Secretly Snapping Naked Pics Of The Woman Who Ended Up With A Stolen Laptop Might Just Be Illegal
from the privacy-gets-tricky dept
We've had a few stories recently about tracking software used to find stolen laptops. Some of the stories are about how useful that kind of software can be, while other stories show how that kind of technology can be abused to potentially violate someone's privacy. The latter situation has resulted in a lawsuit against Absolute Software, which makes Lojack for computers.Apparently a student at a school in Ohio had stolen a laptop, sold it to another student for $40, who then sold it to a regular substitute teacher at the school for $60. It was that teacher -- a widow -- who used the computer to rekindle an old romance. Somewhere along the line, the school district asked Absolute to track down its stolen laptop. Rather than just using tools to locate it, Absolute used the spying features that allowed it to see what was on the screen. And apparently that included some sex chatting:
According to court documents, in June 2008 Magnus began recording Clements-Jeffrey�s keystrokes and monitoring her web surfing. At one point, while snooping on Clements-Jeffrey�s webcam communications with her boyfriend, Magnus also captured three screenshots from her laptop monitor, which showed Clements-Jeffrey naked in the webcam images. In one picture, her legs were spread apart.Yikes! Susan Clements-Jeffrey and her boyfriend are now suing Absolute for violating her privacy. The company claimed that there is no privacy issue because there's no privacy when it comes to stolen goods. But, of course, the response is that she had no idea it was stolen, and certainly had no expectation that any such software was on the computer. The judge in the case has refused Absolute's motion for summary judgment, meaning that the case will now move to a full trial (assuming no settlement).
Magnus subsequently sent the pictures and recorded communications, along with Clements-Jeffrey�s name and contact information, to a police detective. When the police showed up at the plaintiff�s apartment to collect the laptop, they were brandishing the explicit images Magnus had sent them. They then arrested and charged her for receiving stolen property. The charges, however, were dismissed about a week later.
It certainly is a tricky question. If the laptop really did belong to the school district, do they have the right to use software like that? Perhaps, but there are certainly privacy questions here as well, combined with the fact that there were other, significantly less intrusive methods that probably would have revealed who had the computer. But, at the very least, this should be a warning sign for anyone considering stripping naked in front of a used computer...
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Filed Under: privacy, tracking
Companies: absolute software
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If it wasn't the school district that did that, you bet your ass it would be hacking, and the backlash would be on the teacher anyway, because, "Teachers are prim and proper and must NEVER be seen to indulge in dirty, dirty sex!!!"
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Doesn't have to be used
They claim it can't be activated except by paying for it but security researchers already activated it completely without any intervention from LoJack / Computrace - which makes it a superlative (if somewhat limited in spread) spy. You can format your computer and that thing will infect it again like a disease.
Frankly, benign stated purpose or no, it kind of sucks that HP pre-infects people's machines with that nasty crap, I don't like knowing at least one of my machines comes with a ticking time bomb planted in its "head".
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What puzzles me is that the police took the photos and didn't seem to wonder why the company had them?
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Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
When the police showed up at the plaintiff�s apartment to collect the laptop, they were brandishing the explicit images Magnus had sent them.
was clearly an attempt to intimidate and threaten this woman. This is absolutely no need for the arresting officers to have anything other than the (a) who is to be arrested (b) where they are and (c) what they're to be charged with.
And let's back up one more step: why were these images turned over to the PD in the first place? What, EXACTLY, was the reasoning for that? And why -- having received them -- didn't the detective who did so file charges against Magnus for having using wiretapping to collect them?
Hypothetical: what would have happened if -- instead of a teacher buying this laptop and using it as described -- the purchaser had been a student? An underage student, to be more precise.
Absolute Software fully deserves to be hammered for this, and hopefully shut down. It's one thing to make and market software that helps locate stolen laptops; it's another to be peddling spyware that enables invading the privacy of innocent third parties.
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What about IPs?
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Re: Doesn't have to be used
http://www.absolute.com/en/company/bios-compatibility.aspx
Thats the list of laptops that have this baked into the EFI/BIOS. Never had a better reason to buy desktops or Mac laptops (which makes me sick to suggest, but they're the only major without this).
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If so, there were a lot of man hours spent "reseaching" this case...
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Re: Doesn't have to be used
I assume that if I install a different OS, the spyware isn't be able to adapt, right? It's just made for windows 7 and works on nothing else?
So, this will help drive the 2nd market to *nix?
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Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
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Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
If Absolute Software had blacked out the nudity, they may have been accused of tampering with evidence in the defense. So they sent the evidence unmodified to the police. Sounds perfectly reasonable, and it should still preserve her privacy as much as is warranted. The police could have kept the original on file and printed out an edited one. Or Absolute could have done the same, but it's not really their job to do so. It IS the job of the police to do that, though. Where things got out of hand was the officers having the printout and saying the shit they did while arresting her. Abusing their position as law-enforcement personnel to further their moral agenda well outside of the law.
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haven't they learned
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But to address it anyway, since several people seem fixated on it: everyone who spends any time at all around students knows that they buy and sell things at absurdly high and absurdly low prices all day, every day. It's normal. (We could argue that it's not very bright, and maybe it isn't...but it's normal anyway.)
I've watched a student try to sell a 9-year-old computer for $500...and another buy a relatively good Fender Strat in pristine condition for $90. That's how it works. So could we dispense with the ignorant suggestion that this woman should have somehow magically known that this computer was stolen?
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Re: Re: Doesn't have to be used
The program works with windows, (rpcnet.exe is the associated windows service) and doesn't have a foothold with *nix.
But this won't drive the 2nd market to *nix, simply because people don't know about it, don't care about it, or would have used a *nix anyway. So no net gain.
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Re: Re: Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
It's sure as hell relevant to the "receiving stolen property" charge. And it might be relevant if the argument that there's no privacy expectation in stolen property is legitimate.
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The only other way it can work per my understanding is if they have user-activated trace software. Video hijacking is a new one for me.
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I am not saying what happened was right.
The cops showing up with the pics was overboard.
The company sending naked pics to the cops for no reason was stupid.
Deciding if the owner of a stolen laptop that has software installed that allows control over such laptop still has the legal right to control the laptop is something that should never be in doubt.
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So flash a new bios? Am I getting warmer?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
That the student in question was in a "special needs school" to start with, with a criminal record, etc does not help the teachers case either.
Further, just like our discussions last week about Facebook friending. It would appear to be a case where the teacher entered into a personal relationship with a student (9th grade... making him about 14 or 15 at the time). It is something that contributed to this issue.
For that matter, let's consider the dreaded Streisand Effect here. Did anyone here know she was naked on a webcam before this suit? I think much of the violation of privacy happened when she launched the lawsuit and announced to the world that she was making virtual woopie online.
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Therefore those things are not at all relevant, right?
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Luckily, you don't need conclusive irrefutable proof for...well...anything really.
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Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
Read the decision!
The plaintiffs sued everyone (except the owner of the laptop, hmmm..). The decision, at this stage, deals with, among other things, whether the police defendants have "qualified immunity".
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Re: Re: Doesn't have to be used
Intel AMT on the other hand can transcend drive encryption. It's installed software-side via device drivers. It's blockable if someone knows what it does or if they turn Windows's automatic driver installation feature off. Intel AMT also has a BIOS-level mode like Computrace.
These features have to be set up beforehand to work. They can be disabled in the BIOS. For the truly paranoid maybe someone can hack the BIOS to break or strip out Computrace/AMT.
There should be alternate BIOSs available though by the manufacturer though. Imagine this tech being (ab)used in hospitals, government offices and nuke plants.
Remote wipe is nice but screen viewing and keystroke logging is a security hole IMO...
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yet again, something gross.
I hate everything. :/
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From: http://absolute.com/en/company/bios-compatibility.aspx
NOTE: For older computers or computers not listed below, a BIOS Flash may be available from the PC manufacturer where you purchased your computer.
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And roughly 1 out of every 10 woman hours.
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Do we even know the stats for the laptop? Was it a 3GHz Core 2 Duo that would probably have cost $1000+ at the time, or was it a used 1GHz Celeron that $60 would be way too much for?
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Please back your prices up three years. $60 for a laptop 3 years ago would have been a thrill (reasonable model HPs at the time were in the $600-$800 range).
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A quick search of Best Buy's website shows 5 laptops for less than $250.
A quick search on Ebay shows hundreds and hundreds of laptops available for under $100.
"the student told her his aunt and uncle had given him the laptop, but that he no longer needed it after getting a new one"
A reasonable story. Is the teacher gullible? Probably, but price alone does not indicate the laptop is stolen. Or are these facts too much for ya?
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That extremely lame, I seen laptops the have their windows keys and laptop worn off all time not very model or manufacture places a clear coat on those stickers to protect them. How times i have people lay their units and wet surfaces.
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The fact that it is *possible* that the laptop purchase would go down the way it did (very low price, serial number scraped off) and still be legitimate does not mean those facts are irrelevant.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
Regardless, price is relevant evidence to whether she knew or should have known it was stolen, even if it's not irrefutable evidence.
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Do you understand this concept?
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Re: Re: Doesn't have to be used
I guess it's only a matter of time before a whistleblower gets betrayed by his own laptop...
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Re: Doesn't have to be used
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Re: Re: Doesn't have to be used
Because, you know, it's so hard to find porn on the Internet.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
The price is not relevant. Is simply the value placed upon the transaction. Some used laptops get sold for $50. Some used laptops get sold for $1000. Either is equally likely to be stolen.
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Context is important. Was there anything wrong with the laptop?
It's $60 means nothing, people throw old laptops and desktops, in working condition, away all the time. I've known people who have/had laptops that they will practically give away. I've known people who have collected thrown away laptops and desktops and monitors, in working condition, from the street and they have a garage full of them.
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Wet wipes!
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Why? What software is on this list of things that it's the sellers responsibility to remove? What software is OK to leave on there? Who maintains this list, and how are people selling computers supposed to know about it?
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Certainly illegal
Where were the pedophile, minor exploitation and kiddie porn charges for all involved?
Nowhere! They all (including the software manufacturer) deserve to be imprisoned and labeled as sex offenders for life.
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$60
Beware the cheapo laptop! And always, ALWAYS know what is on the drive!
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Evidence
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The seller, and the seller should know what he's selling.
If I sold you a car with a tracking device and hidden cameras on it without telling you, I should be responsible, no?
Unless the person who sold me it didn't tell me, then the person who sold me it should be the one in trouble.
but if I stole the car, it should be my responsibility.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
Having the right to control doen't mean you can do anything you like with it.
Your right of control only goes as far as those steps that are reasonably necessary to recover your property. Anything beyond that is illegal. Intercepting those images is not a legitimate use of your right of control.
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You misunderstand my question. I mean that you seem to believe that certain types of software are illegal to sell (or maybe only illegal if preinstalled, or only if I don't mention it, I'm not really sure). Where is this list of software that I'm not allowed to sell to someone? And what statute makes it illegal to sell them?
If I sold you a car with a tracking device and hidden cameras on it without telling you, I should be responsible, no?
Responsible for what? You sold me something, that's it. It's my job to know what you're selling me, not yours. Are you "responsible" if you don't mention that you installed aftermarket suspension pieces? Isn't that my responsibility to find out? Why would hidden cameras be different? I agree that you *ought* to tell me about them as a matter of decency and honesty, but you seem to think you would be *required* to tell me.
If you use the tracking device or cameras illegally after selling me the car, that's another matter, but what law have you violated by selling it to me?
Unless the person who sold me it didn't tell me, then the person who sold me it should be the one in trouble.
Again, in trouble for what? What law has been broken?
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You mean besides the fact that the serial number was scratched off?
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Are they supposed to wait a week and see how many times it changes hands? A month?
This is where this very easily transported device is NOW.
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It is $60 with serial number scratched off.
First two things I am going to look for buying any PC/laptop is the MS license sticker, so I can wipe and re-activate, and the serial # so I can possibly locate it in case it is stolen from me.
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Do you ever record serial #'s for insurance reasons or maybe just to locate item after it has been stolen?
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Re: Doesn't have to be used
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
Then those are also relevant facts to take into consideration in determining whether she knew or should have known whether the laptop was stolen, as would be the market price for such a used laptop.
"has to be" has nothing to do with it. "Tends to show one what or another" is what most people use in determining whether X fact is relevant to Y argument/conclusion.
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http://www.neymanlaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1716398.html
"The defendant knew that the goods were stolen. This is a subjective test. Therefore, even if a reasonable person would have reason to think that the goods were stolen, that is inadequate. The subjective test for knowledge will usually be satisfied through circumstantial evidence such as an excessively low purchase price."
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I put stickers or tape over my notebooks' cameras
Ever since, my notebooks have had stickers or tape over their cameras. A malicious intruder might capture images from the camera and use them.
I read 1984 in the previous decade and saw the movie later when it came out. Video cameras pointed at me give me the willies, especially when I don't know who'll be seeing the images.
Maybe I'll go get a copy of a Eurythmics album with 'Sexcrime' on it. I remember that a whole bunch of people objected to that song in the mistaken belief that it glorified crimes against women.
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I don't find the price being $60 being at all relevant unless we know more about the laptop. Not enough information to make an informed judgement
However I agree with Berenerd, The invasion of privacy wasn't needed to make the arrest - I hope Absolute Software gets slammed for this.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
And you actually do need conclusive, irrefutable proof to be proven guilty of a crime....beyond a reasonable doubt and all that.
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Spread leg photo was needed for PD identification?
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Nope. I save the original documentation of expensive things I buy new, but I've never once even LOOKED for the serial number on anything I've bought used, especially something I've bought for as little as $60.
You mention above that you also look for the MS license key, and that is also something that I never look for. I would prefer if it didn't even have one, so that once I got it home and put my clean Linux installation on it, it would have no signs of having ever been tainted by that inferior OS.
Different strokes for different folks big guy. You can't expect everyone in the world to think about doing something because you're so OCD that it's the first thing you would even think to do. Not all minds work like yours, and I thank whatever higher power there is for that.
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No. I find it odd that so many people seem to conflate "relevant" with "conclusive" or "irrefutable" in this thread.
Someone's height is relevant to their likelihood of being a good basketball player, even if some tall people are terrible basketball players and some short people are fantastic basketball players.
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Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
I love sexist morons.
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Re: Re: Why isn't the PD being sued as well?
Decisive action against masturbation? I think you have the wrong website in mind, I have never seen any kind of anti-masturbation sentiment at Techdirt.
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Nor do I like to support thieves. If you want to promote theft, keep buying stolen goods.
Smaller the market, smaller the desire to supply. Common sense.
I generally get PCs for other people who can't afford them.
So I clean them and install MS. For some, I can set-up Dual boot or just Linux, but most think they require MS and I am not arguing with them. I am trying to do them a favour, not stress them out. If I was keeping it for myself, I might scratch of the MS sticker myself. MS allows me to file taxes online and that is it. I only need one machine to do that.
I, too, am glad not everyone thinks like me. The world would be a very boring place.
We wouldn't have doctors like you providing free diagnoses on the net based off of some comments either.
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"The judge ruled that the case could proceed as Ms. Clements-Jeffrey did not have reason to believe the computer was stolen as she was unaware of her student's criminal history and did not realize obscured serial numbers were a possible sign of theft."
Works at a reform school and is almost 50 yrs old? What a sheltered life she must have led.
"The judge ruled that she had reasonable cause to believe the $60 offer was reasonable, given that the machine was 2 years old and non-working when she obtained it."
So if I buy a new PC with no OS on it, I can expect it to be super cheap as it isn't "working?"
"He heard his teacher was shopping for laptops and offered her the non-working laptop for $60 USD."
I thought he didn't need it as he was given a new one?
"Clements-Jeffrey, who was a long-term substitute teacher at Kiefer, says the student told her his aunt and uncle had given him the laptop, but that he no longer needed it after getting a new one."
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So if I buy a new PC with no OS on it, I can expect it to be super cheap as it isn't "working?"
You're a clown. There's a very clear, and very large difference between the two. If you buy new, you're buying from the supplier, and you're expecting all of the hardware to be fully operational. Used doesn't just mean that it's been turned on, it means that it's been out of factory care and there's really no telling what could have been done with it. 'non-working' when she got it could have meant that there was a bad hard drive or memory stick, or maybe the touchpad had stopped working....much more than just a missing OS. And tell me, how much would you spend for a laptop that didn't have a working touchpad??
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Which is different from your earlier position of "the fact that the price tag was $60 makes it inconclusive, and therefore in this particular instance, irrelevant."
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