Student Who Found GPS Device On His Car Due To Reddit Comment Sues The FBI

from the don't-mess-with-reddit dept

Fri, Mar 4th 2011 1:46pm — Mike Masnick

Last fall, we wrote about the bizarre situation of Yasir Afifi, a student here in California who discovered a GPS tracking device on his car during an oil change, and then posted photos of the device on Reddit. Following that, the FBI showed up at his house demanding the tracking device back. It later turned out that the key reason behind tracking him was a random comment on Reddit that -- if read in context -- did not represent any kind of threat or warning that should have resulted in FBI surveillance. But, of course, since there's almost no oversight on who the FBI gets to spy on, it didn't care and just started tracking Afifi.

Afifi has now sued the government over the tracking action, claiming that it was a violation of his civil rights. There are some differences of opinion in the courts over whether or not the government needs a warrant to place GPS devices on cars, which provides some background for this case. There's a bit of a circuit split on that right now, with the government (obviously) insisting that no warrant is needed. Part of the goal of this lawsuit appears to be to get another ruling on this issue to push it forward. Given the history on this subject, I would guess that Afifi will likely lose the lawsuit, but the possibility that it actually does go in his favor makes the case worth paying attention to.

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Filed Under: fbi, gps, tracking, warrant, yasir afifi

67 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:03pm

He should have just put in in a box and mailed it to russia. Let them track that!
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Adam Wasserman (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:23pm

Re:
What with warrentless wiretapping, and gps trackers being planted secretly on citizen's cars, it might be said that Russia has already "been mailed" to the USA.
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el_segfaulto (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:23pm

Re:
I'd love to capture a chipmunk or raccoon and attach the GPS (humanely) to it.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:38pm

Re:
"He should have just put in in a box and mailed it to russia. Let them track that!"

Oh, sure. Like the poor bastard wouldn't have been immediately charged with transporting classified technology to the enemy and summarily executed....
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nobody, 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:39pm

I was just thinking that if i attached it to a feral hog...
it would serve two purposes... track the hogs movements..
and give the fbi an useful task for a while..
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:43pm

Re: Re:
The tracking device in question weighed well over a pound, and resembled a large mag-light without the light part. I'd love to to see you (humanely) attach a chipmunk to that.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:43pm

He likely would lose the lawsuit because the authorities were not knowingly breaking the law. The legality of the GPS tracker without warrant is in the grey area, there are not any rulings on it either way. He would first have to prove that the device was against the law, and then also show damage. It's not a winning hand, I don't think.

It is margin. What I have heard is that this sort of tracking device used privately (say to track a rental car) is legal.
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cc (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:44pm

He'll get $200 and a deportation.

Btw, have you guys been checking under your cars/the backs of your necks lately? Given the sort of discussions we usually have on TechDirt (including this one, in fact), a few of us are bound to have tracking devices/missiles pointed at our mom's houses! :P
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 2:45pm

Re: Re:
The tracking device in question weighed well over a pound, and resembled a large mag-light without the light part. I'd love to to see you (humanely) attach a chipmunk to that.
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puggugly, 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:01pm

what to do with it...
Given the size - attach it to a live vest and throw it in the ocean or nearest river.
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angelwolf71885 (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:03pm

Re: Re:
i would of mailed it to ifixit and let them do a tear down on it
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Josef Anvil (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:08pm

*facepalm*
I don't even know what to say.

If the FBI is wasting resources chasing anyone with an Arab sounding name who posts anything relating to a bomb on a blog, they really have no clue where to look for terrorists. Makes you wonder how they find kidnappers or murderers.
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Forge, 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:11pm

The FBI is worthless!! Couldn't catch their own butts with both hands and a squad of attack dogs! Rah rah! Allahu Akbar.

I await delivery of my new (and restricted) electronics.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:14pm

He should sue Reddit. Isn't that how this whole third party liability thing works?
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TehZomB (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:14pm

Re: what to do with it...
Ooh, that would be a fun project for the FBI agents involved.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:15pm

God Bless the Police State of America.
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DH's Love Child (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:19pm

Re:
So, let me get this straight, if the gubment 'unknowingly' breaks the law it's ok, but if we mere plebes do so, 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'?

Actually that sounds about right now that I read it. Those 3 letter initial agencies shouldn't have to be bothered by such annoying things as laws and the constitution...
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Another User, 4 Mar 2011 @ 3:46pm

Re: what to do with it...
I would put it on a UPS truck or a semi truck.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 4:16pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yes! And when we find out the particulars, just start magnetically attaching them under taxicabs and city bus(s).
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 4:18pm

Basically, it's easier and more fun to track people writing comments on the web than it is to track criminals, terrorists or others who might shoot back. The FBI has often been the goon squad of corrupt politicians (mostly Republican) and payola paying industrialists.
I say, opt out. The FBI doesn't work for us. We don't help them. It's fair.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 4:18pm

Re: Re: Re:
to a bear then. i'd love to see the guy that got the job of retrieving it. before and after photos pls :)
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Angry Puppy (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 4:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
.. and the bear looks down and says: "You're not really here to hunt, are you?"
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Angry Puppy (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 4:39pm

Re: *facepalm*
Agreed, if he was Wayne Smith from Jefferson, Wyoming the remark (which seemed only observational and completely nonthreatening to my untrained senses) would have been ignored.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 5:12pm

Re: Re:
No, the government acts in "good faith" based on legal opinion, in an area of the law that is not clearly defined. At best, this guy could get a ruling that says "they aren't allowed to do it", but it would be much harder to claim that the government acted in bad faith or specifically broke the law.

It isn't "ignorance of the law", it's the old "black hole in the law" that makes this neither legal or illegal. The same following could be done with unmarked police cars, helicopters, security cameras, and such. Is it such a big jump to use technology to achieve the same results?
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Christopher (profile), 4 Mar 2011 @ 5:16pm

Re:
Well, I can understand their reasoning after the whole Arizona shooter thing.
That said, I do N O T think this should be done without a warrant.
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FuzzyDuck, 4 Mar 2011 @ 5:36pm

Re:
You are being tracked already.
You are even paying for the device.
Your cellphone.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 7:40pm

Re: Re: Re:
What? It can be done. Whether or not the chipmunk could /move/ afterwards...? That's for the betting pools.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 8:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Acela trains or long haul trucks. Or migrating geese!

A cruise ship!

Oh, fun!
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Mar 2011 @ 10:07pm

Re:
He'll get $200 and a deportation.

According to the article, he was born in the US. Not sure where they will deport him to since he is a citizen of the US.

Then again, with extraordinary rendition and other unethical/illegal actions done in the past, I suspect him being born in the US and a citizen, they probably can still send him to Mexico like they did with Mark Lyttle.
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david karapetyan, 5 Mar 2011 @ 2:04am

the FBI should change its motto
I'm sure glad to be taxed every year so that the FBI can have all the resources they need to lead completely useless investigations against college students.
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fedd, 5 Mar 2011 @ 4:17am

Re: Re:
> Your cellphone.

after i knew this, i attached mine to a chipmunk and let it go
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Michael, 5 Mar 2011 @ 4:44am

Classic
The one time the FBI does the smart thing and profiles, they pick the most harmless person.
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Chargone (profile), 5 Mar 2011 @ 5:24am

Re: Re: Re:
attaching a chipmunk to it is probably fine.

attaching it to a chipmunk, on the other hand, might be problematic.

(the order has implications regarding the function of the result. mostly it's ability to move.)
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Chargone (profile), 5 Mar 2011 @ 5:28am

Re: Re:
well, skipping the execution part you can get yourself in legal hot water in NZ by posting cryptographic data, which you created yourself, to yourself... our legal system seems to have inherited Britain's fun habit of just quietly Forgetting about laws which are no longer relevant, rather than repealing them, which sometimes leads to some rather bizzare complications.

also, your car is a cow.
(legal logic regarding wheel clamps and car towing ends up falling back on some bit of English common law about what happens when your cow wanders into your neighbour's guarden. )
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Chargone (profile), 5 Mar 2011 @ 5:30am

Re: Re:
'course, if you weren't, they wouldn't work right, but this is a good point.
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Rekrul, 5 Mar 2011 @ 9:07am

With all the discussion about what's legal for the FBI in this incident, I'd be curious to know what's considered legal for the person who finds an unknown device attached to their car.

If you have no idea what it is or how it got there, do you have any legal obligation to find out or to keep it safe? Is there any law against tampering with or disposing of an unknown device, or unknown origin, that you happen to find attached to your vehicle?
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Thomas (profile), 5 Mar 2011 @ 10:14am

Afifi is lucky..
that the FBI didn't just take him away in a black SUV, never to be seen again. None of the spooks really worry about the legality of what they are doing anyway and they are pretty much free to do what they want.

I think it would have been better to take the device off his car and put it on a police car or taxi cab.
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Mar 2011 @ 7:07pm

Well, now that this little government scheme has been exposed, it's too late to put that genie back in the bottle!
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dbkliv, 6 Mar 2011 @ 6:13am

Response to: Anonymous Coward on Mar 4th, 2011 @ 2:43pm
I think you've mixed up two similar aspects of the story. First, the student is alleging a harm: that his civil liberties were infringed by the government. Second, the placing of GPS trackers on a vehicle is currently a gray issue in the courts: nobody is really all that sure whether a warrant is needed for that action.

You're saying that first the student needs to prove the FBI agents knowingly broke a law, then prove damage. This isn't how civil liberties infringement cases go though.

The question at its core is this: does an American resident's reasonable expectation of privacy under the Fourth Amendment include the history of his movements througout a day?

If the courts agree that this is covered by the reasonable expectation clause, then his civil rights will have been infringed, and his suit will have been successful. And the inverse ourtcome follows.

There's no mens rea required here. The agents aren't being accused of breaking a law; they're accused of violating the student's civil rights.

As for the rental cars: the tracking systems are written into the rental contract. By notifying the renter of the potential presence of tracking an monitoring devices, the rental agencies unset the expectation to privacy.

The fact that the rental agencies notify renters of the tracking devices actually strengthens the student's claim of infringement.
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dbkliv, 6 Mar 2011 @ 6:13am

Response to: Anonymous Coward on Mar 4th, 2011 @ 2:43pm
I think you've mixed up two similar aspects of the story. First, the student is alleging a harm: that his civil liberties were infringed by the government. Second, the placing of GPS trackers on a vehicle is currently a gray issue in the courts: nobody is really all that sure whether a warrant is needed for that action.

You're saying that first the student needs to prove the FBI agents knowingly broke a law, then prove damage. This isn't how civil liberties infringement cases go though.

The question at its core is this: does an American resident's reasonable expectation of privacy under the Fourth Amendment include the history of his movements througout a day?

If the courts agree that this is covered by the reasonable expectation clause, then his civil rights will have been infringed, and his suit will have been successful. And the inverse ourtcome follows.

There's no mens rea required here. The agents aren't being accused of breaking a law; they're accused of violating the student's civil rights.

As for the rental cars: the tracking systems are written into the rental contract. By notifying the renter of the potential presence of tracking an monitoring devices, the rental agencies unset the expectation to privacy.

The fact that the rental agencies notify renters of the tracking devices actually strengthens the student's claim of infringement.
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velox (profile), 6 Mar 2011 @ 10:39am

Re:
"He should have just put in in a box and mailed it to russia. Let them track that!"
I think this Antarctica address would have been better (and as DH notes, safer too)

McMurdo Station- RPSC
PSC 469 Box 700
APO AP 96599-1035
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Cybertelecom, 7 Mar 2011 @ 8:12am

But There is a First Amendment Problem
There is one legal issue about whether a warrant is needed for a tracking device.

There is another legal issue about whether the government can initiate an investigation of you based on innocuous comments. The government cannot exercise its police authority to simply chill speech it finds disagreeable. It cannot initiate a review of your taxes. It cannot check to see if your parking tickets are all paid. And it cannot attach GPS devices to your car simply based on disagreeable speech.

While a warrant may or may not be needed for an exercise of police authority, it does not mean that the authority gets to be exercised any way the polices wants. There are other constitutional concerns.
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DH's Love Child (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:19am

Re: Re: Re:
Yes it is. When they follow you with a helicopter, or unmarked car, they do not altar your personal property. They had to physically break into his car to plant that device, so that should have been a clear indication that they would need a warrant to do so.
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DH's Love Child (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:23am

Re: *facepalm*
You must not read this blog regularly.. They find them by creating them in the first place.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Apr 2011 @ 7:31pm

The FBI doesn't think there's any harm
Does that mean that if an individual places a tracking device, there's no harm?
What is the harm collecting information?

BTW: Should've stuck it to a car with out of state plates, sending them to another state.
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GPS Garu, 22 Oct 2011 @ 1:30pm

good faith
The government was acting in "good faith" They must have a had a reason or they would not have put it their. Even though they found nothing "so what" He did not have anything to hide!!! DID HE?
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Car for Sale Australia, 19 Sep 2013 @ 11:26pm

Car for Sale Australia
The government is overly paranoid and the citizens are getting there. Why not? Our every move and comments are being watched without us knowing it. There are a million US citizens. How is the government able to keep track of all these people?
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B. Burnes, 9 Jul 2014 @ 8:45pm

The comment was....?
Would've been nice to see the comment that triggered the incident.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Jul 2014 @ 10:09pm

Re: Re:
Yeah, police even have "just following orders" with police procedure defence for brutality. Lets see anyone else try to use their job policies to excuse illegal and unethical actions.
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bgmcb (profile), 9 Jul 2014 @ 11:35pm

Re: The comment was....?
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ciiag/so_if_my_deodorant_could_be_a_bomb_why_are_you/c0sv e5q
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Angry Citizen, 10 Jul 2014 @ 3:42am

Re: Re: Re:
Are you directly on their payroll or are you just suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

The government has been infiltrated by fascists and they are making war on the US Constitution - that is the very definition of Treason.

It's not a 'gray' area. The US Constitution says that even if somebody is found guilty they can't be tortured.

These people are scum and should be deported to North Korea where they can fit in.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2014 @ 4:18am

Re: Classic
Actually profiling is pretty goddamn stupid. Despite any illusions of efficiency doing so creates an exploitable gap in your security. If you give them something to watch it means free stealth for those who don't fit the profile. Barring feelings of validation of bigotry the only "feature" is that it leaves feelings of security without inconvenience because you're not "those people".

One hilariously karmic example of profiling backfiring: retail. A store watches closely and practically stalks any black customers that enter. Meanwhile the actual shoplifters have figured it out, bring a black friend as a decoy and walk right out of the store with expensive items.

Bonus to the stupidity: they're focusing on the wrong source of theft. The biggest source of retail shrinkage comes from the employees.
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Rick, 10 Jul 2014 @ 5:09am

better idea
Just slap the GPS tracker on a UPS truck, lots of fun ensues.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2014 @ 6:46am

Re: Re: Re:
Did the devices in Breaking Bad exist as they looked ? Pretty small and usb ready.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2014 @ 6:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Honestly, if I found something like that under my car, I'd stick it to something metallic (they're magnets afterall) on my house, and put it back when I only to work.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2014 @ 6:53am

Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Mar 4th, 2011 @ 2:43pm
In my province, TOUCHING someone else's car is illegal without the consent of the owner.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Jul 2014 @ 6:57am

Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Mar 4th, 2011 @ 2:43pm
Some rental places have a no gps policy as a feature. They don't advertise it in big letters outside the building but they will tell you if asked. Yes, even in the US (as a lot of Canadians do, especially those living close to the border, we have a passport-driving license to be able to roll into the US. I've been there often. In fact a small town close to my hometown is cut in half by the border, there's lines inside the library and lanes on either side of the road saying USA and CANADA on the other.
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Noh bawdy, 5 Oct 2014 @ 10:51pm

Returning the divice
I personally would either completely strip it down to parts, or melt the fucker and mail it back. Maybe even just duct tape it to their office window.
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joshua roy, 9 Oct 2014 @ 2:11am

This isn't nothing.
Lol, I was investigated for a year plus, had 39 fire arms illegally seized, my CCL stripped, threatened with federal time, and had my name ruined by the F.B.I "CALLED ME A HOMEGROWN TERRORIST"... All because of what my ex wife told them during my divorce. Anyone knows a good lawyer call me 2545920046.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
saikumar, 19 Jun 2015 @ 11:36pm

trackwheel
i like this thanku u
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ovi, 1 Apr 2018 @ 5:07am

GSP Tracker
GPS tracker protect the most valuable property. It's very important for car. you need a solution to monitor and protect these cars. Let me explain a few ways of GPS tracking for car.Rental companies can track all their cars in a live, 3G map, even if the car is stolen, it is able to know the exact location and take a positive action ,alert ,notification and driving reports.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Shaun Cook, 5 Apr 2018 @ 11:26pm

Afifi may be fully cooperating with the FBI, but is the FBI fully cooperating with him?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
mobiele tikklok, 12 Sep 2018 @ 4:14am

gpstrackentrace
Welkom bij GPSTrackenTrace.be - GPS Track en trace. Online track en tracing van uw voertuigen of werfmachines. Gps voertuig volgsysteem, gps tracking auto
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Karan, 31 Oct 2018 @ 3:13am

Bike Safety with GPS Tracker
Bike Tracker Info: https://www.reddit.com/r/Alzheimers/comments/8z8ni6/best_gps_tracking_device_for_someone_who_wanders /e8s3f7t/
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Nice
Nice
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saki789 (profile), 27 Mar 2020 @ 11:47pm

Why should it be unconstitutional for the FBI to use technology
I doubt he has a case, but following/watching is passive observation and the tracker manipulates private property, and I believe the latter is more severe. What if they installed a laser tripwire, without a warrant, across someone's property to measure when they come and go? If both endpoints are on public property, it seems reasonable. It's just a passive observation from public property. But installing it right on their doorstep? Inside the house's threshold? Or on every doorway in the house? In that progression, there's clearly a point where it is no longer constitutional without a warrant. Using an equivalence with the practical result - determining when people come and go - suggests it's OK to install a device on the doorstep, since no extra bits of information are gleaned as opposed to watching from the street. But actually entering property to make modifications is no longer passive, which is where I take issue. After all, I can't paint someone else's garage more tastefully, no matter how ugly it is! I believe the same threshold should apply to your personal car, even though I doubt it does.

If technology makes passive observation efficient, then that's great. But planting a tracking device on the car is no longer passive observation.

https://digitalgreenfox.com/best-gps-tracker-for-cheating-spouse/
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