Oracle Deletes Jonathan Schwartz's Old Blog; Which Excitedly Celebrated Google's Use Of Java In Android
from the rewriting-history dept
There was a bit of an embarrassment in the ongoing patent dispute between Oracle and Google. Oracle, of course, is claiming that Google's Android violates some of the patents it acquired from Sun concerning Java. Google pointed out that if its use was so problematic, why did Sun celebrate Google's Java usage in Android? They pointed to a blog post from then-Sun CEO Jonathan Schwartz (who was the first Fortune 500 CEO to blog -- and who, unlike many corporate bloggers, actually spoke his mind on the blog), which happily celebrated Google basing Android on Java/Linux:I imagine that Oracle also wanted to erase other former Schwartz blog posts, like the one we spoke about years ago, in which he pointed out that suing over patents is a sign of desperation and that real companies innovate, rather than litigate.
Now, many of you who will be quick to point out that none of that matters. Oracle holds the patents now and so it gets to decide. And that's true -- though I do wonder if such promises not to litigate over patents and to celebrate such usages might be seen as a form of a license... But, the larger point I wanted to raise is that this shows the dangers even of defensive patents. Sun held a ton of patents, almost all of which were for defensive reasons (or to just show what a joke the patent system is). And yet... now that Oracle has them, it can and is using them to try to shake down other companies.
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Filed Under: android, blog, evidence, java, jonathan schwartz, patents
Companies: google, oracle, sun
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I'm not even sure what happened to the people who were working at Sun. They likely have all of their really good, really innovative ideas patented now, so they can't start anew (assuming they're not retired or working under contract with Oracle).
It seems the numbers of companies on the side of consumer freedom are dwindling. I'm not even sure what I'm going to do if someone like Red Hat gets acquired.
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Re: Oracle acquiring Sun is probably the worst thing to have happened to the open source (and maybe even the technology) community in recent date.
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Re: Re: Oracle acquiring Sun is probably the worst thing to have happened to the open source (and maybe even the technology) community in recent date.
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Re: Nah, it just takes them a bit of time for them to maneuver the projects into a way that mimmicks closed source stuff.
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Re: Re: Nah, it just takes them a bit of time for them to maneuver the projects into a way that mimmicks closed source stuff.
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Re: Re: Oracle acquiring Sun is probably the worst thing to have happened to the open source (and maybe even the technology) community in recent date.
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Re:
Oracle has neatly undone all that. They've lost or forced out some very talented people. They've forced the OpenOffice project to fork. They've irresponsibly removed access to OS security patches. And of course they're now resorted to litigation over software patents, the hallmark of lesser people equipped with lesser minds.
So in a little over a year, they've turned me from a three-decade fan into someone who wishes them early corporate death: the world will be better off when Oracle fails completely and evaporates into nothingness. It can't possibly happen soon enough.
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Re: "...the world will be better off when Oracle fails completely..."
--Coreigh
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Things also went tits-up with many of the wonderful projects that Sun hosted and supported. Many of them stagnate now under Oracle except for the one or two that have lots of users. With the only remaining remnants of them being forks and old revisions that people keep updating with patches.
Oracle is truly a prime evil.
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what about other JVM languages?
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Re: what about other JVM languages?
But I do think that if Oracle starts trying to squash the presence of the JVM or Java on other physical platforms unless they're paid exorbitant licensing fees, then it's pointless even trying to work with them anymore.
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Re: what about other JVM languages?
They are safe to use until real money is involved. Unlike the [MP|RI]AA, Oracle isn't interested in suing anyone and everyone who they think are 'infringing'. They will only sue you if you are making a non-trivial amount of money or if your project causes embarrassment or inconvenience to Oracle in some way.
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Blog articles still available on wordpress
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Yep, even the Unix guys at work say just that. And most of the web developers I know now groan loudly if they have to use java. Most seem to prefer Ruby, .NET or whatever.
By and large, the company I works for avoids Oracle because of the costs involved, although it's in use for some software specifically designed for it, most of the core databases are MSSQL.
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No wonder the Internet Archive has been declared a rogue site dedicated to infringing activities.
The only persons who 'declare' such are likely these 'revisionists' who like to try and keep the masses ignorant of things.
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History
That reminds me. I should donate some money to the Internet Archive. (http://www.archive.org/donate/)
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Re: History
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Right, but isn't it still some kind of destruction of evidence? Lawyers like to twist things, right?
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If there has been legal action of any kind and that includes legal nastygrams between companies using attorneys and then google have countered these nastygrams or any other legal correspondence with this blog there is foreknowledge of exculpatory evidence, no matter how slight or weak that evidence/claim may be.
If Oracle have unwittingly (as they would claim) deleted this they are still liable for destruction of evidence under Discovery laws.
If it can be proven they did this knowingly, then they are even more liable and specific individuals could be criminally liable. Oracle's lawyers are probably not impressed at their clients at the moment.
Thankfully the Blog post has not been fully lost, though legally what is elsewhere as copies could be denied. I am not aware of any cases using the Wayback Machine to prove providence of source so it could be up to rules of Evidence in the jurisdiction and what the court, if it goes to court, allows.
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It seems that Groklaw has more on this and also states that "Google has already included it as an exhibit to its defenses."
So it is destruction of evidence in fact it's destruction of source evidence of something that is an exhibit in a case before the courts. eek!
Also interesting that Google are using the blog post as a means to show estoppel (equitable estoppel I think the USA calls it, we call it promissory estoppel). Not sure how that will pan out, estoppel is a really weird and highly factually reliant beast.
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Patent Troll - i want my money if you breathe or not
Jul-22-11
When Patents Attack!
Why would a company rent an office in a tiny town in East Texas, put a nameplate on the door, and leave it completely empty for a year? The answer involves a controversial billionaire physicist in Seattle, a 40 pound cookbook, and a war waging right now, all across the software and tech industries
...and, this is where you go to get it:http://www.thisamericanlife.org/
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Oracle in the Mist
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Java
I find that EFS-WEB does not recognize Java on linux, and seems to require Windows.
So, in mucking around, I found that it appears to be something Microsoft or Oracle added, and whatever the flag is, it can be reset by merely having Windows available, even if using linux.
Interestingly, on one computer, I set it up to access Windows, then used linux (successfully).
I then decided to try Windows - and now WINDOWS is blocked!
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It just feels like all bets are off at this point. You could extend this insane thread of logic in almost any direction if you tried hard enough.
Hopefully languages like Ruby and Python never succumb to this rampant stupidity.
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