Forget Hot Coffee, Now Disney Is Sued For Severe Burns From Nacho Cheese
from the keep-it-cool,-yo dept
Perhaps no legal liability lawsuit brings out passionate arguments (on all sides) like the infamous McDonald's "hot coffee" lawsuit, in which McDonald's was sued and lost for providing a woman with coffee that was too hot (on appeal the case was eventually settled). Some feel that the case is the quintessential example of bogus lawsuits, while others suggest that the case actually had merits. Of course, given its high profile nature, there have been attempts here or there to replicate it in some form or another, and up next, we've apparently got a lawsuit against Disney for serving nacho cheese at Disney World that was too darn hot.A San Diego couple, Michael and Maria Harris claim that their 4-year-old son Isaiah had his face burned from "scalding hot" nacho cheese served to them at Disney World. They appear to be claiming that Disney was negligent in making "no effort" to keep the nacho cheese at a reasonable temperature, and are claiming "permanent scarring, pain and suffering" to Isaiah from the burns, while the parents have suffered "emotional distress." Perhaps there's more to the case than is in the article linked above, but shouldn't parents be at least somewhat responsible for keeping things that are scalding hot from their children's faces?
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Filed Under: coffee, disney world, hot foods, nacho cheese
Companies: disney, mcdonald's
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Picture worth 1000 words...
Looks like the parents put the kid in an unsteady chair, he started to fall and grabbed a food tray with the cheese on it to steady himself. The cheese fell and hit his face. He was treated at a local hospital and released.
My question is... why did the parent's have a toddler in an unsteady chair to begin with? Babies, toddlers and small children are not known for their dexterity or ability to sit still. It's likely the cheese was on the hot side, but the parents are also at fault for putting the child in an unsteady chair to begin with. To be honest, I believe it's the parents actions that precipitated the event and they are the ones that should deal with the repercussions.
/my oldest son had an accident in a store at age 4
//split lip requiring 8 stitches
///did not sue, didn't even consider it
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Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
If the caf�'s chair was at fault then I don't think that'll help Disney much. The article isn't clear whether the parent's realised the chair was unsteady before the accident. Obviously, they should have asked for another chair if they knew that one was unstable, but then you would hope the caf� considers itself responsible for making sure its chairs are safe.
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Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
It's reasonable to assume that a chair will hold the weight of a child, that nachos will not burn you, that toasters will not explode while toasting, and so on.
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Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
Obviously you've never had Nachos. From my experience its reasonable to assume that fresh Nachos will burn you if you're not careful, after all it is melted cheese. The unsteady chair may open Disney to some liability, but the parents should have known better than put the Nachos anywhere the kid could reach them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
At home, however, I've nearly burned the tongue out of my mouth with microwaved, broiled or baked cheese. I recall the veritable scalding chinstrap of mozzarella here and there.
Kids are little time bombs of danger, and no one can plan for every single contingency.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
If this case is anything like the hot coffee one then the issue is not that the cheese was hot, but that it was excessively hot. In the hot coffee case is was admitted by McDonalds that the drink they had served was too hot to be drank safely, as they made the assumption that people would not consume it until it had cooled down. Yes, people expect food and drink to be hot, but it seems a reasonable expectation that some effort be made to minimise the risk of it severely disfiguring you if an accident happens.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
Obviously, you have no idea what 'burned' means. Hot things are hot, and sometimes touching them hurts but that doesn't make them 'burning'.
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Coffee is supposed to be hot. It is your responsibility to make sure it is cool enough for your consumption. Here is your 212 degrees coffee in a metal mug.
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Neither. Hint: it's water's boiling point.
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How hard is that?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
How are you supposed to determine the temperature of the cheese or coffee without exposing yourself to a burn?
Regardless, most cities have codes that specify acceptable temperatures. If the nachos exceeded those temperatures (as the hot coffee did in that infamous lawsuit), then they are liable.
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An important distinction missed.
It is a number of things including cheese that can remain fluid at room temperature. In it's industrialized fast food form, it probably bears little resemblance to real cheese sauce.
Thus other people's experiences with "tepid" nachos.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
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It kills me how little people who regularly eat at restaurants know about their local laws regarding restaurants.
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Was the child too fat for the chair?
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Unless we are talking about cream cheese now.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
Hot =/= Burning
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Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
This is not an example of bad proprietorship by Disney but of Darwinism at work in the human species. The parents were obviously too dirt stupid to be procreating and thus consequences.
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Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
The assumption here is the amount of stability. For an adult (say, a manager of a cafe?), a chair with one leg 1/2" shorter than the others is not wobbly. For a child of 4 that same chair would be, given their still developing muscles and lower threshold of control.
Also, as David pointed out, melted cheese also tends to be somewhat sticky and needs to be heated to greater than 135 degrees for food safety reasons. It could have taken some time for the parents to wipe off the cheese after picking the child up. We've only seen the parents side of the story, so there's also no indication if the wait staff brought out the food and said "careful, the food is hot".
I'm still of the opinion that this is an accident and the parents need to stop trying to collect some cash to ease their guilt over the incident. Accidents happen. Trying to make others pay for them doesn't help you learn to want to prevent them.
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Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
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Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
You seem to have gone from 'unstable' to 'wobbly'. If the chair wasn't unstable enough for the manager to notice then why did you expect the parents to notice?
"Also, as David pointed out, melted cheese also tends to be somewhat sticky and needs to be heated to greater than 135 degrees for food safety reasons."
The article says the food temperature may have been as high as 160 degrees.
'We've only seen the parents side of the story, so there's also no indication if the wait staff brought out the food and said "careful, the food is hot".'
We've only heard their side of the story, yet you're dismissing it and passing judgement. I don't think anyone is suggesting that everything they've said is true and blaming Disney based on that. The article also implies that the staff did not warn them that the food was hot.
"I'm still of the opinion that this is an accident and the parents need to stop trying to collect some cash to ease their guilt over the incident. Accidents happen. Trying to make others pay for them doesn't help you learn to want to prevent them."
How do you know their motivations? Why are you asserting an opinion while decrying the fact that we only have one side of the story? The money may help pay for the child's medical bills. The case may cause Disney to make changes that prevent a similar incident from happening.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
What is wrong with you, do people alert others that ice cream is cold and could cause burns and headache? Do people warn others that flaming food that could burn you if an accident happens?
I suppose people need to sign non-responsibility agreements when they ask for hot food or drinks now.
Do restaurants will need insurance to deal with such things now too?
I feel sorry that accidents happen and can relate, but to go there and start blaming others for silly things that could cause and accident and could have been avoided simply by paying attention is ridiculous to say the least.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
What's wrong with you? Couldn't you respond to something I actually said?
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Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
Every chair should be electronic tagged, with reports of its unsteadiness reported? there should be a button to report it? should a chair become unstable because of some feature of the floor be reported?
It is in the interest of parents everywhere that those checks be done by them not by a third party ever.
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Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
By replacing chairs that have been reported as unstable, for example. My experience with health and safety is not that people don't notice these things but that people don't report them or no action is taken.
"Every chair should be electronic tagged, with reports of its unsteadiness reported? there should be a button to report it? should a chair become unstable because of some feature of the floor be reported?"
Well, you were in fairy land until the last bit anyway. If someone notices that the floor is unstable and likely to cause an accident then fuck yes should they report it.
"It is in the interest of parents everywhere that those checks be done by them not by a third party ever."
Is there a reason that other people shouldn't be responsible just because parents should be? I guess they should taste test all the food for poison while they're at it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
How many times did you go to a restaurant with chairs falling apart?
I could happen, but really I never saw any one even in poor regions.
And what qualifies as unstable and likely to cause an accident?
A mild inclination? a missing tile? rotten floor? uneven flooring like rock tiles.
So a restaurant with a rock floor should be sued?
If your house have unstable flooring and your child gets hurt does it mean the state can take your child to child protection?
I think you lost it, you are claiming to others to do more then you probably would do in your own house to keep yourself and others secure.
Also I remember will you ask them to regulate the space between tables so a chair doesn't get knocked off by accident?
I can agree with some things some times but I find that you go all the way to the extreme in some occasions.
If they can't why they ask others to do it?
That is the kind of attitude that let America rot, not doing it, not being able to do it and asking others to do it for us.
If someone its not able to ascertain the soundness of a child's chair they are not fit to be parents then, they should give up their child to the system.
God should ever a dog from a blind person knock some child from a chair the owner of the dog should be put in jail.
That is how over the top I see your comments.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
Congratulations on never being in a dive with a bad chair. I commend you for that. However, it does happen. As for uneven flooring, common sense would dictate that anything that causes difficult walking for a normal, healthy person would be reported.
I agree that parents should be responsible for their children, and the safety and welfare thereof, yet businesses still need to be responsible for the safe environment they are required to maintain. There's no reason to keep cheese sauce scalding hot. Even the stuff you make at home doesn't congeal until it's well below a 'safe' temperature.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
How is that relevant? For all it matters, I may never have been in a restaurant.
"And what qualifies as unstable and likely to cause an accident?"
Counting the number of legs would be a start. Again you fail to make a point.
"If your house have unstable flooring and your child gets hurt does it mean the state can take your child to child protection?"
Please look up the word relevance.
"I can agree with some things some times but I find that you go all the way to the extreme in some occasions."
Perhaps you could be specific. It seems that you're the one offering up all the extreme examples in order to make my position seem absurd. A valid tactic, if you apply it properly.
"If they can't why they ask others to do it?"
Uh, I wasn't suggesting that anyone taste test the food for poison. That's one of those extreme examples to point out absurdity I was talking about.
"If someone its not able to ascertain the soundness of a child's chair they are not fit to be parents then, they should give up their child to the system."
Hmm, this should be sarcasm if you're being consistent, but it doesn't appear to be.
"God should ever a dog from a blind person knock some child from a chair the owner of the dog should be put in jail."
Now make a point to go with that example.
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Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
"According to CBS affiliate WKMG, attorney Sean Cahill said Isaiah somehow spilled the nachos on himself when trying to eat dinner during a visit to the Magic Kingdom's Tomorrowland on March 17, 2010."
What you have here is the result of the mindset that it is always someone or something's fault when bad things happen.
It is a slippery slope we are reaching the bottom of.
While there are SOME people who are powerless against drugs/alcohol, how often do we just hear its not my fault it is the fault of the dealer, bar, etc. It is not my fault I crashed my car, I am powerless against alcohol, and the bar I went to should not have served me. Well you went to the place that is completely focused on what your powerless against, why should we feel any sympathy? You got behind the wheel of the car and drove while other people knew they would be drunk and made other arrangements. But they stand there teary eyed and shift the blame.
I just left my kid home alone for a moment, it is the landlords fault the house burned. We are to ignore you taking off to the bar for way more than a moment leaving your kids alone, and only blame the landlord.
I did not know my son was prostituting himself online, why yes I am trained to teach others how to spot these signs in their kids but I never saw it I was busy training others, we need better laws and enforcement.
(yes both of those are real cases)
At what point do we stop expecting the external things to do the jobs of parents?
You put your child into a shaky chair.
You left something scalding within your childs reach, rather than spend 30 seconds to see how hot it was and keep it out of reach until it was "safe".
While I feel badly for this child being burned in this way, this was an accident. I often think parents who always blame others for misfortunes need to have CPS monitoring them. It is obvious that they lack the basic skills required to keep their kids safe. Being able to blame someone with deep pockets and get paid is so much better than being responsible.
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Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
Cases like the hot coffee one about McDonalds at first sniff seemed like a whole lot of "well just another whiner that tie her own shoes" but it did show a laundry list of gross negligence and complaints that McDonalds received and ignored which is why the case got any traction.
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Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
The coffee was hot and it burned the lady because of her own neglicgence, it happens.
I burned my calf on a motorcycle exhaust once, it melted my skin, ten years latter I have no marks to remind me of the incident.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
They had several people get burned by their cups giving way.
They had settled previous cases, and originally the little old lady was only looking for the medical bills. Not windfall of profits. The company refused any reasonable talks and instead opted to fight it out. And a Jury while they might have considered her partially at fault, grew outraged at the considerable evidence that McD had lots of these complaints and still continued business as usual.
While I do not agree the lady deserved multiple millions for an accident, I do not think the fault was all hers. McD had been made aware on multiple occasions prior to her accident of the potential dangers and continued the practice.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
http://tinyurl.com/5tye8n8
McDonalds served coffee between 180-190 degrees. Coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees.
Between 1982-92, McDonalds had over 700 complaints by people burned by its coffee.
The lady who sued, suffered 3rd degree burns over 6% of her body and lesser burns over sixteen percent. She was hospitalized for eight days and underwent skin grafts. She sought to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her actual and anticipated expenses. Her past medical expenses were $10,500; her anticipated future medical expenses were approximately $2,500; and her loss of income was approximately $5,000 for a total of approximately $18,000. McDonalds offered only $800.
She WAS NOT driving the car. The car was not in motion when the accident occurred.
McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185 degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above, and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat.
The company admitted its customers were unaware that they could suffer thirddegree burns from the coffee
Post-verdict investigation found that the temperature of coffee at the local Albuquerque McDonalds had dropped to 158 degrees fahrenheit.
The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages. This amount was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found Liebeck 20 percent at fault in the spill. The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages, which equals about two days of McDonalds' coffee sales. The trial court subsequently reduced the punitive award to $480,000 even though the judge called McDonalds' conduct reckless, callous and willful.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Picture worth 1000 words...
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It seems with any story lacking details people will make assumptions and judgements that fill in the gaps. I'm guilty of it, but I try to catch myself when I can.
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Disney sued for providing unsteady chairs.
film at eleven
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Picture worth 1000 words - UH, all the cheese fell within a couple inches right near his lip?
"Quick Maa, knock him over so we can say it was their fault."
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I can't even find the video (probably due to too much script/domain blocking). If it's the one I found via Google then all it shows is more pictures of the boy's burns.
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but shouldn't parents be at least somewhat responsible...
No, that's the governments job.
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Now if only your picture didn't look like Ronnie Riley....
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You don't know who he is? You lucky son of a bitch....
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Hey, is there an asshat blocker, like the script we have for Darryl?
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Criminal Charges
Not a defense of Disney per se as much as - enough is enough.
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The docs estimate at least 71 degrees celcius..
71 degrees is not particularly hot. Well below the melting point for most real cheese.. Hopefully this won't mean real melted cheese gets outlawed.
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Steaks are cooked to lower temps, but are considered potentially unsafe at temps below 135 (Medium).
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So I tried to google it, and apparently it failed me miserably. So sue me! :) Still can't find a reasonable estimate for a melting point for Cheddar.
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> melting point for most real cheese.
I'm pretty sure that you've mixed up Celsius and Fahrenheit. Cheese will melt on a hot day, which is about 40 deg C (104 deg F).
For Americans, 100 deg C is the boiling point of water (212 deg F), so 71 deg C (160 deg F) is pretty dang hot.
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Yeah, 40 is a really hot day and 100 is boiling for water, and 71 is a bit lower than the usual temp they server coffee and tea at (which I find not hot enough).
Hot melted cheese is really nasty stuff to get on you though.
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It's frigging hot. Too hot without reason.
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http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/DianaGendler.shtml
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More Coffee Nonsense
Various attempts at cutting corners is what turns coffee into nasty crap that anyone outside the US would turn their nose up at.
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Re: More Coffee Nonsense
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Don't forget to convert
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Food Safety...
The problem with cheese is it is thick, and sticks to things (in case you weren't sure :) ), which would cause the temperature to intensify when exposed to the skin.
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Re: Food Safety...
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Re: Food Safety...
Like napalm, no? The Giant Rat of Orlando's nefarious plot exposed...
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Re: Food Safety...
Later, Seeker
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Re: Food Safety...
Later, Seeker
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To take responsibility for ourselves and our actions
Think about that for a moment. If you fall down and break your arm in an icy parking lot in the winter, do you really want to admit to yourself and others that maybe, just maybe, you should have skipped going to the store? Or maybe found a clear parking space and path to the store? Obviously you can't control the weather but surely the mall can! Why didn't they put in for sunshine and warm temperatures?
No, you couldn't drag me back to that time with a 100 horses or horseless carriages.
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Come on People
"but shouldn't parents be at least somewhat responsible for keeping things that are scalding hot from their children's faces?" ... Yes, if they have reason to believe it is scalding hot. When was the last time anyone here checked the temperature of the nacho cheese they were served at a concession stand? In my experience, the cheese is too cold if anything. So unless the parents were explicitly warned that the temperature of the cheese was extremely hot then I think they are justified.
Now I'm of course assuming that the burn the child received really was serious and not just a minor burn that the parents are freaking out over. The pictures seem to suggest that, but you never can be sure. Also the judgement or settlement should be reasonable ... no million dollar awards here please.
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Re: Come on People
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I wholeheartedly agree. When I was raising my kids I just naturally assumed it was my job to keep them safe and never relied on someone else to do it.
It may take a village to raise kids, but it is still the sole responsibility of parents to protect kids from all the village idiots out there.
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That coffee was obscenely hot
Their coffee was insanely hot, and I get very warm under the collar when people make light of that lawsuit over a seriously injured elderly woman with third degree who spent eight days in the hospital.
There aren't two sides to that story. There's the truth, and then there's the myth the pro-corporate right has manufactured and which Rush Limbaugh and friends have repeated too many times to count.
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Re: That coffee was obscenely hot
I used to work at an arcade where we had a nacho cheese dispenser; the nacho cheese is stored refrigerated, and looks like thick, orange crisco - until you put it into a chamber of near-boiling water, which heats the cheese to a pretty constant temperature. I'm not sure if 165F is just Disney's temp or what, because I remember my boss joking that the water was hot enough to make coffee if I ever got sleepy - I suppose that could've just been hyperbole.
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Re: That coffee was obscenely hot
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If Disney is serving cheese dip that's 170F, it SHOULD be served with a warning about the temperature.
I'm guessing it's not.
So most people dip a chip, attempt to eat it and go "damn that's hot, give it a minute to cool down."
If it unexpectedly fell all over your face, you wouldn't really have that chance!
And most amusement parks have child-ready seats at their restaurants. If it was a Disney-provided seat and it wasn't safe, that also doesn't help them...
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Make people sign a risk agreement every time they ask for something hot or potentially dangerous or don't make those foods available anymore anywhere, or just keep on living and acknowledge that living is a risk proposition and that it is reasonable to expect hot food to be hot and accidents happen.
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For example, if Disney is determined to have been 60% negligent, and the parents the remainder, then the award would be reduced by 40%.
For those inclined to talk about cheese v. temperature, I have to wonder when was the last time they bit into a freshly baked pizza and did not have the cheese burn the top of their palate?
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Shit, I don't even stop EATING said pizza, nevermind suing over it....
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Everytime I eat pizza. I never learn! Is there some possibility the pizza place is at fault and I could be rich? I didn't see any warnings on the box about it being hot ;)
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Legal Analysis
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regardless of the circumstances, this in no way rises to the level of a lawsuit...had the kid died or been permanently maimed, then maybe but a minor burn and a wobbly chair, for fucks sake...
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Yeah it sucks the kid got burnt on the food. The parents should have still made sure it was cool before he started to rip into it.
Now the price of admission is going to go up for everyone else cause these lazy parents are going to get a multi-million dollar settlement.
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Gas stove
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How it should be
That is something worth suing over (the manager gave us $100 because thats how much we said we had spent on our now ruined trip.
This however, isnt. Life has its nuances that anyone with half a brain needs to know, like ice is slippery, rocks are sharp, etc. These are things everyone knows.
That hot foods are hot, is one of those things. If I am ordering a meal, I am smart enough to know that a salad is cold and nachos are hot.
The parents made the decision to order a hot meal, nachos. It is unclear whether they ordered the nachos for everyone or just for their son.
The son was burned when consuming the nachos. Theres no way a tray fell on him, it wouldnt be focused right above his lip like that. This being said, the parents have already lied, and everything else must be scrutinized.
There are far too many reasons that things like this shouldnt happen, and its sad to see the world headed this way.
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These are great times for parents ;)
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