Obama Says It's Okay To Treat Manning The Way He's Been Treated Because He 'Broke The Law'
from the missing-the-point dept
In the continuing saga of President Obama's tone deafness to the concerns of many (including the UN) around the world regarding the treatment of Bradley Manning -- who's accused of being the source of many of Wikileaks major releases -- the President responded to some protesters in San Francisco by defending the treatment of Manning:OBAMA: So people can have philosophical views [about Bradley Manning] but I can't conduct diplomacy on an open source [basis]... That's not how the world works.Now, the folks who posted this are taking the biggest issue with Obama's statement of "he broke the law," pointing out that he hasn't been convicted of breaking any laws. I actually don't find that to be all that problematic. The government has charged him with breaking the law, so clearly it believes he has broken the law. Obama stating the same thing that his own Defense Department has stated doesn't seem that ridiculous.
And if you're in the military... And I have to abide by certain rules of classified information. If I were to release material I weren't allowed to, I'd be breaking the law.
We're a nation of laws! We don't let individuals make their own decisions about how the laws operate. He broke the law.
[Q: Didn't he release evidence of war crimes?]
OBAMA: What he did was he dumped...
[Q: Isn't that just the same thing as what Daniel Ellsberg did?]
OBAMA: No it wasn't the same thing. Ellsberg’s material wasn't classified in the same way.
But, that still doesn't excuse the treatment of Manning in any way, shape or form. I don't know for certain if he broke the law. But even if he did, he deserves to have a trial on the matter, and prior to that trial he shouldn't be held in conditions that much of the world considers to be torture. That's the key issue, and one not dealt with here.
Separately, some of Obama's other remarks are troubling as well. The claim that he "can't" conduct diplomacy if information is open is false. It may be more difficult and he may not like it, but he's not in this job because it's easy. Finally, as the report also notes, while Obama is technically correct that the material Ellsberg released "wasn't classified the same way," he appears to be missing out on how that actually goes in favor of Manning, since the content Manning is charged with leaking was classified at a lower level than what Ellsberg released ("classified" rather than the Pentagon Papers' "top secret").
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Filed Under: barack obama, bradley manning, daniel ellsberg
Reader Comments
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But Manning (allegedly) released a lot more. And obviously the government believes that a large, aggregated amount of low-level data can be as big a deal as a smaller amount of higher-level data, right?
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100806/12442410531.shtml
Right?
;)
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As a matter of fact, in some cases yes they do (at least in the area of classification). For example, see Section 1.7(e) of Executive Order 13526.
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CBMHB
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We *really* need more political parties in this country.
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While I'm dreaming, I'd like to see a requirement that people provide a reason why they are voting for someone and if it's not a legitimate reason, their vote is nullified.
"Oh he's just so handsome!"
"Sorry, ma'am, you just lost your vote."
Also, if a candidate goes against the reason why someone voted for them, they lose that vote retroactively. If they lose votes to the point that they have less than their opponent had, it triggers an automatic recall vote.
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They tried that once. It resulted in a civil war.
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what we need are more standup people running for office not the crop of pure crap we have been getting.
if all the candidates are corporate whores and nutjobs what does it matter if they are all spread amongst 4 or 5 different parties.
we need people of real quality rather than bobbleheads.
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Common
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Yep - the new mentality... guilty until proven innocent.
Thanks for letting us clearly know where you stand Obama.
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So what ever happened to his transparency promises?
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That's not how what works. That's not how plutocracy works? This isn't supposed to be a plutocracy.
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the illusion that it is otherwise is simply a ploy to ensure stability and avoid revolt.
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But, since the Constitution has been dead for about ten years now... We have now clearly moved into an era of arbitrary, indefinite detention and abusive treatment a.k.a. torture on the whim of the executive branch.
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This is actually a big deal.
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WTF
seriously
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I would hope that torture is out of the question for the guilty as well.
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that's my thinking on it anyway.
(i can imagine a few situations where i wouldn't object much, but they almost all involve enemies in an actual war or something... torture's not that reliable a method of information gathering anyway... and i fail to see any justifiable reason to employ it for any other purpose)
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If you torture an innocent person long enough, odds are that they will be willing to say whatever you want them to just to make the torture stop. Is this really 'gathering information' or is this 'planting a patsy'?
Serious terrorists that are willing to die for their cause are not going to 'break' and provide 'reliable intelligence' when being tortured. They may say things that 'sound' like what the interrogators want to hear, but the info will be bogus (probably leading to a trap if it's followed)..... this is all movie plot stuff people, get with the times....
Manning is being 'tortured' (brainwashed, indoctrinated, culticized, take your pick they are all about the same activity, just performed at different levels by different groups) to try and get him to say what they want him to say when they actually charge him with something.
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For his own safety
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Re: For his own safety
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Re: For his own safety
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Re: For his own safety
Just saying...
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Re: For his own safety
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Re: For his own safety
The mental problems stikes me as subjective, the suicide claim is just that, a claim.
But harm people? He was in the military - that is the whole POINT of the military. To harm people.
The guns are not just for show.
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Face it, folks. Obama's a net loss. All he's done is capitulate. Which is gonna put the same people who destroyed this country back in power.
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What I said was that the US Govt. always claims people like Manning have mental problems, in order to marginalize what they are saying. And I wondered if anyone still believes that "BS" anymore.
I also mentioned that Obama does nothing more than roll over for the conservatives. He's becoming so unpopular that the Republicans are likely to win the next election. These are the same people who destroyed the country before he took office. If those people take power again, start throwing your Deutchmarks in your wheelbarrows.
And if this comment needs "moderated", well, that's about what I've come to expect from Masnik.
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They do. One of the factors involved is whether your IP address is on their shit list. Don't get their dander up.
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Also, if you put too many links or something the spam filter will automatically throw it out. But these are typical spam filter functions. The Internet is full of spam. Later, someone reviews it and if it's not spam, it gets put back in.
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held for modoration doesn't necessaraly mean it won't go up. just means a human will check it on the way past. in theory, anyway. (think i had one of my posts held at one point, if i remember rightly. contained links or something. took a little while but it did get posted)
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Actually, you can. There may exist particular exceptions such as for national security reasons (and not invented ones at that), but for the most part there's really no reason to conduct diplomacy in secret. ACTA didn't need to be secret, for example, and neither should evidence of misconduct be secret.
Public scrutiny is essential to any democracy. Lack of public scrutiny, on the other hand, is the domain of tyrants. Today's United States is steadily becoming more and more tyrannical, with the Obama administration apparently leading the way.
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ACTA is good example of why Obama wants secrecy: He doesn't want the people to know what he's really up to behind their backs.
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For his own safety
They like to bring to light anyone's secrets except their own.
"Sad." ~Art~
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"He broke the law"
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Re: "He broke the law"
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How can you be serious?
Manning should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, including capital punishment. I cannot see any reasonable to think otherwise. Even the President cannot unilaterally decide the law.
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You cannot seriously fault Obama for doing what he swore an oath to do (defend the Constitution and the nation) in front of millions of people.
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Re: Re: Re: How can you be serious?
For the ONE hour a day he was allowed outside his cell, it was to merely get a little bit of exercise.
Now please tell me how this isn't "cruel and inhumane punishment" and also why he is being punished at all WITHOUT A TRIAL. You yourself said Obama has to defend the Constitution...well what about the Eighth Amendment (cruel and unusual punishment)? It boggles my mind how you can say Obama is a defender of truth justice and liberty...when you say he has to imprison and allow the torture of a US citizen, a soldier, without a trial.
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Right. That's just what people don't understand. Here's another example: waterboarding. People wash their hair all the time, so what's the problem with helping them?
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Re: How can you be serious?
Why is it OK for the government to kill and murder so many people yet the moment someone exposes the government for its wrongdoings, they deserve capital punishment? Do you seriously listen to yourself?
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Your vote is a ruse.
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Re: Your vote is a ruse.
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We're a nation of laws?
If we are a nation of laws and we don't let individuals make their own decisions about how the laws operate; then why are all of the ILLEGALS still here? They are breaking the law and the Obama administration wants let them stay. I guess when you are part of the Obama brigade you can pick and choose which laws you enforce.
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Re: We're a nation of laws?
So Bradly Manning and Wikipedia release all this information showing how the U.S. habitually breaks international laws (ie: the collateral murder video) by murdering people and Obama's response to this is that "were a nation of laws". So breaking murder laws is OK when governments do it, but breaking the laws that prevent exposing the government for its murder is not OK. We're only a nation of laws when it's convenient to the government.
I suppose the laws don't apply to governments, only to their enslaved populations.
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Classification levels
Confidential, Secret and Top Secret are all classification levels, and in that order. Classified itself is not a classification level. My understanding is that the cables allegedly leaked include Secret material as well.
Anyway, he should be convicted and tried as appropriate, but he should also be treated like a prisoner in pre-trial detention. I agree with PJ Crowley.
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Re: Classification levels
Legends such as "Internal Use Only" are not a part of the security classification system (thusly outside the scope of the governing Executive Order), though they do serve an important role to the same extent they serve within the private sector.
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Re: Re: Classification levels
> "Top Secret", and a host of even higher classifications that
> are applied in particularly unique situations.
There is no higher classification than Top Secret. There are need-to-know compartmentalized categories within the Top Secret classification for which only specific personal have clearance, but that information isn't legally classified higher than Top Secret.
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My comment was intended to be of a somewhat general nature given that, as is certainly the case with Top Secret, there are a host of permutations it can take. "Compartmentalized" is an example, among many. "Special Programs" is yet another. Of course, having worked within the defense industry I have seen more permutations than I could ever begin to count.
Frankly, the far more difficult "clasification" to explain is "Proprietary Information", used within the private sector.
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Re: Classification levels
In that order?
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Bradley Manning
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Tough noogies, Bradley!
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Oh so it's okay for Manning but it's not okay for domain seizures? Gotcha Mike. You're hilarious.
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Nice try troll, but epic fail.
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Mike, you need a douche button. I would click on this idiot all the time. Put up a douche button!!!
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I find it hilarious when people snarkily make a claim insulting someone's intelligence... and get their facts totally incorrect in doing so.
There have been no federal charges filed and no indictments in many of the domain seizures.
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Classification
The president is the classification authority. He can classify and declassify whatever information he chooses, so by definition, if Obama released the same information that Manning did, he would *not* be breaking the law.
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Classification
> at a lower level than what Ellsberg released ("classified" rather
> than the Pentagon Papers' "top secret").
Mike,
The term "classified" is a general term that describes all levels of classification. It is not in itself a level of classification.
There levels of classification are:
Unclassified
For Official Use Only
Confidential
Secret
Top Secret
If information falls into any one of those categories save the first, it's "classified". I trust you can see why saying that Manning's info wasn't the same as Ellsberg's because it was "classified" doesn't really tell us much. All that says is that Manning's info could have fallen anywhere in the range between FOUO and Top Secret.
FYI: Homeland Security has proposed Congress create a new level of classification, which would fall between FOUO and Confidential, called "Law Enforcement Sensitive". It's in the works but has not yet been approved.
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Re: Classification
From reports I've read the highest level in the leaks was Secret. Top Secret would have been sent over a different system.
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Don't forget!!!
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Give them too much power and influence and sooner or later the same government capable of giving you the things you want will now be empowered to easily take those things away for whatever reason they want.
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Reaction.
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Reaction.
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Reaction to arrogant statement made by President Obama.
Treat Manning The Way He's Been Treated Because He ( Manning) “Broke The Law.” end quotes.
How would Mr. President Obama's feel if in reverse example the situation for Mr. Manning is happen to be one of Mr. Obama child/kid that done the same things as Mr. Manning does? Would the US President would say it is okay to treat his own children because they are broke the law for example, too?
How can our American people allowing such single minded statement to continued, example, for US President, Mr. Obama acted so superior and inferior in his statement to Mr. Manning? Wether Mr. Manning is wrong in his behavior, but that doesn't given the arrogant statement made by US President Obama talking down on an ordinary service man.
Thank you.
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Reaction to arrogant statement made by President Obama.
Treat Manning The Way He's Been Treated Because He ( Manning) “Broke The Law.” end quotes.
How would Mr. President Obama's feel if in reverse example the situation for Mr. Manning is happen to be one of Mr. Obama child/kid that done the same things as Mr. Manning does? Would the US President would say it is okay to treat his own children because they are broke the law for example, too?
How can our American people allowing such single minded statement to continued, example, for US President, Mr. Obama acted so superior and inferior in his statement to Mr. Manning? Wether Mr. Manning is wrong in his behavior, but that doesn't given the arrogant statement made by US President Obama talking down on an ordinary service man.
Thank you.
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Please learn to write in the English language!
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Manning = Traitor
He's lucky he isnt facing the firing squad!
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Re: Manning = Traitor
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Manning should be shot!
The majority of you make me sick, I guess that is why Obama is President though..................morons!
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Re: Obama should be 'transparent'
The majority of you make me sick, I guess that is why Obama is President though..................morons!
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"torture"?
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Since as President he is the CNC of the military I believe that's called unlawful command influence.
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Torturing him first is what lost the Democrats all the money I used to donate.
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