand by Reichtag Fire and the subsequent Reichtag Fire Decree leading to the uprise of Hitler.

I also believe that Germans were a very jovial group of people prior to WWII and weren't committed to a cause. Nor were they required to prove and re-prove themselves through their work ethic. Indeed, the German; The Very True German, was in search of a cause to commit to.

When we look more deeply into international relations, we have to understand that this is between us and not them. Our problems are our own, and not the cause of someone else.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:08pm

Re:
Nice Emotional expertise there.

See, this is one of the interesting concepts you can come to learn of the neo-conservative ideology... More to come.
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Jon, 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:11pm

Guilty
This kid initiated the plot, and was turned in by his own father. And he is the one who tried to detonate the bomb...twice. There was no entrapment here.
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teka, 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:13pm

Re:
but why did the operation go this far?

Why did they not pick him up the moment he answered that "RECRUITING: TERRORISTS" newspaper ad?

He could have been picked up and received some counseling, perhaps community service or probation. A disaffected terrorist defused into a somewhat screwed up kid who gets some help. Instead the FBI builds the situation up into a MASSIVE PLOT so they could SAVE EVERYONE from the MASSIVE PLOT.

This is far past a sting operation trying to buy drugs from a drug dealer.

This is recruiting an at-risk kid, training him to be a drug dealer, and then arresting him when he goes to sell some drugs. They could have just gotten him into an after-school program.
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:18pm

Re: Re:
While I do follow your logic, and to some degree agree, I still think these tactics are necessary, although maybe not properly employed.

Sting operations are not new, and as for using them in a counter-terrorist light, it was simply a natural progression - moreover, I'm sure we were doing this long before it made it to headline news.

And for folks to claim that "we're only catching the dumb ones," well that's absurd. Can anyone make the valid claim that if this teenager didn't get nabbed by the FBI, he wouldn't be in some Pakastani terror camp in a month...a year? Absolutely not.

After all...this person willingly attempted to use an explosive, which happened to be fictional. In ethical terms, there is no difference between his real actions and his intended consequences.
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Eugene (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:18pm

Re: Re: Re:
No, by definition it's entrapment. A sting happens when you take an person or group who already have the ability to commit a crime, and set up a situation that allows them to incriminate themselves in a safe environment, but without the direct interference of law enforcement.

So, for instance, if a guy's talking about blowing up a building, you would wait for him to start trying to build the bomb and then undercut the other bidders or intercept the guy doing the drop. On the other hand, if a guy's talking about blowing up a building and you run up to him and say "here's a bomb and here's how you can do it!" - that's pretty much entrapment. If fact that's so entrapment it's stupid.
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btr1701 (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
> On the other hand, if a guy's talking about blowing up a building
> and you run up to him and say "here's a bomb and here's how you
> can do it!" - that's pretty much entrapment.

Actually, it's not. Entrapment is when law enforcement induces someone to do something which they are not already predisposed to do.

If a guy is talking about wanting to blow up a building, then he's already predisposed to doing it.
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sting_operation

Take a quick glance at the 5th bullet down in the Examples section. Just need to ask yourself if this is a day when you'll trust Wiki.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:38pm

This is recruiting an at-risk kid, training him to be a drug dealer, and then arresting him when he goes to sell some drugs. They could have just gotten him into an after-school program

That is pretty funny, I love your humor, after school program. That is a good one.
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Pierre Wolff (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:41pm

Re: Re: FBI Portland bust
Sadly both he and us are the victims, though it appears that neither he nor us are victims of terrorism, but rather victims of the FBI's political tactics. What is happening as a result of such farces is far more dangerous to our country and the turn it's taking in the name of security fm boogeymen, then had a bomb actually gone off.
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btr1701 (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:45pm

Re: Re:
> They could have just gotten him into an after-school program.

Ho-leee shit.

God, I hope you're being sarcastic.
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interval (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:47pm

Re: Re: Re:
Ok, on this point we're in agreement; these tactics are NOT being properly employed. I guess the diff. between us is I have no hope whatsoever that where the government is involved, THEY WILL NEVER BE PROPERLY EMPLOYED. Seriously, what does the government do other than collect taxes with real efficiency? And; they probably don't do that very well, assuming my suspicions with regard to the field agent/dollars collected ratio is what I think is it.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 2:52pm

Re:
Hey, this is easy, post "Terrorist Wanted" ads in the Personals section of Craigslist and when they show up, bag'em and load them into a van, drive to the nearest football stadium/town square, phone Fox News and then shoot them in the head from behind... end of terrorism!
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:05pm

Re: Re: Re: FBI Portland bust
What is happening as a result of such farces is far more dangerous to our country and the turn it's taking in the name of security fm boogeymen, then had a bomb actually gone off.

Talk about extremism abroad, we have it right here on TD.

So you're claiming that the FBI nabbing this would-be terrorist is more dangerous that if he actually killed hundreds of people, including woman and children? Holy shit bro.
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:07pm

Re: What are the smart ones up to?
You're totally right. The FBI, DHS and all other counter-terrorism units ONLY employ the tactics as described in this one article, namely: sting operations.

/fail
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Also in agreement.

The US government could fuck up a free coffee.
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teka, 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:23pm

Re: Re: Re:
god i hope you try reading that again.

i would never suggest that someone involved in a bombing plot, no matter how much encouragement and support they get from the FBI, end up an "an after school program"

That was of course an example of criminalizing someone instead of dealing with them earlier.

Instead of recruiting him into an interesting plot, they could have simply let a troubled kid go work as a fisherman, perhaps turn his life around. Or simply continue to monitor him (as they obviously were monitoring an American citizen who had no known history of violence, no super-special terrorist training and no apparent link with any plot until they contacted him) and let him go about his legitimate business.

Just, you know, options.

But for some reason they had to build a bogeyman to overcome.
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Since...?
Ah...the ever-classic reductio ad Hitlerum argument.
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DS, 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:31pm

So, this "kid" tries to contact known terror groups, we get the info, and we help him carry out what he wanted to do, except that we hooked up up with equipment that would fail.

Ok, so what's the outrage?
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: FBI Portland bust
...and if he only managed to blow himself up trying to make a bomb out of shotgun shells and thumb tacks? You are loading the question, as is evident by the "including women and children" tomfoolery you typed. (Honestly, you think age or gender make a life more or less valuable?)

Try this: Every dollar and man-hour wasted turning this misguided bastard into a threat just to have the chance to stop said threat is a dollar and a man-hour that *should* have been used actually making America safer.
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fogbugzd (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:48pm

Re: Re: What are the smart ones up to?
The question is why they are wasting any resources on this type of operation. A sting to bring down a real threat might be worthwhile, but that is not what they are doing. They are actively recruiting people who are not a sigificant threat any putting a lot of resources into developing them into something that sounds dangerous.

Of course they are doing other things. Apparently my sarcasm was too subtle for you. Perhaps you should call your local FBI office and volunteer your services.
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FBI Portland bust
The man in question attempted mass murder, and you have the liberal prejudice to simply call him "misguided"? Was the Khmer Rouge just wacky bunch in your worldview?
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bob, 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:56pm

America Lost It's Liberty
Randy Weaver
David Koresh
How many others?
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lux (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 3:58pm

Re:
You're right on point. Some folks would claim this man was entrapped, and therefore he's the victim here - even though he willfully attempted to mass murder. America, the land of opinions.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 4:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FBI Portland bust
He wanted to attempt it and our government helped him attempt it. I, personally, am more concerned with those people who don't need our government's help to attempt mass murder. They should try and stop *those* people.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 4:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
> But for some reason they had to build a bogeyman to overcome.

I think you're forgetting the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the Peace Dividend. Without a horrific bogeyman, funding of the Military-Industrial Complex tends to fall. I realize that sounds all conspiracy-theory-ish, but really, I also think it's true. Terrorism has become the new communism.
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Phillip Vector (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 5:11pm

Re:
Your feeling safe is unacceptable at your security clearance citizen. Please report for termination. Feeling safe is mandatory. Have a nice day.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 6:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Since...?
Ah Padawan, you have much to learn.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 6:30pm

"Even that is hardly new."

The govt has been engaging in these entrapment scams for some time now. There is an episode on This American Life about this discussing how Hemant Lakhani and others were entrapped.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/387/arms-trader-2009

Hardly new.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 6:54pm

Basically, the govt is much too stupid to stop a real terrorist so the best they can do is to stop their own fake terrorist and, they're so stupid, they even botched that and got caught. I feel so much more secure now that I know that my safety is in the hands of such stupidity.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Nov 2010 @ 6:56pm

"I remember a fascinating episode of This American Life back from the summer of 2009 describing (in great detail) a very similar story of a supposed "arms dealer" that the Justice Department championed as a success story when it arrested and prosecuted him for selling missiles to terrorists."

Dang, I should have read the rest of your article before posting my first post.
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RandomGuy (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 7:04pm

Re: Re: 1993 WTC bombing
Troll? The FBI does these kind of things, y'know.
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Anonymous 4, 30 Nov 2010 @ 11:10pm

I don't know the case law, but I don't see how Mohamud can be charged with "attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction". He is guilty of 'desire to use a weapon of mass destruction', but how criminal is that? If someone squeezes off a squirt gun at someone they desire to kill, is that attempted murder? Doesn't there have to BE a REAL WMD to be charged with attempted use of it? ...thought crime...? Dial 1-800-LNCH-NUK....
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BearGriz72 (profile), 30 Nov 2010 @ 11:57pm

Re: (What. The. Fuck.)
I live in the Portland Oregon Metro area, so I have done some Major Digging and this is a VERY big issue.

From: The second linked article below
"According to legal experts, it comes down to whether the suspect had a predisposition to commit acts of terror. In other words, was he thinking and planning to carry out a plan before he began talking with federal agents or did they plant the seed? What is critical, however, is the very first meeting between Mohamud and the federal agents and whether it was the agents who first suggested the attack."

--&--

"The FBI recording equipment malfunctioned during that initial meeting and so the accusations that Mohamud wanted to commit acts of terror come only from the undercover agent�s own words."
I personally find this very suspicions, the information that I have found shows that the FBI has multiple recordings of their interactions with Mohamed Osman Mohamud. (The 19-year-old Somali-born man accused of plotting to bomb a popular Christmas Tree lighting ceremony here in Portland.) I find this VERY problematic, the most important meeting of the whole case and the didn't get a good recording? I wonder why they did not somehow bring it back up in a later conversation when the recording equipment WAS working.

This is NOT to say I think he is innocent, but it does raise questions.
From the first linked article below
"Prosecutors say that agents let the plot string out to its end, with Mohamud feverishly dialing a cell phone number he thought would touch off the bomb, so that they could gather enough evidence to support the single charge he faces, attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction."
Of course another question is does a simple car bomb, although undoubtedly horrible actually qualify as a "weapon of mass destruction". Most people consider a WMD to be a Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical Weapon, I have seen nothing like that mentioned. Did Mohamud believe this was supposed to be a radiological dispersion device (AKA "Dirty Bomb"), or is this more over-hype from our friendly neighborhood "Three Letter Agencies".

In other news, the FBI is investigating a fire that destroyed part of an Islamic center in Corvallis, where Mohamud occasionally worshipped while attending Oregon State University. (Links Included)
_________________________________________________________________________

Here are the (mostly local) sources I reviewed:

1� Lawyer, friends: Bomb plot suspect was 'set up' by FBI
2� Entrapment test clear, but glitch may muddy it
3� Lawyer hints at entrapment defense in Portland terror plot
4� Mohamud�s attorney experienced with terror cases
5� FBI terror stings have critics, but court record is solid
6� Details revealed: How FBI snared Portland bomb plot suspect
7� The FBI successfully thwarts its own Terrorist plot
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
8� Did the Internet incite Portland's bomb plot?
9� What About that Other Terrorism Case?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
10� Police: Islamic center fire caused by liquid
11� Clues found in Corvallis mosque arson probe
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BearGriz72 (profile), 1 Dec 2010 @ 12:00am

Re:
"Thanks for your comment.
It will be reviewed by our staff before it is posted."

Dammit I did it again...
I wonder if it was because it was so long or because of the numerous links to sources?
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BearGriz72 (profile), 1 Dec 2010 @ 12:03am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Since...?
Godwin's?
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btr1701 (profile), 1 Dec 2010 @ 4:52am

Re: Attempt
> Doesn't there have to BE a REAL WMD to be charged with attempted
> use of it?

Nope. If I hand you a gun with blanks in it and you think it's loaded with real bullets, you're guilty of attempted murder if you point it at someone and fire.

That's been a well-established legal principle for 200+ years.
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Marvin, 1 Dec 2010 @ 4:54am

FBI
How nice, they spend 15 MONTHS and easily a MILLION dollars entrapping a 19 year old that "WANTED" to do harm ......
but they could not spend 15 DAYS investigating the WORST ACT OF ACTUAL DOMESTIC TERRORISM IN HISTORY.
At the time of the Oklahoma Bomb, the "media" reported on the Citizen's Militia which included 95 year old Hattie Farley, ANOTHER victim of Sanilac County Official(s) CORRUPTION. The media did NOT report on the violence prone, extremist, elements which which were OPPOSED by the Citizen's Militia. Look up the FBI's "Project Megiddo" report, and in that look up the "united States Theatre Command" which was HEADQUARTERED in SANILAC COUNTY and whose "commandant" was David E. Rydel, SANILAC COUNTY resident. the Friend and Business Partner of Virgil Strickler, the SHERIFF. The Oklahoma Bomb SHOULD have ushered in a "STERILIZATION" of Sanilac County. Most of Sanilac County's "officials" belong IN Guantanamo.
Sanilac County. PROUD HOME of the OKLAHOMA BABY BOMBERS. Even the SHERIFF Strickler was tied into the MILITIA. The "FUMBLING FEDS" did a %$#@ LOUSY job of "investigating", and the journalists did also. Worth Township there had a Supervisor flying CONFEDERATE FLAGS at his house, until he had to hide them. For years the Sheriff AND State Police regularly walked past his black-painted lawn jockey holding a Confederate flag as they entered his house to socialize.TERRORISTIC Governmental attacks on citizens is the NORM up there.
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Steve, 1 Dec 2010 @ 5:33am

Fake terror vs real terror
Forget these fake terrorist attacks. Remember the real terrorism, 9/11 and Israel, here:
http://www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000190526
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nasch (profile), 1 Dec 2010 @ 10:24am

Re:
Personally I don't have a problem with the arrests, it's crowing about stopping terrorism (that would never have happened anyway) that's the problem.
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Hyman Rosen, 1 Dec 2010 @ 10:54am

FBI Stings
One of the benefits of such sting operations is that it makes accomplishing attacks more difficult by sowing suspicion among potential attackers. When you cannot be sure that your supposed partners are not actually FBI informants, you will need to spend many more resources on verifying their bona fides than you would otherwise.
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Anonymous Coward, 1 Dec 2010 @ 2:04pm

Re: Re: Re:
Stings work well for big fish, who are actively engaged in crime.
[citations needed but easily found : see savings and loans]

That is not the case here.
Why not focus on him after he goes to a Pakistani training camp? Are you really that comfortable with the government enforcing prior restraint this way?
To your second point: He willing attempted what he was encouraged to do by the FBI. You have no problem with that?
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PrometheeFeu (profile), 1 Dec 2010 @ 2:47pm

I feel much safer knowing that many of the already few terrorist plots were bogus.
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Pseudonym, 1 Dec 2010 @ 6:48pm

Re: funding
No, it doesn't excuse his actions, but imagine how the public would feel about this if Islam and terrorism weren't involved.

Suppose you took a poor, young, lonely, white American, who because of their socioeconomic circumstances and upbringing is at risk of leading a life of gang-related crime. Perhaps they've already expressed antagonism towards law enforcement, or are already using drugs (and thus are already technically doing illegal things).

You're in authority. Which of the following two general approaches sounds better to you?

Approach #1: You befriend them and give them a job, perhaps a trade. You encourage them into the respectable and legal workforce, and perhaps try to help them complete their education. If they're addicted to something, you help them get off it, so they don't mix with criminals any more. You give them a circle of peers of people who got out of bad situations so they have someone to talk with and lean on should that be necessary.

Approach #2: You befriend them, and secretly groom them into joining a fake criminal gang. You start by giving them small tasks which aren't necessarily criminal acts in and of themselves, provide them with an income which they understand is from illegal sources, and promise them more if they participate more fully. Then you stage a big crime, perhaps a bank robbery or a drug deal, and encourage this person to be involved. At this point, you spring the trap, arrest them and congratulate yourself that you've taken a dangerous person off the street.

Does anyone, anywhere, think that approach #2 is ever the right idea? If it were ever found to have happened, there would be hell to pay!

If you want to stop people ending up in organised crime groups, regardless of whether those groups are trying to sell meth or trying to blow up buildings, you should be doing everything you can to steer them away from those gangs. This should be a no-brainer but, as Lawrence Lessig would say, there are apparently no brains involved here.

Hell, it'd even make some kind of logic had they used the kid as bait to try to catch someone higher up the chain. I'd still feel sorry for the kid, but at least it would have been more-or-less productive work for a law enforcement agency.

I don't want to give the wrong impression here. The sort of people the FBI locates are probably the sort of impressionable, easily-swayed individuals who could be radicalised into committing some horrible act. But something is deeply wrong when it's the FBI doing the radicalising.
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Gregg Leblanc, 2 Dec 2010 @ 7:08am

True but, well maybe also
Well its a fact that he told people he hated america and emailed someone, on his own, to ask about joining the holy war.
While I don't dispute the fact the the whole plot was conceived by the FBI, but since he did reach out to someone on his own, it shows that it was only a matter of time before he did something, what that something is I dont know but he did want to harm people living here just for being american, so at least he was stopped before he could of done something.
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