Some Free Letter-Writing Advice For America's Toughest Sheriff

from the there,-fixed-that-for-you dept

Mon, Mar 21st 2011 11:37am — Marcus Carab

Everyone, no matter how great they might think they are, can benefit from the services of a good editor, especially when they are writing an important document. Say, for example, you were self-proclaimed "America's Toughest Sheriff" and everybody-else-proclaimed "Kind Of A Dick" Joe Arpaio (sheriff for Maricopa County, Arizona), and you had just used Craigslist to catch and arrest two literal dogfuckers before they could get down to their despicable business (thanks to BigKeithO for sending this in). Naturally you would be appreciative of Craigslist for helping you find these people and prevent any pooch-porking, so you might decide to write CEO Jim Buckmaster a nice thank you letter. Unfortunately, without proper editing, that letter might instead accidentally convey the ridiculous notion that you are actually angry at Craigslist for being so useful, and that you believe it contributes to the problem of bestiality. It might even come close to suggesting that you would rather these mutt-divers keep talking about bending Rover over but do it behind closed doors—and that would be downright insane.

Such a letter, it seems, has just been written [pdf]. For the public good, I am providing my editing services free of charge to Sheriff Arpaio, in order to clarify what I assume was his intended point, since shaming Craigslist for helping you get doggy-diddlers off the street is obviously nonsensical. Sheriff Arpaio's complete letter follows, with my recommended edits marked in bold or strikethrough.

Dear Mr. Buckmaster:

Maricopa County Sheriff's Office detectives conducted an undercover investigation that spanned several months during 2010 and 2011. This investigation resulted in the arrest of two individuals for conspiracy to commit bestiality. There is an ongoing investigation of several others. Craigslist provided the forum for these individuals to post, in a very blatant manner, their intentions. We are able to locate and communicate with these suspects using Craigslist. Thank you.

During the course of the investigation numerous other posts were discovered in the Personals sections of "men seeking men" and "casual encounters". These posts included specific description of criminal acts. They were often accompanied by graphic photographs of a fully nude male in various pornographic situations. This constitutes excellent evidence for the State. Again, thank you.

It is clear that the "self-policing" protocol Craigslist relies upon to prevent this activity is inadequate, but its mere existence is already going above and beyond your legal duty. ~~While~~ Not only is Craigslist ~~may~~ not be committing a criminal act, you are undoubtedly providing a mechanism to facilitate ~~obvious criminal activity~~ our law enforcement efforts. ~~Simply~~ The fact that you continue posting your "Terms of Use" and providing a mechanism for posters to do YOUR job, ~~and claiming that~~ even though Craigslist is legally "not responsible for the content" is thoroughly ~~disappointing~~ impressive.

As the Sheriff of one of the largest law enforcement agencies in the nation, I, not you, am responsible for ~~the conduct of my entire organization~~ enforcing the law. In this regard, I strongly encourage Craigslist and you, specifically, Mr. Buckmaster, to accept ~~greater responsibility for your organization~~ my personal thanks for helping us get two perverts off the streets.

~~I ask that you re-evaluate the security measures that you utilize to prevent this type of activity and take the necessary action to improve your procedure.~~ Now if you'll excuse me, I have some pink underwear to sell.

Sincerely,
Joseph M. Arpaio
Sheriff

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

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Filed Under: craigslist, evidence, joe arpaio
Companies: craigslist

105 Comments

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Pickle Monger (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 11:40am

Uh-huh...
Yeah... good luck with that...
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 11:41am

Sheriff Joe would also like to serve you a plate of the dog food he feeds his prisoners, while gloating that his dogs do eat better than that.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 11:47am

Uh...what just happened here? Random poking fun at people?

Ok, cool. Can we get back to the technological dirt now?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 11:48am

Lame
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Christopher Weigel (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 11:54am

Re:
Hardly "random". Eventually, sitting here saying over and over again "hey, Craigslist is getting shit from law enforcement for facilitating their jobs" gets old. So no, not random, and very tech-relevant.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 11:54am

Bravo
I applaud your excellent editing skills Mr Carab. I must ask my fellow readers though, am I the only one who read through that twice in order to read both the original and the edited letter without clicking through?

With regards to the sheriff, how can people actually come to the conclusion that craigslist is bad that soon after using it for the forces of good? I will never understand these law enforcement types (officers, sheriffs, attorney generals, etc). I think they must watch too much mainstream news on the TV so they actually believe that 'teh interwebs' and technology are bringing about the world apocalypse here in 2012 unless they can manage to tame it.

Average confused law person: "Wait, what is that you say? Google is coming out with a new service? You must run for your lives! I will protect you by sending them menacing letters asking them to go far beyond the scope of the law. Everybody knows that this technology corrupts the youth of America! *mumbles* now if I can just get the news to stop showing that crime happens everyone will believe I am the best at my job evar! */mumbles*"
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Jay (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:14pm

Dammit!
Why can't I vote on a story being funny!

Oh, and real men must wear pink.

Next time, he's selling ballerina outfits.
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cjstg (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:17pm

editing
i like the sentiment, however...

when this post went through the rss feed all of the text was showing, including the struck text. at first glimpse it appeared that your new letter made no sense whatsoever. now that i read it on this page it makes a little more sense. in terms of dealing with sheriff joe: you might as well slam your head against the wall several times. it might not fix the situation, but it will feel better than trying wrap your head around joe logic.
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Anonymous Poster, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:17pm

I hope that's the last time I ever read the word "dogfucker" on this site.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:18pm

Re:
Yah well in an ideal world, we wouldn't even need that word :)
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Anonymous a-hole, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:18pm

The reply
Dear Sheriff Arpaio:

Some asshole is writing stupid letters to me and signing your name to them.

Sincerely,

Jim Buckmaster
President and CEO, Craigslist
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RD, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:21pm

sh*t or get off the pot
Hey sheriff bumfuck, Craigslist doesnt exist TO DO YOUR JOB FOR YOU. If you cant or wont, then please vacate office and let someone in who has a fucking CLUE.

Sincerely,

Every Citizen of this great country
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SomeGuy (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:23pm

Re: Bravo
With regards to the sheriff, how can people actually come to the conclusion that craigslist is bad that soon after using it for the forces of good?

Imagine a newsletter set up and distributed secretly with the express purpose of arragning criminal acts. Even if the police get ahold of this document and use it to track down criminals, isn't the newsletter itself bad? Despite it being used for good, none of the evil would have happened without the newsletter.

Imagine a seedy bar where patrons are able to congregate for less-than-legal activities. Even if the cops are able to steak-out the place and catch criminals, isn't the bar it'self bad? None of the evil would have happened if there wasn't a site set up to commit the acts.

That's how cops can take a good thing like Craigslist and only see the bad.
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WDS (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:24pm

Missed Opportunity
The good sheriff could of done society a favor if he had just used Craigslist to convince them that the "Real Turn-on" was oral sex with a pit bull.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re: Bravo
"...none of the evil would have happened without the newsletter."
LOL
I envy your naivete. I too was once as ignorant about how the world works as you appear to be.

Not to worry--with any luck you'll survive the process of becoming educated in that regard.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:30pm

Anyone else think Techdirt has taken a serious downturn by letting the comment clowns do the posting?
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re: Bravo
The newsletter is neutral, it's just a tool. The act is bad.

The bar is neutral, it's just a place. The act is bad.
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Howard the Duck, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:31pm

Hey mister
That's funny right there.
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rama dharma, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:32pm

dogs
are you kidding?
this is what the worlds tuffest sheriff is spending tax money on?
there are no drug dealers? no murderers? no rapists? no illegals?

once again, i am confused by the priorites of my government.
rama
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Ooops. Never mind, re-read that for context and it is, in fact, insightful.

My bad.
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Huph, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:33pm

Something about these sorts of claims that hosting sites aren't responsible for third-party behavior seems off. I'm not saying they should be responsible, but why doesn't this safe harbor extend to physical places?

Let me explain, and this is a totally true story, I worked in a bar where people were selling cocaine out of the bathrooms. When the police cracked down, you'd better believe they put it on our shoulders to police the behavior of our patrons in that regard, or else the bar would be shut down.

Same principle in regards to serving drinks. If a person becomes intoxicated and hurts/injures somebody or themselves, every bar/establishment that the person entered becomes responsible for his intoxicated state, regardless of whether he was "drunk" when he left a particular bar. The only way to safeguard against such accusations is to wholly refuse to serve the person when they entered, but if they weren't visibly intoxicated (nevermind that they're going to bars IN ORDER to get drunk) then on what grounds can you refuse service?

And really I shouldn't say it falls on the bar's shoulders, in reality the BARTENDERS are often held responsible even though they're often only fulfilling the requirements of their employment.

I'm not saying any of this makes sense. I think personal responsibility should fall on the shoulders of the individual.
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DH's Love Child (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:33pm

Re: Re: Bravo
Both analogies fail.

This is more akin to a bar where most people go and enjoy themselves, but some of the ladies are there to make a buck. They advertise their, um, wares and a fellow takes her up on it and they go do the deed in his car in the parking lot.. or at a nearby hotel.
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Greg G (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:37pm

Hmmm
"Say, for example, you were self-proclaimed "America's Toughest Sheriff" and everybody-else-proclaimed "Kind Of A Dick" Joe Arpaio (sheriff for Maricopa County, Arizona)...

Who is "everybody else?" Not everyone thinks he's "kind of a dick." In fact, on the linked wikipedia page, where it mentions a recall effort, 75% opposed it, and his favorable rating was 65%.

And even if a lot of those people think he's a dick, he's mostly being a dick towards criminals.

If you live in AZ and don't want to end up in Tent City, it's simple: Obey the law! Don't commit a crime! It really is that easy, people.

As for the letter he sent to Craigslist.. ok, I disagree with the short-sightedness and the failure to realized that sites like Craigslist can, and do, help law enforcement solve crimes and get the "pooch-porkers" (and worse, because as disgusting as it is, there are worse criminals than the ones that want to fondle Fido) off the streets and into his prison.

Note to the the cell/tent-mates of the doggy diddlers: Do NOT dress up as McGruff the Crime Dog at the prison Halloween party this year.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:41pm

Re: Hmmm
Who is "everybody else?" Not everyone thinks he's "kind of a dick." In fact, on the linked wikipedia page, where it mentions a recall effort, 75% opposed it, and his favorable rating was 65%.

Yeah okay - it's technically not 'everybody' or even, in terms of polls, the majority. But given that the linked Wikipedia page also lists those who have opposed him as "Amnesty International,[45] the American Civil Liberties Union, the Arizona Ecumenical Council, the American Jewish Committee,[46] and the Arizona chapter of the Anti-Defamation League" and also that he is under investigation for abuse of power by the FBI, DOJ and Federal Grand Jury, it seemed like a fair choice of phrase.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:41pm

Re: Bravo
I believe you're confusing the conclusion "Craigslist is bad" with "Craigslist is a great target dummy for shameless self-promotion."
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:43pm

Re: Re: Hmmm
Oh jeez... you get a blue box now too?

Mike, are you losing your grip?
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CommonSense (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:45pm

Re: Re:
Hell, for 20 bucks I'll call the guy a chicken fucker!!
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
We only get a blue box on posts of which we are the author.

And please, feel free to ignore my posts. I won't be offended and it's much, much easier than whining all the time.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
We only get a blue box on posts of which we are the author.

And please, feel free to ignore my posts. I won't be offended, and it's much, much easier than whining all the time.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:48pm

Re: Re: Bravo
You are confusing the tool somebody uses for something, and the act itself. Police use the tools that criminals use all the time to catch the criminals. This is like saying that if a thief broke into your house with a hammer, the sheriff would use that hammer (say fingerprints on it) to catch the thief, and then send a letter to the manufacturer of the hammer saying that they need to police how people are using the hammer. It is simply not their job and they are well within the law to not do so.

Craigslist already goes out of their way to help beyond what the law requires. As Marcas points out, they should be being thanked.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:51pm

Re: Re: Re:
License and registration ..

Btw, did you know that those were his real life parents in the van? They had absolutely no clue what he was going to say either.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
Oh, shut up, TAM. How come you came back, anyway?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 12:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
You are way to easy to make fun of. Here's a hint. A sense of humor is best developed after you leave school.
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FormerAC (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:02pm

Re: Hmmm
If you live in AZ and don't want to end up in Tent City, it's simple: Obey the law! Don't commit a crime! It really is that easy, people.

Riiight. Everyone breaks the law. We have too many of them for you not to accidentally break a few.

"It is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law or regulation of any state or any foreign law."

So its a Federal crime to have anything to do with any fish, wildlife or plant that is illegal anywhere in the world. Good luck with that ...
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
Heh. So, I was supposed to interpret your comments as jocular and comedic, was I? Let's have a look:

Anyone else think Techdirt has taken a serious downturn by letting the comment clowns do the posting?

and

Oh jeez... you get a blue box now too? Mike, are you losing your grip?

If that's your sense of humour, I think you're the one who needs to do some developing...
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Charlie Potatoes, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:09pm

The Age of Consent
Ok, can the Sheriff's Office tell me the age of consent for Doggy Love? Is it in human years or does a three-year-old bitch qualify as an adult? Are Chihuahuas and Great Danes treated equally under the law? Obviously Mad Joe and his Poodle Posse are on top of this, having investigated one case over a span of 'several months'. I am going to assume that dog fucking in Arizona is of mammoth proportions. The Sheriff and his highway men must have some incentive for spending their valuable time on protecting the virtue of canines. This is time taken away from patrolling the highways of Arizona appropriating all loose cash from any perpetrator possessing said cash while in transit, for they are obviously in the process of dealing drugs. Who but a drug dealer carries money? Way to go, Joe.... who know, there may be a spot open on the ticket in '12.. Palin/Arpaio is beginning to sound very attractive to me.
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crade (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:16pm

Re: Re: Hmmm
Isn't looking like you might not be caucasian illegal there now?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
Actually, none of it was humor. Again, something you will figure out as you grow up.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
Oh now I get it. I misread your comment about humour. Don't wory though, the ability to communicate clearly is something you'll figure out as you grow up. The ability to not be an asshole, on the other hand, might take some practice.
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The Baker, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:24pm

Thumbs down
Not to the typical level of Techdirt posts. Not to topic, crude and it is disappointing that Mike let this hit his blog.
Yuck!
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:32pm

Re: Re:
Point being, crass language like 'dogfucker' could have been avoided, and other descriptive terms could have been used. Do we have to resort to using cuss words outside of direct quotations?

Go ahead and think me prudish, but I follow the belief that those that use cuss words in daily dialog don't have the intelligence to use the rest of the English language.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:39pm

Re: Re: Re:
Point being, crass language like 'dogfucker' could have been avoided

You're right, i really should have shown more respect to the dignified institution of Canine Copulation.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:40pm

Re: Thumbs down
How is this not to topic? Techdirt regularly covers these bogus pressure tactics being used against Craigslist and other protected service providers.
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weneedhelp (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:42pm

services of a good editor DEPERATELY NEEDED HERE.
pooch-porking, mutt-divers, and bending Rover over? Really? How old are you?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:42pm

Re: Re:
Yea it's not random, it's normal techdirt. Members bitching at members, non-members bitching at members, members bitching at non-members, and all of the above bitching at trolls they created. It's a really nice place to hang and laugh at people; better than 4chan.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:44pm

Re: services of a good editor DEPERATELY NEEDED HERE.
Hahaha exactly what I though.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
It's okay. I am still trying to figure out how someone who is against copyright and against all that stuff ends up working for a previously bankrupt newspaper. It's incredibly amusing to think of how wonderfully twisted that is. Your living depends on exactly what you hate. Must be hell.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
Correction: A previously bankrupt newspaper bought by a new company that is dedicating lots of resources to experimenting with alternative digital revenue streams and innovative advertising solutions. As a designer/copywriter for marketing and sales, I get to help develop brand new projects and business ideas almost every day.

So actually my living depends on exactly what I love, thank you very much.
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Greg G (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:51pm

Re: Re: Hmmm
Fair enough. I just don't think much of the ACLU or Amnesty International, or even the polls, as they are always biased by the way questions are crafted: to elicit responses wanted by whoever is paying for said polls.
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The Baker, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:53pm

Re: Re: Thumbs down
I'll concede that bogus pressure tactics against Craigslist is a past and very valid topic. The primary topic of this post was a showcase for MC's crude whit and humor. Sorry if I sound like a prude but I felt like I had to wash my screen after reading this. I don't expect this on TechDirt.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Thumbs down
That's fine. Just be sure to turn your screen off first or you might get a nasty shock.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:58pm

Something is amiss in Techdirtland....
.... if you have almost as many blue box posts defending the post as there are other comments.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:01pm

Re: services of a good editor DEPERATELY NEEDED HERE.
"pooch-porking, mutt-divers, and bending Rover over? Really? How old are you?"

Exactly. I specifically recommended "Fido-Fucker" and "Giving the dog a bone", which are far more mature terms....
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another mike (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:07pm

Re: sh*t or get off the pot
Cosigned by all of us in Maricopa County.
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DMNTD, 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:25pm

comon...
I guess you could consider that invisible standard flag you prudes keep waving somehow relevant. I won't though, the author obviously takes a leaner stand on the bullshit that coincides with a lot of the news you are hearing and is not ashamed to reveal it in its raw state.
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weneedhelp (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:26pm

Re: Something is amiss in Techdirtland....
He's mister:
I've heard this story a dozen times and never, ever, ever seen it confirmed. It's always just at the insistence of the parent.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110106/01591712546/report-claims-discredited-study-that- linked-vaccines-to-autism-wasnt-just-mistake-outright-fraud.shtml#c937

So because the Great Marcus Crab has never seen it, it cant possibly be true, or its just the imagination of parents. That's when I realized he is just a fancy troll.
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cjstg (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:27pm

Re: dogs
this is pretty tame stuff for sheriff joe. most of the time he's out harassing minorities, arresting newspaper publishers, and thwarting terror threats that don't exist.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
More power to you. But really, you are in the old world news business, a service that is becoming more and more free every day with citizen journalists taking over and doing the reporting. Postmedia made the remarkable move of buying up a whole chain of dead tree newspapers, most of which have run out of money are least once or twice along the way.

I just think it is really amusing to see you posting on a site that slags the dead tree media on a regular basis. Does your boss know what you do on company time?
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
Techdirt slags the dead tree media when they do dumb things, as do I. Mike has also said many times that there is still a place for the talented people and even the organizations of newspapers if they can find a way to adapt - another thing I agree with. If you look at the history of posts by me, you'll notice that I've dedicated a lot of time to pointing out newspapers doing things right, and ideas for how others could follow their lead:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100330/1003258786.shtml

http://www.techdirt.com/artic les/20100201/0354087988.shtml

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100309/1552478485.shtml

I could never claim to be sure about the future of the National Post. I'm in no position to make that assessment. I simply know that they are experimenting and being innovative, and that's what I want to be involved in. So yeah - nearly everyone I work with knows what I post on techdirt. Most of them find it pretty interesting.

Anyway, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the topic of this post, so if you want to engage in more personal attacks on me and my career, I dunno, Twitter me or something.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:53pm

Re: Re: dogs
Do not worry about existence and have faith because he will find them regardless of fact.
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FuzzyDuck, 21 Mar 2011 @ 2:57pm

Bestiality Illegal
Kind of strange that s*cking off a horse would be crime, but killing it to eat it is perfectly legal. Wonder which of these two acts the horse would find more objectionable?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 3:18pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm
I simply know that they are experimenting and being innovative, and that's what I want to be involved in.

I think Mike would call that "flailing about uselessly" or something of similar nature. He would likely go on to discuss buggy whips and such.

You know how it goes.

What does it have to do? Nothing, just an amusing aside as we all get an better idea of the "do as I say" mentality that permeates Techdirt. Perhaps Mike will invite you over to watch a Hollywood movie at his place. You know, movies from the movie people he laments on an almost daily basis.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 3:19pm

Re: services of a good editor DEPERATELY NEEDED HERE.
He's about 25. Remarkably, he still writes like a college student.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 3:28pm

Re: Re: services of a good editor DEPERATELY NEEDED HERE.
TAM, it seems you are my biggest fan, and I just want you to know how special that makes me feel.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 3:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Thanked for advertising prostitutes and other illegal acts. Definitely. Don't you feel safer? I hope so. You should. That false sense of security is cool isn't it? Just keep kidding yourself that Craigslist is the best thing ever... Once you stop trolling and see those ads where your children are, then you might be enlightened on others' perspective about these things. Until then, it's too much to ask.

I'd much rather have a clean Craigslist then one supposedly "helping" law enforcement. If there was nothing posted there, there wouldn't be a problem. I can hear it... "but but but, they'd go elsewhere!!!one" Where? Name alternatives. Local ones. Good ones. Your local paper? They won't advertise crackwhores. If they do, move. It's common sense that seems to lack here. Why do you think every anonymous commenters are referred to as "cowards" and "trolls"?
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 3:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
A lame reply to an idiotic action. You showed your true colors at least.
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Chargone (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 3:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
not really, it's more a case of respect for your readers and platform.

there's usually a polite way of saying most things without resorting to the hyper formal, at least.

personally i'm not really going to object, (and do find it to be amusing and certainly fit the situation) but the point is valid.
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doughless (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 3:59pm

Re: Re: Re:
I follow the belief that people who are offended by words they arbitrarily label as cuss words are childish.

On the flip side, I very rarely use them in public, because regardless of what I think of others' beliefs on this subject, I still try to show them respect.
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Any Mouse (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 4:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Differences are that the local paper monitors all adverts before they are published. Craigslist does not. Nor are they required to by any law.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 4:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
"Local paper?" What the hell is that?
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 4:25pm

Re: Re: Bravo
You're referring to Sheriff Joe "Kind of a Dick" Arpaio, right?
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 4:31pm

Re:
God knows I do. I hope to rectify the situation with several posts of my own. I'll try to work the phrase "dogfucker" into most of them.
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btr1701 (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 5:30pm

Re: Re: Bravo
> Even if the cops are able to steak-out the
> place and catch criminals

Cops don't use steak-outs anymore. Too expensive. They use hamburger or chicken.
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Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2011 @ 5:34pm

Re: Re:
Yeah! Who said members aren't allowed to troll.
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btr1701 (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 5:45pm

Re: Re: Re:
> Go ahead and think me prudish, but I follow
> the belief that those that use cuss words in
> daily dialog don't have the intelligence to
> use the rest of the English language.

That doesn't indicate prudishness on your part so much as an almost willful stupidity, equating one's word choice with innate intelligence. Some of the most brilliant wordsmiths in history have also used vulgarities with both frequency and panache in their daily speech.

You apparently need to disabuse yourself of the notion that merely having aesthetic tastes different than yours indicates a lack of intelligence.

It does not. All it indicates is that their aesthetic tastes are different than yours. Nothing more.
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btr1701 (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 5:51pm

Re: Responsibility
> If a person becomes intoxicated and hurts/
> injures somebody or themselves, every bar/
> establishment that the person entered becomes
> responsible for his intoxicated state, regardless
> of whether he was "drunk" when he left a
> particular bar.

Responsible how? Criminally responsible? Civilly responsible? Which state are you in? I'd like to see the state's code section which puts full responsibility on the Olive Garden when someone just had one glass of wine there with dinner, then heads out to some bar and gets totally plastered and irons someone out five hours later.

If such a statute actually exists, it's ripe for about a half-dozen constitutional challengnes.
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btr1701 (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 5:53pm

Re: Hmmm
> And even if a lot of those people think he's a
> dick, he's mostly being a dick towards criminals.

It isn't even that so much that pisses a lot of non-Arizonans off. It's that he's dick toward illegal aliens. He actually enforces the law, and when it comes to illegals, that makes a lot of people mad.
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Greg G (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 6:33pm

Re: Re: Hmmm
It's that he's dick toward illegal aliens. He actually enforces the law...

Agreed. The ones that get mad are the idiots that like their tax money paying for illegal aliens to get all sorts of benefits. I prefer to decide for myself who gets my charity money.
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G Thompson (profile), 21 Mar 2011 @ 11:27pm

Re: Bestiality Illegal
Whats with the asterix?

and Meat is murder... tasty tasty 'good with ketchup' murder.
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Planespotter (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 4:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Yes, yes, yes... clean up all the websites, BBS, newspapers, etc, etc and all the bad things in the world will go away.

No more paedophile rings/networks, no more prostitution, blah, blah, blah.

ooops! Sorry just went off on a complete fruitloop there!

These things happen, you cannot stop them from happening no matter how much you think you can, even in the biggest police state where everyone is monitored 24/7/365 bad things will happen.
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John Duncan Yoyo, 22 Mar 2011 @ 5:19am

When did they hire James O'Keefe as an editor?
When did Techdirt hire James O'Keefe as an editor? The corrected letter sure looks like his video work.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2011 @ 5:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
We know you're a fruitloop. The idea is not to pretend they don't happen or to try to wipe them from existence, it's to give them the less channels possible to advertise. If you limit their actions, the ratio will go down, even if you like to pretend it won't.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2011 @ 5:54am

Re: Re: Bestiality Illegal
Ketchup?

*mumbles* Philistine.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 6:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The only part of that I heard was "amusing" - thank you!
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SomeGuy (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 6:31am

Re: Re: Re: Bravo
You know this, and I know this, but the people who want to villainize Craigslist don't.
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SomeGuy (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 6:31am

Re: Re: Re: Bravo
You know this, and I know this, but the people who want to villainize Craigslist don't.
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SomeGuy (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 6:34am

Re: Re: Re: Bravo
You are confusing...

Sorry, no; I'm explaining how other people could confuse the tool, since that's what the GP was asking about. I was using Their Voice, but I didn't mean to imply that's a belief I held; sorry it wasn't clear.
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SomeGuy (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 6:37am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
The problem is if you close off the ones you can see they'll just migrate to the ones you can't. It's better to cut them off at the source -- arrest the criminals -- than to pretend you're solving the problem by sweeping it under the rug.
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SomeGuy (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 6:39am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
I'd much rather have a clean Craigslist then one supposedly "helping" law enforcement. If there was nothing posted there, there wouldn't be a problem. I can hear it... "but but but, they'd go elsewhere!!!one" Where? Name alternatives.

You're basically saying you don't care whether it's happening or not as long as you can't see it. The rest of us would rather the problem were visible, so that it can be addressed appropriately, rather than hidden from the authorities.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2011 @ 6:52am

Wow, this really is becoming an echo chamber of fanboys. Self-righteous a-hole fanboys at that.

This post is a complete waste of bits.
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vivaelamor (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 7:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
"Thanked for advertising prostitutes and other illegal acts. Definitely. Don't you feel safer? I hope so. You should. "

How does disallowing the advertising of prostitution make anyone safer?
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 8:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Thanked for advertising prostitutes and other illegal acts. Definitely. Don't you feel safer?

Err, how would this alleged prostitution on Craiglist make me feel "unsafe"?
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2011 @ 8:24am

Re: Re: Bravo
That's too bad. Seedy bars by themselves have never done anything wrong. Neither have newsletters by themselves. They don't commit actions. They're inanimate objects. Many of those less than legal actions would have been committed anyway. The location, no matter how ramshackle and seedy looking, shouldn't matter.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 9:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Trolling? I do not think that word means what you think it means after re-reading my own post. It is quite far from trolling. I never even hurled an insult. If I was trolling, I failed at trolling.

That aside, sweeping the problem under the rug and out of sight just because craigslist is high profile doesn't make it go away. And I am sorry I am not part of those types of groups so I don't really know any of their alternatives. Since you are looking for them though I am sure you could do some searching of your own. I feel no need to search out alternatives for those types of activities, but for other things that I do know about, like legally modding the hardware I bought, I know that if you shut down one source, it moves elsewhere, and is not hard to find once you are in the group.

As a final note, you are the one promoting a false sense of security. With it out in the open, where police can track down criminals, that kind of exemplifies the opposite of a false sense of security. The world you want where you can't see it but it still happens is the false sense of security.
You seem to have gotten both the idea of false security and trolling backwards in one post. Bravo.
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Anonymous Coward, 22 Mar 2011 @ 9:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
And giving them more unsupervised resource help? And which ones that we "can't control" do you refer to?
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SomeGuy (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 9:35am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
It's only unsupervised if you aren't supervising it. By virtue of the fact that Craigslist has lead repeatedly to real arrests, I'd say it's fairly supervised.

And I said "can't see" not "can't control." Either way, the point is you don't know what you don't know, and I'd be doubtful that other avenues aren't available to those who care to take them.
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SomeGuy (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 9:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Because if prostitutes can't advertise, they can't get business, they can't be profitable, and the profession dries up. If prostitution is a safety issue (and some might argue it is) then there you go.

The problem is assuming that "they can't advertise here" means "they can't advertise anywhere," or at least the mistaken belief that you'll be able to stop all advertising everywhere.
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SomeGuy (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 9:39am

Re: Re: Re: Bravo
My point exactly.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 22 Mar 2011 @ 1:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Ah. Thank you for the clarification. If I had reread your post I may have taken better notice of the last line, which should have made it clear enough to me. My apologies.
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Michael, 23 Mar 2011 @ 4:10am

Re:
"Let me explain, and this is a totally true story, I worked in a bar where people were selling cocaine out of the bathrooms. When the police cracked down, you'd better believe they put it on our shoulders"

In a bar, you have a finite area in which to witness these acts. You had direct knowledge of them happening. One-time incidents of a patron being found in a bar with a gram of something in his pocket is not going to get the bar shut down. A booth in the bar being run with the knowledge of the bar owner is a real problem.

When you are talking about a website that allows postings without review, there is no direct knowledge of the actions. Now, you take into account that CraigsList actively searches for and removes or reports illegal activity, they have gone a step beyond. What you are suggesting is that even though they have no knowledge of the behavior, because it happened on their site, it is their fault. Ok - now apply that to your state (I'll say CT because that's where I am). Now, is the state of Connecticut RESPONSIBLE for illegal activity in the state? If so, they could and SHOULD be sued each time a crime is committed - isn't that a bit off?

"If a person becomes intoxicated and hurts/injures somebody or themselves, every bar/establishment that the person entered becomes responsible for his intoxicated state, regardless of whether he was "drunk" when he left a particular bar"

Not sure where you are, but I owned a bar in CT for awhile and can tell you that this is not the case here (and boy, we have draconian dram shop laws here). The liability is much more complex than you have stated and relies heavily on active knowledge of the person being intoxicated when they left your establishment - not when they left the next bar they went to.
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vivaelamor (profile), 23 Mar 2011 @ 4:30am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
"Because if prostitutes can't advertise, they can't get business, they can't be profitable, and the profession dries up."

As you point out, this is a flawed premise. Prostitution was around before Craigslist, but prostitutes were more likely to be walking the streets. Advertising via Craigslist would seem to me to be safer than walking the streets. Prostitution in itself is not a safety issue, but it has a lot of safety issues associated with it. Giving prostitutes more power to choose who they have contact with seems like a better way to deal with some of those issues than banning prostitution, which makes the issues worse for those who ignore the ban.
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vivaelamor (profile), 23 Mar 2011 @ 4:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
"it's to give them the less channels possible to advertise"

In the case of prostitution, how does that make anyone safer? The ones who stop just because they can't advertise on Craigslist are unlikely to be the ones most at risk. Those who don't stop will have less choice in how to advertise, potentially making them less safe.
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vivaelamor (profile), 23 Mar 2011 @ 4:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"You're right, i really should have shown more respect to the dignified institution of Canine Copulation."

I find it ironic that the dignified institution of Canine Copulation is more humorous to me than dogfuckers and I couldn't care less about swearing.
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SomeGuy (profile), 25 Mar 2011 @ 5:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bravo
Whether or not prostitution should be legal is a completely different discussion. This is a "safety issue" only in as much as it's about the police enforcing the laws, and more of that should make people safer, right?
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Jun 2011 @ 10:49pm

sheriff joe
you go sheriff joe, tell it like it is, you are a good man and all of america loves you for doing the good job you are doing, lock all the illegals up and get them out of our country, you are the man, keep up the good work, love ya, a big fan in n.c.
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