Another Attempt To Make TSA Searches Open To Sex Offender Charges
from the touching-junk dept
Back when the TSA's new search procedures went into effect last year, there were a few efforts to subject TSA agents involved in screenings or patdowns to claims of sex offense or sexual assault laws. While I'm not convinced that this truly makes sense, I do know that I've now had conversations with a few different people who have had extremely emotional reactions to having to go through the patdowns, where they truly felt abused afterwards. Some of the accounts are downright frightening, of people who clearly were seriously impacted by the experience.harbingerofdoom alerts us to the news of a proposed law in New Hampshire that would make the TSA search a sexual assault, where penalties would mark those convicted as Tier III sex offenders. The bill specifically "makes the touching or viewing with a technological device of a person's breasts or genitals by a government security agent without probable cause a sexual assault."
I have to admit that I'm a bit torn about this. As mentioned, I know some people who certainly have felt sexually abused by the searches/patdowns. And I have no doubt that emotional abuse is real and horrifying. I also have serious questions about the usefulness or appropriateness of these searches, and think we'd certainly be best without them. But labeling a TSA agent a sex offender for doing what the TSA requires seems like a pretty extreme response. I recognize the goal here probably isn't to get TSA agents branded sex offenders, but to create a situation that leads to a policy change. But the whole "sex offender" list concept has been abused over the years in dangerous ways, labeling all sorts of people "sex offenders" and branding them for life, even if their "crime" wasn't what one would normally consider a traditional "sex" offense. I'm not convinced that expanding that list, even if to drive a policy change, is a good idea.
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Filed Under: new hampshire, patdowns, sex offenders, sexual assault, tsa
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I'm good with it
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Re: I'm good with it
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Re: Re: I'm good with it
I've always wondered how "temporary insanity" works, because I think most people go through that quite a few times each day. :D
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Re: I'm good with it
I'm possibly facing employment by the TSA after over two years of unemployment. Should I be willing to give up what will probably be my only chance at a livable income because somebody wants to put me on a sex offender registry for doing my job?
And for the record, I *don't* agree with TSA procedures in this regard, but living in the poorest part of the country I don't have a lot of options, either. I couldn't even get a job at Taco Bell, despite positive work references and no criminal record.
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Re: Re: I'm good with it
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Re: Re: Re: I'm good with it
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Re: Re: I'm good with it
I knew people who worked in the "boiler rooms". They made phone calls and bullied scared old people into sending them their life's savings. Of course they offered me a job with them. Of course they told me it would be easy and I would make a lot of money.
I did not take it. No matter how broke or hungry I was I would never steal a little old ladies life savings.
Trust me when I tell you that I would also never take a job that supported an unconstitutional police state.
I feel for you, but hunger should never be used to make people do morally wrong things.
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They Don't Know What To Do
Instead, their elected officials should put their foot down and change things at the federal level. But then they look soft on terrorism and get thrown in jail for aiding the enemy.
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I am all for this law...
Someone here posted a while back that even parents cannot legally grant someone authority to touch their child unless they are a Dr performing a legitimate exam. Therefore TSA agents may already be breaking the law when it comes to children. There is no way I would let my child be subjected to a groping or the backscatter scanners.
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Job posting...
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Re: Job posting...
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Re: Re: Job posting...
Just saying.
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Re: Re: Re: Job posting...
Stereotypes exist because there are assumptions made of of ignorance and there are a lot of ignorant people out there.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Job posting...
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TSA and Searches
Although I can understand the shaming effect.
Some child abusers conspire and operate in groups. Which I think is what happened to the Catholic church.
Some got in and then made it easy for others to follow. Eventually they are hiding in all ranks and you can't tell who's just soft and who has a hidden agenda.
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Re: TSA and Searches
Fuck you, Jackie. No one is blaming the Catholic church for _having_ pedophiles in their ranks, but for _not doing anything_ when they discovered it, and worse, actively covering it up.
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Re: Re: Job posting...
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Re: Re: Re: Job posting...
What better way to demolish their sickening efforts?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Job posting...
For something like molesting kids, I would set a pretty low bar. Like more than 2 or 3 would be a lot. Just IMO.
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Re: Re: Job posting...
If your faith is so weak that you can't handle criticism, you might want to consider moving.
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Re: Re: Job posting...
The Catholic church might have some great and wonderful priests in it. I am sure the KKK does some great charity work too, but you will not catch me defending them
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Am I right?
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Wouldn't apply outside of NH
This law, if enacted, would only make it a crime if the action was committed _inside_ of New Hampshire's borders.
I don't think anyone is trying to make it against NH state law to do something _outside_ of NH.
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Re: Wouldn't apply outside of NH
> against NH state law to do something _outside_
> of NH.
And more importantly, even if such a law were to pass, it would be completely unenforceable.
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Re: Re: Wouldn't apply outside of NH
Really?
Perhaps you mean: would lose on appeal after much sound and fury.
Any police force can pretty much enforce whatever law it wants to and is unstoppable unless some armed force (private citizens or some other police force) wants to get into an armed conflict with them.
Just which police force do you think would draw their guns to prevent NH State Troopers from putting a TSA agent in handcuffs? It does not have to even be at the airport, these agents live in NH, they can't stay at the airport 24/7...
No... if this law gets passed, and NH has the political will for a test trial, you better believe it will get enforced.
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Exactly.
The initial TSA response and the resistance required to end it, are both extreme.
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Extreme because it has to be
While I don't want any TSA agents charged under this law I doubt any will be.
Go New Hampshire!
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I extremely dislike the idea of a pat down that in any other country would be considered sexual assault. This is a government totally out of control. The idea that any citizen is subject to a patdown anywhere in the US at anytime is where this is going.
Your next encounter with TSA is liable to be when you stop at a wayside park to take a wizz. For the now, it's only the airports, with an occasional step outside, such as the Savanna train station, the Superbowl, and the occasional wayside park. Coming to a city near you will be next followed by the sidewalk where you live.
I really, really, hate the idea of a "papers please" mentality that is going on behind this process. Did someone sneak in and change the the entry sign into the US to read Germany 1941?
What happened to having a little bit of spine in this country?
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Insane!
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Re: Insane!
What, comments on an article, or a tiny state passing tiny laws that won't stop a damn thing?
I can't stress this enough: write or call your Congressman AND the White House. No one cares who you voted for; this mess started under the previous administration but the current one hasn't made it any better AND WE ARE NOT SAFER.
Write or call(emails get ignored generally) and let the ones you pay know that this is unacceptable.
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This is what happens
I really don't think it makes sense, but since they don't have any other options, they are doing what little they can. Sadly, I suspect it will have exactly the same impact as anything else has had on the TSA - none.
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I don't know if it is necessarily extreme. I bet you would label any number of German's as murderers for just doing what their government told them to in the early 40's.
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Re:
It's a common mistake to assume that the government is always right.
Immoral or criminal actions are no less immoral or criminal because your government told you to perform them.
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Only in the USA
Makes sense.
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What this is is....
Rather than sue the states in federal court to get these laws overturned like REAL MEN would do, look for HisObamaWeasel to issue Executive orders that Federalize the territory that the TSA works in, effectively subtracting that land from the State's sovereignty and legal jurisdiction.
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Re: What this is is....
While I would love to see Obama disband the DHS, as long as the GOP holds a majority in Congress, I don't see how he can.
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Re: Re: What this is is....
> as long as the GOP holds a majority in Congress,
> I don't see how he can.
The Democrats held the majority of *both* houses of Congress for the first two years of Obama's presidency? Why didn't he do it then?
You can't blame it on Republican opposition. Even when there was none, he didn't do a damn thing about it.
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Re: What this is is....
As opposed to what, Pinocchio? Please explain what you're trying to imply here.
"look for HisObamaWeasel to issue Executive orders that Federalize the territory that the TSA works in, effectively subtracting that land from the State's sovereignty and legal jurisdiction."
What do you base that prediction on? I'm not fond of Obama either, but what you're saying doesn't make sense. Even on healthcare, Obama was unwilling to rely on executive privilege to rush it through.
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Perfectly reasonable
I have so far not been able to locate one single warrant issued for the purpose of searching airline passengers, nor has the particular thing or things to be seized been named.
Agents who do not wish to be labeled sex offenders are free to refuse the orders to conduct illegal searches, or they can quit their jobs and go do something legal and productive.
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Re: Perfectly reasonable
If you don't want to get searched, you don't have to fly on a commercial airline.
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Re: Re: Perfectly reasonable
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Re: Re: Re: Perfectly reasonable
If you want the convenience of flying and being able to fly at a lower rate you have to subject yourself to some things. It's the social contract theory, been around for ages.
I flew recently and I didn't have to get groped or go through the scanner. Just went through a metal detector. The percentage of people actually getting groped or going through the scanner is minuscule compared to the people traveling.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Perfectly reasonable
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Re: Re: Perfectly reasonable
Really?
Suggest you look into this: http://bit.ly/fVaHT7
"We road (sic) the train from Deland, FL to Savannah, GA.
When we got off in Savannah, there were TSA agents out on the platform that told us to go inside to get our (checked) luggage...We told them we just got OFF the train. They said they didn't care, that if we entered the building, we were subject to search."
These people did not fly on a commercial airline.
Or this: http://bit.ly/cDheKL
"The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is warning that any would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint and then refuses to undergo the method of inspection designated by TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport"
So if you go to the airport in good faith, and only learn of the porno scanner and freedom grope once you get there, you are not legally allowed to back out slowly.
Or this: http://bit.ly/dw9XOu
"Okay, so now they were detaining me as I was leaving the airport facility"
Or this: http://bit.ly/aDLTOu
"One officer examines the child's shirt before touching his lower body during the search as his helpless father watches at Salt Lake City International Airport"
Or this: http://bit.ly/gvC1fN
"I was informed that opting out was not an option and that I needed to leave the airport"
I could just go on and on and on.
If you *really* do not want to get searched, move to Canada.
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Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs...
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The people have bitched to the TSA and feds about these procedures. They feds have consistently blown people off, If you bitch about it at the airport you get “special treatment”. Laws like this show the people do not take to be blown off about being felt up, very kindly.
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Re:
That's about one word off from putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.
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Re: devices forced into my body by government officals
I remember living behind a church were Brian Lamb, and a bunch of these Cspan guys used too have a wood shop. At that place of residence my mom thought I needed an exorcist, after playing in the mud the way very young children will sometimes with my uncle who mixed a glass of this red clay in water and told me it was chocolate milk.
After drinking it as he would force me to do thing all the time like the time he made me cut off the limb I was sitting on and the device came out of my shoulder being more powerful and in control I broke out with ring worm all over my body and my mom told me it was writing that could not be understood so she had priests come in from the church.
I guess my Dad did not know that one of the people at the church was in line for being my new dad but that was not in the cards because I guess he felt I was in need of discipline after an accident in the wood shop. I had been check out on the band saw by my grandfather who was a millwright in Arkansas and to do some jobs the blade shield had to be removed. Some kids came in and wanted to use the saw, then got mad that I wanted to warn them to put the guard on and they told me they owned it all and I was not to tell them anything, and after this head strong kid cut his thumb off the other kids said they would tell their fathers it was all my fault, but it was not.
I had a fever of well over a hundred and I was a bloody mess with the infection. The priests came in with outer guys and one had a camera. The priests would throw me across the room well the other snapped a picture. I would fall on furniture and the floor and they would tell me get on the bed, don't get off the bed very loud and when I would crawl back on the bed they would pick me up and throw me over and over again well the other priest would snap another picture and this went on till one guy said we have enough picture and they left me in the blood, mud, and bedding, then my aunt came in with some save that was for ring worm.
She spread the save and kidded me about dying when the rings got to my heart. After getting well I went back to the wood shop and the guys had made me a special shield and gave me my sword which were both made of wood and I had to fight one of the guys in my shorts because I did not want to remove them and the other guy was naked (he knowS who he is). I was still not up too speed and lost the battle. They then called me the bad guy and this group was supposed to be my gate keeper or something like that appointed by the priests. My Dad did not like them much also but that did not matter much because someone at the church was going to be my new dad till he said no, my mom cried allot, my dad was gone, I healed up, but I still have a case.
Please know that there is nothing any of you can do to make what you and the rest of the ones involved can do to make this my fault. See at the time I was about seven years old. Since then the church has made an effort to kill me, to the extent of trying to pass laws to kill sex offenders.
Come on, keep it up, keep pushing laws that you as a group of very said individuals know have no value. Take me too court so I can own a network. I have met with your staff members in private since along with military personal and others.
Now lets note when this happened I was only a small child being thrown around a room like a rag doll by people that started all this clear back in the late fifty's and the steering by very bad people that think abusing kids to make laws to stop abuse, Ha! these laws are bogus and the fact that they can not kill gays anymore does not justify the use of laws too kill someone set up by them to create some worthless set of laws by a fusion of church and state is wrong and realty designed by them to harm us all.
My case was pragmatic but more than that I know what was done and who was involved making vendetta laws that really have no bases in truth, and are based in lies.
Keith Richard Radford Jr
PSS don't be cowards, let me know you received this e-mail through a response.
It's time to communicate and anyone that endorses sex laws is a sick pos.
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Re:
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Re:
I applied to the TSA for the same reason I've applied everywhere else...because being unemployed for a length of time means I'm not picky. And unlike the literally hundreds of other job applications I've put in since 2008, the TSA actually gave me a call back.
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Re: Re:
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> [the law] makes the touching or viewing with a technological device of a person's breasts or genitals by a government security agent without probable cause a sexual assault.
So apparently if you work for the government, viewing porn is illegal now?
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Not Flying Until the TSA Stops the radiation exposure and molestation
"They say the risk is minimal, but statistically someone is going to get skin cancer from these X-rays," Dr Michael Love, who runs an X-ray lab at the department of biophysics and biophysical chemistry at Johns Hopkins University school of medicine, told AFP."No exposure to X-ray is considered beneficial. We know X-rays are hazardous but we have a situation at the airports where people are so eager to fly that they will risk their lives in this manner," he said
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/body-scanners-dangerous-scientists
http://www.aolnews. com/2010/12/20/aol-investigation-no-proof-tsa-scanners-are-safe/
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Also, I can't help wondering how the TSA would react if large numbers of people started asking for the agent giving the pat-down to go slower and concentrate on their genitals more. Maybe start grinding against their hand and moaning. :)
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Why are you torn?
I don't know why people question weather morals should be followed in the workplace. If it's a big enough deal you should follow your morals, the TSA agents are not.
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Re: Why are you torn?
Yes, some of them are simply jerks and act inappropriately. Are there no jerks working with you (hint - if there aren't any, it's you).
The vast majority of TSA agents are employees trying to earn a living. Even skipping the ones that really believe they are protecting people, you have to have some sympathy for the ones that could be forced to quit their job because the organization they work for has bad policies. For many of them, I'm sure it is the best job they have ever had and quitting may leave them unemployed and broke.
Forcing the TSA to change policies by making a law that places the blame for the bad policies on the TSA agents is backwards and, if necessary to fix the policies, unfortunate. It would place the burden of making policy changes onto people that have to give up their jobs in order to effect the change.
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Hey
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