Lee Harvey Oswald's Brother Sues Funeral Home For Selling Oswald's Old Coffin

Obama Nominates Former Top RIAA Lawyer To Be Solicitor General

from the well-that's-just-great dept

Tue, Jan 25th 2011 7:12am — Mike Masnick

This has actually been rumored for quite some time, but now it's official. President Obama has nominated one of the RIAA's top litigators, Donald Verrilli to replace Elena Kagan as Solicitor General. Verilli, of course, was instrumental in leading the RIAA's case against Grokster. He was apparently also involved in Viacom's fight against YouTube (according to Wired -- I didn't know that previously). In other words, he's been the copyright maximalists' go to guy in court for extending and twisting copyright laws in anti-competitive and free speech-destroying ways. So, it seems we should expect a pretty strong defense of the government seizing domain names in violation of the First Amendment.

Of course, I find it kind of amusing that Darrell Issa and anti-Google lobbying group Consumer Watchdog are still claiming that the administration is in Google's pocket. As far as I know, many of the former top Googlers who did go to the White House have since left (some in frustration), while Obama has been hiring all sorts of folks who are about as anti-Google as can be into top roles. Beyond Verilli, Obama has also hired Bill Daley, who had been president of SBC (now AT&T), which has gone out of its way for years to try to take down Google. Where exactly is Google's "power" in the administration these days?

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Filed Under: donald verrilli, elena kagan, president obama
Companies: riaa

199 Comments

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johnjac (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 6:50am

One would think...
One would think that a requirement for such a position would be to have some major successes under you belt.

Guess not.
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Miles (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:21am

Re: One would think...
Wha? He's got the one prerequisite needed for the job:
-Spend millions on a wasted effort.

He's perfect for the job.
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:24am

Don't worry Masnick, nothing will slow down piracy, right?

hahahahahahaha
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The Groove Tiger (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:29am

Re:
Muahahahahaha!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:33am

Welcome to "even Obama gets it".

He went to power with all this Google and other "free information" universe people. What he has found out in a little over 2 years in power is that piracy and it's close relative counterfeiting, are major drags on the US economy. They appear to have realizes that it nice to be extreme leftist "everyone gets everything for free", but it isn't economically sound.

Appointments in the last little while have been much more business oriented, realizing that they need to move forward and re-level the playing field in all sorts of areas.

The alternative is 2 years from now having President Palin taking out pirates with her double barrel like she does deer.
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:38am

Re:
Right on brother. +1

Entertainment is one of the last things the US exports.

To think gov is just going to let it fly out the back door unpaid for, is delusional.
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Michael Barclay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:38am

**Lead** lawyer on Viacom v. YouTube
Don Verrilli wasn't just "involved" in Viacom v. YouTube, he was Viacom's lead lawyer and signed the complaint. See:
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2007cv02103/302164/1/
I wonder whose side the SG's office will take when that case hits the Supreme Court?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:39am

twisting copyright laws in anti-competitive and free speech-destroying ways.

Hyperbole much?

What free speech has this guy stopped? The free speech of piracy? Not really protected speech, is it?

How has he supported anti-competitive things? By working to shut down pirate sites and attempting to hold YouTube responsible for the methods they used to grow their business on the backs of others?

Come on Mike, your post sounds like the sour grapes of a little child who lost a game of tag in the playground.
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cc (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:44am

Re:
MUAhahahahahahahahaaaaa!!
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:44am

Re:
Masnick knows the gig is up.

His MO from here on out will be to describe all piracy enforcement efforts as assaults on the First Amendment.
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:51am

Re:
"The alternative is 2 years from now having President Palin taking out pirates with her double barrel like she does deer."
And there's some more of that wonderful violent rhetoric. Bet you were keeping score for her when the Arizona shooting happened, weren't you?

If you want to discuss things calmly and rationally, welcome aboard. If you want to continue insinuating that the world would be a better place if people you disagree with would be shot with double-barrel shotguns, please go swallow one yourself.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:51am

Entertainment *is* the last thing this country produces, sadly. It's on its last legs, and the Powers-That-Be are just trying to squeeze a little more juice out before it falls apart.

Actually, I foresee one more big US export in the near future: young, intelligent expats.
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TDR, 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:54am

Re: Re:
You're quite deluded, Anonymous. It's sad, really. Tell me, how do you expect to stop sneakernet? Darknets? Distributed DNS systems? You really have no idea what you're facing. And you consistently fail to provide any evidence for your position. Now give me specific evidence of how the sharing of a specific file at a specific time by a specific person has harmed a specific artist. Detailed, non-industry evidence, Anonymous. Either that or a complete retraction of everything you have ever said on this site. Now.
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Yogi, 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:57am

The Technological Taliban
The US is solidifying its position as a nation on a downward spiral - what nation would sacrifice its entire economic well- being and technological advancement to the benefit of one economically minor interest group? That's just insane.

Who would have believed that Obama would turn out to be worse than Bush? Who knows how many technologies will never see the light of day in America, how much business it will lose as a result of its anti-technological policies?

It's like the technological Taliban has taken power in America.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:59am

Re:
Do you honestly think this is going to slow down piracy? Now deserves a few hahas...
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 7:59am

Mr. Wolf.
It's fun to watch the trolls play with each other. I would *love* to know what makes them so happy that we now have a lawyer on our payroll whose claim to fame is failing. Twice.

What confuses me (about the trolls *and* Mike) is why it is assumed that the cases he has worked on reflect his personal feelings on the matter. I'm probably being naive, but taking those cases was just a job, right? He was told to sue these people, and paid to do so, so he did.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:00am

Re:
Oh you poor naive fool.....
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:03am

Re: Re:
Your question was complete after word number 4.
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:05am

Re: The Technological Taliban
More silly hyperbole.

"sacrifice its entire economic well-being and technological advancement"?

So you can rip off music, movies, software, etc?

LOL

You people are losing it...
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:06am

Re: Re:
Umm, apparently you mistook me for someone who supports Palin. I wouldn't support her for anything except perhaps meter maid.

Perhaps you want to take your head out of your freetard ass and try again?
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Haywood (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:08am

Re: The Technological Taliban
Tagged as insightful. Even if IP maximalists win in the end, what do they win? You still can't get blood from a stone, you aren't going to convert people who were never going to buy into customers. All they will have succeeded in doing is to help the world to leave us behind.

THE great IP wall of America.
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TDR, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:10am

Re: Re: The Technological Taliban
If you refuse to address me, Anonymous, you'll only be showing that I'm right. Besides, are you so much of a coward that you can't even put a name behind your crap? You're all bravado and no proof, which means you have nothing. What do you think you're accomplishing here? Nobody believes you. Nobody's going to change their mind. So you serve no purpose here. If this is what you're paid to do by your industry masters, it's a pitiful and useless job.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:11am

Re: Re: Re:
First off, distributed DNS is a fail - you use the same pipes, the same networks. Unless you are going to run all your own fiber, and set up your own alternative network, you are still on the same pipes. Doesn't matter how you try to hide.

If anything, using it shows a guilty mind, a desire to hide something. It's a big loser all around.

Sneakernet? Knock yourself out. I will be particularly interested to see which idiots are paid to swim the atlantic to take things to Europe.

Darknets? Please... go now. Go hide, and don't tell the rest of the public how to get in. That would resolve much of the piracy issue immediately.

Now give me specific evidence of how the sharing of a specific file at a specific time by a specific person has harmed a specific artist.

Oh boy, now there is a standard to measure up to. Who are you to demand this stuff? Don't get out of Mom's basement much? Attacks like yours suggest you are joining Mike in understanding that the gig is up. Anger. It's the first step in the process.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:13am

Re: Re: Re:
I too, thought you were supporting her.

PS- You should cut out all that "freetard" stuff, it has the opposite effect you're hoping for.

If you're here for a discussion, have one. If you're here to cause trouble, aka to troll, then you *really* need a hobby. If trolling *is* your hobby, well, you need to apply yourself, because "freetard" is just as pathetic as people who would call Pro-IP people "sheeple".
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Not an electronic Rodent, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:14am

Re: Re: The Technological Taliban
Can I lobby again for either an "Contains nothing useful or even funny" or "Don Quixote" voting button (or both) and the abilty to filter posts based on them so I don't have to wade through quite so much pointless and foundationless rhetoric to find comments worth reading?
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Overcast (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:15am

Hail to the Chief, he's your corporate buddy and neighbor.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:16am

Re:
As much as I despise the fact that this if from a Democratic blog / forum type place, Palin is most definitely NOT a hunter, and here is the best breakdown why:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/7/15845/6055

If she is whoever taught her failed at almost everything related to guns. She gets a grade of fail and should not be allowed to use guns until she relearns the basic safety stuff you learn in how to handle guns 101.
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Unless you are going to run all your own fiber, and set up your own alternative network, you are still on the same pipes. Doesn't matter how you try to hide."

Technology progresses as enforcement progresses. Zero sum game here.

"Sneakernet? Knock yourself out. I will be particularly interested to see which idiots are paid to swim the atlantic to take things to Europe."

That's what planes are for.

"Darknets? Please... go now. Go hide, and don't tell the rest of the public how to get in. That would resolve much of the piracy issue immediately."

Never answered that one. Guess deluding yourself leaves much to be desired on actually answering questions.

"Attacks like yours suggest you are joining Mike in understanding that the gig is up. Anger. It's the first step in the process."

Don't think anyone took it as a demand save you. But if you have nothing on the subject, all the vitriol does nothing to prove your point.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
None of you ever have any proof of actual harm. Just your emotional, empty pleas that "it hurts artists". You know what there is plenty of proof of hurting artists? The RIAA & MPAA. Them and their fuzzy accounting.
Until I see solid proof that piracy actually hurts artists, I will support the downfall of copyright.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:22am

Re:
Actually, abolishing copyright strikes me as more of a right wing thing. Free markets and all that.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:25am

Re: Re: Re:
and I now see it was also missing word #13 - "that"
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cryptozoologist (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:26am

that means he'll be in the hot seat
lets start a list of questions we would like to ask him at his confirmation hearing. i'll start:

Q: How can we rationalize the discrepency between the draconian penalties for file sharing with the actual miniscule damage inflicted?
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:26am

Re: Mr. Wolf.
I believe the odd part isn't so much that is gives insight into what his personal beliefs are, but that so many people in top positions around the government are from that one industry. Many people really high up in the DoJ, the Solicitor General, and many others all come from a single industry. It seems very slanted.
Also, while not any form of proof for Verrilli, so far all of those from that industry do seem to still be pushing the RIAA mantra even in their new positions. Or it could just be their new boss feels the same way as their old boss (anti technology and kill the future).
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:27am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
When someone acts like a jackwagon, they get called out. Sorry.

The person suggested that I was putting forward violent rhetoric and suggested I supported the shootings in Arizona. That is offensive. He should be lucky I only called him a freetard, rather than some of the other choice terms I could come up with.

Actually, I call the Masnick followers sheeple. They don't read past what is presented, they just look at the feast of free stuff in front of them and ignore logic as to why it is bad. They will stand over the spoiled feast soon enough, making themselves sick on the rotting remains. That is their problem, not mine :)
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:27am

Re: Re: Re:
Nice (false) generalization. Don't you have better things to do? Like lead musical acts into the ground and whine about piracy? Oh, wait... that's what you are doing... my bad.
Oh, my sincerest *snerk* apologies for the misunderstanding of your obviously sarcastic statement about what you think the alternatives are. I don't know how I EVER misread that.

See, sarcasm is not that hard to relay in a text-based environment.

And I do love how you lump me into a 'freetard' category since my statement didn't really have anything to do with the debate on free vs pay. I was calling you out on violent rhetoric and how you think shooting people who disagree with you is a better way to go.

Now, in all seriousness, I apologize if I misread your intention... Perhaps if you don't intend to give the impression of a gun-toting vigilante for the content industry, you should refrain from such violent statements as "shoot pirates with a gun" without using sarcasm indicators.
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Not an electronic Rodent, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:27am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
If anything, using it shows a guilty mind, a desire to hide something. It's a big loser all around.
So your position is that because they are "great american companies" and "supporting the US economy" it's fine for the content providing companies to read all your emails, check your browser history open your bank account, get your medical records, purchase histories, sexual preferences, notes from your shrink etc whenever they want them so they properly ensure that the electronic communication in question doesn't contain anything copyrighted?

Good to know. I think there's a number of rights holders and content creators post here so why don't you start by emailing Nina Paley your details to follow up on? Or does it only count when you have a certain amount of money? What's the magic number ( and what politician should it be sent to) to obtain access to that clearly needed service in your little world of absolutism?
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:29am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Nice (false) generalization. Don't you have better things to do? Like lead musical acts into the ground and whine about piracy? Oh, wait... that's what you are doing... my bad. "

Disregard that part... had that left over in my spell-checking word doc and didn't clear it out. My bad.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:30am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Jay, darknet means "not in the public eye". If piracy stays out of the public eye, most of the public won't participate. If piracy was cut in half because it was no longer public, no longer easy to find on search engines, and no longer just a walk in and take what you want sort of deal, things would be better for everyone.

Go play on your darknet, stay out of the light. Take the turds on the TPB and places like that with you. Piracy wouldn't go to zero, but you would stop dragging new people in the door.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nope, you are setting up a strawman. I didn't say any of that, you know it. Your argument is weak.

It isn't "all or nothing". When you get some life experience outside of the classroom, you will realize that everything happens in shades of grey, not the wonderful black and white world of debate class.

Why would I email anything to Nina Paley? I don't want to have dealings with her at all. I don't get where you are going with this. Perhaps you might want to try whole english sentences to explain your position more clearly?
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Planespotter (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:36am

Re: that means he'll be in the hot seat
Q: Where do the dollars go that people don't spend on the latest "Britney Spears Greatest Hit" album go if they download it via filesharing systems?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:36am

Re: Mr. Wolf.
I wonder at that too. How much is conviction and how much is just doin' yer job...

...although now he works for the US citizenry, doesn't he?
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:39am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
First off, distributed DNS is a fail - you use the same pipes, the same networks. Unless you are going to run all your own fiber, and set up your own alternative network, you are still on the same pipes. Doesn't matter how you try to hide.

I don't think you understand what Distributed DNS is supposed to prevent. It's not meant to hide anything at all, in fact, it's meant to help things *stay visible*. Sorry to ruin that argument, though. You've used it before at it seems like you really liked it.

If anything, using it shows a guilty mind, a desire to hide something. It's a big loser all around.

Ignoring the fact that the subject that spawned this gem of a statement was based on incorrect information, wishing to hide does not prove guilt. It proves fear. It can be a fear of being caught, yes, but it also can include a fear of being wrongly accused, or persecuted unjustly, etc.

Sneakernet? Knock yourself out. I will be particularly interested to see which idiots are paid to swim the atlantic to take things to Europe.

These idiots will do it. You fail at understanding what a "sneakernet" really is. (Hint: It doesn't involve actual sneakers.)

Darknets? Please... go now. Go hide, and don't tell the rest of the public how to get in. That would resolve much of the piracy issue immediately.

You also fail to understand the term "Darknet". My my, you certainly have a loose grasp of these things!

Who are you to demand this stuff?

Since every so-called "anti-piracy" law and every "piracy" lawsuit is *based* on the "fact" that filesharing hurts artists and will ruin creative sectors of the market, I think everyone has a right to demand it. Do you disagree?
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That's a false dichotomy... not a strawman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy

Don't mean to be picky... logical fallacies are a study of mine.
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:41am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
*rolls eyes*

Everyone here thinks with their own minds. They have their own thoughts about the morality of piracy and a government using copyright law to enforce draconian laws, all in "protecting" artists.

If you look, there's a LOT of artists that don't support this. 50 Cent called it a marketing strategy. Joss Stone won't sue her fans. Shakira actaully defended piracy.

The ones being made redundant are the ones who took advantage of artists.

If anything, follow who is complaining the loudest and you'll find the weakest position.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:44am

Re: Re: that means he'll be in the hot seat
A: They spend it elsewhere, be it on other forms of entertainment, they end up buying the CD anyways because they like it, they go out to a movie, the buy a new toaster, etc etc. Endless possibilities.
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
...

You do realize that actually makes no sense? If anything, what the government is doing, along with the record labels is going to cause MORE people to seek out what the fuss is.

It's as if you want to say McCarthyism helped Hollywood by blackmailing a few artists for being "Communist".
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:46am

The ACs sound very manic today...
Everytime something that seems to go in the IP maximalist types favor they come here to gloat, pat themselves on the back, and try to convince themselves that this will be the thing that saves them. It reminds me of how the iPad is going to save the newspaper industry.

What I like about the trolls is their total cluelessness and lack of understanding of technology and what is going on around them. They toss out terms like IPv6, ISP monitoring, three strikes, and think some combination will save them.

This is going to be fun to watch ...
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
*Facepalm*

Did you even READ the darknet paper? Go ahead, it is at http://msl1.mit.edu/ESD10/docs/darknet5.pdf. Note that darknet does not mean "not in the public eye" at all - in fact, the authors consider Napster of all things as an example of a darknet.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:51am

Google (and maybe IBM) is about the only innovative company developing technology in the U.S. and the government gives power to those who only hinder innovation (the lawyers) instead. They hate innovation, and they especially hate innovation that some IP maximist big corporation doesn't own exclusive privileges to use.
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And a major eyeroll for you for hoping copyright, one of the principals the US was founded upon, is going to go away. Most amusing.

The ones being made redundant are the ones who took advantage of artists.

And that of course, would be you, Freetardo.
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julie, 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:55am

This is in addition to the FIVE former RIAA lawyers that are high up in the Department of Justice.

Looks like the Obama Administration doling out another gift to Hollywood, who loves shoveling money at Democrats. This is their plan after getting whooped in the election.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 8:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If anything, using it shows a guilty mind, a desire to hide something. It's a big loser all around.

I call a big BULLSHIT on this one. I do not and will not feel guilty for wanting privacy. Period.

How ironic that this statement comes from an anonymous poster.
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:01am

Re:
"They hate innovation"
Not really... they hate change. Change = risk, and (most specifically) a threat to their power. And by "they", I do mean the government itself, not necessarily individuals therein.

If you look back, the Powers That Be (cue thunder) have always tried to hinder change. No difference here. Then, it was challenging the shape of the earth, the center of the universe, how old the earth is� now, we have the challenges over who has the authority over recorded ideas and emotions.

Once you boil it down, the music and movie (and book) industries are all about controlling the distribution of those thoughts and emotions. The technology available now challenges their control over that distribution. But at least this time, no one�s been burned at the stake. Well, not yet, anyway.
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the Hollywood accounting. Remember that little phenomenon?

Here's a refresher:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:02am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
When you learn to stop implying that people support mass killers, you will get respect. Until then, you are a jackwagon barely worth the time to think about. You are also a 'tard, just pick your own flavor I guess.
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Berenerd (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:03am

Re: Re:
Fail troll fails. kthxbi
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That isn't a darknet. Sheesh.

You can call a tail a leg, you still can't stand on it. "darknet" is the idea of something that cannot be seen, is "in the dark". Napster is a "dark" like 2nd base at a night baseball game in Yankee Stadium.

They may have hijacked the name, but that isn't a dark net. that is the most public and most widely seen of all.
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"copyright, one of the principals the US was founded upon"
I'm curious... how do you qualify that statement? I know copyright is in the constitution, etc etc... but I don't remember it being in the Declaration of Independence. This will probably just be a difference of opinion here, but I always felt that our country was founded on the ideas that: no one person has absolute authority, the power of the government is given by the governed, and no one may be denied 10 (at the time) basic rights.

Unless you have a good philosophic reason for claiming copyright is a founding ideal, I'm going to have to mark this one in my book as "claiming patriotism as a defense of IP laws" and roll my eyes at it.
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
In all honesty, some of these positions and statements made by IP-maximalists do make me feel violent toward them. Mostly, this stems from their willingness to discard many of the principles upon which this country (US) was founded. There is a reason for the 2nd Amendment, and it still exists. If these people succeed in eroding what our fore fathers fought for, you can damn well bet that I, and many others I know, will be taking up arms.
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:09am

Re: One would think...
Are you talking about the position of PofUSA? (rimshot)
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:11am

Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
After reading this site and others, dancing in the streets every time someone manages to slither through the legal system and find an out (the file wasn't on my server, I didn't do it, some anonymous person did it), it is only fitting that you all get to enjoy eating crow. Quite simple, the tide is turning (actually started about 18 months ago now), and continues to flow against the pirate world. It was fun while it lasted, but there is little tolerance for it anymore. Once it became a drag on the economy (and the economy as a whole fell into the dumper), it became time for the government to start acting.

What I like about the trolls is their total cluelessness and lack of understanding of technology and what is going on around them. They toss out terms like IPv6, ISP monitoring, three strikes, and think some combination will save them.

What is funny is watching the pirate apologists trying to some up with some way to support piracy without supporting piracy (Masnick tries so hard). At the end of the day, the only reasons these solutions are being pushed is because the children can't control themselves.

Your actions online would be entirely different if your IP address was unique and followed you everywhere. You would be so much less likely to break the law if you actually thought you could get caught. Times are changing my friend, just as the TD ilk was singing and dancing about for the last 5 or 6 years in the other direction, you need to now accept that the free ride is just about over, the bright lights are being shined into the dark corners of the online world, and there will be fewer places to hide. Widespread lawbreaking isn't tolerable in our society, no matter how much you try to justify it.
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:11am

Re: Mr. Wolf.
"I would *love* to know what makes them so happy that we now have a lawyer on our payroll whose claim to fame is failing. Twice."

It gives them hope that this might save "their copyright". What I find amusing is how they have never been right in anything they have tried in the past, and they expect that this time will be different.
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
hmmm... interesting... You put in your post "taking out pirates with her double barrel" with no disclaimer of sarcasm. When you're called out on it, you make childish insults like " 'tard" and "freetard" when the original discussion had nothing to do with free vs pay.

And you think I'm worried about your respect? Heh. Try again pal. You're a troll of the worst kind... you come in here anonymously and make inflammatory statements about killing people, then drop "freetard" on anyone who doesn't agree with you on anything. You�re right on your post here:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110124/17422712805/obama-nominates-former-top-riaa-lawyer-to-be -solicitor-general.shtml#c529
When someone acts like a jackwagon, they do get called out on it.
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Not an electronic Rodent, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
OK I'll say it again and use smaller words. The only way to completely stop copyright infringement whether it is on the "same wire" or not is to read and analyse every single communication everywhere because otherwise it is a random series of 1's and 0's. You have no way of knowing whether it contains something that it shouldn't. Assuming such a thing is even possible it would require the analysis or many if not all things that are nothing to do with the subject at hand because as you point out it uses "the same pipes, the same networks". Oh and suggesting encryption is in and of itself suspicious is fun too - the very companies you support use it extensively... sell it in fact.
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Last I checked, it was "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness". Not "life, liberty, and pursuit of handout"
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
To be fair, I read him as he is claiming. I thought it was a potshot at Palin which I tried to ignore (like most politics).
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The non-morons-in-a-hurry followed you perfectly, and it is exactly the point you are making that I find most scary.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:26am

Re: One would think...
Yeah right. Obama gave the to Homeland job to Nappy. She was one of Arizona's worst governors. Did nothing for the state, did nothing about illegals (pandered to them even and fought the law enforcement that did do something about them), etc. She did nothing to deserve the post she's in now.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:30am

Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Your actions online would be entirely different if your IP address was unique and followed you everywhere.

Unfortunately for you, this will never happen. If such a system tries to get implemented, I for one, would never use it and the Geek Legions would be writing code to route around it.

Widespread lawbreaking isn't tolerable in our society.

Which is why laws that are not followed by the majority are either reversed or simply not enforced.
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TDR, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:37am

I note, Anonymous, that you still have not given me the evidence I asked for. It only proves me right. Do it or give a complete retraction of everything you have ever said on this site. Now.
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:40am

Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Sorry pal, you're not going to have a choice in the matter.

IPv4 has run out of addresses. And it's usefulness.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
I am somewhat confused, as your reply has no basis on what you are replying to. Unless you yet again misunderstand the topic at hand, which seems to be where you excel, and therefore likely.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
And again, IPv6 is not going to magically preserve media monopolies.
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Johnny, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:55am

Re:
Hollywood has always supported Democrats, so no surprise that once in power the dems favor Hollywood... I don't think deer hunter Palin would really care about Hollywood's problems, as Hollywood will never make films remotely in line with her "values".
Now if Hollywood and Palin could just destroy each other that would be the best of both worlds :-)
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:55am

Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
You make me laugh.

"Quite simple, the tide is turning (actually started about 18 months ago now), and continues to flow against the pirate world. It was fun while it lasted, but there is little tolerance for it anymore."

Actually what you have is a bunch of people who have managed to screw up everything they have touched in the past. That have been appointed to positions of power and will now follow through with their "grand plan" to curb infringement.

Infringement is not what is killing the record labels, it is competition, singles -vs- albums, and not being able to sell the same product multiple times to the same person.

For 50 years there were only two forms of electronic home entertainment radio and TV. Now you have competition from over 5 million bands on myspace and elsewhere, gaming, texting, emailing, blogging, surfing the web, chatting, social media, YouTube, PornTubes, and a ton of other things. All of which eat away at the time people have available for music or TV. Your slice of the pie has gotten smaller and will continue to shrink.

singles -vs- albums ... nuff said everyone gets this point.

Digital is the final format (mp3 or FLAC), and it doesn't degrade. Gone are days of unwould cassette tapes, worn and scratched records, needing to buy a new copy when the format changed.

Between being over extended financially, facing competition, and making really bad business decisions, you guys are so shit out of luck.

"Your actions online would be entirely different if your IP address was unique and followed you everywhere."

You really don't know much about routing tables, DNS, or how the all this wonderful technology works, do you?

"Widespread lawbreaking isn't tolerable in our society, no matter how much you try to justify it."

This isn't promoting the progress, its promoting the police state.
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
"And again, IPv6 is not going to magically preserve media monopolies."

Let him have his delusions and hope. People need hope.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:02am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
LOL...You are severely underestimating the all wonderful people who have created whole open source operating systems that are free from corporate and government influences. OS's that never phone home, are free from DRM and without invasive backdoors. These are the people who will render whatever restrictions that are put in place obsolete almost as soon as they are put in place. And they will do it, not because they are paid to, but because it is their passion.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:02am

Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
You clearly don't understand... Many of the people here want IP legislation changed. We don't feel the laws are just. It's not a matter of wanting things for free. The laws have changed since they were written... and they should. Times change. The problem I have with the current legislation is that it favors the *IAA, not the public or the artists. Just a few individuals who take the cash from their coffers and purchase more slanted legislation. You can try to twist the reasoning but in the end, you're an industry shill with no facts cited to support your beliefs.
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Johnny, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Darknet isn't about the network not being seen, it's about traffic not being traceable, and storage not physically locatable. You can get stuff, but you can't know where it came from. It simply can't be censored.
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Andrew D. Todd, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:09am

How Sneakernet Works
Sneakernet works for things which are fairly common, things which, say, one person in a hundred already has. I watched Sneakernet in operation, back in the 1980's, before some people here were born. At that date, Sneakernet carried things like Lotus 1-2-3, a spreadsheet program which cost a couple of hundred dollars. It also carried Microsoft QuickBasic, which had not yet been bundled into MS-DOS. There was always a locally-known "pack rat," who traded for programs, whether he needed them or not, and could supply one with a copy of any program in moderately common use, subject to the usual quid pro quo. Microsoft never really did figure out how to sell freestanding software to individuals, in competition with Sneakernet. What it did do was to figure out how to sell bundled packages to OEM's and corporate IT departments.

The RIAA is committed to a business model in which there are only a thousand songs or so. That means that to make their accustomed revenue (let us notionally estimate it at ten billion dollars), each song has to earn an average of at least ten million dollars, and sell at least twenty million copies. These twenty million copies are distributed over the billion or so inhabitants of the developed countries, because obviously the third-world countries and China do not pay royalties. That means that one person in fifty has a copy of a typical song.

So, if you have three hundred kids on a school playground, who probably have a rather higher propensity to consume recorded music than the general population, it is a reasonable assumption that ten or twenty of them will have copies of any song in the top thousand. If those three hundred kids hold an efficient swap meet, they will all have the full thousand songs. I suppose that there would probably be trading specialists, kids who knew all about every song, and what it was worth, and who would trade among themselves at a higher level than they traded with the mass of kids in the schoolyard. A playground with three hundred kids might have twenty specialists.

Of course, you can construct a two-tier model, reflecting the fact that kids do not all go to the same school system. The catchment areas of the Catholic parochial school system do not precisely correspond to those of the public schools, so kids who are neighbors at home might well be going to different schools. So new music can jump, virus-like, from one schoolyard to the next.
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:09am

Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
"What is funny is watching the pirate apologists trying to some up with some way to support piracy without supporting piracy (Masnick tries so hard)."

I am not a "pirate apologists". I am an part time analyst trying to determine when the labels and TV studios will fail. The problem is everything that is done to protect "COPYRIGHT" from the "Pirates" has shortened how long they will survive. These people are all very self defeating. They are not business men in any sense of the word, they are monopolists who don't know how to compete.
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Johnny, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Darknet maybe isn't the best term for what I described. Anyway, this is the kind of "Darknet" that I meant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet
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Free Capitalist (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:14am

Re:
Appointments in the last little while have been much more business oriented, realizing that they need to move forward and re-level the playing field in all sorts of areas.

If by "re-level the playing field" you mean trying to return to the days when talented independent artists had no avenue or palpable hope for making a sustainable income on their own, then you're probably on the right track. It will never happen, but I'll bet that's the objective, yes.

This is just another case of pissing down our backs and calling it rain. Or in this case, "transparency".
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Free Capitalist (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:37am

Re: Re:
Entertainment is one of the last things the US exports.

That's funny, while the politicians like to spout "whatever", the data shows entertainment exports "ain't shit".

You want to be in industrial and capital goods, son.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:44am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You probably want to get help for that. Perhaps Mike can provide your IP address to the authorities so they can come by and make sure you aren't armed. Sounds like you are about to have a moment.
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Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:46am

Re: Re: Re: that means he'll be in the hot seat
Next thing you know, the RIAA will be suing toaster manufacturers for taking 'their' money.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Gabriel, you need to learn how to read clearly. It isn't an encouragement, rather pointing out the alternative to the current administration appears to be a someone who thinks using a double barrel shotgun is a great solution to problems. Not only do I not agree with her, I think her ilk is exactly what is wrong with politics in the US.

You are fast to jump to a conclusion, a wrong one, and you look like a jackwagon for doing it. Tissue?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:49am

Re: Re:
you mean trying to return to the days when talented independent artists had no avenue or palpable hope for making a sustainable income on their own

Not at all. Your answer is the problem, because you are mixing the rights of the artist to distribute their work as they please with piracy, which is the distribution of work against their rights.

If independent / up and coming / never going anywhere artists want to spread their work for free, more power to them. Have a nice time, enjoy it. Knock yourselves out. Copyright does not in any way stop that from happening. That is their choice as artists.

Where there is a problem is artists (or the people they have signed contracts with) who don't want their music distributed this way. This is their choice, and people should respect it.

It isn't an all or nothing world as you try to paint it. If new artists want to work differently from the existing music industry, they are free to do so. They just shouldn't be dragging people who aren't willing to work that way down to their level. That sucks.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:52am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Enjoy them.

I don't get it. If you love that stuff so much, just use it and leave everything else alone. Why do you insist that people should have the right to pirate all this other stuff if you don't want it anyway? Why is there all this negative talk, and then all the software, music, and movies you despise are the most popular downloads?

Lead the revolution. Stop downloading copyright materials. stop listening to copyright music. Stop watching copyright movied. Quit whining about piracy being some sort of right. Just do it for real. Use what is freely available, and don't participate in the copyright culture. Step up. You can do it.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:54am

Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
One thing for sure, you will have a job for a long time to come, because they aren't going anywhere. Until you accept that basic concept, you are in trouble.

I understand, your job depends on piracy. Congrats, now I undestand why you have a very one sided view of the world.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:57am

Re: How Sneakernet Works
Andrew, if you only share with your friends (like sneakernet always was) it takes a lifetime to get anything. Most people have very small circles of friends (typically less than 20) and that circle tends to overlap greatly. sneakernet isn't an issue because it is too slow, too patchy, and more than likely the exchanges don't happen. Certainly they don't happen at any speed that anyone worries about.

At the end of the day, torrent file trading works because it doesn't depend on social connections. When you slow things down to social connections only, real time, piracy drops to nearly nothing.
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:57am

Re:
That's just pointless... Why do you need it? Let the facts speak for you.
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:59am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
A moment? Your powers of perception over the internet are not very good. It's a good thing you are just a lawyer for some middlemen.

So, you're against the 2nd amendment, correct? I wish you people would just leave my country since you obviously don't believe in the principles upon which it was founded.
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AR (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"copyright, one of the principals the US was founded upon,"

Umm, before you go spouting unfounded statements, you need to learn what you are talking about. Read this and you will see how our founding fathers looked at property. just plug in the term "Intellectual Property".

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/jan/21/jay-hottinger/rep-jay-hottingers -assessment-founding-father-unfo/
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The founding fathers were initially very skeptical of IP laws. They only allowed them under the condition that they be very limited, and the constitution does not obligate their existence, it only gives congress permission to grant such privileges (it doesn't have to) under the conditions that they be used to promote the progress and last a limited time. Of course, neither of these conditions are being met (ie: constant copy privilege extensions and the laws hardly do anything to promote the progress).
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:12am

Re: Re: Re:
Oh, come on you condescending fucktard. As if the old way is superior, and it's "dragging down" anyone to operate in the new reality.

You don't want your clients' IP distributed? Keep it to your fucking self you entitled prick.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
I don't get it. If you love that stuff so much, just use it and leave everything else alone.

I do use it.

Why do you insist that people should have the right to pirate all this other stuff if you don't want it anyway?

Never said anything of the sort.

Lead the revolution. Stop downloading copyright materials. stop listening to copyright music. Stop watching copyright movied.

I listen to music and watch movies that I have legally purchased all the time. I just don't do it the way you wish me to. I watch my DVD's on my Linux box (having to circumvent the DRM to do so) and I listen to my ripped CD's on my iPod (after loading them with gtkPod). I also watch movies from my huge library of VCR tapes that I have taped from HBO and Showtime and such (which I considered purchased since I pay for those channels on my cable bill).

Quit whining about piracy being some sort of right.

Never said that either. My problem with with your enforcement of what you call Intellectual Property comes into play when you conflict with my rights, such as free speech, due process, privacy and the ability do what I wish with what I have legally purchased.
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jackwagon (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:21am

Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
...a lifetime to get anything? All you need is an external hard drive and an hour or two and you can have a few hundred gigs of mp3s (to keep as backups of music you legitimately purchased.) This is significantly faster than a torrent on a crappy DSL connection.
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
What version of english are you reading? How does what you wrote even come close to being a response?

Me - "I am not a "pirate apologists". I am an part time analyst trying to determine when the labels and TV studios will fail. The problem is everything that is done to protect "COPYRIGHT" from the "Pirates" has shortened how long they will survive. These people are all very self defeating. They are not business men in any sense of the word, they are monopolists who don't know how to compete."

You - Anonymous Coward - "One thing for sure, you will have a job for a long time to come, because they aren't going anywhere. Until you accept that basic concept, you are in trouble.I understand, your job depends on piracy. Congrats, now I undestand why you have a very one sided view of the world."

In all actuallity my job depends on people being stupid and short sighted. Which you seem to have plenty of. Did you take a course or were you born special?
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:22am

Re: How Sneakernet Works
The underlying concepts of sneakernet have been around forever under different names. It didn't really bug artists that much in the 70s and it's not going to bug us that much in the future.
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I'm glad we agree on the problem people like Palin represent. I do apologize for jumping to the conclusion that I did. However, I still stand by my statements that your reaction is just as accusatory and childish... makes you look like just as much of a jackwagon.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:25am

Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
It's easy enough to combine the internet to make "sneakernet" more effective.

Cragslist, for example.

"WTT one used 1TB hard drive for used 1TB hard drive. Works like new, not in original packaging. Expect the same for trade."

Ta da!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:35am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
constant copy privilege extensions and the laws hardly do anything to promote the progress

First off "constant extensions" just doesn't reflect the 5 changes made in 200 years. That is far from constant.

Second, there is no proof that progress isn't promoted. There are two ways that progress is promoted, in part by encouraging new expression instead of repeating the old, and also by encouraging people to think outside of the box rather than just wallowing in it.

By making repetition and copying less attractive, it leaves the other alternative (new speech, new music, new books, new movies) look way more attractive.

So sadly, that argument of "doesn't promote the progress" always falls flat, because it just isn't true.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:35am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Piracy wouldn't go to zero, but you would stop dragging new people in the door.
What are you on about?
Dragging people? They all come through those doors extremely willing and of their own free will. They seek out those doors because of people like you and the laws and restrictions you place on things.
So keep on keeping on and our side only grows stronger.
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:37am

Re: Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
Good point. Additionally, one could also use their facebook network where 'friends of friends' are at play (most people have about 200 FB fiends, iirc). In fact, one could make a fairly simple FB application that would allow for scheduling and file manifests, and whatever else would make it more efficient and user friendly to participate.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:41am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You bring up the second amendment, and you state that you "feel violent towards them" in reference to IP maximalists. In my world, that sounds like someone considering "actions".
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
One cannot prove it definitively either way. Quit pretending you, and you only, know the truth. You do not.

Progress was certainly promoted when those film making pirates went to Hollywood to avoid paying Edison patent royalties.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re: that means he'll be in the hot seat
And the popcorn farmers for wanting popcorn to be sold at the movie theatres. =)
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I am not a lawyer. I don't work in the music business. Please stop calling me names. Are you having a moment?
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: that means he'll be in the hot seat
And I am a huge idiot and meant to say corn farmers. Obviously it isn't grown as 'popcorn'. .. *cough cough*
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So, now you have a monopoly on name calling? Typical.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
You know, I would agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:52am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Yes, I'm sure you've never downloaded anything illegally...

And everyone in prison is innocent.

You people are such cowards.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
let me answer that very carefully and slowly, so you understand.

All internet communication has patterns. There are different patterns for web site visits, for watching a you tube video, for getting your mail, for chatting on skype, and yes, for sharing files. You don't even have to look at the content to know one from the other. packet sizes, connection patterns, number of incoming and outgoing requests, packet format, etc. Without looking at the actual content or trying to assemble stuff, the actions are actually pretty easy to see.

Most people surfing the web have few incoming connection, and have some outgoing (typically 4 to 10 at a time), and generally all to the same places. Someone using P2P will have many incoming connections from a wide variety of places, they will have outgoing connections to a wide variety of locations, and the packet sizes will all be very similar in nature.

After that, once you know who is using file sharing, you can figure out from the actual packets the protocols and such being used, and then even potentially determine what is being shared, either through packet inspection or simply by requesting packets until you have enough to see what is inside.

That is assuming the worse. In reality, once you have the IP address of someone who is sharing (because there is always some form of announce to let people find you in the P2P network) then you are easy enough to spot. You don't think that the copyright holders won't almost be part of those "dark" nets?

So I'll say it again: Until you stop using the network infrastructure, and until you stop allowing anyone you don't personally know into the circle of friends, you will always be open to be caught. Accept and understand it, it is a fact not a fiction.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:53am

Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
You have never played 7 ways to Kevin Bacon, have you?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Edison got a bad patent, no different from some of the patents issued today. We don't toss out the entire system because of some exceptional cases.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No I don't. I asked nicely. You may feel like an entitled prick allowed to call people names, that is your perogrative. I just ask that you don't.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:58am

Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
"Widespread lawbreaking isn't tolerable in our society, no matter how much you try to justify it."

This isn't promoting the progress, its promoting the police state.

I love your logic. By that standard, arresting drug dealers is bad because it doesn't promote progress for the dealers.

Come off it.

Enforcing the laws doesn't stop progress. They create the stability required for progress. You are pretending that enforcing the laws would stop everything. It just doesn't. You have nothing, nada, zilch to support your position. You do however have a job you want to keep. Now that we know what you do for a living, it sort of shades you comments. Now we know that you profit from the failures brought on by widespread lawbreaking. I guess for you, that is progress.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: that means he'll be in the hot seat
The saddest part is that I didn't even notice. Reading fail on my part.
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TDR, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:00pm

And you, AC, fail to understand that when the overwhelming majority of a population knowingly disregards a law, it is much more likely that said law is bad and unreasonable (ie Prohibition) and is much wiser to recognize that fact than to persist in the sad delusion that laws are infallible. They are not. It is not wrong to ignore a law that is wrong. That may be a strange concept to you, but it is true.
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I call the Masnick followers sheeple

A word that, ironically, tends to apply to only those who use it, I'm afraid. =/

(Obligatory XKCD link.)
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Lead by example.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Bad copyright exists too.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Have you ever infringed on someone's copyrights? I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out everyone has. This is the problem with copyright laws taken to this extreme.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
It's like looking in a mirror!
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
First off, distributed DNS is a fail - you use the same pipes, the same networks. Unless you are going to run all your own fiber, and set up your own alternative network, you are still on the same pipes. Doesn't matter how you try to hide.?

Distributed DNS isn't about "hiding". On the contrary, distributed DNS is about getting your address out to as many people as possible through alternative channels. I assume you just don't understand the term "DNS". (A copyright maximalist that doesn't understand technology? That's unpossible . . .)

And your argument about "being on the same pipes" (and therefore implicitly in view of the authorities) is rather laughable. Software like Freenet routes (and caches) encrypted content through multiple nodes on the network before it arrives at your computer, making it nearly impossible for anyone outside to know what is being passed around, and making it nearly impossible for anyone inside to determine who actually requested a particular piece of data.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
I have downloaded music.

I have done it to replace the cheaply made albums that became scratched. I have done it to replace the cheaply made 8-tracks that stretched. I have done it to replace the really cheap cassettes that fell apart. And I have done it to replace cheap CD's that cracked trying to release them from the jewel case.

Isn't getting my money for the same content two or three times enough or are you folks really that greedy?

I don't download any new music, because it usually sucks and if there is something I want (and it's been a long time) I buy the CD to support them.

I don't download movies because it isn't worth my time or hard drive space.

Now, I have come clean. What about you? Ever download anything illegally? Bet you have.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
I love your logic. By that standard, arresting drug dealers is bad because it doesn't promote progress for the dealers.

Holy fucking shit. No, really. That was awesome.

Let's walk through this together:

Copyrights were designed to promote the progress of the arts.

Drug laws are designed to keep us from having controlled substances.

So, arresting drug dealers does, in fact, keep people from going to that drug dealer for drugs. However, if actively block people from creating because they sampled 4 seconds of a 50 year old song, you are *not* promoting the progress of the arts, are you? So, enforcing the law in this regard makes no sense.

I find it *completely* amazing that you couldn't reason through that by yourself.

PS- I'll admit, though, that arresting drug dealers does very little to actually stop drug use, but that's a conversation for a different day, I think.
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
�Perhaps you want to take your head out of your freetard ass and try again?�
�When someone acts like a jackwagon, they get called out. Sorry.�
�Actually, I call the Masnick followers sheeple.�
�Until then, you are a jackwagon barely worth the time to think about. You are also a 'tard, just pick your own flavor I guess.�
�You are fast to jump to a conclusion, a wrong one, and you look like a jackwagon for doing it. Tissue?�
�Don't get out of Mom's basement much?�
"You may feel like an entitled prick allowed to call people names..."
-Anonymous Coward
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:24pm

Re:
Logic fail. (of course)

People disregarded copyright law because they knew they could get away with it. Duh. There was no enforcement.

Copyright law is unreasonable? And wrong?

You, (for many reasons, obviously) are a delusional person.

United States copyright law is not going away.

If you don't like it, move somewhere where there is no copyright law. And everything is free. Unicorns and skittles for everyone.
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:25pm

Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Your actions online would be entirely different if your IP address was unique and followed you everywhere.

Not really. My ISP can already tie an IP address to my computer at a particular date and time (that's how they catch a large portion of file sharers, after all).

That doesn't solve the problem of disentangling encrypted traffic that is purposefully routed inefficiently through multiple nodes so as to avoid anyone knowing who actually requested what.

Your grasp of technology seems to be a fragile thing . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
It;s called the "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" and that isn't how sneakernet works, that is how torrent P2P works. Sneakernet would be limited to people you could walk to and visit. For most people, that is less than 20 people, and likely a much smaller list that they would actually trade files with, especially if it is considered an illegal activity. Then people will only share with their trusted friends.

At that level, nobody would complain too much about piracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
freetard and sheeple are freebies on this site, matching up to IP Maximalist and industry shill. They are non-issues.

Jackwagon is a non-word, made up by advertisers. The humor in using it apparently is lost on you.

Mom's basement isn't name calling. It's is a statement of fact (unless proven otherwise).

Entitled prick is the other persons words sent back.

had enough yet?
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Fuck you, and your bull shit too.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Chris, I don't just understand DNS, I could draw you pictures and help you set up and DNS server if you like. No big deal.

Distributed DNS is about trying to eliminate any central point that controls DNS (even though this has never, ever been an issue). Often, it is used as part of a plan for an "alternate DNS" which would allow people to have sites using non-approved top level domains (TLDs). That is either to create a members only universe, or an attempt to hide by having things not be visible to outside parties (such as Googlebot).

As for your freenet argument,remember: The data goes somewhere. Actively connecting to a freenet node would be a good indication of someone trading files (or receiving them). See, all the "hiding" tools actually make you way more obvious, because normal people just won't do it.
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:37pm

Re: Re:
"logic fail" coming from the person who's argument amounts to "nuh UH!" and "LOL".

I'm not surprised in the least that you have no grasp of logic.
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
I don't think he got the "promote the progress" part. An IP maximalist that hasn't read the copyright clause or the constitution ... SSDD.

I am getting bored with this guy. We need to import a higher class of trolls and shills.
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JMT, 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:46pm

Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
"Quite simple, the tide is turning (actually started about 18 months ago now), and continues to flow against the pirate world. It was fun while it lasted, but there is little tolerance for it anymore."

There may be little tolerance in the RIAA/MPAA worlds, but you�re hardly seeing the general public on the streets protesting about these terrible crimes. Those not directly involved in on side of the debate or the other hardly seem to care at all, and they�d probably be in the majority.

"Once it became a drag on the economy (and the economy as a whole fell into the dumper), it became time for the government to start acting."

Wow, to even hint at conflating the GFC and copyright infringement is ridiculous. And there is absolutely no independent evidence that copyright infringement actually hurts any country�s economy. This evidence has been asked for countless times but never provided.

"Widespread lawbreaking isn't tolerable in our society, no matter how much you try to justify it."

Actually, societies have a long history of tolerating widespread breaking of laws that are felt to be wrong, immoral and outdated. Judging by the scale of copying of movies and music, a very significant proportion of society believes this to be the case with copyright laws. This is no surprise considering the most prominent supporters of these laws are the recording and film industry middlemen who have gone out of their way to rip off both artists and consumers for decades, and continue to fight so hard against what their customers actually want.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 12:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
Wait.. what? That's *exactly* how it works! You're right, my circle will probably only have a few dozen people. But those 24 people have a few dozen friends, and all our friends aren't likely to be in common. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

With a 1TB hard drive costing less than half of my cable bill, how much data do you think can be moved around *without* the internet being used to actually transfer the files?

It's not *just* the internet that made file sharing so easy, it's also the fact that media is now just bits of 1's and 0's.

Preventing piracy is a losing battle. Spend the money on marketing to the pirates instead.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Helpful advice: Don't let them get under your skin, and definitely don't sink to name calling or gratuitous profanity. (I save my profanity for special occasions!) Stick to the content of their posts and don't let them sidetrack you. It's probably a good idea to indicate when you are being sarcastic. Whenever possible, support your facts or assumptions with a link. It's a good idea to register here, too, if you plan on posting often, though obviously it's not required.

In fact, if all sides of this argument did this, that would be just swell.
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Hephaestus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
"This isn't promoting the progress, its promoting the police state.

I love your logic. By that standard, arresting drug dealers is bad because it doesn't promote progress for the dealers."

You really make me laugh. Talk about twisting the meaning of everything said.

My line "This isn't promoting the progress, its promoting the police state" is a play on the copyright clause.

Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, known as the Copyright Clause, it reads ... "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

oh and Congrats on your man getting into a position of power. I can not wait a year to see how badly he screws up. As I said before ... This is going to be fun to watch ...
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You're right, if this were 2005, that would be an excellent way to catch those darn pirate. However, welcome to 2011. When you have legitimate use of bittorrent by companies, like the oft-mentioned Blizzard, or the even-more-oft-mentioned Linux, or the people like Radiohead, Trent Reznor, or the people behind Pioneer One, or any of the numerous legitimate, authorized uses for P2P that are growing in number every day, then you begin to get a *lot* of false positives. False positives that will cost you money. Money that could be better spent playing the lottery than chasing after those darn pirates.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
A couple of problems with this:

1. - P2P != illegal file sharing
2. - IP address != person
3. - traffic patterns can be manipulated to look like other traffic patterns
4. - VPN /Proxy tunneling can convolute all the above
5. - deep packet inspection is a violation of privacy
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Deep packet inspection already occurs everyday with your activity.

Might want to keep up.
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coldbrew, 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Thanks for the advice. I know better, but just can't help myself from getting as melodramatic as some of these people. I even made it rhyme :)
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"freetard and sheeple are freebies on this site, matching up to IP Maximalist and industry shill. They are non-issues."
No, it's still name-calling. And I didn't say that "IP Maximalist" and "industry shill" aren't... but I'm calling you out on hypocrisy. If you want to defend with "but they're doing it too!!!" feel free. I'll give that the same credence as I give my 10 year old when she tries that excuse.

"Jackwagon is a non-word, made up by advertisers. The humor in using it apparently is lost on you."
Doesn't matter where it came from. "Fuck" came from (arguably) "fricken" which means to strike; or from "pluck yew" if you want to believe the English/French war origins... but if I call you a fuck, it's still name calling. You�re using it as a derogation� which is name calling.

"Mom's basement isn't name calling. It's is a statement of fact (unless proven otherwise)."
You're right... it's not name calling. But it is making personal attacks, which is no better. And don't try the "its fact until proven wrong". I could say that you're a child molester and claim it fact until proven wrong, but I'm above that.

"Entitled prick is the other persons words sent back."
So you are playing the "they're doing it too!!" card. Epic.
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Not a chance a bud, no way. I like my music hi-fi, anyway.

I see a lot of people here claiming to never rip off music. Interesting. Maybe Mike could start a section where people could post .jpgs of their purchases/receipts.

He could start with himself, as he claims to purchase all his music.

Let's see your iPod, Mike.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 1:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Deep packet inspection already occurs everyday with your activity.

And it's still a violation of privacy. Just because it occurs doesn't make it less so.
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 2:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Actively connecting to a freenet node would be a good indication of someone trading files (or receiving them).

No. That's part of the beauty of Freenet: not only can you not prove that I received a particular file, you can't even prove that I requested it. And not only can you not prove that I requested it, you can't even prove that I requested anything. Traffic flowing in an out of a node it not an indication that the node is itself trading files.

And even if you had a vague inkling that a certain node was trading files . . . so what? Trading files isn't in itself illegal. It would be much like knowing that sealed envelopes were being routed around the country, but you couldn't open the envelopes up to see what's inside, and you didn't know where the envelopes were coming from or where they were going to.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 2:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
He could start with himself, as he claims to purchase all his music.

I'll start, since you apparently won't: www.rdio.com

Unlimited music, offline caching, excellent selection (now). $10/month. I'm sold. Buying copies of music is *so* 2010.
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AR (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 2:16pm

Re: Re:
"United States copyright law is not going away"

Thats exactly what the prohibitionist said to the public back in the day when they got alcohol banned. They even wasted a lot of time, money, and lives (yes, people died) trying to enforce it.

Guess what. Many many people just ignored it and now that law is no longer on the books. Just because you can pay to have a law passed, doesnt mean you can force people to comply with it. Keep dreaming. Your jails are only so big.

"If you don't like it, move somewhere where there is no copyright law."

If you remember correctly this country was copyright free first. So, If copyright is what you want, YOU move to somewhere where you can freely oppress the people. I hear theres room in China for you.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 2:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So does bad italian food. Thankfully we don't shut down all the restaurants because one idiot overcooks the pasta.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 2:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
yeah, and your mother too! (snappy answer... )
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RadialSkid (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 2:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you're going to act like an insult-spewing baby, at least try to be clever enough to vary it up a little bit, instead of just repeating "jackwagon" like some braindead mantra.
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The Mighty Buzzard (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 2:57pm

Re: Re: One would think...
Yeah, sounds pretty dead on for a government position to me.
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Planespotter (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 2:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
lol... all this talking about swapping terrabyte hard drives reminds me of the days we used to swap cd's around the globe before p2p became mainstream. I give it 10-20 years and the "freetard" youth will be in their 30's and 40's and running the damn show, the old guard will be drinking tea on the porches of their corporate sponsored/paid for houses wondering how they failed.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 3:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
He could start with himself, as he claims to purchase all his music.

Indeed. I do. I either have the physical CDs (which, I still buy) or I buy them from one of a few sources: generally Amazon, CDBaby or (preferably) directly from a band/label etc. I've been buying a bunch of downloads lately from Whatevski Records. I always try to support the artists I like.

Not sure how one can prove this, but I have no music that is "unauthorized." I believe it's important to support content creators you like, which is why I focus so much attention on doing so and helping others set up ways in which their fans can support them.

In the meantime, I'm curious why you still don't answer my question about how come the bands who listen to me are doing better than ever before, while -- by your own admission -- the bands you work with are failing. Given all of that, how can you claim that I'm the one trying to rip off artists? I'm the one helping artists, and *by your own admission* having artists listen to you is a recipe for failure.

Who's really ripping off artists? The one helping them make more money or the one leading them down a path of admitted failure?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 3:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"IP Maximalist" could be a statement of fact: the person in question believes that the expansion of IP to the maximum is a good thing. It is also quite value-neutral: if you believe unrestricted IP is evil, you will believe being a "IP Maximalist" is evil, and if you believe unrestricted IP is good, you will believe being a "IP Maximalist" is good.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 3:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You forgot derived works. If every new expression must be completely new, not being allowed to recycle the good parts of the previous expressions, it becomes poorer.
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The eejit (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 3:32pm

Re: Re:
Unreasonable? Yes. Wrong? Only in the level of punishment.

And unicorns and babies' souls is what the *IAAs run on. Didn't you get the memo?
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 3:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No, people move to a different restaurant where that doesn't happen. And when the health inspector shuts one place down, people may spend their money on pizza or tacos instead.
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 4:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
There's more evidence of the entire system needing throwing out than there is of the system being helpful in promoting nothing more than draconian laws.
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 4:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Heph, calm down. Rub your ears. Remember these words:

"He's only a troll..."

Woosa. WOOOSA! Now let's get your heart rate down...

Do it with me. *Breathe in*

And out...

*Exhales*

There we go!

Now... Let's remember. The same RIAA/MPAA have gotten practically everything they've wanted. The only thing they didn't get was third party liability, which Verizon shot down. They can't compete with free and have done a large number of things such as bully normal citizens, spend $90 million on legislation, and negotiating three strikes laws with Biden.

But beware the spoiled child that gets everything they want. No matter how much collusion is occurring between corporate and government interest, it can't end well. Main thing that will happen is our government becomes so slanted that revolt will surely follow as people become fed up with the political maneuvering.

Shoudl be fun to see.

WOOOSA!
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Eugene (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 5:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You need to learn how to write clearly.
I think they cover that in grade school. Head's up.
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herodotus (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 5:56pm

Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
"Andrew, if you only share with your friends (like sneakernet always was) it takes a lifetime to get anything. Most people have very small circles of friends (typically less than 20) and that circle tends to overlap greatly. sneakernet isn't an issue because it is too slow, too patchy, and more than likely the exchanges don't happen. Certainly they don't happen at any speed that anyone worries about.

At the end of the day, torrent file trading works because it doesn't depend on social connections. When you slow things down to social connections only, real time, piracy drops to nearly nothing."

And yet that 'nearly nothing' was enough to create a moral panic back in the eighties, with the catch phrase: 'Home Taping is Killing Music'. Perhaps you've heard of it.

People who say that the industry and it's legal representatives will be satisfied if they 'only' have to deal with the sneakernet, which is exactly what 'Home Taping' was, are either ignorant of the relevant history, or they are lying.
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Anonymous, 25 Jan 2011 @ 6:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
LOL

I know you enjoy repeating this lie, but the bands I work with are doing far better than the ones you "help", none of whom, of course, anyone has heard of.

I said that were it not for piracy, and their entire catalogs being available for free on the net, they would have more money in their pockets.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jan 2011 @ 6:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"First off "constant extensions" just doesn't reflect the 5 changes made in 200 years. "

Yes it does.

The result is that nothing ever makes its way to the public domain anymore because every time something was supposed to, the law got extended.

"Second, there is no proof that progress isn't promoted."

It's hard to prove a negative, but even so there is virtually no evidence that IP promotes the progress and there is plenty of evidence that it only hinders progress. You can start here

http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.htm

Your beliefs that IP promotes the progress is no different than someone saying they believe that magic, undetectable, elephants move the earth around the sun. There is no proof that they don't, but your statement is unfalsifiable and hence it's probably false.

Not only that, but since IP robs me of my rights and it certainly does cause economic harm (monopolies are bad for the economy), so the burden is on you to prove its justification, not on me to prove that its lack is justified.
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TDR, 25 Jan 2011 @ 6:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Prove it. Now. Receipts, sales figures, every bit of data relevant to showing how well or not well they are doing. Otherwise you are the liar, Anonymous. As you always have been. That's just the language of corporate shills. And you have yet to show any specific harm done to any specific artist by filesharing. Until you do, nothing you say matters, and your entire position is invalid.

Do you even realize that files can be packed inside of other files? It happens all the time. That just because a file has a certain name doesn't mean the contents are what the name indicates? The only way to be sure is to open the file yourself, and to do that you have to download it. Which means you have to do the very thing you rail against.

Tell me, how do you plan to identify and stop billions of people from doing what they do? You really have no idea just how widespread this is, Anonymous, or how futile your flailing about is. I leave you with these words. Ponder them and realize that they apply to the current situation more than you realize.

"I see you. I can feel you now. You're afraid. You're afraid of us, afraid of change. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how this is going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone, and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. A world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you."
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Mr. Kite, 25 Jan 2011 @ 9:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
Heh, I remember my parents having reel to reel taping parties. "Tom's got Mamas and Papas, I've got Sgt. Peppers, Bruce has Bob Dylan..."

Reel to reel...those things were ungainly. External drives are so svelt.
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Jay (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 10:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Let's see...

Jamendo.com

Free platform for artists.

Dmusic.com

ANOTHER, older free platform for artists to connect with fans.

Last fm

Another FREE site.

It's funny... I've named at least three sites where I can stream or download songs for free and yet you can't name one band that's taking advantage of that. The odds of me finding a band that's great in the genre I select is far larger than some imaginary people you will make up to say "Hey, they're losing because of piracy"

I think I have a name for you now.

Luddite.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 25 Jan 2011 @ 11:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
I know you enjoy repeating this lie, but the bands I work with are doing far better than the ones you "help", none of whom, of course, anyone has heard of.

I rather doubt that, but okay.

I said that were it not for piracy, and their entire catalogs being available for free on the net, they would have more money in their pockets.

Doubtful, of course. There are plenty of artists who we've spoken about whose works are available widely for free online and those who have embraced new models and embraced their fans (rather than attacking them, as you do), are doing better than ever before.

But this also contradicts what you said in the past, where you explained how the bands you work with have had to find day jobs.

Funny how your story keeps changing.

Still, you never answer my question. Why do you claim I'm ripping people off when the artists who listen to me are doing better than ever, and the artists who work with you are failing?
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:07am

Re:
Exactly.
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:10am

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piracy and it's close relative counterfeiting

Close relative? I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that.
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:13am

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that is their problem, not mine

Actually it is cause you're the one looking like a fool when none of your predictions will come to pass. Apparently you're not sure yourself so you use AC.
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:16am

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That is far from constant.

Wrong, it went in one direction, constantly.
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:20am

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Tissue?

Why? Because you need to cover your face being too embarrassed for not using sarc tags. Ease up.
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:24am

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Masnick knows the gig is up.

I know your just a troll but hey, if you're actually that delutional you need to be shipped off to the looney bin.
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:30am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yeah and look how easily it got deflected by using encrypted traffic.
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:32am

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Well from your arguing we already knew you're not the sharpest tool in the shed (also not the most consistent, complaining about name calling but doing it yourself any chance you get) but to realize you actually bought into the Cisco & Co propaganda just takes the basket.
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techflaws.org (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 12:46am

Re: Re: Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
Right, that's why ppl already are sharing 2,5" discs with untouched BluRay rips. But fine, if telling this to yourself helps you to sleep at night.
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Not an electronic Rodent, 26 Jan 2011 @ 2:12am

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Please, please tell me that you do not work in IT nor have any decision making input in relation to an IT department anywhere. You stay over there with your "facts" that only you seem privvy to and I'll just carry on with my "fiction" over here on Reality Street thanks.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jan 2011 @ 5:56am

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I have read that game theory deal before, it is humorous for the most part. They have to stretch pretty far to try to prove the point.

The speed of innovation in the last 30 years has only increased, not decreased. In the times of copyright, patent, and even trademark, we have continued to progress at a faster and faster rate. While Masnick and his ilk will point at those who seek to abuse the system, the reality is that the vast majority of patents and copyrights don't do great harm, and in the case of patents, have allowed hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars to be invested in research and development.

On the other side, countries like India, with very poor patent and copyright laws find themselves lagging badly, only able to snag some of the market for research by being the low cost provider. Much of their Pharma business is based on knocking of medicines that are patent in other places but not in India. Most of their innovative people in this field leave the country and head for places like the US, where their developments can be turned into riches, and fund their future work.

The "haves" and the "have nots" can be easily weeded out by their level of IP compliance. China is a good example, because without IP protections, they appear to be growing quickly. But in reality, they are doing the same thing as China, offering a low cost labor force, and turning the profits from that into research and development. President Hu discussed the need for stronger IP laws in China, and that comes as China finally reached the same point Japan did in the 60s and 70s, where they were finally producing work worthy of protection. Their growth rate without IP protection has been phenominal, but only because someone else was providing the IP work. They understand they cannot lead if they cannot be masters of their own products.

There is always the problem that people can see the short term advantages of suddenly removing patents and copyright. They can get a bunch of stuff cheaper now. But good public policy isn't made on short term gains, it is made in long term strategic moves that make you stronger, even if it hurts you a little today.

One example of why all of this is silly is the "patent thicket" idea on smart phones. Masnick loves to post his needlessly complex diagram of who is suing who and all that comes with it. The reality is that even with all of these apparent blocks, we keep getting newer, better, and more feature laden smart phones, at a pace that is mind spinning. My 1.5 year old HTC android phone is incredibly out of date in many ways, because progress in the field has been incredible. That is in the face of this so called thicket that is suppose to be stopping everything. Yet progress happens at a pace that most of us cannot keep up with.

For me, it's all part of the "Masnick Effect", where conclusions are drawn not based on the full reality and all of the facts, but with only the facts that support your desired conclusion. The thicket looks horrible and scary as presented, and yet the reality is that the smart phone business is not only surviving, but thriving and packed full of real innovation and real developments, not just changing the color of the case or redoing the logos, actual innovation that leads to a truly better product.

Reality trumps opinion every time.
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Not an electronic Rodent, 26 Jan 2011 @ 6:52am

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Your argument there boils down to approximately the same as the way the British Empire conquered the world largely through the use of flags.

You have it backwards - developing nations struggle because america and other developed nations got there first and slammed the door in everyone else's face declaring the games closed. Intellectual property laws are one of the tools used to do this. It costs significant money to compete in an IP-laden marketplace, which poorer countries simply do not have because of the restrictions put in their way. Blaming it all on IP laws would of course be overly simplistic, but it is a significant factor.

As for China, you better brush up on your Mandarin because it looks to me like they've jumped in with both feet and learned to play to win and they already own a significant part of the american economy (as well as many others). Were I you I would also look up the phrase "hoist by your own petard" because that outcome is far more likely than your utopian vision.

I'm also impressed by the way you manage to convince yourself that China's growth without paying any attention to IP laws in some way means that IP laws are good. Do you think that, after growing hugely since the mid 80's and having been the fastest growing enconomy on the planet for what 15-20 years without bothering with IP laws, their sudden foray into the area indicates they suddenly want to become good corporate citizens? The only difference between China and the "IP poor" nations you describe is that China is big enough to have totally ignored the US's ranting and raving about copyright and patents until they were ready toplay. Most other countries the US can bully into submission.

Reality trumps opinion? Excellent, go find some and present it. You know? Facts, data, evidence? Otherwise my "opinion" is just as valid as yours and at least has some connection to observation and doesn't seek to distort or put words in other people's mouths.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 7:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re: How Sneakernet Works
The name of the game doesn't matter. You point out that it is six and not seven only makes my point stronger though.
The absolute biggest thing working against you, is that only you and a very very small group of people see this as illegal activity. If over half the US is breaking the law by sharing files, then it is the law that is wrong, not the people.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jan 2011 @ 8:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
oh look, it's creepy internet psycho guy...
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 8:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
You just don't understand, Mike:

The bands he helps are both making money hand over fist due to his help and on the verge of complete bankruptcy due to piracy, depending on which version of his story most supports his current argument.
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Anonymous, 26 Jan 2011 @ 8:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Oh you're lying and twisting things around again, aren't you Mike?

Tell us, why are you such a supporter of piracy?

Seems like your advertisers and those you present to should know about this. We'll have to work on that next.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jan 2011 @ 8:37am

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"The speed of innovation in the last 30 years has only increased, not decreased."

Most of it is occurring in other countries (and being copied in/transferred to the U.S.), countries that aren't as big on IP as the U.S.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jan 2011 @ 8:42am

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(not to mention, the fields where innovation has occurred the most in the U.S. in more recent years has been fields where IP was strongly ignored, like tech. Though now patent trolls are starting to jump in on the tech bandwagon and now more tech is developed elsewhere. But if you look at pharma, the pharma industry in the U.S. is one of the least, if not the least, innovative and patents are very deeply ingrained in the U.S. pharma industry. Most medical advancements are now occurring in other countries that aren't so strict on patents, like Japan).
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jan 2011 @ 9:04am

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"There is always the problem that people can see the short term advantages of suddenly removing patents and copyright."

Both short term and long term. The evidence substantially shows that patents only hinder innovation and that without them much more short term and long term innovation will occur.

"In the times of copyright, patent, and even trademark, we have continued to progress at a faster and faster rate."

Not so much. It's just that we still benefit from previous advancements that were made before IP was so prominent, it's not like this advancements disappear. On top of that, we also benefit from newer advancements, no one said that IP completely stops innovation, just that it slows it down. Also, better communication helps to facilitate advancement, which is a reason there was a spike in advancement after the printing press (it makes it easier to build on old advancements because more people have access to those old advancements instead of having to go through the trouble of re - inventing the same thing over. Instead, they can focus their efforts on newer advancements. More people having access to more information makes it easier for people to learn find material relevant to what they want to do and to build on it). Also, as stated above, more of our advancement is being developed in countries that aren't so strict on patents, whereas much less is now being developed in the IP maximist U.S. Then those advancements get transferred to the U.S. so we benefit from it.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jan 2011 @ 9:06am

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"But good public policy isn't made on short term gains, it is made in long term strategic moves that make you stronger, even if it hurts you a little today. "

I agree, hence we should get rid of patents. It helps us a lot today and tomorrow, but it hurts the lazy rich people (like patent trolls) that want to make money money without conducting any R&D, contributing anything of value to society, or doing any work. Who cares about them.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jan 2011 @ 9:08am

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"we keep getting newer, better, and more feature laden smart phones, at a pace that is mind spinning."

Yes, but where are these phones being developed. Let me give you a hint, it's not the U.S.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jan 2011 @ 9:12am

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(and why is it not the U.S.? Partly because we're too busy suing each other over ridiculous patents on very obvious ideas. Hence, all our money goes to the uninnovative lawyers and much less of it goes towards actual innovation).
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Rose M. Welch (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 10:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

A 'good indication' isn't enough for a conviction, or even a charge. If it were, all of the street corner drug dealers and sex workers would be behind bars.
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Rose M. Welch (profile), 26 Jan 2011 @ 10:20am

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Apparently, I screwed up my code. /sadface Here is my post, again.

As for your freenet argument,remember: The data goes somewhere. Actively connecting to a freenet node would be a good indication of someone trading files (or receiving them).

A 'good indication' isn't enough for a conviction, or even a charge. If it were, all of the street corner drug dealers and sex workers would be behind bars.
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TDR, 26 Jan 2011 @ 10:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Again, you fail to provide any evidence for you what you say Mike said. Do so or you're a liar, which we know you already are anyway. Your continual evasiveness and unwillingness to back up anything you say with actual evidence only proves that you lie. As I said before, that's the language of lawyers and corporate shills, so it's not surprising. And apparently you didn't bother to take in the quote I left you or anything else I said.

Again, answer me this: how do you plan to stop billions of people from doing what they're doing? I want an answer. Now. Or give a complete retraction of everything you have ever said on this site.
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Not an electronic Rodent, 27 Jan 2011 @ 2:44am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
The bands he helps are both making money hand over fist due to his help and on the verge of complete bankruptcy due to piracy
But presumably at the point at which he states which, he has no idea how fast the bands are going and what direction?[/quantum joke]
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Gabriel Tane (profile), 27 Jan 2011 @ 5:30am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
+1 Heisenberg. Applause my good man, applause.
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Eugene (profile), 28 Jan 2011 @ 11:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ACs sound very manic today...
Maybe we should put up some "Trolls Wanted" ads on Craigslist, and start holding interviews.
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