Swiss Government Says File Sharing Isn't A Big Deal; Artist Are Fine, Industry Should Adapt
from the welcome-to-section-301 dept
Well this is interesting. Switzerland, which has been a party to the ACTA negotiations, but last we checked had not signed on yet, has put out a report from its executive branch, basically completely downplaying the issue of file sharing. The report notes, accurately, that consumers are still spending just as much on entertainment, and lots of it are going to artists. The only real problem seems to be a for a few big foreign gatekeepers who are getting cut out of the new revenue streams... and as far as the Swiss government is concerned, those companies should just learn to adapt. It specifically says that concerns about file sharing having a "negative impact on the Swiss cultural creativity are unfounded."The report also rejects ideas like a three strikes plan or any sort of internet filtering. Three strikes is rejected for interfering with free speech rights, while filtering goes against privacy rules and might also degrade overall internet performance. Perhaps most interesting, the report rejects an idea for compulsory licensing -- something that has been gaining some support, but is a really bad idea. The Swiss report notes that existing media levies are incredibly unpopular with voters who know that the money isn't really going to artists, and separately they fear that it would get in the way of "international treaty obligations." I wonder if ACTA is a part of what they mean there.
Either way, you have to wonder if this stance means that Switzerland just bought itself a place on the US government's ridiculous Special 301 Report, which is basically the US government putting countries on a "naughty list," for infringement if enough rightsholders complain.
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Filed Under: adapting, file sharing, innovation, switzerland
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Somebody Finally Got It RIGHT!
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Where do politicians stash their brib--excess campaign funding? What kind of bank account?
No one is gonna mess with the Swiss.
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Record Labels Listen To Swiss Government; Immediately Increase International Bri...Uh...Lobbying Budget
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Re: Well...
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Operation: In Our Sites
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WHEW!
Thank god, what were we to do without that literal GLUT of swiss cultural creativity?
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For reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Switzerland
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Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
http://www.reghardware.com/2011/12/05/swiss_insist_piracy_is_no_harm_to_copyright_owners/
"There's nothing quite like the blissful safe-haven feel to Switzerland is there? Last year, the Federal Court ruled tracking companies were not allowed to log IP addresses of file-sharers, making it virtually impossible to prosecute the casual P2P user."
(Knew you'd be compelled to post this, Mike, so saved the link from YESTERDAY.)
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Technical question
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Re: Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
First, nice use of Godwin's Law though it has no relevance to this topic OR the current state of Swiss policy -> +1
Number 2: Due to extreme pressure over the last decade UNDER AT LEAST TWO DIFFERENT PRESIDENTS FROM OPPOSING POLITICAL BASES, the Swiss have been closing down the secret bank accounts and report banking activity to the US Government regarding US citizen accounts that have caused most of the haven shoppers to take their business elsewhere.
Please do a little more studying before you try putting your foot in your mouth...at least the taste of the previous "meal" will not be as strong on the tongue...
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Like it or not the labels actually do help unknown acts record music and get that music to the masses. Musicians are given advances that allow them to "quit their day job" and concentrate on music - that wont happen without the labels. Removing the record labels will actually harm the diversity of new acts that are able to record music.
Congratulations Switzerland, you have created a new home for the pirate industry. Unfortunately, our cultural heritage will suffer.
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You heard it hear first, folks!
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Re: Technical question
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Re: Re: Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
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Personally, I would like all artists to give away their music, then I wouldn't have to spend any money. I don't go to concerts and I won't buy t-shirts, posters, or anything else they market, I'm interested in the recorded music (and I will pay for the music if they charge me for it, but not the extra junk).
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Entertainment industry execs? Not so much.
Government granted monopolies are like heroin for businesses and the RIAA is jonesing real bad right now.
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This is so adorable. You actually thing you can control the flow of information. So cute.
"Personally, I would like all artists to give away their music, then I wouldn't have to spend any money. I don't go to concerts and I won't buy t-shirts, posters, or anything else they market, I'm interested in the recorded music (and I will pay for the music if they charge me for it, but not the extra junk)."
Soooo...you have ZERO interest in supporting the artists? It seems that all you want is free music. Unfortunately for you, there is a small risk in obtaining free music if you get caught (i.e., paying a fine). Perhaps you were already caught once? That would certainly explain your bizarre logic.
You come across as a frustrated pirate. Maybe you should move to Switzerland?
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Um. Like they sign many artists from Switzerland today?
Some of you will applaud this initially as a win, but as the diversity of new music begins to wane you will see the results of this decision.
That makes absolutely no sense. The big record labels have never been about diversity of new music. They've been about the reverse, because their whole model was based on lowest common denominator huge hits, backed with tons of marketing.
The diversity in music you see today mainly comes from indie artists, finding their own niche online.
Your claims don't pass the laugh test.
Like it or not the labels actually do help unknown acts record music and get that music to the masses.
Which Swiss musician has the major labels brought to the masses?
Congratulations Switzerland, you have created a new home for the pirate industry. Unfortunately, our cultural heritage will suffer.
That's just wrong.
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I agree with creative commons. The artist should ALWAYS be credited and I believe they should have a say about people using his/her works commercially.
Other than that, trying to stop piracy is just pointless. It's like trying to stop a Tsunami with a Tennis racquet.
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Did you know it is illegal to hang laundry, wash your car, or mow your lawn on a Sunday in Switzerland?
If these people are the pinnacle of civilization, I want no part of it.
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Re: Re: Re: Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
In the case of banking havens, the Swiss finally recognized and acknowledged the errors of their ways to a great extent, even if not very loudly (loud would not be Swiss).
The issue here is that they took a look and quite reasonably saw the overreach, the political points they could gain with their citizens at showing a backbone after having their moral fiber widely questioned, and the realization of what this issue actually is - a power grab by the Entertainment industry at the expense of all other industries because they are trying to use the law to stifle competition and innovation due to a lack vision and ability to adapt.
Don't be so certain that their new backbone will not stiffen further with more pushing...
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Re: Re: Technical question
But I am still going to side with you that it would not pass legal muster
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Labels are good for getting started, they become a hindrance for artist after they have established themselves.
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No it won't - the Swiss have direct democracy. Any such law can be voted down by the people.
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You can now produce perfectly presentable results yourself using consumer level equipment at home. Where have you been for the last 20 years?
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You know why this is possible? DAW software. You just don't need $100,000 worth of recording equipment to produce a decent sounding record anymore.
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Regarding conscription, plenty of other European countries do it to and the US keeps every male on their "you may be conscripted if we feel like it" list. None of these conscripts actually serve outside of Switzerland and the militia only exists to ensure all Swiss citizens know how to defend their country if invaded.
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If the Swiss government proposed "caving to pressures from the US" it would trigger a referendum and get voted down.
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I don't get the knowledge of a seasoned board operator, but then maybe that's not the sound I want...
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I repeat : Where have yopu been the last 20 years?
Given sufficient time an amateur can match professional quality.
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Re: You know how the record companies will "adapt"?
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I'd be really happy with the kind of home studio setup like Ronald Jenkees has.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ronaldjenkees?blend=1&ob=4#p/a/u/0/ZQ-FC3DLKwc
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I am not saying I like them any more than others who do not like them, just that they are a derivative of civilized behavior which has at its core some restrictions on what people can or cannot do based on contract or agreement.
This too is civilized behavior whereas anarchy might be preferential to some, it is far from being civilized when you look at it this way...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
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Like direct democracy!
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Careful, your troll colors are showing.
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No.
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Re: Re: Re: Technical question
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
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For now.
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No, I mean gatekeeper. In the past, the kind of capital required to produce and edit quality recordings and distribute them across the globe was way, WAY out of the league of your average musician, and hence they had to go through gatekeepers to get exposure.
How much does it cost today to edit music on your home computer and upload it to the internet? Yeah.
Your argument is from 50 years ago. It's time to catch up.
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FTFY
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Two consenting parties where the power differential between the two is very great and the law further disadvantages the less powerful.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Regular_service
Watch where you tread.
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Wasn't there a whole new genre in the 90's based on the "homebrewed garage sound" called Grunge? So I guess some people like it.
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No - we avoided the comparison because musicians becoming rich is not a positive. Musicians earning an adequate living and producing good music is a better comparison - and there are far more of those now than ever before.
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Are you really so stupid that you don't see this point? Or are you being willfully stupid.
To me it is blatantly obvious that the structure of contracts is determined by the balance of power between the parties - and the balance of power is determined in the short term by mopney - but in the long term by techmnology.
How on earth do you not understand that.
What do you think would have happened if the first recording/copying device invented had been the personal mp3 recorder?
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All obsolete now.
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But it's not like Switzerland is alone here . . .
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A friend of mine is in a band and they do all their own recording and editing and it sounds great, because their music is great.
I would figure this is obvious, but I'll say it anyway, music is about music. If technology brings an end to the multimillionaire musician and multimillionaire producers I don't really care. As long as there are musicians who care about music there will always be diversity. And they may not be super rich, but they will be able to make a living. That should be enough to anyone who actually cares about their art and expression. For everyone who doesn't make music because they can't make enough money to have private jets and 30 room mansions with private movie theaters, they weren't worth the millions they would have made.
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I'm saying this in reply to what you said but more aimed at the AC you replied to. There's a band called Clutch. Amazing band. Huge, but not Lady Gaga huge (obviously). They have a great outlook. This isn't an exact quote, but their view on music is simple and is as follows: "As long as we make enough money to pay the bills, are able to keep touring and playing in front of our fans and keep recording kickass albums then we'll keep doing what we're doing. We may not be huge, but we don't need to be. We do it because we love what we're doing."
I'd personally rather there be more Clutch like bands in the world than over produced and over played radio friendly hits and bands. That's just me though. If you haven't heard of the band, check 'em out. From Beale St. To Oblivion is an amazing album. "Electric Worry" being one of the stand out tracks.
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But what I really want to ask is a hypothetical question: should the strength of copyright be related to how much the property cost to produce? Perhaps we need some sort of graded system .
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Further, the whistleblower in the US got a lot of persecution for what he did. So unless you have something I'm missing, I doubt one bank's disclosure really says much about the rest of the banking structure.
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Re: NO... JUST FLAT OUT HELL NO
And before you start talking about the 'studio cost of production', they really didn't need to pay the Executive's nephew 5 million to tell his friends on facebook about the coming movie (charged to production costs as 'viral marketing'), but they did, and just because they did it doesn't mean that they are entitled to more protection.
Take it back to a register to receive the copyright for 10 years, with increasing fees to extend it in 5 year increments, and it might be closer to a 'fair' system. Giving those with money the power to buy more rights just because they can waste more money than a reasonable person would when making a movie doesn't mean they should be rewarded for it.
If someone pays $10 million to make a great movie, does that make it any less deserving of full copyright protection than a studio producing a cookie cutter comic book regurgitation/remake for $300 million? Wolverine? Captain America? Thor? I'm not saying they aren't great stories, but they are no original, and just because the studios spent lots of money producing a public domain work doesn't mean they are entitle to any more protection than the little guy who's producing original content...
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Re: Re: Re: Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
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I am the original AC and my point was that record companies aren't keeping artists from being successful, an accusation someone else made. I refuted that claim by pointing out that there are many artists who are multi-millionaires because of the record companies.
Personally I don't care whether someone chooses to sign with a label or not. The general attitude on this site is that of complete contempt for the labels. and in many cases the scorn is unjustified. Yes, some labels have cheated some artists out of money. But labels have also created careers for people who never would have been successful otherwise.
Vilify the labels for what they do wrong, but don't blame them for defending their legal rights (as copyright holders) and requesting stronger tools for the enforcement of existing copyright laws. Basically my understanding of the new laws that SOPA will create do two things: (1)force payment providers and ad placement services to stop sending money or ads to sites accused of infringement. (2)Force DNS providers to redirect traffic away from sites accused of infringement.
There is an appeals process built into the law.
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That goes way beyond enforcement of the law (an immoral law by the way).
In this law mere accusation brings immediate penalties.
There is an appeals process built into the law.
If you can afford it - and by the time you get through the appeals process your business is trashed.
You said at the beginning of your comment "That is the beauty of having a choice, isn't it? ".
The point is that the labels are trying to destroy that choice.
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Or you are one of those that believe every law is just and needs to be obeyed without question?
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(1)force payment providers and ad placement services to stop sending money or ads to sites accused of infringement, creates a fertile environment for abuse and corruption. (2)Force DNS providers to redirect traffic away from sites accused of infringement, puts everybody in risk, not to mention the also fertile environment for abuse and corruption.
And no appeal process can make up for that kind of thing.
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That's not "adapting", that would be "accelerating their own demise."
Record companies make money by selling records. If they sign fewer artists, they'll (by definition) have fewer records to sell. If they keep their same business model, but just "sign fewer artists", they'll just hasten their own irrelevance.
Fail. Your argument assumes that the only way for diversity to increase is through recording companies. This is not just provably false, but proven false. Recording companies are responsible for the most homogenous, inane pablum that exists. Diversity comes from independent artists, who are not pressured to make their music sound exactly like every other band.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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So, let's stay on topic. The issue here is digital piracy and infringement. Your wikipedia link is lovely, and luckily as a musician I've enjoyed playing Montreux Jazz Fest twice is the past 5 years and toured extensively through the nation. I've played in Zurich, Geneva, Montreux, Biel Bien, Basel, Thun, and a few other lovely areas.
My experience? Switzerland is a wealthy, beautiful and a mostly boring country. That said, their cultural output of copyrighted media that could be infringed or pirated is a pittance, and their political views and legal judgements reflect that.
To even attempt to extrapolate a theory based their decision is cute, but a bit silly considering their media output, GDP and wealth distribution don't you think?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
I suspect the American courts will deal with that bit of silliness in due course.
The only major flaw, well fatal really, is that the recording industry did not offer a service similar to Napster when it got going so there was no service to sell in respect of people wanting singles from CD's rather than 11 or 12 bad songs -- they wanted the good one. (Another failure in customer service.) So people shared, even at dead slow dialup speeds.
And a recording isn't a service it's a product. Folks like lawyers, dentist, veteranarians and doctors provide a service. The recording industry sells a product.
A product, such as the CDs has no intrinsic or real value if no one wants it. Such as the crappy CDs of the day that brought about Napster and it's copycats.
Now as to willing to pay, generally after "trying it out" people are. But you don't seem to believe that so there's no point in kicking you in the general direction of studies that say that cause you're mind is about as open as a rusty steel trap.
But. please, please learn the difference between a service and a product. That kind of simple confusion is only going to convince me you're blue.
Which begs the question of why you didn't bother to log in or is it that DH said something about weird sex to you again?
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That's why the all sound like they all come from out_of_the_blue's family.
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http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/alabama
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Denigrating Swiss Intellectual Property
I call your bluff.
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Re: Denigrating Swiss Intellectual Property
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Special 301 Report
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Re: Technical question
What you mean is: It's legal to _DOWNLOAD_ for personal use. Of course it is. It's actually just about legal everywhere on planet earth (or at least, it was until a few years ago; it might have changed in your jursidiction).
It's absolutely NOT LEGAL to MAKE PUBLIC any work for which you do not have the necessary rights.
But it doesn't matter between which of your computers you transfer your files -- all it matters is that you do not offer them to the public.
Didn't your ever read _your_ copyright law?
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By keeping the Status Quo? You fucking nitwits expanded Copyright to kingdom-come the last few decades, and exported every thumbscrew-measure to the rest of the world, and now you're accusing a state that is just keeping tha status quo of "creating a new home for the pirate industry."?
Thank you very much. Go away. Disintegrate yourself.
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Money transfers get spied upon
https://www.privacyinternational.org/article/german-lander-commissioner-legal-analysis-condem ns-swift-transfers-us
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Swiss Laws
And this page about swiss laws is total bogus. About half of those "laws" are regulations pertaining to habitants of very specific appartment buildings (presumably the authors). Some of them (like the one regarding absinthe or mowing your garden on sunday) were revoked something like 20 years ago.
If you want to read them, all the laws are here (and even in english): http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/rs.html
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Re: Switzerland was a "safe haven" for Nazi gold, too.
-> banking secrecy only makes sure the government can't just snoop into your savings. Instead it's your bank's job, just like a true libertarian country should do (I'm looking at you United States...).
For the record though the US has asked for records about its citizens who have opened a bank account in Switzerland. That means there's a box to check if you are from the US when you want to open an account in any Swiss bank. If you check that, your application goes directly to the shredder.
Truly the march of progress...
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