TSA Says 'You Might Be A Terrorist If... You Complain About The TSA'

from the seriously-guys? dept

Fri, Apr 15th 2011 6:26pm — Mike Masnick

Ah, the TSA. Apparently among the "behavioral factors" that the TSA uses in determining who might be a criminal or a terrorist is... if you complain about the TSA. I guess that means I'm in line for some extra scrutiny. Honestly, though, this sounds a lot more like punitive action against people who complain, rather than a legitimate characteristic of someone who deserves extra scrutiny. Specifically, one of the factors is if someone is:

"Very arrogant and expresses contempt against airport passenger procedures."

An ACLU person quoted in the article wonders if this violates the First Amendment, in that it's going after someone for expressing their opinion:

"Expressing your contempt about airport procedures -- that's a First Amendment-protected right," said Michael German, a former FBI agent who now works as legal counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. "We all have the right to express our views, and particularly in a situation where the government is demanding the ability to search you."

"It's circular reasoning where, you know, I'm going to ask someone to surrender their rights; if they refuse, that's evidence that I need to take their rights away from them. And it's simply inappropriate," he said.

Honestly, you'd have to think that a real terrorist or criminal, hoping to avoid calling attention to themselves, wouldn't be openly hostile to the search procedure, but would try to be quiet and blend in. Perhaps the TSA will defend this latest ridiculousness by saying it's all okay because it's standard operating procedure.

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Filed Under: behavior, free speech, tsa
Companies: tsa

66 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 15 Apr 2011 @ 6:30pm

Just let them do their jobs
After all, they've caught so many terrorists with these and other methods. From now on I will ask any TSA agent trying to start a conversation with me if they are a SPOT agent and thank them for their hard work and dedication. You should too!
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MrWilson, 15 Apr 2011 @ 6:50pm

TSA strategy is simple. Make air travel as unbearable as possible for as many people as possible so fewer will fly. Thus, the thinking goes, the terrorists will realize that they can't get as high a terrifying bodycount and will move on to targeting something else. Of course the airlines already tried this strategy for years, but it doesn't seem to dissuade passengers from flying.

Scan em naked, grope em, take their bottled water, grope their kids, feed em plastic food, charge for peanuts, steal their luggage, skullfuck their personal dignity, expose their prosthetics, break their colostomy bags, throw away their shampoo bottles... American air travelers are nothing if not masochists.
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Nicedoggy, 15 Apr 2011 @ 6:51pm

I think the government will have a hard time trying to do anything even if it is useful if they continue down that path, they are damaging their public image and probably nobody will trust them to do anything and will move to block anything they try to do.

And it already happen a dozen times already.
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Liz, 15 Apr 2011 @ 6:55pm

There's still plenty of other amendments to the U.S. Constitution. They can't possibly break them all can they?
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CSMcDonald (profile), 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:09pm

Waiting for them to consider submitting quietly and politely to be suspicious behavior that warrants more intrusive checking.
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Atkray (profile), 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:10pm

But wait it gets better
Napolitano wants to unionize the TSA.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:12pm

Re:
Give them enough time, and they'll find a way to break them all at once. Yes, that includes the 18th and 21st.
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:16pm

Re:
I think the government will have a hard time trying to do anything even if it is useful if they continue down that path, they are damaging their public image and probably nobody will trust them to do anything and will move to block anything they try to do.

You assume that public anger or resentment will change anything.
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V, 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:16pm

Goosestepping anyone?
Much like the Nazi Secret Police or the KGB, complaining about or avoiding the Secret Police is nearly an admission of guilt... and worthy of... detention.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:16pm

The first rule of security theater is...
You do not talk about security theater.
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BuzzCoastin, 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:25pm

Is the TSA still part of the Chinese government?
Is the TSA still part of the Chinese government? It has been recently reported that China is locking-up dissident complainers. I wonder if the PRC policy now extends to the TSA; it seems it does.

Good work Comrade Napolitano; Mao would be proud of you.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:29pm

Re: Re:
Good point. It hasn't done anything so far.
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abc gum, 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:33pm

The TSA are clearly retarded
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Apr 2011 @ 7:44pm

It's efficient on the governments part. After they take a crap on the 4th amendment they can "clean up" with the first amendment. Only 25 left to go.
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misterdoug (profile), 15 Apr 2011 @ 10:10pm

It's like those "You might be a redneck" jokes
except not funny.
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misterdoug (profile), 15 Apr 2011 @ 10:27pm

How does the government prioritize problems?
Shouldn't "Transportation Safety" include not getting creamed on the highway by some drunken asshole? That happens about 20,000 times a year -- a 9/11 every two months. For some reason we've never had a multi-billion dollar War On Drunken Assholes. Funny thing.

This kind of makes sense though, because drunk driving deaths don't affect the economy as much as an equivalent number of deaths from (much more spectacular) airplane hijackings. People would be afraid to fly, the air travel industry would collapse, devastating the tourism industry and the businesses that feed off it. The ripple effect would be huge.

It seems plain that the TSA's primary purpose is to protect the economy, not the public. I'm not saying that's a bad goal. Let's just be honest about it. Protecting the economy is a higher priority than protecting the public.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Apr 2011 @ 10:39pm

Re: The first rule of security theater is...
At this point, 'theater' should read 'farce'
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G Thompson (profile), 15 Apr 2011 @ 11:32pm

Re: How does the government prioritize problems?
If the TSA's goal is to protect the US economy, then the TSA has failed dismally and any US citizen who doesn't show contempt for them should be ashamed of themselves.

Though I am not surprised that the TSa state that anyone who shows contempt of them is scrutinised more than normal since the USG themselves classify any country/individual/organisation that queries their international (and domestic) practices and hypocritical stance on Human Rights, Freedom of Expression, Right of Quiet Enjoyment, Right of Religious and Sexual freedom, Democratic ability for a country to set their OWN laws that might be restrictive to US interests (oh the horror) as a form of Terrorism.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Apr 2011 @ 11:49pm

Any real rationale for this wouldn't even make sense. What kind of terrorist is going to make a scene complaining while attempting to bypass security?
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Apr 2011 @ 11:53pm

Terrorists already won. They got American citizens to violate each others' rights - anyone working for the DHS may as well be one in my book.
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The eejit (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 12:31am

Re: Re: How does the government prioritize problems?
I'm half tempted to tell them I'm a Mossad agent with a fake passport next time they try and stop me.
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Nom du Clavier (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 12:45am

Re: Re: Re:
Not in the USA, so far. With recent events in Egypt and Libya, were I a government, I wouldn't want to keep pressing people until I find their breaking point. By then it's obviously much too late to backtrack.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2011 @ 12:59am

Re:
I'm already getting sick of hearing about the constitution.

When are people going to realize and understand that the constitution isn't actually written for us but for them (the capitalists)? That explains alot about what's going on recently.
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That Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2011 @ 5:10am

I read these stories and I find myself terrified to fly ever again.
I am afraid of being felt up, robbed, irradiated, humiliated, "detained without being detained", showing resentment at being treated poorly will lead to worse treatment, and this is wrong.

In the push to stop the terrorists, they have become just as bad, if not worse, than what they claim to be protecting us from.

They are terrorizing the populace, shouldn't they be detaining themselves?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2011 @ 6:12am

Laws were made to protect the powerful, thats something Obama will not CHANGE.
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Matt Jones (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 6:15am

Re: It's like those "You might be a redneck" jokes
So it's exactly like those "You might be a redneck" jokes? ;)
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Shon Gale (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 6:16am

The real question is: Do you feel any safer?
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harbingerofdoom (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 6:21am

Re:
personally? i drove to las vegas last time i went because of all this.
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abc gum, 16 Apr 2011 @ 7:01am

Terrorize Society Association
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FormerAC (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 7:23am

Re:
If I were a terrorist, I would wait until the next big travel holiday (day before Thanksgiving, Christmas week, spring break, etc) and go to the biggest airport with the longest lines at security. Then I would blow myself up in the middle of the security line. Should be a nice addition to the security theater, don't ya think?
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FormerAC (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 7:27am

Safer?
From TFA ...

For every person correctly identified as a "high risk" traveler by (the behavior detection officers), 86 were misidentified

86 to one false positive ratio. Outstanding job officer!!!

Even better, still from TFA ...

The Accountability Office said it looked at 23 occasions in which 16 individuals -- people later charged with terrorism-related activities -- passed through high-threat airports. None is known to have been identified.

SO, 86 false positives for every "high risk" person identified. Yet still not a single terrorist?

So we have naked scanners that can't find a gun. Behavioral profiling which incorrectly targets 86 people for every one they correctly identify, and 23 known cases of terrorists going through our "security" and not one was identified.

Yeah, safer, that's the word I'm looking for ...
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William Jackson, 16 Apr 2011 @ 7:49am

This is why I did not push to investigate what happened to my son's PS3 which was stolen out of his checked luggage. I made one call and was told there was no way a TSA employee could have taken anything out of a bag. Total BULLSh�T
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arcan, 16 Apr 2011 @ 8:01am

Re:
if they can break the 21st amendment or the 27th or the presidential election ones i will be impressed
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2011 @ 9:00am

Re: Re:
The spouse and I are empty nesters, cash on hand to do some travelling if we wanted. We could fly around the US or to another country, been saving our pennies for a nice vacation this year.

We decided to just rent a house in Jersey on the beach, an hour away by car, since I won't even consider the possibility of going through this TSA crap.
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Chris in Utah (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 9:37am

Re: Re:
aka corporate funding workaround or are you not paying attention?
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wnyght (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 9:41am

Re:
You know, it's almost safer to UPS something you would like to take with you on vacation if it's valuable than it is to check it with TSA. I think I would pay the extra price for a safer feeling of my belongings.... Too bad I cant UPS myself.
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Chris in Utah (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 9:41am

So i just watched Hop with the kids. Does that make the writers/producers and actors terrorist for openly snubbing working at the TSA looking at ads for work?

I really got a laugh out of it too; come and get me, come and get me, come and get me.
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Jesse (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 10:04am

Behavioral Guide to Identifying Abusive Government Organizations
Behavioral Guide to Identifying Abusive Government Organizations:

"Very arrogant and expresses contempt against airport passengers."
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Vincent Clement (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 11:11am

Re:
It is total bullshit. Had a small multi-tool removed from checked baggage. The TSA website clearly says it is allowed in checked baggage. But upon arriving at Disney World, it was missing.
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Griff (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 11:21am

No imagination
The problem here with the TSA appears to be the stable door syndrome. They are trying to prevent 9/11, but locked cockpit doors and everyone knowing that hijackers don't just want to be taken somewhere will stop that ever happening again.

9/11 succeeded because they were organised, motivated and had the element of surprise. Apart from some idiotic shoe bomber type incidents (ie poorly organised and no real element of surprise), we don't know of any real attempts at a major attack since 9/11.

If the next event is as completely unexpected as a mode of attack as the last one was, it won't be prevented by security that works like this.

The reason I worry is because I have no confidence in law enforcement (or Government)'s imagination.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2011 @ 2:23pm

Re: Re:
I've read on a camera forum that nothing has ever been stolen if the checked luggage that includes a declared firearm. The TSA doesn't want bad press from anything coming up missing from luggage like that and they mark the luggage clearly as having a firearm inside.

The best bet they say is to pack a starter pistol since they are small and no place in the U.S. includes them in handgun bans, but they still qualify as a firearm by the TSA. You would also need the same kind of (lockable?) handgun case or something, it can't just be loose in your luggage, and unloaded of course.
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Neil (SM), 16 Apr 2011 @ 4:16pm

nonsense
First of all, the law and courts have made it clear (at least in the non-airport real world) that refusal of a search does not constitute probable cause or grounds for a warrant. Obviously this isn't about warrants since the TSA doesn't need those for some reason, but in terms of principles this seems like it should fall along those same lines.

Second of all, it's absolutely ridiculous. Like you said, a real terrorist would not be going out of his/her way to draw attention to himself and would be trying to get through security checkpoints as quickly and quietly as possible. This is purely either a punitive measure or simply meant as a deterrent for possible complainants. They're letting the public know to keep your mouth shut and take it...or else.
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Brian, 16 Apr 2011 @ 4:41pm

The same is true of police/civilian interaction.

America the Police State

Wooo
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Phillip Vector (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 5:59pm

Re: Re:
The FBI (I am sure) are now on their way to your house for some "questions" at Gitmo.
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Christopher (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 8:22pm

Re: Re: Re:
I don't think so. I have pointed this out myself numerous times and nothing has been done to me.
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Christopher (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 8:22pm

Re: Re: Re:
I don't think so. I have pointed this out myself numerous times and nothing has been done to me.
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Christopher (profile), 16 Apr 2011 @ 8:27pm

Re: No imagination
You cannot prevent mass murders from happen, to be blunt. You can only clean up after the fact and MAYBE change some security things so that the holes that were there, aren't there anymore.

In this case, they did that by PUTTING SUPER-STRENGTH DOORS ON THE COCKPITS OF THE PLANES!
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amaress, 16 Apr 2011 @ 10:02pm

I made it all the way through security a couple months ago with a butterfly knife in my purse I'd completely forgotten about. On the way there and on the way back.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Apr 2011 @ 11:47pm

Re: How does the government prioritize problems?
Shouldn't "Transportation Safety" include not getting creamed on the highway by some drunken asshole? That happens about 20,000 times a year -- a 9/11 every two months. For some reason we've never had a multi-billion dollar War On Drunken Assholes. Funny thing.

Or people who use cellphones while driving, which is even more dangerous. Just shows that it's really all about politics, not safety.
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JeroenW (profile), 17 Apr 2011 @ 6:25am

Reminds me of the DSLR user = terrorist witch hunt
This reminds me of the convoluted reasoning we saw a lot between 2007 and 2010. If you went somewhere crowded to take pictures with a DSLR without a press pass you must be some terrorist coming to scout the site for the next attack. Never mind that any terrorist with enough brains to clean an AK-47 would use a cheap compact or a cellphone.
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 17 Apr 2011 @ 6:58am

Re: Re: Re:
We are also empty nesters. We plan to never fly anywhere for the rest of our lives. We've been there, done that enough, and to have to submit to the TSA Gestapo every time is so grossly insulting to human dignity that we will not participate. The genetically deranged subhumans who run the TSA should themselves be imprisoned for their crimes, but since we now live in a pretty close to fascist state, that will never happen.

Screw the airlines, and the TSA. I even refuse to fly for business, and have legitimate health reason for it, even though it probably wouldn't be that big a deal. Nonetheless, why even take the slightest risk of an adverse reaction to it?

If I do go to Europe, the Caribbean, and elsewhere, I will take a boat. Yeah, it takes more time. I have the time. I will gladly waste it whilst enjoying myself. To me, the act of flying is like the act of vomiting. Sometimes you might have no choice, but if you do, you won't do either.
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Michael, 17 Apr 2011 @ 7:28am

Doesn't affect me
Since all this crazy security, I don't get on a flight that lands in the US. I don't vacation there, I don't even cross border shop anymore. I don't know how they think this kind of thing is any good during a recession. I will just spend my money elsewhere.
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Angry Puppy (profile), 17 Apr 2011 @ 7:29am

Re:
Now, now, now...That's politically incorrect.

The proper term is: "Constitutionally Challenged"

or "Republican".
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Jet, 17 Apr 2011 @ 8:30am

HEY TSA...YOU SUCK!
Just couldn't help myself. You see, I haven't been getting much lately, so I figured I'd speak out against the TSA, get classified as a terrorist, and look forward to my next trip through airport security. Well, I'm off to take some pictures of farm animals.
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Michael Lockyear, 17 Apr 2011 @ 9:36am

When you treat the people as enemies of state, then the enemies of state tend to become the people (...with apologies to Commander Adama...)
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misterdoug (profile), 17 Apr 2011 @ 9:58am

Uhhhh..... yeah
Lemme know how that works out for you, k?
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RcCypher, 17 Apr 2011 @ 10:07am

Sounds like TSA.....
has a case of Mccarthyism. Their own personal flavor of course. I wonder if they'll start searching people because they suspect them of being socialist.
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CynicalAnswer, 17 Apr 2011 @ 11:04am

Re: Re:
Maybe the govt knows this and they're trying to encourage the terrorists as a means of population control? It won't really affect the rich behind the conspiracy since they all have their personal airliners anyways.
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CJ (profile), 17 Apr 2011 @ 5:10pm

well...
You know the one that complains too much, and accuses to often, is usually the guilty one. So... TSA what do you have to be guilty about?
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Michael, 18 Apr 2011 @ 4:47am

Re: Safer?
but at least we can thank them for the hand job.
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Adam, 18 Apr 2011 @ 10:16am

Scary
How many people need to have their freedoms taken away before they revolt in masses?

I used to have contempt for organisation like the UCLA but government is growing to the point were we need better checks and balances to protect individuals rights.

Do not fear your government, the government should fear you.
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known coward, 18 Apr 2011 @ 12:29pm

Re:
You owe the retarded an apology.

The "retarded" are not doing this to america. It is the TSA. Started under the republican Bush, and going full steam ahead under Obama the democrat.

The mentally disabled deserve your help not insults.
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retired cop, 30 Oct 2011 @ 2:25am

tsa
I was raised in an airline family. My dad was a pilot and carried a 357 magnum in the cockpit routinely and checked passenger firearms in a locker near the cockpit, until the feds told the airline that was an employee firing offense. Flying was once fun, exciting, and respectable. I once flew on Aeroflot in the USSR in 1968. Cattle car conditions in an old converted Tupelev 104 bomber, but I was allowed my shotgun as a carry-on item.

It has degenerated to the Soviet standards except here just like guun laws, the "easy" ones "we the people" are punished. Flying is like going to jail: the TSA remove your shoes, belt, search you, you are one of many unhappy people in a crowded area, your overseers are rude, intellectually challenged, rules made up to suit the occasion, the food sucks or is non existent, confined with uncertainty of getting out of there. They may be arming each TSA "security officer". The Federal grant money from Wash. DC corrupts the local police into protecting the fed system & money source. I never have had a beef with the TSA, people, but they are "obeying orders" (the the Nuremburg war crimes defence) coming from the DC Nazis-in-charge. I do not like to fly, esp. on an airline that goes along with such crap and is operated by lawyers and bureaucrats.

Now they are checking trains and highways......just because it's there......???
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soo keong chean, 14 Dec 2011 @ 7:32am

Malaysia is a proven terrorism within/born with
14/12/2011 Wednesday
Today I went to Sri Manjung Hospital and an Indian male medical officer said proudly, India country quietly approach to the queen of kingdom of heaven, ask and she replied " Is to be a terrorist or die " If the medical officer worked very hard and diligent to obtain vast of knowledge and speaks very much English and at golden age and a rubber stamp to practice by respect, then what is the very bottom people of kueh keling by millions ? Value of judgement ? Malaysia is a real 3rd world nation. Satisfaction Guaranteed.....3rd World because it is the Country that is of no good. The peoples are just bloody fools.
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Mike, 10 Nov 2015 @ 11:30am

TSA B.S
F'ing Newark man and TSA b.s. I had to exit my terminal because my plane got changed. No way to get to the next without going out of security and coming back in!!!! W.T.F. Then after the homo got done running me.....again, they open a draw in front of me that has a huge pair of scissors in it for me to take... They walked off
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JIM ANDERSEN, 16 Nov 2016 @ 11:59pm

TSA
I JOINED THE USAF AT 17. NOW I'M TREATED LIKE A TERRORIST IF I GO TO THE AIRPORT. I LIKE MY CAR.
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