DailyDirt: Dysfunctional Capitalism

from the urls-we-dig-up dept

Wed, Dec 18th 2013 5:00pm — Joyce Hung

As we get closer to the most commercial holiday of the year, let's spend some time reflecting on capitalism and what it has become. Here are some capitalism-related links to get you started.

A distorporation is a new kind of company that's becoming ever so popular in the United States. A corporate structure called the master limited partnership is changing the way American capitalism works, allowing distorporations to circumvent rules that apply to regular public companies, such as paying taxes, but still giving them access to the public financial markets.[url]
Could the United States -- the leader of cutthroat capitalism -- switch to the "cuddly capitalism" of Scandinavian countries? According to a group of researchers from MIT, Harvard, and the Paris School of Economics, this would apparently hinder the growth of the entire global economy by slowing down the pace of innovation.[url]
American capitalism has created a wealthy country that's completely divided when it comes to its society, its economy, and its politics. Sure, capitalism can produce great wealth, but it's not going to solve all of our environmental concerns, racial divides, class distinctions, etc. You can't use it as a blueprint for building a just society. [url]

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Filed Under: capitalism, distorporation

27 Comments

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Aaron Wolf (profile), 18 Dec 2013 @ 5:08pm

Thanks
Super to see actual questioning of these things in relative mainstream. Our society accepts far too many claims about economics without question. Capitalism is not something to be revered or given deference. What we want is progress and innovation. Capitalism can go to hell if it isn't doing the best job for us.
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s0beit, 18 Dec 2013 @ 5:48pm

"Sure, capitalism can produce great wealth, but it's not going to solve all of our environmental concerns, racial divides, class distinctions, etc. You can't use it as a blueprint for building a just society."

Environmental concerns stem from governments makong communal properties and shielding corporations from liability. Racial divides, class 'distinctions' do not and should not have anything to do with an economic system. That's a pretty fucking dumb statement to make.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Dec 2013 @ 6:40pm

Re:
You agreed with the statement in almost every particular. You said economics won't solve those problems, they said economics won't solve those problems. Who exactly are you calling dumb?

Also, class distinctions are economic in nature. In fact, classes are defined by economic status. The "working class," "middle class," "1%" etc. are all based on certain economic criteria.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Dec 2013 @ 7:14pm

Privatized profits, socialized debt

Corporations are people my friend

Only little people pay taxes

There is a sucker born every minute

Capitalism has triumphed over democracy
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Dec 2013 @ 7:33pm

David Simons article was brilliant he pretty much summed up America , the sad thing is he's 1005 correct. as sad is it may be . thanks for this it was a good read
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Dec 2013 @ 7:39pm

Could the United States -- the leader of cutthroat capitalism --

Hahaha

Oh shit you're serious? Let me laugh even harder. The united States is a leader in don't capitalism and no, it is emphatically not the same thing.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Dec 2013 @ 7:39pm

Re:
*crony capitalism
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Dec 2013 @ 8:06pm

Re:
Except racial divides are often times interlinked with economics.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Dec 2013 @ 8:59pm

Capitalism, Schmapitalism
You don't get it. Corporations are all about profit, AND ONLY PROFIT. The idea of "corporate citizenship" is a belly laugh. They couldn't care less. If taxes cut into profits, avoid 'em. Pay for laws that eliminate any reduction in profit. If come congresscritter gets in the way, pay for his removal. Dangerous things, unbounded corporations. We have far too many of them.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Dec 2013 @ 10:50pm

Re: Re:
Capitalism is about maximizing profits in any legal way. If cronyism is legal and will increase profits, then the principles of capitalism mandate that it be used. So crony capitalism is indeed a facet of capitalism.

Of course, having this publicly exposed is bad for profits, so the good capitalist will try to deny it in order to protect profits.
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John Fenderson (profile), 18 Dec 2013 @ 11:45pm

Re: Capitalism, Schmapitalism
Corporations are all about profit, AND ONLY PROFIT.

But it doesn't have to be. Corporations exist because the government declares them to exist by approving their corporate charter. It's a bit like a license. We could easily mandate that charters must include certain provisions, such as requiring them to behave within certain ethical or professional boundaries, or that they don't cause economic or environmental harm, or whatever.

In the old days, doing this was the norm, and it was also the norm for corporate charters to be revoked if not adhered do -- the corporate version of the death penalty.

There is no reason we can't do that sort thing again. That we don't is a big part of why corporations have been able to get away with what they do.
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Ninja (profile), 19 Dec 2013 @ 1:47am

Insane profits and wealth are not the answer. As much of a lunacy as it may sound companies will have to settle for less stellar profits (but still profits) if we are to move to the future in many aspects including but not limited to: environment, social, humanity, science
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2013 @ 2:05am

In this case, the rich people are the loudest. And they love capitalism.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2013 @ 3:10am

Whatever people want to call it, just remember that it inflates and deflates, there are times of great opportunities and times with few opportunities, which have severe adverse effects on those not prepared for it.

Woody stays behind to swim while the other birds in the forest migrate south for the winter. Just after the other birds leave, the cold of winter sets in instantly, to the point that Woody's swimming hole freezes solid after he jumps in ("Must be hard water", he remarks). Woody does not worry, because he has stored up plenty of food. However, a snow storm enters his house and makes off with all of his possessions, food included.

Two weeks later, Woody is starving and delusional, having a staring contest with the ghost of "Starvation", personified as something vaguely resembling as the Grim Reaper. A month later, a hungry cat happens upon Woody's cabin, and conspires to eat the woodpecker. The famished Woody, however, plans just as quickly to eat the cat, and the two have at it. Eventually a moose appears at Woody's open door, and the starving cat and woodpecker chase after it.

Wikipedia: Woody Woodpecker in Pantry Panic

That situation has been happening a lot lately, so here is the question, what to do with millions in the lean times?

Is there a system that would prevent others from becoming starving lunatics and could it be implemented and survive side by side of others systems preferably being a complement to them?

I won't call the current system capitalism is not pure capitalism but is not socialism either is an out of balance mess, still it has its uses, it is based on consumption assuming every resource is either replaceable or infinite, that is madness to me, so I start to look for solutions that involve closing the many loopholes that exist today and they mostly exist on the bottom line where almost everyone will find themselves at some point in their lifes.

The question that I believe everyone should ask themselves in their lifes is "can I survive without this system?", that will lead to other questions like "how?", what do I need? by which paths I can acquire those things? what is available to me now and in the future? what are the things I need to stock upon?

How much food can I stock? do I have all that space? what happens if it runs out? do I have a means to shelter myself in the lean times? would I have to deal with others? what to do if they become hostile? how to prevent others from turning hostiles?

I found my answers, hope others find their own, in fact I eat my own dog food.

Happy holidays people.
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Jay (profile), 19 Dec 2013 @ 4:26am

Re: Re: Capitalism, Schmapitalism
You're asking people to accept capitalism and this idea that a corporation will ever care about its workers over profits...

It might be time to rethink it.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2013 @ 5:46am

Re:
"That's a pretty fucking dumb statement to make."

The voice of experience
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2013 @ 5:49am

Re: Re: Re:
If corruption is not prosecuted and it will increase profits, then the principles of capitalism mandate that it be used. So corruption is indeed a facet of capitalism.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2013 @ 5:52am

Re:
Like a drunk at a party.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2013 @ 6:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"If corruption is not prosecuted and it will increase profits, then the principles of capitalism mandate that it be used. So corruption is indeed a facet of capitalism."

It can't be prosecuted if it's not illegal. Corruption under capitalism would be *not* doing everything *legal* to increase profits. In fact, that's what the law essentially requires of publicly traded corporations (in the US).
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John Fenderson (profile), 19 Dec 2013 @ 6:16am

Re: Re: Re: Capitalism, Schmapitalism
I think you've missed my point. I'm not asking people to accept either. I'm saying that corporations can be regulated in an effective manner due to the fact that we give them permission to exist and can set the conditions.
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Jay (profile), 19 Dec 2013 @ 6:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Capitalism, Schmapitalism
The lesson of capitalism is that regulations can be undone. You can't reform asystem where people are inherently unequal.

We have to rethink the workplace. Giving people no choices in what they produce, when they produce it, is the problem. If we don't allow democracy in the workplace, how can we fight for democracy in other areas? That's why we've gone backwards to the 1930s where corporations rule the soiree and the people have their rights infringed.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2013 @ 6:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I find it interesting, to the point of hilarity, that laws are so numerous any one individual will typically violate several in their mundane daily activities - and yet corporations do not.

I thought fraud was "illegal". But destruction of the world economy via intentional, complicit fraudulent activity is not prosecuted or even investigated to see if any laws where broken. I guess it is not illegal huh.

Yes, the law requires greedy SOBs to rape and pillage. I learn something new every day.
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ChrisB (profile), 19 Dec 2013 @ 7:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Capitalism, Schmapitalism
Democracy is freedom. What is more free than two people haggling about wages? I have 40 hours and you have $500, how about we trade? This is capitalism and this is freedom.
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ChrisB (profile), 19 Dec 2013 @ 7:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Capitalism, Schmapitalism
Democracy is freedom. What is more free than two people haggling about wages? I have 40 hours and you have $500, how about we trade? This is capitalism and this is freedom.
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John Fenderson (profile), 19 Dec 2013 @ 8:56am

Re:
Racial divides, class 'distinctions' do not and should not have anything to do with an economic system.

Race should not have anything to do with it, true. But in the real world, race is tightly intertwined with the economic system.

Class distinctions are economic distinctions (in the US), so you can't talk about one without talking about the other.
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John Fenderson (profile), 19 Dec 2013 @ 9:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Capitalism, Schmapitalism
I disagree with equating democracy and freedom. Democracy is "one man, one vote". Unregulated democracy leads to tyranny. We even have a phrase for it: "the tyranny of the majority."

Your example about trading work for money only really works in a world where the two people are equals. In reality, however, that is rarely the case. We have minimum wage laws, for example, because they fixed a problem with this sort of "freedom": when all the employers refuse to pay realistic wages, then the only thing people are "free" to choose are slave wages.
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Richard (profile), 21 Dec 2013 @ 1:42pm

Re: Re: Re:
Capitalism, as a system is supposed to be about fair competition maximising efficiency.

However most participants try to subvert most of the rules most of the time with the aim of creating a monopoly.

Fact is most capitalists dislike real capitalism and try to re-identify the word with a system that favours them.
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