TSA Boss: Naked Scanners Are Great At Stopping The Last Attack; Don't Ask About The Next One
from the it's-as-if-he's-not-even-listening dept
Last week, TSA boss John Pistole defended the use of the highly criticized naked scanners:"They are the best possibility we have right now of detecting Christmas Day ... type explosives."That's kind of amusing, since plenty of other reports have noted they wouldn't have actually detected the explosives used there. But, it really highlights the key point, that the TSA is always looking to stop the last attack, not the next attack. It's as if they don't realize that terrorists can adapt. Along those lines, Rep. John Mica pointed out how silly Pistole's argument is:
"The equipment is flawed and can be subverted.... Our staff has subverted it. [TSA Administrator] Pistole said 'GAO is very clever.' Well what the hell does he think a terrorist is?"Pistole's other suggestion was the already panned idea of letting people skip security if they give up a bunch of privacy.
Pistole made the case for a proposed "trusted traveler" program, which allow frequent flyers to provide personal information in order to avoid long airport security lines. Under the proposal, passengers would provide fingerprints, credit information and other personal data. In exchange, they would receive an ID card they could show to bypass security lines on flights.Except, as plenty of people who actually understand security have pointed out, all this really does is change the target. Now terrorists can focus on the people in the trusted traveler program to get a bomb or other weapons through security. It amazes me that someone like Pistole can keep his job when it appears he can't think past each action to the obvious reaction. We want a chess player in charge of security, and it seems like we ended up with a checkers player.
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Filed Under: john pistole, security, tsa
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Naked and handcuffed
Luggage? shipped via ground/sea.
Not fun, but it does stop the attack vectors :)
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Re: Naked and handcuffed
that sort of reactive thinking is the problem.
a plane that doesn't fly can't be hijacked. not only will that stop the next attack, but all other attacks that follow.
and it's a documented fact that terrorists never target any other mode of transportation.
once there is no air travel, all terrorist will immediately renounce terrorism and seek gainful employment in the food service industry.
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Re: Re: Naked and handcuffed
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Re: Re: Re: Naked and handcuffed
Fixed it ...
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Or they counterfiet the Id...
Or they counterfeit the ID card and hack the computer directory to add themselves. As DRM proves, for every system, there is a circumvention.
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Re: Or they counterfiet the Id...
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Re: Re: Or they counterfiet the Id...
And between that and islamic extremists, I guess there's no shortage of loons.
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Re: Planespotter -
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Re: Re: Planespotter -
I hope that typo doesn't turn out to be prophetic.
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Checkers?
Nah, even in checkers good players look several possible moves ahead. They play more like Jeopardy. Only looking at the question at hand, answering it in a way no normal person would and only worry about strategy when it means making sure you have more money then they guy next to you doing the same thing.
At least in Jeopardy that's how it's suppose to be played. The questions aren't customers, the guys next to you aren't fat cats, and when technology comes along and whoops their ass, they don't freak out about it.
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Re: Checkers?
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Re: Re: Checkers?
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Re: Re: Re: Checkers?
Who is a TSA agent?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Checkers?
Who is a TSA agent?"
Oh, I'm sorry. The correct response would be WHAT is a TSA agent....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Checkers?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Checkers?
Who is a TSA agent?"
Oh, I'm sorry. The correct response would be WHAT is a TSA agent....
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Punctuation.
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Re: Checkers?
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Re: Re: Checkers?
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Re: Checkers?
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Re: Checkers?
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"We want a chess player in charge of security, and it seems like we ended up with a checkers player."
At lesat he gets a very big check, mate.
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The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
There is no reasoning, no arguing, no persuading these people: they don't get it, and they're never going to get it. The same can be said for those who support and defend them: they too, are inferior people.
It is a mark of the failure of our society that we permit these inferior people to hold positions of power. This is why I've suggested that intelligence testing be made mandatory for all public officials, with the bar set ever-higher in accordance with the scope of the position. For example, nobody should be eligible to run for the Presidency without a demonstrated IQ of 165. (Yes, yes, I know that IQ testing is fraught with issues, many of them difficult. But so is having an appallingly stupid President, or Senator, or TSA head.)
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Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
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Re: Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
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Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
Wisdom and experience are far more effective in most places.
Or, to put it another way: Craft skills are based on Int, Profession checks are based on Wis. It's true, too.
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Re: Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
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Re: Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
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Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
I've been around people with a low IQ, in my experience they would see the obvious fact that this doesn't work, they probably couldn't give you a reason why but they could tell you it is wrong.
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Re: Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
Congratulations, Atkray, you get to run the TSA for the next two years; Lobo Santo will be the next president and Dark Helmet is the new IP Tzar.
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Re: Re: Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
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Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
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Re: The problem with inferior people like Pistole...
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Cute.
Well, if it's any consolation, at least all this will end in a draw, neither victor or defeated can be claimed.
On topic: Yeah, my doctors say my screening is to benefit me, but study after study shows me they only capture what's already ailing me, not what they can prevent.
I'm still not sure what a finger up my rectum's trying to uncover, but I for one insist the ounce of prevention is doing more harm than the ailment which does not exist.
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Re: Cute.
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Re: Cute.
Either you don't understand what they're doing, or you don't have very good doctors.
What's one of the first things your doctor does when you get a physical? Blood pressure.
Why? Is it because high blood pressure is bad? No, not in and of itself. Hypertension (high blood pressure) is an indicator of several other problems (stroke, heart attack, etc.)
Your doctors should also be asking you questions about your family's health, and then testing for the results. If not, you should find another doctor.
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I see one as slightly more optimistic than the other.
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Re:
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Trusted flyers program
That is total garbage! A program like this CAN work.
Should business people who has proof of residency and work be scrutinized like criminal every time they need to fly? Of course I am talking non-international flights here.
I would still have these passengers walk through metal detectors, just not have to take off their shoes.
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Re: Trusted flyers program
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Re: Re: Trusted flyers program
I personally like the idea of a Safe Traveler List. These few would be frequent fliers. They would still get their bag's x-rayed and walk through the classic (fast) metal detectors. However, a side benefit is that they would (mostly) be seasoned travelers. Thus, a special line for these folks would move quickly, as they all know how to take a laptop out and remove metal from their pockets.
"Trusted Traveler" wouldn't eliminate security inspection for those frequent flyers, it would just de-emphasize them, and process them more quickly, such that additional TSA time and resources could be spent on more likely groups.
As for me, I already had any hint of privacy obviated when I immigrated to the US. They already have my prints, my biometric details, all my biographic history, my education, my marriage, holiday photos (I kid you not), my parents biographic information, my political affiliation, my criminal record, my health status, inoculations, and they took multiple blood tests ostensibly to see if I had AIDS. I figure I don't have much privacy to lose.
The notion that after all that, they can't make a pretty good guess as to whether I would bomb a plane or not is pretty stupid.
PS: I would not.
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Re: Re: Re: Trusted flyers program
What you propose sounds great. A separate line for frequent fliers who give up a little bit a privacy and have an quicker security check. Partially quicker because it is less intensive, i.e. no fondle or scan, and partially faster cause everyone is experienced. The main problem I can foresee with this is how long till the "quick" line is longer than the normal line? I have no data to back this but I imagine most of the people flying at any random time are frequent fliers. I would be surprised to learn that the majority of fliers are, in a random airport at any given moment, are infrequent or casual fliers who only use a plan once or twice a year, and therefore wouldn't want to be on the "Trusted Traveler" list .
But my original point in the post above is the TSA's job is to make life harder for people who want to bomb planes (how affective they are is a whole other post.) If they made a list of people who don't have to be scrutinized I can guarantee that terrorists would make it onto this list. The TSA would then only be making life harder on normal people and giving terrorists a big window to climb in through. Its not like we can trust every TSA agent who has access not to get bribed/blackmailed or the checks in the system to be so good that a terrorist couldn't sneak onto the list, or falsify a pass, or steal someone identity, or steal someones pass, or buy someones pass. /sarc Also people with a clean history never turn out to be terrorists and terrorist profiles are 100%(hell; >50%) accurate /sarc. I mean how long would it take from them saying "if you get access to this line we wont check your shoes or lift you balls" to a terrorist getting access to the line and stuffing his shoes and taint full of c4?
Examples of why not to trust TSA employees not to fuck this up? See the stories on TSA employees stealing boatloads from luggage, or the TSA agent who added his wife to the no fly list (hilarious)
Examples of why a government program will fail at its intended purpose and fail to stop who it is suppose to and interfere with tons of people its not suppose to? See government
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Trusted flyers program
I apologize for the error, it is never my intention to misrepresent taints or any other body minority.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Trusted flyers program
Not exactly what I meant by "still get their bag's x-rayed", but in a world where people want to weaponize their coin purse, I might just drive.
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A good checkers player thinks ahead and builds his strategy on possible and anticipated attacks.. it seems like we ended up with a whack-a-mole player.
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Re:
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Maybe they want to do better inspections, profiling, etc. etc. but the political leaders won't let them.
Maybe they do just what is politically accepted, even though it is not very effective.
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Re:
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Just sayin...
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Time travel
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Re: Time travel
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Qh5+ ?!
Perhaps Pistole -is- a chess player, he's just a really bad one. There's a name, in the chess world, that refers to short-sighted players who do not think past each action and reaction and that's a "patzer". The famous chess quote, "patzer sees check, patzer makes check", has never been so applicable especially off the chess board.
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Actually, TSA is working as designed
If you spend money trying to defend against an attack that never comes you are wasting the taxpayers' money. If you fail to defend against a known attack you are negligent. But if you trowel in mortar to block repeat attacks, you're at least doing "as much as any reasonable person could."
The entire model is broken -- it's not worth spending time trying to tinker with it.
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Screening People Getting _Off_ Trains.
Here are a set of links:
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The fightback against TSA tyranny begins: At last, lawmakers are heeding the call of ordinary Americans to defend them from the TSA's invasive infringements of liberty
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/mar/10/transport-usdomesticpolicy
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Screening of Passengers at Savannah Amtrak Station
http://blog.tsa.gov/2011/02/screening-of-passengers-at-savannah.html
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Don Phillips, TRAINS exclusive: Amtrak police chief bars Transportation Security Administration from some security operations
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/188504.aspx?PageIndex=1
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Why Did TSA Pat Down Kids, Adults Getting Off Train?
http://news.travel.aol.com/2011/02/28/why-did-tsa-pat-down-kids-adults-getting-off-train/
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Breakfa st links: The security-industrial complex
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/9586/breakfast-links-the-security-industrial-com plex/
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Why The TSA Doesn't Work For Trains.
The multiplicity of train stations makes it very difficult to control passengers. This has certain implications-- for example, it is difficult to do the kind of price manipulation which airlines do. A passenger can always buy a ticket from Washington to New York, and get off at Trenton, if the fares should be distorted enough to make that logical. So the fare to Trenton has to be less than or equal to the fare to New York.
Another implication is that a lot of the stations which make the system work are comparatively small and simple compared to the main stations. Passenger railroads sometimes have "flag stops," places where the train stops if there is a passenger to get on or off, but not otherwise. There are stations where the railroad does not have anyone to sell tickets, where you traditionally have to buy a ticket from the conductor after you get on the train and after it is moving again. There are a lot of stations on Amtrak's network where it doesn't have any paid employees. Instead, it has Honorary Stationmasters, railfans who take care of the station, and come in at train time. They get a fine-sounding title, and the right to wear a funny hat, and they generally help out new rail travelers, who might become confused. They can't actually sell tickets, but nowadays a website or an 800 number can do that. Under the circumstances, anything approximating an effective security cordon would be absurd.
In any case, attacks can easily come from outside the train. In West Virginia, in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, mountaineers who resented the railroad used to stand on hilltops with rifles, and shoot down at trains in the valley. Say a range of 200-300 yards, and 200-300 feet down. By the time anyone climbed up the hill, of course, the sniper would be gone.
When the TSA tried to search all the people getting off the train at Savannah, what was happening was that the logic of the train system was forcing the agency into a "Theater of the Absurd." One might very well find that the agents involved were part of a "re-assignment pool," that is, agents who had been removed from regular TSA jobs because there were complaints against them, or something like that. Those are the sort of people who are likely to be available for an impromptu performance.
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Disgusting Patdown
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