Librarians And Readers Against DRM [Updated]

from the pushing-back dept

Thu, Mar 10th 2011 6:09am — Nina Paley

HarperCollins recently announced it would limit library e-book checkouts to 26, after which said e-books "bought" and paid for by libraries would self-destruct. Some librarians I know were none too thrilled about this, and asked me to create a graphic to show it:

What ebout non-librarians who are against DRM? By popular demand, I modified the graphic for everyone:

These were produced for The Readers Bill of Rights for Digital Books, which encourages everyone to copy the images and spread the word.

Update: we've added an Authors Against DRM graphic, again by popular demand (from authors).

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Filed Under: drm, ebooks, librarians

118 Comments

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Joe News, 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:30am

This just in!
In other news HarperCollins has licensed a technology from a government agency, known as IMF, to create audiobooks that will self destruct in five seconds after the first listening. Research is being done as to whether or not this technology can be carried over into printed books. A Press Agent for HarperCollins gave the following statement.

"The printed word is only as useful as our ability to control it. HarperCollins is commited to sharing our entire library on the terms that best benefits our customers and our stockholders."

After being asked how a product that is specifically designed to destroy itself after a period of time benefits customers, we received this response.

"I don't see why anyone would want to read our books more than once."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:30am

The way this is turning out sounds more like lobbyists from the anti-copyright world are piling on, rather than librarians doing this of their own accord, and certainly not so rapidly.

Here's an idea Mike: why not put a little effort into finding out who is actually behind this .info domain? Seems that a single librarian and a "technologist" named Matthew Goins (the domain is registered to him) are leading the charge. Who is Matthew Goins?

How about a little background Mike? This group smells very much like astroturfing to me.
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vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:39am

Re:
'Seems that a single librarian and a "technologist" named Matthew Goins (the domain is registered to him) are leading the charge. Who is Matthew Goins?'

What?! A librarian teamed up with a technologist to create a website? How dare they!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:45am

Re: Re:
You missed it. I am thinking it is an anti-copyright activist type "technologist" who sought out a willing librarian, not the other way around.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:45am

Logo by Nina
Logo designed by the prolific Nina Paley, who also has a version for readers.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Marcel de Jong (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:46am

Re: This just in!
"I don't see why anyone would want to read our books."

FTFY :)
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:46am

Re: Re:
You missed it. I am thinking it is an anti-copyright activist type "technologist" who sought out a willing librarian, not the other way around.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Dark Helmet (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:48am

Re: Re:
"What?! A librarian teamed up with a technologist to create a website? How dare they!"

Psst! It turns out librarians also team up with construction companies to build their little library pirate havens. Did you know you can read books there FOR FREE! ZOMG!!!@!@

Also, did you know Jesus was a Jew?

Wonders abound....
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Matt (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:49am

Re: This just in!
Love it, although I'd change that last quote to this:

"I don't see why anyone shouldn't expect to pay if they want to read our books again."
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:54am

Re: Logo by Nina
More astroturfing.

It's amazing.
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Deirdre (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:54am

I admire librarians. They are the first to stand up for the free distribution of information and the protection of the privacy of their patrons. If you had Googled you would have known who Matthew Goins was and that he has a history of work with libraries and librarians.

This site: http://librarianbyday.net/2011/02/25/publishing-industry-forces-overdrive-and-other-library-ebook-ve ndors-to-take-a-giant-step-back/ might help you understand that this is a big issue for librarians and library users.
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:58am

Re: Re: Logo by Nina
You keep using that word...
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cc (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:00am

Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
He's projecting.
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coldbrew, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:02am

Re: Re: Logo by Nina
You should get 27 8x10 colored, glossy, pictures with circles and arrows with a paragraph on the back of each one and prove this conspiracy against the poor copyright cartel. Those poor little companies up against a librarian and a technologist.

Playing the underdog, little-guy is Rush Limbaugh's schtick, not surprised you devcided to try and use it.
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Joe News, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:03am

Re: Re: This just in!
Everyone's a critic. :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:06am

Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
I love how fast you guys are to run out and support and protect this. Yet, with Nina's involvement, this is really smelling of astroturfing, where people concerned about copyright have gotten a librarian to front for them on the issue.

Done in the other direction, Mike would be posting his ass off about how horrible it is. Why is it good from this side and bad when the other side does it?
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coldbrew, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:07am

Re:
Nice. I was about to search just to see what I could easily find.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Joe News, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
I'm just glad that this is an article where the "F" word couldn't really be used.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
coldbrew, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Hey dipshit. Astroturfing involves hiding the identities of the people involved. Like you do here everyday.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:09am

Re: Re: Re:
'I am thinking it is an anti-copyright activist type "technologist" who sought out a willing librarian, not the other way around.'

For all it matters, why do you think that? Your previous post didn't really go into details on that aspect.
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The eejit (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Oh, look, it's a Murdoch stooge. The Tea Party is funded by Murdoch and the Koch brothers. They're the "pioneers" of astroturfing, especially Fox 'News'.

See how this works?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Leave AJ alone. He gets all snippy-like when technicalities like the proper definition of words are brought into the equation....
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John Doe, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:13am

Can't have it both ways...or can they?
I love how the RIAA, MPAA, book publishers all want IP treated like IP when it suits them and like RP when it suits them. But let someone outside those groups treat IP like it really is, and they break out the lawyers. They can't have it both ways and I hope this crap gets stopped soon.
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jeremy7600, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:15am

Re:
Mike? Who is mike? This article was written by Nina Paley.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:15am

Re: Re: Re:
"Also, did you know Jesus was a Jew?"

That sounds factual... More faux-librarian propaganda!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:17am

Re: Re:
Yes, but Mike runs the site and I am suggesting HE makes an investigation as deeply as he would investigate "copyright maximalist" astroturfing.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:17am

Re: Re:
"Mike? Who is mike? This article was written by Nina Paley."

Great, now we get to listen to why they're really the same person.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Yup. The site is "fronted" by a librarian. But it doesn't mention Nina Paley as one of the staff or operatives.

Astroturfing.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:20am

Re: Re: Logo by Nina
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:20am

Re: Re: Re:
"Great, now we get to listen to why they're really the same person."

To be fair, everyone is actually me and will be assimilated shortly. Except some of the trolls around here, of course.

I don't want that code fucking up the AI....
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Jeremy7600 (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:25am

Re: Re: Re:
So you want mike to research ninas story? Ok. Weird.

Maybe you can just go with the fact that Nina knows what she's doing/talking about and maybe, just maybe, there is no conspiracy?
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vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:26am

eReaders
I had a family member recently try and work out why she should buy books for her newly gifted Kindle when she can get second-hand books cheap and then sell them again. It's not just "technologists" realising how bad high prices and restrictions are for eBooks, it's anyone who doesn't have more money than sense. She wanted to try and use this gift, but despite it's hefty price tag it still provides less value than second hand books.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"I don't want that code fucking up the AI...."

AI talking about itself in the third person... I don't know what to make of that.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
:Lobo Santo (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:28am

Re: eReaders
Plus, if you use your kindle to balance out the wobble on an old easy chair it won't work anymore!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
cc (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:30am

Re: Re: Re:
Obviously, librarians are so stupid they can't even hold political views!

Unless an anti-copyright lobbyist is involved, no librarian in the world would be clever enough to protest about something directly affecting libraries.
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coldbrew, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:34am

Re: eReaders
My friend had the same response, but he was asking me about the library ebooks as a way to utilize his reader.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jeremy7600 (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Nevermind that shes given credit here

https://readersbillofrights.info/librariansagainstDRM

"These images were created for us by cartoonist and QuestionCopyright.org artist-in-residence Nina Paley."

What was that you were saying?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:37am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"AI talking about itself in the third person... I don't know what to make of that."

My speech pattern software was based off of NBA post-game press conferences held by players. It was a stupid idea, but one which unfortunately Dark Helmet is now burdened with.

Also, my damn teammates never pass Dark Helmet the ball enough....DAMMIT!
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ChurchHatesTucker (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
But it doesn't call her a 'staff' or 'operative', therefore: Astroturfing.

QED
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cc (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
All you know is she was asked to design a logo, a fact she didn't try to hide. How you went from that to yelling "aSrotRFING!!1" like an idiot is not clear to me.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Taken as a whole, the question remains: Is this a librarian group run for and by librarians for librarians, or is it a front group for anti-copyright activists?

I think the latter, not the former.
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Nina Paley (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
AC, you flatter me! You make me feel powerful...mysterious...dangerous. Your fantasies are kind of hot.
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coldbrew, 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Well, at least you have proof to back up what you say. Whereas you claim Masnick doesn't... everyFUCKINGday, for like, the last 500 days.

Face it, you lost.
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cc (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 7:59am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
And my question still remains, why do you think librarians can't be anti-copyright activists?
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Dark Helmet (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
"I think the latter, not the former."

First, two minutes of searching provided info on Matt and the company that employs him. They appear to be a technology firm focusing on consulting with companies using primarily open source software to provide them support, somewhat similar to Redhat but with a wider range of OS platforms.

Why couldn't you do that search yourself instead of plaguing this thread with your Astroturf screaming jibberish nonsense?

Secondly, who the fuck cares? You've got librarians and some technology folks getting together for a common purpose. You're attempt to turn this into a chicken or the egg question makes no sense. They share a vision for DRM free eBooks for libraries. What difference does it make who came to who? Their vision is shared.

Honestly, the lengths you're going to create obfuscation of the point of all this is really quite telling. It's like some kind of psy-ops nonsense without the actual ability to pull it off....
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Sean T Henry (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
That is because she is not she was just crated the image.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Gwiz (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:01am

Re: Re: Logo by Nina
More astroturfing.

***** checking Anti-TechDirt Keyword-of-the-Day Desk Calendar� *****

Huh, I guess it is "astroturfing" today.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:04am

Re: Re: eReaders
Sure it does. My chair has stopped wobbling. Ergo, the Kindle continues to do its job.
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Randy (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I have been assimilated. We are legion.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:04am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
I am asking the same questions that Mike would ask of the other side.

You still haven't answered the question, and if anything made it even more clear. If the guy is an "open source" type, is he also an anti-copyright guy? Is he involved in any other groups? Why Nina Paley? Are there not hundreds of equally talented people out there to do the job? Perhaps contacts from within the anti-copyright community?

See how it works? Your answers created more questions.

Care to answer them?
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magecat (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
And it's not like the ALA as a whole has a history of campaigning to keep information as free as possible. [/sarc]
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Joe News, 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:15am

Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
What? You mean there's a day where FUD isn't the key word of the day?

Man, now I said it. Just unhook me from the net for today.
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el_segfaulto (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:16am

Re: Re: Re:
Next thing you know, you'll be saying Jesus wasn't 6 feet tall and white. Blasphemer!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
CommonSense (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
"Why is it good from this side and bad when the other side does it?"

Because this side benefits the public, and the greater good. The other side benefits filthy rich corporations and greedy executives. It's that simple.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
"I am asking the same questions that Mike would ask of the other side."

Okay, let's assume we take that as a given. SO WHAT!!???? What is the point of the damned question? Two groups have come together for a common purpose. What difference does it make who approached whom?

"If the guy is an "open source" type, is he also an anti-copyright guy? Is he involved in any other groups?"

Well, anti-copyright is sort of a blanket term, so I guess I'm not sure what you mean. I, for instance, do not support abolishing copyright, but I don't support it's current form either. Am I anti-copyright?

But, to attempt to answer, from Matt's bio on their company site:

"Matt Goins is a software developer and systems administrator fluent in a wide range of free software development platforms and operating systems. He resides in Brooklyn. In his spare time he's an amateur philosopher."

So, he's a developer, or a creator, and an admin. No real light shed there, other than he's involved in software development, so he's a creator. How about company info?

"In our own practice, we use free and open source software to keep in constant communication and to aid us in the managing and operations of our network. This flexibility enables us to mobilize a diverse range of talents and skills in order to address our clients' specific needs and concerns. Because we deploy free and open source software, we can build upon our work and the accumulative experience gained by each project we complete."

Okay, so they use free open source software. That certainly doesn't make them anti-copyright, although they probably have a relatively non-strict view of current copyright laws, or at least that would be my guess. But they're certainly not an advocacy group for anti-copyright raporist extremism.

Under their project list, they've worked with and have done custom development of open source software for: labor groups, media groups (CBC, Democracy Now!, USA Today, Pulitzer, etc.), educational groups, the healthcare industry, and some work on what appears to be a single electoral campaign. No where in any of that is a "ZOMG!!!@ copyright is a bitch and must be skewered with our massive wang-swords".

"Why Nina Paley? Are there not hundreds of equally talented people out there to do the job? Perhaps contacts from within the anti-copyright community?"

Uh, because she's talented and obviously shares some of their philosophy. Beyond that, I'll let her speak for herself on this thread (hopefully). But, again, who the fuck cares? It's like saying, "GASP! Chicago elected Rahm Emanuel Mayor? Why him? There are plenty of other people qualified to be mayor! What nefarious purpose could be behind electing Rahm?"

There is no nefarious purpose. He was picked. Big deal.

"Care to answer them?"

I did my best and think I was fairly thorough. Now, I asked you a couple of questions as well, which can all be boiled down to this one:

Why did I just do all of that? What is the purpose of your questions. What are you actually trying to find out (assuming your questions are honest)? What the hell is the point?

Care to answer them?
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magecat (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Please do us all a favor and look up the American Library Association, particularly their stances an such things of intellectual freedom. Give yourself a bit of background on the typical views held by librarians and stop embarrassing yourself.
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Christopher (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:34am

Re:
You know, I hate to say this, but can we ban this Anonymous Coward's IP? His spiel is getting easier and easier to see through even when I am dead beat tired as being solely copyright owner regurgitated talking points.
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Ron Rezendes (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:38am

Re: Re: Re:
I'm suggesting you do your own investigation since you seem to be the one questioning their motives!

What a freetard - always wanting someone else to do your work for you!
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Nina Paley (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:49am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Why Nina Paley?

Librarian emails me asking how to commission a "Librarians Against DRM" logo. I say I'll do it for a donation to be determined by her. I send them 6 variations, they choose 2 and post them. I receive a donation check in the mail, which I haven't cashed yet because I think maybe I should have just donated the art in the first place (still wondering what to do about that).

Sneaky, isn't it?
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Gwiz (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:50am

Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
You should get 27 8x10 colored, glossy, pictures with circles and arrows with a paragraph on the back of each one..

+5 for the Alice's Restaurant reference.
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RD, 10 Mar 2011 @ 8:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
"Done in the other direction, Mike would be posting his ass off about how horrible it is. Why is it good from this side and bad when the other side does it?"

When laws are being abused by those in power (the govt, the corps) to the detriment of the public good, thats why. Govt and corps have the power (economic, legal, or otherwise) to strip the public of their rights and to manipulate (see the vanishing public domain, and the erosion of the copyright clause of the constitution) to their benefit at the expense of the public.
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 9:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
How long have you been eating your own turds? If ten years then why not 15? See how it works? Your answers create more questions.
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Stuart, 10 Mar 2011 @ 9:16am

Re: Re: Re:
I am thinking that you are an alien sent from Europa to addle our minds with nonsensical drivel till our brains drip from our ears. At which time your buddies will come with straws and suck out our brains for their sustenance.
We should put in a little effort to see who is behind this "Anonymous Coward".

Or maybe we do not have to fully investigate everyones thoughts. Come up with some evidence or STFU.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 9:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
..and how did the librarian find you? Did you start an online logo business?
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The eejit (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 9:52am

Re: Re: Re: eReaders
My Kindle kept the fire going for a good minute, I'll have you know!
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Nina Paley (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 9:58am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Good sleuthing, Sherlock! There's no way she could have found me without me contacting/recruiting/brainwashing her first. I mean, how could she have known I was both a graphic artist and a critic of DRM? As a covert operative, I keep a very low profile. Oh wait.
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vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: eReaders
"My Kindle kept the fire going for a good minute, I'll have you know!"

Real books can do better without the toxic fumes...
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
When it comes to copyright infringement, there's always a conspiracy. It's in the damn word: consPIRACY
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Let see, I found some interesting quotes from Matt Goins:

"Matt Goins's quote comparing the Democrats to "the mafia without the killings" referred to the Democratic Party and their supporters' harassment of petition circulators. We were all threatened at one point. Goins was once told that he would be "put on a blacklist" while he was petitioning.

My quote, "I'm glad America is hated. I think the U.S. should shut down all its military bases abroad," was in the context of Conniff's laments about the U.S.'s standing in the world. I was simply making the point that regardless of whether Bush or Kerry was in office, we would be doing things that people should hate us for."

From 2004, but seems pretty agressive.

It is pretty hard to figure out, as there are a couple of relatively well known Matt Goins (one a photographer of horses) so it makes it hard to see where he shows up. The only thing on his website is a hater comment on facebook.

What I do find interesting is that everything about him (what little there is) says "technologist Matthew Goins". It's almost amusing that everyone is working from the same press release, I guess.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
You're painfully dense.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:10am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
To be fair, it's all they have left, really.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
You aren't answering my question. Beyond the obvious shared purpose of the ALA and Matt, what is the point of your question?
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
But they're certainly not an advocacy group for anti-copyright raporist extremism.

Awww. When I read that I thought it said "raptorist" and got excited.

An advocacy group devoted to copyright abolition involving the feeding of copyright maximalists to hungry velociraptors.

So who's in?
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JEDIDIAH, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:33am

Get the Narn Bat Squad
...no. I just think you completely misjudge librarians as a group. This sort of thing is not out of character at all and there are plenty of librarians that are just as "tech geeky" as anyone here.

They certainly understand and appreciate the implications of technology and politics as it applies to the dissemination of information.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
The questions are about the group and how it was created (and it's appearance of tied to the anti-copyright community).

The question would did this librarian come up with the idea and go find a technology partner, or did the technology partner and his anti-copyright friends go find an outspoken librarian (from Matt's town) to front for their group?

The website was only created a short time ago. The librarian previous to this had really no web profile I could find. Suddenly, she is a poster child for the anti-copyright movement on e-books? Suddenly she can find the most agressive anti-copyright cartoonist on the planet to make a logo?

Again, if this was a pro-copyright group, Mike would be out there with all sorts of astroturfing claims and "apparent links". On the surface, it appears to be a group created by anti-copyright people to fight a fight that librarians didn't even know about. That would be astroturfing, no?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
All without capitalizing a full word. Damn RD, you are moving forward. Are the meds working out?

Too bad that rather than addressing the question, you just use it as a reason to spew some anti-corporate, anti-copyright rhetoric that even Mike won't bother to use anymore.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Nope. I am asking the painful question. Why Nina out of millions of people capable of making a logo? Does Nina perhaps know Matt? Perhaps one of the backers of the group is more in the "freetard revolution" and knew that dragging Nina in would lead to exposure here and on her site?

That would be enough of a smell for Mike to go nuclear on a pro-copyright group. Why not ask the same questions about anti-copyright groups?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Oh, yeah, the black panthers want their logo back:

http://thyblackman.com/2011/02/11/black-power/

;)
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Matt Goins, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:45am

Who I am
Hi, I'm Matt Goins, and I mostly do web development and consulting on a freelance basis. I am an "open source type" or whatever the AC above said.

I am personally against copyright, but I don't think you have to be against copyright to be against DRM.

DRM is *much, much* worse than copyright, but that's just my opinion.

It sucks that some of the anonymous posters here consider this "astroturfing", but since it's a project run by just a tiny group of people, that might be a valid thing to label it.

I hope we have enough astroturf to carpet the whole globe with anti-DRM sentiment! ;)
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Matt Goins, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:52am

Who I am
Oh, and by the way I did say the thing about comparing the Democrats to the mafia, but in context it was a joke. We all had a good laugh. I regret saying it to a reporter though.

I was in college and had never talked to the media before, so I wasn't really thinking about what I was saying. Sorry if it offends anyone.

A very angry man on the street who was a democrat did tell me he was going to put me on a blacklist that year though, and he seemed serious enough. Hopefully he forgot after he walked away ;)
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Matt Goins, 10 Mar 2011 @ 10:56am

Who I am
Oh, right and one more thing, which is the "I'm glad America is hated" quote was Bill Linville, not me. If you re-read that article it's fairly clear. I am not glad America is hated, I think that sucks.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 11:10am

Re: Who I am
Thanks for showing up Matt. Hopefully I didn't get things too incorrect when I was poking about the interwebz for info above. One thing that probably should be hilighted:

"I am personally against copyright, but I don't think you have to be against copyright to be against DRM."

This is why all that AC chicken or the egg nonsense is bullshit. This isn't about copyright in the strictest of senses. It's about DRM on library books....
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 11:25am

Re: Re: Re:
If Jesus was a Jew, how come he has a Puerto-Rican name?
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Mike Masnick (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 11:47am

Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
***** checking Anti-TechDirt Keyword-of-the-Day Desk Calendar� *****

Oh man. We may have to sell that in our next RtB offering...
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 12:55pm

Re: Re: Who I am
DRM is just a process by which rights granted under copyright are sold. When you remove the physical carrier (paper) and move to a completely digital model, there are other ways that you can sell or license things that are well within copyright law. DRM is a tool for the enforcement of the rights granted.

DRM would not exist without copyright, as there would be no law to support it.

Matt, welcome to the party. Would you care to explain how Nina Paley happened to get involved, and perhaps a little about how your group started up?

Thanks :)
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The eejit (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: eReaders
I love the smell of silicon in the morning.
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The eejit (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 12:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Who I am
They started up, I guess, in direct response to the bullshit HarperCollins tried on libraries with Mission Impossible-style exploding ebooks.

Just a hunch.
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Modplan (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 1:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Who I am
DRM would not exist without copyright, as there would be no law to support it.

Then explain how DRM existed before the DMCA.
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Chosen Reject (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 1:35pm

Re: eReaders
I bought a kindle within one day I had already paid for it with all the free books I "bought" with it. (For the copyright whores among us, I didn't pirate a single book). It's incredible how many public domain books are out there. Granted, I wasn't much of a reader until recently so your family member might have already read all the public domain books he/she wanted to. But even if I could have bought the books at $2 each, the Kindle has already paid for itself.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 1:35pm

I don't get this. Libraries are currently using DRM all over this country with such technology as OverDrive. In fact I am considering pulling my support for local libraries because my tax dollars are going to the "rental" model of mp3s that the library pays for. I want no part of supporting a library that then supports DRM through proxy.
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Modplan (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 1:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
That would be enough of a smell for Mike to go nuclear on a pro-copyright group. Why not ask the same questions about anti-copyright groups?

Because 2 second Google searches clearly showed that such relationships do not have any indication of suspicious activity? Because everyone involved has been pretty up front about their relationships to each other? Perhaps because Nina is already well known here to both Techdirt readers and Mike?

How about your questions being pointless inferring and shit stirring in an attempt to make some vague point that contradicts clear evidence like now RIAA employees changing bills in the middle of the night against artists favour and the general suspicion that should arise from private companies wanting even greater copyright protection than we already have. Is that a good enough answer to your pointless attention seeking?
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 1:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Count me in if you do.
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Jeremy7600 (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 1:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
http://alycia.brokenja.ws/

Try fucking again. Harder next time. Try fucking AND try again.

(This is in response to the libriarian not having a web profile you could find. Her site goes back to 2009)
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Jeremy7600 (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 2:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Less black power, more gonzo, imho

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzo_journalism
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 3:00pm

Re:
Astroturfing?

You mean like yours here?
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The eejit (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 3:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
So you're saying the corporations own the government? Sweet! Where do I shoot them to kill?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 3:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Do they pay overtime to you?
God is not 5 yet, I will have to read all that crap you put out for your master.
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The eejit (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 3:04pm

Re:
So, because they were following that law as written, it's their fault. That's akin to saying in a rape case that 'the girl asked for it'. IT's just. Not. SMART.
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Nina Paley (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 3:13pm

Update: Authors Against DRM
Update: we've added an Authors Against DRM graphic, again by popular demand (from authors).
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 3:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Who I am
Umm, we had copyright laws before DMCA.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 4:25pm

I know you're working on .svgs, but would it be possible to get .pngs that don't have the weird artifacts on the bottom and left edges? (The top-left corner of the first R in 'reader', and the bottom edge of the D in 'drm'; as well as the top-left corner of the A in 'author'.)
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Modplan (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 4:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who I am
And before the DMCA when did they explicitly protect or enforce DRM? And please back up the assertion that without copyright law, DRM would cease to exist. Considering examples like Sony rootkit which go far beyond what copyright law allows, it's pretty obvious DRM would not only exist when backed by law.

DRM is just a process by which rights granted under copyright are sold.

DRM is a technical measure to restrict the usage of something. That's it. It can and has been used to enforce a number of restrictions that bare little relation to any rights that could be deemed reasonably granted by copyright.
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Any Mouse (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 4:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Stop. Take a deep breath and relax. Now, take off the tinfoil hat, and repeat after me: 'There does not always have to be a 'why' for deciding on an artist out of millions of choices. There does not always have to be a conspiracy just because diverse groups who actually agree on something band together so their voices can be heard.'
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Esahc (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 5:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Please do
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Chris in Utah (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 5:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Yeah that defiantly a keeper!
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Chris in Utah (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 5:37pm

Re: Re:
When it boils down to choice Hehas a point eegit. There are some laws I dare say scream to be disobeyed.
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vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
"Less black power, more gonzo, imho"

I thought it was the Soviet fist myself.
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vivaelamor (profile), 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: eReaders
"I love the smell of silicon in the morning."

I know that one well. I have an Nvidia graphics chip in my laptop.
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libelle, 10 Mar 2011 @ 6:55pm

librarian here
Hey I'm a librarian and I'm pretty against this. This is about preserving old power structures - something every old media company is trying to do - and retaining their power. My workplace is keen to invest in digital media for our users, but so far no one has really stepped up and offered something we can use. Traditionally, we're a small market so I suppose it's just not a priority.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Mar 2011 @ 11:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You're Winning!
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G Thompson (profile), 11 Mar 2011 @ 12:23am

I was trying to create a "Trolls against DRM" graphic but strangely I kept getting Divide by Zero and other Logic errors.

hmmmmm
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The eejit (profile), 11 Mar 2011 @ 3:03am

Re:
Hey, I'm a Troll Druid, I'll have you know! And I'm against DRM!
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Richard (profile), 11 Mar 2011 @ 5:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
Taken as a whole, the question remains: Is this a librarian group run for and by librarians for librarians, or is it a front group for anti-copyright activists?
All librarians are, by definition, anti-copyright activists.
Their job is to freely share copyrighted material to readers who would otherwise have to pay for their own copy - thus acting in opposition to the purposes of copyright.
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Joe News, 11 Mar 2011 @ 7:17am

Re: Re:
I'm a 6th level cleric, and I'm against DRM!
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Mar 2011 @ 4:41pm

Re: Re: Re:
I think we would pro and anti camps can reach an agreement here if they make the effort to be at all reasonable.

We can all have what we want from this
and the solution is easy

We should change the name of DRM.

Ok, so it has been tried before but DCE (Digital Consumer Enablement)had the problem of insanity to surmount unlike my suggestions:
FTW or ROFL

No one is against FTW or ROFL so we could all accept it and not have so much of this argumentation.

PR consultant for ROFL FTW!
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vivaelamor (profile), 12 Mar 2011 @ 7:23am

Re: Re: eReaders
"Granted, I wasn't much of a reader until recently so your family member might have already read all the public domain books he/she wanted to."

She is aware of Project Gutenberg, but wanted to read books by a specific author.
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Jose_X, 12 Mar 2011 @ 7:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Logo by Nina
>> AC, you flatter me! You make me feel powerful...mysterious...dangerous. Your fantasies are kind of hot.

Those are roasting circuits heard in the background.

Artificial Intelligence is no match for an artist.
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Karl (profile), 13 Mar 2011 @ 7:21pm

Re:
I was trying to create a "Trolls against DRM" graphic but strangely I kept getting Divide by Zero and other Logic errors.

Hey, I'm a troll against DRM, and I just OH SHI-
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