Spanish Appeals Court: Linking Is Not Infringement

Once Again NY Expands 'Anti-Piracy' Laws Based On No Evidence

from the but-of-course dept

Mon, Aug 8th 2011 10:05pm — Mike Masnick

You may recall a few years ago that the MPAA totally made up numbers about how big a "problem" camcording was in New York (if you added up their percentages, it came out that significantly more than 100% of all worldwide camcorded movies came from NY and Canada). But, it's not like New York politicians pay attention to the actual facts. After all, we're talking about the same folks who basically took an NBC Universal propaganda video and pretended it was their own. So, of course, the "anti-camcording" law passed.

As always, however, stricter laws are never enough for the folks at the MPAA and the RIAA. When those laws fail to change anything, rather than realizing that maybe (just maybe) they should be helping their member studios & labels adapt to the changing times, they instead focus on ratcheting up the laws even more. So, the news that New York has "expanded" its anti-bootlegging law to now include other forms of storage, including hard drives, flash drives and memory cards, is not surprising. It seems that bootleggers in New York were actually changing with the times (while the labels were not), and had moved on from selling bootlegs on discs.

Still, I really have to wonder if the "bootleg" trade is as big a problem as the industry likes to make it out to be. Considering all of this stuff is available online, who's really walking down Canal Street buying a hard drive of bootleg music these days?

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: anti-piracy, bootlegs, new york

44 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

Anonymous Coward, 8 Aug 2011 @ 11:00pm

Stricter laws don't work! We need stricter laws!

If you have to litigate your business model into survival, you are an utter failure.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Aug 2011 @ 11:02pm

There WAS, I don't know what it looks like now, a pretty big market for brand new iPods loaded with your choice of music genre on e-bay. You could buy a "NEW" iPod packed with music for about $20 over MSRP. I think e-bay started cracking down on that, since the auctions actually listed the artist's/Albums that were included on the iPod.

I've seen my share of bootleg MP3 CD sellers at local flea markets. (Entire artist's catalog on 1 or 2 CDs' as MP3's) No hard drives or thumb drives. Yet....

This is not as far fetched as you may believe. $75 USB external hard drive with 60 movies on it for $100. Sounds about right. $25 a pop profit for just copy/paste work.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rikuo (profile), 8 Aug 2011 @ 11:07pm

Re:
And why do offers like that have to be illegal? I buy hard drives all the time, and I would love it if they came pre-loaded with movies. So here's a market demand that the MPAA/RIAA are deliberately saying they don't want to sell to.
Yep, Mike is right. Not adapting to the times and actually trying to give your customers what they want would equal a death sentence for any other business.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Aug 2011 @ 11:07pm

Putting a virus on extremely cheap, small and old flash drives would be more profitable to the crooks. Maybe the MPAA's rootkit boys could look into that. If they covertly flood the streets with stuff like that they could get the bootleggers brought up on CFAA charges on top of copyright infringement.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Aug 2011 @ 11:16pm

External Hard Drive/Thumb Drive manufacturers could use it as an incentive to buy their drives. Cross promotion at it's purest. Buy our 8gb USB thumb drive, get Super-8 for free. Buy our new 1TB Hard Drive, get 3 free movies.

Actually, the studios should be thinking about this now (Patent Pending) delivery method. They'll have to license it with me, but I think they can afford my fees, even with their losses in the billions. I'll cut them a break, and write it off as charity.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 8 Aug 2011 @ 11:56pm

they already bundle games with graphics cards after all.

usually shit games. just like it'd be crappy movies.

I think i got a crimecraft disk with my last upgrade.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The eejit (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 12:10am

Re:
Is that like GTA with vectors?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 12:12am

Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 8th, 2011 @ 11:00pm
[I]If you have to litigate your business model into survival, you are an utter failure.[/I]

I hear there are some shops in Italy that don't want to pay the local security people every month and they're trying to actually get laws enforced against what they're calling a "protection racket." What idiots. Total failures, all of them.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 12:12am

One definition of insanity?
It's the American way: if that doesn't work, try more of the same.

We seem to have gotten really good at it. Unfortunately it doesn't work... so we try to apply it even harder.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
mike allen (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 12:41am

I remember a sci-fi show a few years ago where all technology from the transistor was banned everything was using valve (tube in the USA) i didnt realise at the time it was a wish list from the MPAA.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Just John (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 1:42am

Re: One definition of insanity?
So basically you are claiming that America is suffering from a case of mass insanity?

Just trying to clarify.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Just John (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 1:47am

Funny story
If they think this is bad, I could recount my visit to Malaysia. I went to the market, and there were a few stands selling DVD's, CD's, etc.

The assortment of CDs were amazing. They even included the full jeweled cases, cover art, the works. It would have been difficult to point out the fakes, which I think probably all were.

The key defining factor in figuring out that the merchandise was fake was when you started examining artists, and you found compilation albums that were never made, albums that do not exist. But hey, the music was exactly what the covers said, so at least they were good quality fakes (And yes they worked, just be careful buying PlayStation games, because if you don't have the mods, they will fail).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
herbert, 9 Aug 2011 @ 1:58am

surly everyone knows that any excuse that can be used, will be used. as long as it means the entertainment industries think they are achieving even tighter control of the general public, they will go ahead and 'encourage' it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 2:26am

On my local CL they have ppl selling hv335T media players with 1tb drives installed & 500 recent blueray 720p quaility movies on it for 300$. They are still posting sales everyday. So I guess they have not been caught.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 3:14am

There's a trend here
Has anyone else noticed that the economy has gotten worse since the crackdown on piracy? Following the MPAA logic the sconomic down turn is primarily due to the actions of the MPAA. I think that some laws need to be changed here, for the sake of the children.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Analoglife (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 3:30am

"Considering all of this stuff is available online, who's really walking down Canal Street buying a hard drive of bootleg music these days?"

Are you kidding? Bootlegs are sold on the streetcorner in every neighborhood. Yes its a problem. The business model of the studios is pay lots of artists and technicians and financiers and everyone's lawyer, and then sell the product for a few years and turn a profit. The business model in bootlegging? Steal it, move it, and move on. You don't need many stats to know where that wind blows - more crap not worth bootlegging. Want quality, interesting entertainment? Pay those who can deliver it. At least you will have a moral basis from which to complain about that crap movie you just paid $20+ to see.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The eejit (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 4:26am

Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 8th, 2011 @ 11:00pm
Government is a protection racket in the US...for corporations.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 5:20am

Re: Re:
They would - if pirates would pay for the movies. 60 movies - $600-$1200 added to the drive. It's great to be able to sell them for $20 since they didn't have to pay anything to get the movies made.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 5:22am

Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 8th, 2011 @ 11:00pm
This is a fallacy. Yes corporations (who do terrible things like employ people and pay taxes) are entitled to the protection of the law, but so are independent movie makers, performers, songwriters,photographers, even app writers (see story last week about people ripping off ipad apps). The rule of law benefits everyone.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
abc gum, 9 Aug 2011 @ 5:27am

Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 8th, 2011 @ 11:00pm
Naivety looks good on you
[ link to this | view in thread ]
abc gum, 9 Aug 2011 @ 5:29am

camcording in New York is a big problem,

It's got to be true - I saw it on Seinfeld
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Vincent Clement (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 5:45am

Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 8th, 2011 @ 11:00pm
The rule of law benefits everyone.

Only if the laws are logical. Many are not.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
IronM@sk, 9 Aug 2011 @ 5:48am

Re: Re: Re:
Would you pay $1000+ for a drive just because it had some files already on it?

Thought not.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Vincent Clement (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 5:54am

Re:
You may want to look up "Hollywood Accounting" to determine what the real business model is for movie studios. Few movies make a net profit.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 6:53am

Not me
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 7:01am

Re:
They did this already. The drive was so laden with DRM it was nearly unusable. Oh and you lost a portion of the drive forever.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 7:13am

FTFA -
"Sponsors say the state has a serious problem with piracy from street vendors and retail locations openly selling fraudulent audio recordings and supplied by large underground manufacturing and distribution operations."

For varying definitions of large, as the types of things they are talking about are often produced by a huge factory of a corner of a room with a computer.

Someone please explain how if the Labels/Studios can't compete with "free" how the hell are the Bootleggers managing to do it?

Oh maybe its because they are offering something people want, at a good price, and without all kinds of insane DRM.

So once again we see real world evidence that people are willing to pay for what they want how they want it.

Hmmmm so we can keep making laws to retard the expansion of technology to keep a business model based on vinyl discs afloat, or we could stop holding their hand and push them out of the nest to learn to adapt.

One wonders if we stopped wasting resources trying to hold innovation back, what amazing things we could have today.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 7:26am

Re: Re: Re:
+1000 for what, 200 movies? $5 per movie? Sure! If I could choose which movies of course. I recently bought a bunch of movies that even weren't priority on my 'to buy' list because they were $5 and below. I had watched a few them over the internet mind you ;)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ltlw0lf (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 7:26am

Re: Re: Re:
It's great to be able to sell them for $20 since they didn't have to pay anything to get the movies made

Does the $20 go to the artists, director, writer, etc., or does 99% of it go to the distributor and get dumped into Hollywood accounting? Why does the movie cost $20 when the distributors say that most of the cost is in distribution and they aren't paying the cost for medium. Seems like the cost is a little unreasonable given that the cost to the distributor is far less. If the $20 was going to make more movies, it would seem like a good idea, but with the money disappearing into hookers and blow, no thanks. (Then again, even though the trolls will say otherwise, my choice is, and has been to go without then to contribute to illicit activities of hookers and blow.)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ltlw0lf (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 7:29am

Re: Re:
They did this already.

They still do, just bought a 32GB MicroSD card for my phone and it came with an offer to download a movie for free. Movie was in .WMV format and DRM'd, and wouldn't play on either my phone or my Linux computer.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nicedoggy, 9 Aug 2011 @ 8:01am

This:
Quote:
They say that deprives artists and record labels of earned profits, undercuts the business of legitimate retailers and costs New York jobs and taxes.

Should read like this:

Quote:
They say that deprives artists and record labels of potential earned profits, potentially undercuts the business of legitimate retailers and costs New York lawful jobs and taxes.

Those people selling bootlegs are in a way benefiting the economy, where do those people think the bootleggers expend their money? On the Bahamas? In luxury yatches build in Europe?

Bootleggers are not the ones that hoard money and send that money outside the country to Suisse banks or some fiscal paradise in the Cayman Islands removing huge amounts of money from circulation, those bootleggers are not the ones that "repatriate" money to France, Japan and other countries, those bootleggers are not the ones that live in Ireland(Bono this is a cheap shot at you) and put all their money there not in NY.

Also those bootlegger are workers too, illegal workers that create a market and help sustain it with no protections at all on their side, which benefits the artists even if it is not a direct benefit.

How many bootlegger have a jet? How many bootleggers(street vendors) have even healthcare?

Why are NY helping other take money away from the local economy? why?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 8:08am

Re:
For that matter, why be angry at Wall Street investors who wreck the economy? They spend all that money on blow and hookers, and what do you think the coke dealers and hookers spend their money on?

Or, hey, why arrest stick-up kids? What do you think they do with the money they steal? Invest it in foreign banks? Those kids are liberating that bourgeois money for the little guy!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tech42 (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 8:17am

No evidence?
The only evidence a politician needs is evidence to show that the cheque cleared.
Once that's in place, anything you can imagine will sail through to become law.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
el_segfaulto (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 8:19am

Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 8th, 2011 @ 11:00pm
Corporations are a disease on the modern world. They are sociopathic creatures whose only goal is to make money and to consolidate their power. The grumblingly pay the least amount of taxes that they can't loophole though and when times get tough have no qualms of firing employees en masse.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
el_segfaulto (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 8:22am

Re: Re: Re:
Well there's your first problem. Only commies and socialists use Linux. (Posted from my Debian box)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nicedoggy, 9 Aug 2011 @ 8:23am

Re: Re:
You mean hookers can do financial transactions on their own and steal the jobs of Wallstreet types with their own means and move money inside the local economy?

Who knew.

Now the Wallstreet people took the money from every single little guy in America and put their money outside that system, why should people be grateful to them again?

If the hookers "steal" from them I wont care, if the blow dealer steal money from them I won't care, just as I don't care that people are "stealing" from big labels and studios.

Also why is prostitution not regulated and those workers protected from abuse?

Why is that drugs are not regulated and generating safer usage and sales?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nicedoggy, 9 Aug 2011 @ 8:38am

Re: Re: Re:
I bet you paid a premium for that SD card.

It would have been cheaper to buy another card without the promotion and rip a rented movie to it that would play in any device you wished.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 9:10am

Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 8th, 2011 @ 11:00pm
Your analogy is a failure.

Unlike your example, piracy in general could be lessened if the entertainment industries would actually listen to and serve their markets, but they refuse to do so.

Nearly 2 decades ago, the music industry chose to litigate their stagnating business model instead of adapting or co-opting the ideas and models of such as Napster. Talk about lost sales.

They spent money to sue instead of earn. That is failure on an epic scale.

They are unable, and worse, unwilling to compete because dependence upon IP enforcement has made them lazy, stupid, weak, and mean.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Any Mouse (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 11:09am

Re: Re: One definition of insanity?
Didn't think that would have to be stated so baldly. Evidence suggests that most of the world already knows it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
known coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 11:37am

in answer to your question
�Considering all of this stuff is available online, who's really walking down Canal Street buying a hard drive of bootleg music these days?�

Actually you would be surprised those guys do enough business to keep coming back and do it again day after day. If you eat a meal in china town there is a reasonable chance someone will come in the restaurant and offer to sell you a DVD.

As to the articles point, no. On the street, I have never been offered a flash drive with a movie on it, only DVD's. Whether it is true for others or not I do not know.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 11:44am

Re:
Yeah, it does a great disservice to our beloved flea markets for you to accuse vendors (must be all vendors) serving up the piracy you may or may not have truly witnessed.. Ok new laws come streaming in on the bases entirely from comments like yours. MPAA and RIAA will hire you to secretly video tape these people I'm sure. America the Beautiful, Innocence long gone.. Presumption of, that is.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 9 Aug 2011 @ 11:52am

Re: Re:
And we must all remember that the corporations serving up the technology to make these copies were very eager to sell us all the VCRs ad CDRs they could m m mass produce for years before all the lawyers jumped into the oceans of all these piracy claims and by who? More corporations.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Brendan (profile), 9 Aug 2011 @ 3:54pm

Re:
Exactly.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 12 Aug 2011 @ 5:04pm

Re: Re: One definition of insanity?
It's certainly a good working hypothesis. Naturally I consider myself one of the exceptions, but then, I also think I'm smarter than average. :)
[ link to this | view in thread ]