After Watching This Video, Can Anyone Say That Remix Isn't An Act Of A Musician?
from the live-mashup dept
One thing we hear all the time from folks who dislike remixes or mashups aren't "real" music is that a computer isn't a real "instrument." However, when I see and hear artists like Girl Talk, Kutiman and Pogo, I can't see how anyone with any ounce of intellectual honesty can claim that these are not true musicians in every sense of the word. And yet, people still argue that they're not, saying that sitting at a computer cutting up sounds isn't the same thing as playing a real "instrument." But... I point out that if someone is sitting at an electronic keyboard and pressing the keys, all they're really doing is playing a sound created by someone else. Is that really all that different than mashing up sounds played by someone else? What if you take things a step further and program clips of other songs into a keyboard and have someone play it?Step on up, Madeon. While it's not a keyboard directly but (perhaps more impressively) a Novation Launchpad, this 17-year-old recently released this incredible video of him mashing up 39 of his favorite songs into one song... live. I defy anyone to claim that what he's doing here is anything less than a musician playing a keyboard or guitar:
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This guy did an awesome job.
Oh, and just so there's no mistaking it:
Fair use > Copyright
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ugh
Like all art, remixes are subject to personal taste. I personally cannot stand gibberish like this video.
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Re: ugh
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that is a fair argument unfortunately a lot of people like to argue that things are not art or made by artists simply because they don't like it.
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Art is in the eye of the beer holder...
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Le sigh
More power to the guy who is making sounds pleasing to my ear.
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Re: Le sigh
Absolutely agree (with your statement.) If this is not music, and he is not an artist because he didn't play a gorram instrument, then anyone who uses autotune is not a musician either. Unless you are playing a traditional musical instrument (something that wasn't invented/discovered since the 50's,) then you aren't a musician. Since I play the trumpet/coronet/flugelhorn, I qualify...but the rappers don't...sorry rappers. See how dumb this slides down the hill. Anyone who makes music, whether I personally like it or not, is by definition a musician, even rappers.
I hate autotune, but I have heard some really good autotune songs. And I would never have the audacity to say that those who use autotune aren't musicians, but my bias is showing because personally, I like Kutiman more than most of the major owned musicians right now.
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:-)
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Yeah I'm sure it takes TONS of talent to steal content from a bunch of different bands and throw it together.
How'd I do?
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Whoosh!
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remix
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Re: remix
To me this is no different than playing an electric piano.
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I hereby let you know that you failed miserably. Your post smells of unfortunate feeble trollism and you didn't even manage to *say* the sentence in question. You just simply *wrote* it anyone can do that.
"Remix isn't an act of musician."
See, it is not that hard.
Best regards,
AC
p.s. I shall mention that after actually listening to the actual video I have to disagree with my own statement in quotes above. Such is the sorry life of a troll in its basement.
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-AAA
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Did not watch the Remix video
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And whoever said remixes are dead is lying.
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I'm actually going through Propellerheads' Reason to learn how to do some of this and tie it all together with samples and synths. And to all the "purists" out there who claim this isn't music, they're just musical pedants who can't appreciate a newer form of musical creation/expression (there will be others besides this so enjoy it). I applaud this fellow musician on his works. Just go to Youtube and look at his other works. Even Deadmau5 approves so he must be doing something right.
Oh yeah Mike, good pick of music too!
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http://ucsoft.uc.funpic.de/sce.html
Don't worry about synths if you're thinking of samples. Synthesizers are a very different beast.
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Remixing IS creativity.
If you can’t see past the obvious addition of the components and enjoy the whole as its own being, then I truly feel for you. You must have no joy in your life. Everything that could be appreciated as something of its own has been broken down and compartmentalized into nothing more than a parts list for product.
If it is your belief that no talent lies in the remixer then why would you check out the culinary talents of various chefs? In the end, they’re just making small variations on meat and vegetables. They might be able to coax out flavors and textures you haven’t had before, but most of the work is still being done by the animal or vegetable itself.
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Re: Remixing IS creativity.
Or clothes, or toys, or electronics... Or PEOPLE.... Or anything else ever in the whole ever of evers. All remixed.
Dog/cat breeds? All small variations on a core theme. Ditto for every other breed of animal, including humans. Also plants.
Gems? All variations on rocks, damn mother nature is so unoriginal.
I have concluded people who whine about remixing and "originality" (Besides the fact they are hypocrites) are just looking for something to whine about or one of those trendy weirdoes I see more and more of these days who but into the "originality" fad-fetish thing.
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Re: Re: Remixing IS creativity.
I'll never understand the constant obsession with originality.
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Re: Re: Re: Remixing IS creativity.
I need to write an article/comic on it one of these days..
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Get on the Madeon Train!
As someone who's spent a good deal of time over the past 10+ years musiking in front of a computer I can tell you unequivocally that Madeon's mashup not only took a ton of time to make, but that it was a lot less fun to make then what "real musicians" do. It's hours and hours of tedious prep work before one can even begin the "fun" parts.
I can't imagine how many hours of cutting, pitching, and combining samples he had to go through before he was even able to make 15 secs that sounded good. Those first 15 secs are always the hardest but I still feel for the guy who has the discipline to stare at waveforms like that and not go insane. Imagine having to build a guitar every time you wanted to jam. It's like that.
Anyone who thinks work like this isn't done by a musician may be right but for the wrong reasons. This kind of work is both advanced audio engineering and musicianship plus style and taste. Few people have even two of those things even if they have the gear...and that's why Madeon's so fly.
He's got it all.
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Re: Get on the Madeon Train!
I could imagine it would be the same if you had to hand build your guitar or piano before you got to play it.
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Doing a remix live just finishes cremating the body of that old and tired myth.
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I don't see how you can expect to tackle someone else's arguments without at least mentioning their last name.
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However, when you directly quoted, "I don't see how you can expect to tackle someone else's arguments without at least mentioning their last name," you failed to cite where you were quoting it from.
Thank you for playing.
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Also, they're fun to build.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkp9bDGDd1w&feature=player_detailpage#t=139s
There's just something about it (no pun intended) that twangs with me inside whenever I listen to it.
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It probably goes back further than that. I can picture cavemen sitting around banging rocks together rhythmically and laughing at Grog with his new fangled skin covered hollow log drum.
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Well hell yeah they did. Just ask Bob Dylan about it. He was booed offstage for "going electric".
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But, this kid is good and what he is doing is music. And I'm an old codger [67]
I defy anyone who says it isn't to make something that sounds as good using the instruments he used.
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On a side note, I am a musician, having both recording (at an MCI/Neve console)experience (including credits on some seminal recordings and being a genuine certified recording engineer) and an electronic musician making music from electronics and sampling tape before the term "ambient" was e're coined.
Unless you are a retro-head and using some form of FM modulated square-wave/additive synth, you'd find it very hard to buy a modern keyboard that does not depend on samples for its "instrument sounds."
Those samples are made by professional musicians, most often moonlighting classical instrument players playing a single note on, say, a 200-yr-old violin, over and over at various pitches, speeds, harmonic bowing and tremelo. A compilation of those notes/sounds are then mixed in various configurations to make the samples in various "resolutions" for almost all modern keyboards, and definitely for all DAWs.
So... according to a copytard, those classicalists are being "ripped off" because someone's "using their sound"?
[and to head Mr 'Tard off at the pass (third pass, low bandwidth attenuation)yes, those musicians are paid for their time and sound generation but it is still someone else playing the initial instrument, or what we at the console call "audio source"]
That's someone who doesn't know the first thing about music production, recording studios, keyboards, sampling, sound mixing, audio or music/acoustic theory and is talking out of their Opinion Hole. ie, some suit Producer.
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Re: Re:
Moog, DSI and Nord would like to have a word with you.
Analog and analog modelling digital synths have been pretty much taking over from romplers over the past few years. Workstation 'boards from Korg, Roland and Yamaha are still pretty sample dependent, but they're not anywhere near as prevalent as they were 5 years ago.
There are a ton of elaborately sampled instruments available as VSTis for modern DAWs, but that number pales in comparison to the quantity of pure software based synthesis plugins on the market.
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Musically, he is doing less than a piano or guitar player would be doing.
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I guess you overestimated your audience.
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I played a CD therefore I'm a musician!
No one can really say what art is, anything placed in any spot can be considered art.
Using the music that someone else played is not the work of an musician but of an artist.
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Re: I played a CD therefore I'm a musician!
I must hang myself in shame, for I am a Philistine.
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So, yes, like rock band, if you are a harmonix engineer.
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Perhaps the type who can detect sarcasm. ;-)
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Yes, only Catgut over Pure, Natural Aged Wood, fastened together with Only Horse-Hoof Glues using no Metal Tools at all and allowed to Season to at least 3 Years is the Only True Instrument.
I certainly Hope you are not a Radicalist and Besmirch Yourself by Fingering your Instrument in the Infernal Locrian Mode (diablo en musica)!
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DIY Instrument
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Re: DIY Instrument
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Synths /= electronic keyboards
Not quite true. If by electronic keyboard you mean "synthesizer", that's not true. A "real" synthesizer makes sounds on the spot based on electric signals and stacking sine waves. In the same way that an 80s Gameboy actually physically produces the sounds you hear (every sound in 16-bit and beyond is a pre-recorded sample being triggered). This is why you see Gameboy-playing chiptune artists, but not DS-playing chiptune artists; the original GB was unique in that it actually produces sounds rather than playing samples.
A synth player spends years developing their own soundbanks. They are definitely not playing someone else's sounds.
Now, if you're referring to Kurzweil-style pianos, then yes, those are just glorified samplers. And if you're talking about a keyboard hooked up to a computer, that's MIDI, and that is a person triggering "someone else's" sounds, although they could also be the person behind the triggered samples.
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Re: Synths /= electronic keyboards
See: Analog synthesis, digital synthesis, resynthesis, modelling, SID, VSTi, OSC, etc. etc.
I'm not going to call you a moron, although you really do deserve it.
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Re: Synths /= electronic keyboards
and, btw, most modern DAWs and "synths" are cheerfully able to load professional sound envelopes from classic synths like the Korg, Prophet, Jupiter, Juno and etc. They sell them cheap at Guitar Center.
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http://bit.ly/qhEJ3C
This is called "Product Placement" and is performed by DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist on 4 turntables. I feel obliged to point out that this mix is done live, no computers, solely using 45rpm records. There's no time stretching, or quantization, these guys are just that frickin' good at scratching records and building new songs. In some cases, you'll think you're hearing a hip hop classic instrumental, but what's really happening is that they've found all the source material on 45, and are recreating those classic jams.
And if you want to look at where this approach begins, look into DJ Steinski and Double Dee who invented the sample-crazed style ~1983 with with their classic, "Lesson 1: The Payoff Mix".
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In the late 70s I used to do performances using 20-50 cheap portable cassette players each playing a loop (made by gluing toothpicks inside to keep tension on the loop) and live mixing through several panels. The art of it was
1. Remembering which player had which loop on which channel on which board
2. Timing
3. Praying to the gods a loop didn't run off the capstan
4. Praying to the gods a loop didn't break
5. Praying the toothpicks held
and yeah, it was pretty technical, difficult and entertaining.
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Jealousy is a stinky colonge.
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There IS a difference.
However..too many here are getting it twisted. There is absolutely no comparison with rhythmically pressing buttons vs. learning the nuance, technique, and gain the muscle memory to play a guitar well. It takes much more skill, time and devotion to develop your diaphragm and build an embouchure to play a horn.
What Madeon is doing is cool, takes time, talent and a good ear. It takes work that is very similar to what many audio engineers do to prep the audio clips and gear. However, it is not even on the same plane as a John Coletrane improvisation or a Yo Yo Ma solo. I mention this not to invalidate remixing as an art, but only to point out that some art takes MUCH more skill and dedication.
I've played in orchestras and Jazz bands, toured in improvisational fusion bands, and promoted and performed electronically-based gigs using originally programmed beats and playing my MC 505 rhythmically very similar to the video above.
Of them all, gaining the required understanding of music theory and mastery of my instruments to improvise (compose on the spot) solos and grooves definitely took the most time,dedication and effort. To figure out cool beatboxes and computer programs like Propellerhead's Reason and Ableton's Live and trigger the samples with a controller doesn't require years of study and muscle memory.
That being said, here is an artist, like myself, who combines the best of both worlds..enjoy ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq-BPomrsxo&feature=related
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Re: There IS a difference.
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Re: Re: There IS a difference.
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Re: There IS a difference.
What? This example took artistic thought to put together. Do you honestly think somebody with no musical aptitude could do that? It's not just pushing buttons and the machine makes the music. It takes real creative effort transform a bunch of unrelated clips of audio into a new work that doesn't resemble the source in the least. I could go outside to a busy street with a mic and recorder to sample every sound I possibly could. I guarantee you that somebody could remix those samples into a proper piece of music, without using a single conventional instrument.
"To figure out cool beatboxes and computer programs like Propellerhead's Reason and Ableton's Live and trigger the samples with a controller doesn't require years of study and muscle memory."
I call bullshit on this. If you believe what you're saying, I can't believe that you really understand your art as well as you presume. "Muscle memory", as you call it, is your brain adapting learned patterns into long term memory so that you don't have to use conscious thought to do recall it. You gain the same set of cognitive skills arranging and triggering samples of audio into a new piece of music. Music theory is a tool, not a requirement, to make good music. It's good to have in your toolbox, but not having it doesn't make you a bad or non-musician.
This is typical group think of the old generation vs. the newcomers. They do something different and disruptive that changes the whole landscape. It may even change it for the old guard that makes them uncomfortable and that pisses off the established group that has been running the show, but it's not your place to judge the way others do music unworthy just because it doesn't fit what you believe to the "right way". If you don't like what the new guys are doing, then quit crying about it and make better art. You're not going to win by denouncing them and saying they're not "real" musicians. You'll just drive more attention their way.
You're just jealous because you feel that somebody is taking the spotlight away from you by doing something that's completely different than conventional music production. It's the same attitude that content corporations have in that they don't want competition. Technology has opened a new door to creating art that's more accessible and it puts conventional opinion to question. You're afraid that they're going to compete with you and they might even replace you. That's not their fault. If you're worried that people might take them seriously, it's you whom needs to step up their game.
It always boils down to competition. Nobody wants to have to earn their place when they can just block others from competing.
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Re: Re: There IS a difference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_In_Sound_from_Way_Out!_%28Perrey_and_Kingsley_album %29
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Re: Re: There IS a difference.
"What? This example took artistic thought to put together."
I never said it didn't. In fact I validated that I believe remixing IS art. Also..so is Audio Engineering...
"Do you honestly think somebody with no musical aptitude could do that? It's not just pushing buttons and the machine makes the music."
I never said any of what you are arguing against..
"
Music theory is a tool, not a requirement, to make good music. It's good to have in your toolbox, but not having it doesn't make you a bad or non-musician."
I agree..wholeheartedly..why do you argue? I never said anything at all disparaging about Madeon's skills, musicality, or talent. Another Strawman..
""Muscle memory", as you call it, is your brain adapting learned patterns into long term memory so that you don't have to use conscious thought to do recall it.
again I agree..however, the muscle memory needed to master a stringed instrument takes much more effort to accomplish versus what is being shown in the video. To argue otherwise is either being intellectually dishonest, or shows a huge lack of understanding of what it takes to play and instrument versus a controller.
" but it's not your place to judge the way others do music unworthy "
I never did..strawman..
"If you don't like what the new guys are doing"
another strawman..actually I consider myself one of those 'new guys'
"denouncing them and saying they're not "real" musicians"
again..I never said that
"You're just jealous"
No I am constantly inspired by new stuff...
nice ad hominem btw..
Greevar, why attack me like this? did you even read my post?
Ive been reading TD for almost 4years now..usually your posts are better, friend.
to Clarfy:
I do remixes and electronic music myself in addition to all the other stuff..
I was trying to give those who are not as well versed in music and sampling, etc the benefit of my perspective as an artist and producer who has learned analog instruments, uses controllers, programs beats, improvises and composes music of all styles...every day..for many years. I know what it takes to learn an instrument. I know what it takes to learn software and controllers; to manipulate sound waves, etc..
I am NOT disparaging any of these skills and talents..
My only point was that there IS a difference in the learning curves and amount of skill it takes. My personal experiences with my own study as well as that of the hundreds of fellow musicians I know doing both styles tell me this.
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Re: Re: Re: There IS a difference.
That said, there may be differing learning curves between conventional instruments and new technology, but that doesn't mean one is any less valid or less intensive, cognitively, than the other. It may be "easier" to create music using computers and audio software than just playing and recording live sound. But realize that you're basically saying "It takes more skill to light a fire by rubbing sticks than to use a flint and steel." Both get similar results, but one of them does take out the tedious grunt-work. If your goal is to cook a meal, then how you light the fire is inconsequential to the desired result. Just as if your goal is to create brand new music, does it really matter if it's built from pieces of other songs?
But I am the kind of guy that anxiously awaits a new revision of software every iteration. I don't like things to stay the same forever.
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Cognitive Intensity
Not at all. Certainly, rubbing sticks together is a more complex and subtle skill set, but the use of flint and steel does not result in a better and more satisfying fire.
Perhaps a better analogy might be cake mix, as opposed to water, sugar, eggs, flour and baking soda. A chef can improvise and react to different situations and requirements, "Oh, we're at elevation and someone has a nut allergy, I'll need a hotter fire, and I can substitute legumes". Madeon's skill set might not be suitable to the occasion, if he's asked to jam with other artists, to read and react to their 'moves' in realtime-THAT requires a whole 'nother level of cognitive intensity, capisce?
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Re: Cognitive Intensity
My point, you just made it.
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Re: Re: There IS a difference.
It takes no talent at all to translate "make my sound fatty, you know, with lotsa sash in the butt, all those squonky string squeaks like Tony Levin" into something actually resembing an audio signal. Nope, just a glorified monkey button pusher here.
And if you leave your camera lying around the studio and I take a picture of myself with it, you better not claim copyright or I will sue.
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Re: There IS a difference.
Well, fair enough - but then, sample-based music is a relatively young art form. Jazz needed some time to ferment before it produced anyone comparable to Mozart - but it did, in time. As you demonstrate with squarepusher, it's all happening, it's all coming together - is there a DJ whose talent has reached the heights of history's musica greats? That's a topic music lovers could debate for hours, and it would be a lot of fun. Perhaps it's fair to say "no, not quite" - I'm not entirely sure. But I have no doubt there will be.
In any case, the far more important point is the one we agree on, which is that it all counts as art and all these musicians should definitely be allowed to express themselves in this way without being labelled "unoriginal"
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Probably not.
If my TV is acting up and the problem goes away when I bang my hand on the side of it, does that make me an electrician?
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Separately, you have to have through knowledge of the written communication of music to understand it? Man, there were a lot of musicians who weren't musicians by your standard.
Actually, Paul McCartney couldn't read sheet music when he wrote a new tune for Golden Slumbers, and at that point had written many other songs besides.
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"Quick! What's the harmonic envelope of an oboe playing c3?"
"Tempered or non-tempered?"
AAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
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Madeon
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"...unmusical rot."
"...make every effort to suppress and [to] discourage the playing and the publishing of such musical trash."
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/ihas/loc.natlib.ihas.200035811/default.html
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Controller dude played like he belonged in the room with us. Does that make him a 'musician', or the rest of us 'non musicians'?
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and yes a controllerist is a musician..and he was improvising with you by reacting, supporting and hopefully complimenting the rest
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Controller dude was a wild man... aleatoric sequences, marimba solos, slovak radio samples... he'd snag bass riffs from the start of a jam, tweeze 'em up and have them ready to loop by the time the verse came around again. Really *really* skilled musician, and it was his first time in an ensemble situation.
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He Could Be Sued For The Parts Where He Takes His Hands Off The Keyboard
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Wouldn't plant my flag on this hill.
Here's the reason: in most re-mixing like this there's no **wrong** button to press. That is, the samples are all already in/shifted to the same key and stretched to the same beat. You'd have to go out of your way to make it sound dissonant or "bad".
You could point out (as an earlier comment did) that there is an enormous amount of "prep time" in selecting and preparing the samples, and there might be an interesting debate in there on how artistic vs. how mechanical that process is, but you seem to be in awe of the act of pressing buttons and making a cool song, and honestly that's not hard to do.
It's basically like the incredibox website - you can re-arrange pre-chosen sound snippets that are going to sound pretty good no matter what.
Let me be clear, there are some remixes that I would argue strongly are every bit as creative as any traditional piece of music, but this specific clip demonstrates a skill set that is quite different from playing a traditional instrument.
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Who is an art?
Mirriam-Webster's online dictionary says that a musician is a composer, conductor, or performer of music. That is, one who plays or makes music. So, is the operator (nice neutral term) composing music? Well, taking bits of 39 different works and mashing them together would be considered composing as he had to orchetrate the series of the bits. Is he conducting it? Certainly looked like it to me when his fingers were snapping the time/rythym. Is he performing music? By the act of touching something and having tonal sounds result yes, he is.
So, he's a musician. And I'm okay with that. I am NOT okay with groups of singers calling themselves a BAND. Bands play instruments, or at least most of them do. If all you do is sing, you're a chior or vocalist. And if you don't sing, by which I mean a reasonable degree of variance from the monotonal rapping...
Anyway, back on track now...
Is a remix considered art, Fair Use, and what have you? Well, everytime I look at these articles about remixing I am -forced- to look towards 'Weird Al' Yankovic. A man who has made an amazing career out of remixing and parodies for 35 years. While he does these parodies and remixes of famous songs into polkas he does ask the musician's permission -as a courtesy- even though he doesn't have to thanks to Fair Use. I'm sure that many out there would have little trouble agreeing that his works are already art and almost a poster boy for Fair Use. Here's a guy who takes the same words, the same sounds, or some combination of the two, and speeds it up to a polka beat, rewrites the words, and has made a decent living at it in addition to live tours, concerts, merchandise, online mp3 sales, etc.
And there I go digressing again...
So, is a remix considered art? I've always considered art something to be looked at and music something to be heard. But I would have to say that blending bits and pieces of previously done works, no matter how much or little of the work is used, and turning them into a completely different work is completely valid. Is it Fair Use? Again, I would say it depends on how much of it you use and how different it is from the original. If you take an entire movie and redo the last 5 minutes of it, you don't have a strong Fair Use case just because you wanted Voldemort to win or something.
Now is it considered art even if I don't like it? Well, as it happens, I -do- like it even if you don't. However, art has been historically all about likes and dislikes. Art is about creating emotion through you and expressing the emotion of the artist. The musician has managed to create emotions within me as I hear his works, I have read your emotions in your words that the musician has created with you, the work in question has managed to cause a controversial and point-raising debate bewteeen opposing sides. Thusly I would have to consider the piece in question not only music, but art as well.
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Re: Who is an art?
So, he's a musician."
This!
Some people need to rein in their egos a bit...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Who is an art?
Mirriam-Webster's online dictionary says that a musician is a composer, conductor, or performer of music. That is, one who plays or makes music. So, is the operator (nice neutral term) composing music? Well, taking bits of 39 different works and mashing them together would be considered composing as he had to orchetrate the series of the bits. Is he conducting it? Certainly looked like it to me when his fingers were snapping the time/rythym. Is he performing music? By the act of touching something and having tonal sounds result yes, he is.
So, he's a musician. And I'm okay with that. I am NOT okay with groups of singers calling themselves a BAND. Bands play instruments, or at least most of them do. If all you do is sing, you're a chior or vocalist. And if you don't sing, by which I mean a reasonable degree of variance from the monotonal rapping...
Anyway, back on track now...
Is a remix considered art, Fair Use, and what have you? Well, everytime I look at these articles about remixing I am -forced- to look towards 'Weird Al' Yankovic. A man who has made an amazing career out of remixing and parodies for 35 years. While he does these parodies and remixes of famous songs into polkas he does ask the musician's permission -as a courtesy- even though he doesn't have to thanks to Fair Use. I'm sure that many out there would have little trouble agreeing that his works are already art and almost a poster boy for Fair Use. Here's a guy who takes the same words, the same sounds, or some combination of the two, and speeds it up to a polka beat, rewrites the words, and has made a decent living at it in addition to live tours, concerts, merchandise, online mp3 sales, etc.
And there I go digressing again...
So, is a remix considered art? I've always considered art something to be looked at and music something to be heard. But I would have to say that blending bits and pieces of previously done works, no matter how much or little of the work is used, and turning them into a completely different work is completely valid. Is it Fair Use? Again, I would say it depends on how much of it you use and how different it is from the original. If you take an entire movie and redo the last 5 minutes of it, you don't have a strong Fair Use case just because you wanted Voldemort to win or something.
Now is it considered art even if I don't like it? Well, as it happens, I -do- like it even if you don't. However, art has been historically all about likes and dislikes. Art is about creating emotion through you and expressing the emotion of the artist. The musician has managed to create emotions within me as I hear his works, I have read your emotions in your words that the musician has created with you, the work in question has managed to cause a controversial and point-raising debate bewteeen opposing sides. Thusly I would have to consider the piece in question not only music, but art as well.
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Damn double post
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Re: Damn double post
Only if Techdirt adds that capability.
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I'm still not in the belief that nascar is a sport either. Yes, it takes talent and hard work, just as in seeing my wife's o-face.
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Re:
It's a competition requiring physical skill and (despite what some believe) fitness. What is your definition of a sport?
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Nobody denies the effort required to do this sort of thing. Nobody denies that the effect could be considered "artistic" by some.
However, it fails on the basis that it works from the performances of others.
Now, if he has clearance from all of people involved to use those clips, then more power to him. But without clearance, he is still just really taking what is not rightfully his, and claiming it as part of his own work.
Trying to create a choice between "artist and not artistic" as a way of justifying piracy and ignoring copyright just isn't a fair question. It's slanted, because many of us would choose both answers: It's somewhat artistic, but somewhat against the law.
Trying to force people to choose between the two is misleading and somewhat dishonest.
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Re:
In addition:
- he didn't take anything away from anyone
- he's not "claiming" it as part of his own work, it now actually is part of his work
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Re: Re:
As to the unasked question of whether his use of copyrighted material is 'transformative' enough to avoid a lawsuit, I'd say "probably", but I'm not a lawyer.
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Re: Re: Re:
"Mirriam-Webster's online dictionary says that a musician is a composer, conductor, or performer of music. That is, one who plays or makes music. So, is the operator (nice neutral term) composing music? Well, taking bits of 39 different works and mashing them together would be considered composing as he had to orchetrate the series of the bits. Is he conducting it? Certainly looked like it to me when his fingers were snapping the time/rythym. Is he performing music? By the act of touching something and having tonal sounds result yes, he is.
So, he's a musician."
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Everything else is irrelevant.
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amazing
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Oh the pretense
He obviously had a song in his head and could have created it by humming or la-la ing the whole tune. Fact of the matter is he brought a song to life with what he could find and it sounds great.
You could make the same argument about sampling for the Art of Noise and if any of you self-proclaimed musicians think you could keep up with Anne Dudley or Trevor Horn in regards to musical skill, then it's time for dose of Lithium because the grandiosity is starting to seep out.
There are plenty of crap remixes as there are also plenty (if not more) volumes of crap "music" by so called "real musicians" playing instruments.
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INSTRUMENTAL
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INSTRUMENTAL
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