Entertainment Industry Gets Another Usenet Provider To Shut Down: Is Usenet Illegal?
from the the-state-of-the-internet dept
I first got online in the days before the web existed, and spent much of my time on Usenet, that group of message boards that was useful for discussions of all types. While obviously much of those conversations moved to the web or email over the years, it's still pretty ridiculous to see the entertainment industry continue to attack Usenet and basically act as if all of Usenet is illegal. As we noted a little over a month ago, a court in the Netherlands sided with anti-piracy group BREIN, and ordered Usenet provider News-Service (NSE) to wave a magic wand and somehow figure out which Usenet posts were infringing and which weren't. Not surprisingly, that's impossible, and NSE has announced that it's just shutting down entirely instead. NSE was the largest Usenet provider in Europe. And now it's dead. Because the entertainment industry refuses to adapt, and thus blames the technology for how the technology is used, a useful (legal) service is gone. For what it's worth, NSE will continue to appeal the court's ruling... but only on principle. As an operating effort, it appears NSE is dead. Another one killed by the entertainment industry.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: censorship, copyright, europe, free speech, usenet
Companies: brein, news-service
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I don't think they are going to win public support by attacking the public.
(Which is the entirety of several dozen posts on techdirt in a nutshell)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
As long as the content industries continue to view their biggest fans as criminals, they're doomed to fail.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
People spend more on media? Funny, not just revenue, but items sold dropped precipitously after music piracy.
You people need to just stop lying about this. You're not fooling anyone.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/industry/retail/u-s-album-sales-dropped-12-8-last-year-digi tal-1004137880.story
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hadopi
Music
e-Books
Media in general
You might want to study up before trying to talk down others with false threats of force.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
First link goes to a site that quotes the wonderful duo of Torrent Freak and Mike Masnick. Gee, I wonder what side of the discussion these guys are on?
Neither of them want to address the question of how much music these people would buy if piracy was not an option. They won't want to consider that somehow, recorded music sales have dropped in half, about at the same speed piracy has increased. They would rather focus on a single tree in a forest, and try to make it look like everything is okay. Go look at the overall sales numbers, how do you explain a 50% drop?
Second link is to Torrent Freak itself. FAIL. Ditto the third.
Fourth? Same place as the first, and all I can see on the page is the names of Masnick, Geist, and even Glyn Moody. Another massive FAIL.
Opinion + opinion != Fact. Learn it and work with it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Remember?
You're not fooling anybody.
Do you honestly believe you are? Then go see a mental health professional.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Then don't fucking buy it. Your impression of price fairness doesn't justify taking it for nothing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
He didn't say anything about taking it for nothing. Stop making assumptions. Just because people say "the price is too high" DOES NOT mean they are taking something for nothing or supporting people that do that or anything.
In fact, looking at his ENTIRE comment, I cannot see a single mention of downloading a single thing or anything of the sort. What I do see however, is that he points out that despite costs going down (as far as for producing the final product, that'd be the single mp3) prices have stayed the same (if not gone higher). As such, the content producers are being greedy. Now that their greed has caught up with them, they can't expect people to feel sorry for them.
Try and read what people ACTUALLY write and respond to that. And ONLY that. Not what you imagine they wrote or what you wish they wrote. It kind of makes you look bad when you do otherwise, also, you come off as pretty hardcore when you say what you did. You can't just say "then don't buy it"? You don't have to throw the "f*cking" in there. Also, nothing is "taken" in the strictest sense of the word. A copy is made. Thus nothing has been lost. Or better said, "taken".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
One day...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So my options are to buy music, and give my money to thieves and rights-tramplers. Or, not buy, and have the same results happen, just with other people's money.
I wonder why people would want to opt out of the system entirely..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
- people have much more media competing for attention and money
- people have less money available
- people finally see that the industry has kept (CD) prices artificially high by forming cartels
- there's an ongoing recession
- people aren't forced to by entire albuns (all filler no killer) anymore
etc.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Actually, he's dealt with that along with Bas. More artists are making money with only the recorded labels showing a decrease in music. I would venture that more artists are using free services as well as Kickstarter for projects and keeping those profits. I don't know why you choose to remain ignorant on your part, but that's up to you. From the sounds of it, it looks as if you dismiss anything you don't agree with.
So there's no more point in talking. If anyone wants to see the information, it's a link to an article showing how the best HADOPI customers were the biggest pirates.
How Music pirates were the RIAA's best customers
E-books and manga profited from piracy.
Joe Karaganis' 3 year report debunking the AC's line of reasoning.
Well, there's no more reason to talk to someone who wants to stay ignorant. There's more facts in the links up above. The AC has failed to engage in a debate, relying solely on rhetoric and ad homs. Sad.
Facts have been presented. Learn it and live with it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
One of the biggest mistakes anyone can make is assuming that an increase is "artist gross" is actually an increase in artist net.
If the artist has significantly more expenses, say because they are now managing their own tour, paying their own expenses for it, you may in fact see that artist net isn't as good as it was before.
The UK numbers from a couple of years back showed the most important thing: Net money in the business (except for licensing) was flat... the money consumers were spending didn't change. In a 10 year period, with inflation (both on retail and wage inflation), that is a significant loss.
" there's no more reason to talk to someone who wants to stay ignorant." - so you stopped talking to yourself?
See, I have a real problem when everything points to opinion pieces linked to weak numbers, selective representations, or just fanciful fabrications. There is a lack of reconcilliation between the facts that the music business as a whole (live, recorded, online sales, merch... the whole ball of wax including your Kickstarter types) hasn't grown much in dollar levels, but the number of "acts" has increased dramatically. Mike keeps trying to say that the artists are making more money, but basic math says this isn't really possible. More people sharing the same pie means skinnier slices for everyone.
Moreover, we continue to have the "rich get richer" theory at work, where major acts are accounting for larger and larger amounts of the pie, leaving the small fry with even less money to deal with.
As for linking to Bas... honestly, I don't take someone's thesis as much of vote one way or another. A friend of mine did a thesis a couple of years ago about how slavery was good for the economy of the new world, and suggested that slavery today would also be effective. I don't buy it for a second, but it made for an amusing thesis.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Anyone that reads this blog knows Masnick is a huge proponent of "the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it" tact.
It's always been his MO, but he now appears to rely upon it on a daily basis.
This is but one reason it can't really surprise anyone when his recent behavior is described as appearing desperate.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Other than, you know, the industry's own numbers. But folks like you will never actually look at the data.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091114/1835036932.shtml
I await, patiently, your admission that I not only have more than "a shred" of evidence, I have a ton of evidence and you have no clue.
This is but one reason it can't really surprise anyone when his recent behavior is described as appearing desperate.
Desperation is wishing to overturn the law of the land because you're unwilling to adapt.
Once again: I offer to you my services free of charge. You've admitted that you're a failure in the music business, because you don't want to adapt. I'll help you adapt. Just give us a call.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And one of the constant mistakes is how you make this stubborn complaint that growing the market means somehow the individual artist has lost something in compensation. They have not. All of the markets have indeed grown due to the abundance of digital files.
so you stopped talking to yourself?
Cute, but when all you constantly complain about is how on an opinion blog- uses objective analysis to bring up their conclusions, then it makes it harder to take you seriously.
More people sharing the same pie means skinnier slices for everyone.
The pie has gotten bigger so it's not the same pie at all.
A smaller slice could be worth more. One-third of Five and one third of 100 are not the same thing.
Moreover, we continue to have the "rich get richer" theory at work, where major acts are accounting for larger and larger amounts of the pie, leaving the small fry with even less money to deal with.
You seem to be conflating a few things here and you need to clarify. Are you talking about concerts? More live shows? More touring? How are major acts taking away from the other, smaller projects that are occurring such as streaming live on Justin.tv? I don't see how the "rich have gotten richer" when U2 touring has nothing to do with Imogen Heap's ways of twittering fans and making shows.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Desired art is by definition a natural scarcity.
You are talking about a loss of controlled distribution.
The problem for you is that the situation you avail yourself to happened via un-policed illegal behavior.
Not a sustainable scenario. Inevitable that it was going to change.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Why not lead by example? You claim that 50% drops in sales equals 50% rais in piracy. Now that's an opinion and nothing else.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
They don't waste time with the hypothetical and the impossible. In what world will piracy not be an option? In the world envisioned by the *AAs and presaged by the PROTECT IP and SOPA proposals. In a world where the Internet is essentially shut down and all potential pirates are in jail.
Now... tell me how much music they will be buying at that point?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Weren't people paying for Usenet accounts? Wasn't that money going into the economy?
Oh, I see, the entertainment companies are the only ones who matter. I guess if they're not making money, then people might as well be burning their money, right? After all, if they're not giving it to the entertainment industry, nobody cares...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
No, it would be like shutting down a shipping company that was found to be transporting stolen cars repeatedly.
Highway system = inter-connectivity (fiber/wires/etc..)
shipping company = service provider (YouTube/Facebook/NSE)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Do you understand how Usenet works? The pirated content was actually being stored on their servers, in Base64 encoded chunks. The chunks are downloaded directly from their servers and reassembled by the pirate.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Do YOU understand how the highway works. The stolen vehicles drive ON the highway.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Those servers just copy the content from other servers regardless of content.
It's like shutting down every SMTP server that receives an email that has infringing content - IOW... potentially every SMTP server... email is no longer possible, it might contain infringing content.
Yay for freedom of communication!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Have a look:
http://usenetstats.com/top100bytes.php
In that top 100, I can see easily 50 groups that would be packed with illegal content. Looking at the content of alt.binaries.dvd, it's clear that they are all DVD rips. How hard is it to see?
This is where the old "innocent host" thing becomes a problem. They propagate the content, they share it, and in the case of companies that charge to access it, they are profiting from it. They only have to look at the single largest group to know that their servers are packed full of stolen content. Why should they get a pass for turning a blind eye?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It's as if you think that the MPAA or the RIAA should control their product for others instead of finding ways to profit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I didn't sit here and criticize someone's behavior. I was talking about how the trade industries could find ways to profit from piracy by removing artificial scarcities.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The problem is, that's not the only thing you do. You repeatedly defend those who are saying "no you can't buy this", then turn round and complain that they're losing money by people not buying it. You can't have it both ways.
You would have some kind of point if the market was being correctly served and there was still piracy (which there will be, as there always has been). Many here would agree with you at that point. But, to defend those who are making massive mistakes, and to then attack those who point the mistakes out? Not helping.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
That is not liability being applied right, not by a long shot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
However, Usenet has significant use as a conduit for piracy, which makes it a real issue. It has been a problem pretty much since the start of "commercial internet time", and many of the aggregating and filter sites have only served to make it even more obvious.
It's the sort of thing that "made" the internet what it is, but like any generally illicit activity, it cannot go on forever.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
So let's shut down the internet. I am sure it will boost sales.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
First, let me say this: I chose my words poorly in using ""significant use as a conduit for piracy", because you guys are busy focusing on the words and not the meaning. I suspect it's intentional to avoid dealing with the real issues, but hey...
The internet is content neutral. A network of connections is nothing. It's what you do with it that matters. It doesn't impart anything by itself. The internet, ISPs that provide connectivity to it... they are SERVICE PROVIDERS, in the same manner that your phone company is a service provider for your cell phone or home phone service.
Usenet is pretty clearly filled with pirated content. I have already shown the links, where the largest groups by size are packed with pirated stuff. It's not hard. Any company selling access to Usenet, storing the content, etc can easily and clearly know what they are doing. In fact, many Usenet services organize, filter, and make it easier for you to collect the various pieces of the bin files to get your pirated content more quickly. Think Newzbin. They aren't neutral service providers, they are companies that are active in the distribution of content that they can clearly tell is pirated, only needing a cursory look. The sheer volume of pirate content stored on News Service is insane.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Except for the files that have bogus names and/or are encrypted? And because they should hire someone to sift through 18 TB of traffic every day?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Let's look at this from another perspective...
In order to operate their businesses, Usenet providers need to make large investments in hardware to store and serve all the content as well as providing backups in case of problems. They also need to pay for the bandwidth that they use, which must be huge, and I'll bet that their electric bills would probably match the costs of an entire street. They then charge people for access. Money changes hands and quite a bit of money goes into the economy because of this. It's just not going to to the Entertainment companies.
Now what happens if they get rid of all the large binary groups like you suggest. Without those to attract customers, they can no longer entice people to buy monthly accounts with large or unlimited download accounts. Even with the decrease in storage costs, their income would no longer make it profitable for them to operate and they'd shut down. Since virtually no ISP still runs their own news server anymore, Usenet would effectively be dead, limited only to colleges and a select few organizations.
One of the oldest parts of the net would be killed off because the entertainment industry feels they aren't getting as much money as they're entitled to. And would this make people buy more media? Pretty unlikely given that such a move would only help fuel the hatred that people already have for the copyright industry.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
However, Radio has significant use as a conduit for piracy, which makes it a real issue. It has been a problem pretty much since the start of "commercial airwave time", and many of the aggregating and filter books have only served to make it even more obvious.
It's the sort of thing that "made" the airwaves what it is, but like any generally illicit activity, it cannot go on forever.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Radio allows people to record the music, therefore it is a significant conduit of piracy. Radio must be destroyed, and any radio station that doesn't "purge any illicit tape recorder" must be closed down.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Doesn't Really Matter.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
It's never been legal for someone to copy something off the radio and distribute it on a mass level.
The radio analogy is straight-up retarded.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
It would be nice if some of you zealots could cite an actual news source once in a while, rather just link back to some previous insane post by Masnick.
You know shit has gone way off the cliff when Torrent Freak seems more reasonable than this place...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes. Yes, they are...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Here you go
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Are you suggesting that because pirate radio stations exist, then radio should be shut down? If not, your position on usenet seems rather contradictory.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Usenet
> what it is, but like any generally illicit
> activity, it cannot go on forever.
There are 50,000+ newsgroups on Usenet, the overwhelming majority of which are nothing but text-based discussion of everything from politics to basket-weaving and have absolutely nothing to do with infringement.
To block all of Usenet because of a few infringing groups/users is essentially the equivalent of blocking the entire world wide web because of a few infringing web sites.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Usenet
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Usenet
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Usenet
Without the binaries, few people will pay for it. Why? Because they want what is in the binaries... porn, warez, and pirated movies.
It's the fact that many here on Techdirt try to ignore.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Usenet
You're insane.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Usenet
Because you say so. It must be true then.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Usenet
How many bits did my free speech just consume posting this?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Usenet
> size, which are obviously being used
> for something other than "free speech".
So speech can only come in small text-based chunks now?
I shouldn't be allowed to post a political movie I made expressing my opinion on what I feel to be important societal issues on alt.binaries.video.politics?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Usenet
Then, the problem is the demand is unserviced - that people want it, and are willing to pay for it but have no reasonable legal method to do so. Do you honestly think that people would pay for usenet access for these materials if a legal channel was available?
Of course, that also assumes that binary groups only contain infringing material, which is far from the truth - a fact that you idiot trolls try to ignore.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Usenet
> for it. Why? Because they want what is in
> the binaries... porn, warez, and pirated movies.
Not true at all. There are thousands of thriving non-binary grops, all of which are populated by hundreds of people (even thousands in some cases) who would make a decent customer base for any Usenet provider and who have no interest in all the binary crap.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Usenet
Can hollywood, the record industry, and politicians ALL be wrong?
BTW: I vote YES!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
And yes, hindering piracy will lead to more sales. Welcome to Human Nature and Economics 101.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Besides which, people only have so much money to spend, most of it will go to food, entertainment goes at the bottom. And since we are in an economic downpour, with the highest levels of unemployment in ages, I don't think that buying a dvd is high on the list of things to do.
Hunting down 'pirates', is shooting at your fans. Shooting at your fans hurts your bottom-line, as it turns your fans into your worst enemies.
Welcome to Human Nature indeed.
Only in the deranged imaginations of the executives does suing 'damn dirty pirates' lead to more money.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If you only got your content from Jamendo or whatever, you wouldn't have anything to worry about then, would you?. LOL
But we all know you sit at home all week consuming content made by those with the most desired talent and those with real financial backing.
So you're not fooling anyone. Not now, and not ever before.
It's over. Seriously, give it up and get a life.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I wonder, don't you see the problems with these laws, or don't you WANT to see those problems?
In other words, is it willfull ignorance, or just basic stupidity.
These laws will have so many unintended consequences, that the damages that these laws will have, cannot be overseen.
Don't come crying to us, when your method of choice for distributing your content suddenly becomes as illegal as the pirate bay is deemed to be.
For proof of that, just look at the list of "rogue websites" put out there by the RIAA.
In the mean time, you have no right to assume 1 bit about me. Is that understood, Coward?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I love the fact that you base every assertion on idiotic assumptions with no basis in reality. Just an assumption that because you can't live without the content produced by the corporations you worship, nobody else can either. Rather pathetic.
Oh yeah, and I also love the fact that you can't accept that legal outlets exist without having to pay either. Radio, TV, free papers, libraries... it's perfectly possible to consume content even from your corporate gods without paying one cent.
"Seriously, give it up and get a life."
If only you would.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Whenever I read stuff like this, I have to laugh.
Inanimate objects don't do anything. They aren't a conduit for anything. It is how they are USED that counts.
When it comes to services, things aren't that clear. I suspect that News Service looked at dropping the binary groups (which most of the offending material would pass), and perhaps to put a limit on file size or something to limit it further, but I think they figured out that most people wouldn't pay them for access to only the legal stuff.
See, hard drives can't choose what they do, people do that. Service providers can choose what they do or do not do.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Google can't do it, Microsoft can't do it, Warner can't do it, the government can't do it, what makes you think usenet administrators would be capable of doing it?
You do understand that people can post binaries anywhere they can post text right? or photos or PDF's.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Citations needed for each case.
For Usenet, they could have resolved almost all of the issues by no longer carrying the binaries. They chose not to. You don't have to be a genius to cut out almost all of the piracy on usenet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Simply because despite claims there is also a lot of binary legal content. And why should they do the rightsholders job and start sifting through it to find infringing material?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
...thereby cutting off a legal distribution channel for freeware, open source, public domain and other legal content.
But, you don't care about that as long as your masters get paid, right?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Inanimate businessmen don't do anything. They aren't a conduit for anything. It is how they are USED that counts.
When it comes to the internet, things aren't that clear. I suspect that News Service looked at pumping up the binary groups (which most of the awesome material would pass), and perhaps to add a super secret prize on file size or something to pump it up it further, but I think they figured out that most people would pay them a shitload of money for access to the legal stuff.
See, businessmen can't choose what they do, normal sane people do that. Everyone else can choose what they do or do not do.
FIFY - long live inanimate objects!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Right. Any the choose not to be the private police force of some legacy players. Unlike ICE.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Back in the day, They Might be Giants used to connect with fans through Usenet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
We also should shutdown all studios since we all know they are all drug addicts that skip taxes and are outside the law.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Let's shut down those pesky roads!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The real issue is that the Usenet hosting service refused to adapt and purge the pirated content from their threads. I too once used UseNet as a technical discussion forum, but it's an antiquated system, which has become a pirating playground.
There are legitimate reasons for many things which have been outlawed because of nefarious uses, I could list many examples of things that have been outlawed because of illegal activities and the failure to self-police those actions.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
So they have no useful function as a promotional tool - and are thus more likely to have a net negative effect on sales.
Way to go entertainment industry. Preferentially target the things that might actually help you - whilst leaving untouched the things that are more likely to be a net loss.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
So, your argument really is that email should be destroyed because it has some improper usage. Unless your argument that proven, quantifiable losses by individuals are less important than unquantified, unproven losses by corporations. In which case, we have more proof of which side your bread is buttered, so to speak...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[citation needed]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Remember, these are the same people that want to criminalize streaming content for watching it once.
[dose of reality needed]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Water is literally free from one's tap, yet people a dollar or more for bottle water.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
BTW, how's the poisoned bottled water treating you?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You mean like UMG, who consistently claimed that iTunes was a license to the music, right up until the point when they were sued for incorrect payment of royalties to artists?
Both of the above committed illegal activities, but only one of them is criminal. Can you guess which one?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Most of the time it is used only for shady business practices.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Then in the very next paragraph:
The real issue is that the Usenet hosting service refused to adapt
Wow!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Antiquated, my ass. Using 40tude Dialogue as a newsreader beats ANY forum software (this included) by a longshot in terms of convenience and features.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
They have their own servers and it gets over to other places from there.
Now they have darknets.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
LMAO! You obviously know very little about "the scene". While "scene" and "p2p" releases alike are leaked onto usenet, "scene" releases are distributed simultaneously to global, secured "topsites" (private ftp servers), and then trickle down to various forums of distribution, one of which is usenet, but you could kill every usenet provider in the world and it won't stop "scene" releases from getting distributed. No one in "the scene" releases ANYTHING to usenet....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(electronic)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Greed
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Greed
It's actions are actually damaging to its own future, that's the really irksome part of their lobbying and wailing.
The movie guys objected to the vcr on the same kinds of grounds and it and its successors have massively increased their profits.
When they lose their battles, they win financially
unfortunately now they are winning their battles and will lose in the long run.
They are like children, challenging and battling their parents.
For their own good, the very last thing that should be allowed to happen is for them to get their way, that way lies misery for everyone.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Indeed, but if it wasn't for the 'free' music people can tune into - how much less content would they be able to sell?
How many music recordings have you bought without hearing for 'free' first? Many?
I have bought close to zero without hearing it first. Licensing aside - 'Free' radio has clearly driven more music sales than any other kind of advertising for sure - nothing else is even close.
Why? Because people can hear it first, for free.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This won't last, of course
And believe me, if they think Usenet's an issue now, they're going to have a real headache when we unleash this.
But we're certainly not going to allow a mere few bullies who can't adapt to tell us how to run the Internet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This won't last, of course
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: This won't last, of course
That was tried a few years ago and was highly unreliable.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This won't last, of course
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This won't last, of course
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: This won't last, of course
Archer. Lol. By far one of the most entertaining things on tv. (In my opinion of course.)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Don't consume it but if you do go the illegal way and pay nothing to them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Complete bullshit. Just stop spreading alt.binaries.* and you stop 99% of all illegal materials on Usenet. Why is that so hard?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Response to: Alex Hagen on Nov 7th, 2011 @ 4:06pm
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
And you could stop 99% of illegal postal activity by banning the shipments of packages. Is that a good idea?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
RE: you are ALL wrong
SO ban bullets for guns and people from the internet
See how simple logic is
(yes this IS sarcasm, DUH! IDIOTS)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: RE: you are ALL wrong
You say this in jest, but it's already happening.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: RE: you are ALL wrong
No, bullets don't kill people, it's the bullet holes that kill them. ;-)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
When similar issues come home to the United States, I expect (and really hope) that our courts will see it differently.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
I'm not arguing that our lobbyists aren't asshats. That's basically their job. I just believe (and really hope) they can be over come for the common good here.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Easynews
Makes me wonder why NSE went down without a fight.
I'd really like to see the EFF help out with this one... of course, the RIAA also runs the risk of bringing a LOT of new subscribers to Usenet if they start a huge public war. Probably 95% of all file sharers have no idea that it even exists, so if suddenly the press is alight with stories about the "deep, dark underbelly of internet file sharing you never knew about" membership will skyrocket!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
You idiot, the only thing that chart shows is some increased revenue from live shows.
The aggregate in the real world is still down, and that chart completely ignores that pesky thing known as "inflation".
But nice try, psychopath.
Desperation is wishing to overturn the law of the land because you're unwilling to adapt.
I agree, Masnick. When are you going to come to grips with the fact that copyright is here to stay?
People have adapted to that notion for centuries now. When are you going to bring yourself into the world of reality?
Once again: I offer to you my services free of charge.
Sorry, but I already have numerous interns. And they would eat your sorry ass alive.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Sure, the words look pretty. But as you can see, he undermines himself. You don't chagrin him, for that merely riles him up and forces out his troll-like tendencies. Instead, you use the power of logic against him. For example:
You idiot, the only thing that chart shows is some increased revenue from live shows.
Now if you look at the chart here, you'll notice that there are five different topics for discussion. Live revenue, recorded revenue, and PRS revenue. So already, he's wrong. Then you look at the next topic of contention:
The aggregate in the real world is still down, and that chart completely ignores that pesky thing known as "inflation".
One does not follow the other so it's easily dismissed. We have no way of understanding why the aggregate is down save the fact that there are competitors to the music industry that Anon does not know about. The inflation thing is a red herring so pay it no heed.
So let's go on to the next part:
When are you going to come to grips with the fact that copyright is here to stay?
Now if you follow the blog, you'll notice that copyright is getting more and more egregious, and preventing a lot of legal behavior. Will copyright "stay" in its current form forever? I highly doubt it. The more a business uses copyright enforcement against consumers, the more likely that business will hemorrhage money.
So don't let Anon taunt you. He likes to try to get a rise out of people, but when he's wrong (which is always) he's so far out there that you can just point and laugh instead of taunting him.
*The more you know*
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Usenet would adapt
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This, the ease of manipulating file names, location, and structure, is much of what makes it impossible to simply screen out infringing files as maximalists think can be done. That and the sheer number of files one would have to go through. A number that is easily and rapidly increased with the merest amount of time and effort. Also, maximalists fail to state how one distinguishes an infringing file from a non-infringing one. What characteristics in the file itself make one different from the other, if any. In actuality, there is no difference. None whatsoever. There is no structural or operational difference, for example, between an mp3 file bought on iTunes and one of the same song downloaded from the Pirate Bay. They are identical. And, given both and not saying which came from where, it is virtually impossible for anyone to tell them apart or to determine with any certainty their point of origin.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
"It seems our resident maximalists do not comprehend... facts"
That's really all you need to know.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
binaries on usenet have always been *stupid*
The majority of alt.* groups not dealing with binaries are overrule with spammers. Most of us have simply moved on to other things, having grown up and grown out of the contentiousness and waste of time that Usenet's alt groups have become.
Usenet has been dead since AOL first flooded us with the Army of Lamers in the 1980s.
In the meantime, you can still get free usenet from google, minus the lame alt.binaries groups.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]