Opinion Piece On CBS Says Chris Dodd Should Be Fired For His 'Intransigent' Position On SOPA/PIPA

from the working-together? dept

Mon, Dec 19th 2011 2:57pm — Mike Masnick

Over the last few months, MPAA boss Chris Dodd has been promoting SOPA and PIPA by repeating the refrain that Hollywood and Silicon Valley shouldn't be fighting each other, and they need to work together. However, the reality is something entirely different. By "working together" he seems to mean "the tech community should just agree to everything Hollywood wants, no matter how counterproductive." He's missed no opportunity to exclude the input of the tech industry (and even the wider content industry). This isn't a huge surprise. Dodd has a history of playing fast and loose with the facts, as well as flip-flopping when politically convenient. This includes his promise not to work as a lobbyist just a short while before taking over the MPAA -- a lobbying organization.

But it's nice to see that some have finally had enough of Chris Dodd's claims here -- and even from within his supposed "supporters." CBS has been a supporter of SOPA/PIPA, but CBS News has an opinion piece by Brad Chase, about how the tech world and Hollywood need to work more closely together, and the first key point they make is that Chris Dodd has been obstructionist on this point and needs to go:

Like the American Civil War, a polarizing figure is at the heart of the rift between North and South. Whereas Abraham Lincoln recognized the inherent need for a united house, MPAA chairman Chris Dodd has no such noble intent or practical understanding. The intransigent former senator - no stranger to putting self-interest above the cause from his days pandering to the banking industry - has done everything possible to widen the rift between Hollywood and Silicon Valley. He's made a huge mistake systematically shutting the tech industry out of the conversation and trying to unilaterally push through new regulation. The 21st century merging of content and delivery platforms creates a natural partnership in this fight, but Dodd stands in the way. It's time the MPAA gives Dodd a one-way ticket back to Washington.

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Filed Under: censorship, china, chris dodd, pipa, principles, protect ip, sopa, us
Companies: mpaa

73 Comments

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crade (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 2:07pm

They missed #5 - Get a reality check and realize that Radio, Photocopiers, Betamax, VHS, Pencils and the Internet are not armagedon and we don't need to start passing emergency laws to save the world no matter the cost. Get a frickin grip people.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:03pm

interesting comments about espinel too
From the article:

The President's "copyright czar" Victoria Espinel is ineffective and secretive. According to a Wired report on a recently announced copyright violation crackdown system, Espinel prefers backroom dealing to open discussion. While the content providers had a cozy relationship with White House officials, leading digital rights advocacy group Public Knowledge was only "sort of consulted at the end." This shady behavior is just the latest by an administration lauded for transparency but unable to back up its rhetoric.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:17pm

Not really much here. The guy is a "crisis management" type, and his answers would be mostly geared towards pacifying the public and not taking strong adversarial positions.

I think if the MPAA was trying to win a public opinion / media war about something to do with it's actions on some other issue, he might be right. But since the MPAA is literally fighting for their rights, I think he is wrong.
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crade (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:33pm

Re:
Lol, that would be the day.. The MPAA not lobbying for new powers and new laws?
Fighting for more government granted power, yes. Fighting for their rights my ass. They have those already, and a bunch more the government made up just for them they already have too. They just want more.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:35pm

Response to: Anonymous Coward on Dec 19th, 2011 @ 3:17pm
So if you are fighting for your rights it ok to repeatedly lie, prevent the other side (and neutral parties who oppose you) from joining the conversation, and trample everyone elses rights. Got it.
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crade (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:38pm

Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Dec 19th, 2011 @ 3:17pm
I have the right to keep dogs off my lawn, that makes my new law to ban dogs unquestionable.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:39pm

Re: Re:
Fighting to be able to protect their copyrights is hardly over reaching.

You pirate types are just sounding desperate and silly at this point. You never offer anything rational to the discussion; no wonder people are tuning you out. You just sound like zealots.
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:44pm

Re: Fighting to be able to protect their copyrights is hardly over reaching.
Whose copyrights are these again? Do they belong to the content creators? Or to the content publishers?

Whose creativity are we trying to encourage, exactly?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:45pm

Re: Re: Re:
The problem is the MPAA/RIAA is fighting for their rights while claiming it is for (insert synonym for broke here)(insert group here)
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ervserver (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:47pm

CBS supports SOPA?? time to boycott CBS
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crade (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:47pm

Re: Re: Re:
Protect your copyrights all you want, just stay in those damn lines and stop messing with everyone else and I'll have no problem. Also, laying off the massive corruption would be a big bonus.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:49pm

Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Dec 19th, 2011 @ 3:17pm
Wow, analogy fail.

Nice try, but just fail.
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Michael, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:51pm

Re: Re: Re:
"Fighting to be able to protect their copyrights," huh? Perhaps you meant to say "paying off congressmen, senators and judges to eliminate competition and monopolize the internet"?
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Monarch818, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:52pm

Re: Re: Re:
Where did crade mention anything about Pirating copyrighted material? He's just stating a fact. They do already have all their rights. They just want more power, not their rights. And for the record. SOPA will break parts of the internet. We will have the Great fireWall of the United States, right behind the Great fireWall of China.

Most of the rest of the world will have the free internet, while we in the U.S. will have our Government try and tell the rest of the world they should push for freedom and democracy. All the while the rest of the world will be looking at Big Brother rain tyranny over its own citizens.
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crade (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Dec 19th, 2011 @ 3:17pm
Not sure what you mean, thats all you get
"But, this law doesn't follow proper due process"
- it keeps dogs off my lawn
"But it hurts a bunch of other people"
- it keeps dogs off my lawn
"Nobody agrees with your idea"
- it keeps dogs off my lawn
"BUT IT DOESNT EVEN KEEP DOGS OFF YOUR DAMN LAWN"
- it keeps dogs off my lawn
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 3:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Bullshit: http://www.hightechforum.org/my-dns-filtering-research-before-house-sopa-panel/
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crade (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Theres one in every family, but I'd like better assurances than one dude who dissagrees with all the best engineers who say it's a bad idea.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Dec 19th, 2011 @ 3:17pm
I may not know anything about dogs or lawns but I am a representative of the Untied States government and agree with you completely.
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The eejit (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You know, that sounds similar to the anti-vaccination groups - get one person to disagree, then hold that up as THE BASTION OF RATIONALITY.
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Anonymous, 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:19pm

Re: interesting comments about espinel too
I don't think "lauded for transparency" is accurate. The administration *claims* to believe in transparency, but hasn't been transparent about anything and I don't think anyone buys their claims anymore.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
there are more, and this is the one the committee is looking to. There not stupid, they know there's an agenda in play
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You know, that sounds similar to the anti-vaccination groups - get one person to disagree, then hold that up as THE BASTION OF RATIONALITY.

Happy to hear the opposing response. SOunds like the opponents have been less than honest in their analysis
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:29pm

Re:
so does nbc, fox and abc and virtually everyone else on tv. Enjoy your life as a Monnonite
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dwg, 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Dec 19th, 2011 @ 3:17pm
Yea, no, it's not a fail at all, mate. See, it's an analogy about an overreaching argument. Get it yet?
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Nathan F (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:48pm

Re: Re:
Considering I don't watch TV or listen to the radio I guess I'm already doing that.
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dwg, 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:49pm

Re: Re:
(1) E, not O

(2) Works for me. I boycott them all already. Nothing new for me to do. Next!
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not at all. Anyone with any common sense can understand the concepts that engineer wrote.

Masnick has been lying to everyone about this "break the Internet" meme, and now he's been busted.
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lucidrenegade (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 4:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If only you people would die off and stop polluting the human gene pool.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 5:00pm

I say fire him for not telling how much each senator, and congressman's vote costs, I say don't vote for anyone. Let's see how that goes, maybe we can get a price line, then maybe we could buy thier votes on amazon. At least then we would see the costs of thier hypocrisy. no votes equal no money, let them explain thier win's then. Election year is a joke, If you think your vote matters, you are more ignorant than who you vote for. stupidity breeds stupidity. Stop it now learn your vote makes no difference, unless you give over a million to pay for it. I say GROW UP Americans, stand up if you can.
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lucidrenegade (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 5:00pm

Re: Re: Re:
I wondered what the hell a Monnonite was.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 5:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
How much does your vote cost?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 5:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Eejit, for once we agree. I think that Mike is working very hard to find people who oppose SOPA, and then attempts to make it look like there is some sort of massive grassroots campaign against SOPA - where there really is not.

There has been some action, some organized events (like the phone calling thing), but honestly, without simply point and click tools and the advantage of the anonymous world, most of these people wouldn't have gotten off their duffs for anything.

There will always be people who oppose a new law, they will write their op-eds and their blogs, they will make their little protests, and they will kick and scream. But it's the silent majority that generally carries the day. No matter how much Mike works to find people who oppose SOPA (and aren't directly attached to EFF or it's offspring), the more desperate it all looks.
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 5:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sort of like a Laddite, but with extra cheese topping and a grapefruit chaser.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 5:45pm

It would be nice if this opinion piece were to be showed on the CBS evening news.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 6:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Your entire paper misses the point and instead builds its own strawman and shoots it down.

The point is not that websites ordered to be taken down break the rest of the Internet and hence breaking websites that weren't ordered to be removed. The point is that websites being taken down before having an opportunity to an adversarial hearing makes it too easy for people to take websites down without good cause. This, in effect, can be used to remove many websites for little to no reason placing an undue burden on those accused to prove their innocence before having their website reinstated. People shouldn't be guilty until proven innocent, they should be innocent until proven guilty.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 6:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not the most reliable source.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/08/24/zdnets-george-ou-exposed-as-ignorant-microsoft-s hill-zoon/
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 6:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If only you people weren't so addicted to content that you had to rip it off, then this bill wouldn't exist.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 6:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"My research on DNS Filtering"

and your 'research' isn't any research, it's nothing more than a one sided opinion piece that doesn't really address anything. Instead of posting links, why not discuss the issue. Do you have anything you would like to discuss in particular?

"Yet Paul Vixie is the inventor of DNS filters, so it is self-evident that he does not think his invention is ineffective."

http://www.hightechforum.org/dns-filtering-is-essential-to-the-internet/

Wait ... what? Not all inventions are a success. In fact, most fail. Thomas Edison probably failed many many times before he came up with a successful invention. Will Edison proclaim that all his failed inventions were a success?

"The claim that DNS Filtering can easily be bypassed by content pirates is misguided because it fails to recognize the purpose of DNS Filtering. The purpose of DNS Filtering is not to stop end users from pirating content, the purpose is to stop counterfeit goods and copyright infringing websites from posing as legal sites and charging paying customers for advertising time or direct compensation."

http://www.hightechforum.org/my-dns-filtering-research-before-house-sopa-panel/

No one is failing to understand the purpose of DNS filtering. Everyone understands it just fine. The DMCA had a similar purpose .... how did that work out for you?

"The engineers who are claiming that DNS Filtering would break the security extension standard for DNS called DNSSEC, and thereby break Internet Cybersecurity. This is because a website whose DNS was blocked by court order cannot operate in secure DNSSEC mode. I refuted this argument in my paper, pointing out that the purpose of the court order is to completely break access to those websites whether they were running in non-secure DNS mode or secure DNSSEC mode."

No, you haven't refuted anything ... in fact, you haven't even addressed the argument being made. Instead, in typical IP maximist fassion, you built a strawman and shot it down. Here, I'll even do your homework for you and paste the relevant text from the PDF file.

"Users running secure applications have a need to distinguish between policy-based failures and failures caused, for example, by the presence of an attack or a hostile network, or else downgrade attacks would likely be prolific."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=protect-ip-technical-whitepaper-final.p df&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.circleid.com%2Fpdf%2FPROTECT-I P-Technical-Whitepaper-Final.pdf&ei=7_PvTubAPNTXiQLm-qHPDg&usg=AFQjCNEhvDIS6NX5w_J9RKW2nWHRn VscVw&cad=rja
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EnJaySee, 19 Dec 2011 @ 7:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think that Mike is working very hard to find people who oppose SOPA, and then attempts to make it look like there is some sort of massive grassroots campaign against SOPA - where there really is not.

I don't think he's working very hard at all to find opposition to SOPA. It's actually quite easy to find opposition.

That being said, I kind of want to see SOPA and PIPA pass. It wouldn't take long for lobby groups to have the USA change the country's name to United Corporations of America. It would just be a formality at that point.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 7:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Your entire paper misses the point and instead builds its own strawman and shoots it down.

The point is not that websites ordered to be taken down break the rest of the Internet and hence breaking websites that weren't ordered to be removed. The point is that websites being taken down before having an opportunity to an adversarial hearing makes it too easy for people to take websites down without good cause. This, in effect, can be used to remove many websites for little to no reason placing an undue burden on those accused to prove their innocence before having their website reinstated. People shouldn't be guilty until proven innocent, they should be innocent until proven guilty.

No it is you missing the point. The hankie twisting that went on in the Judiciary Committee SOPA hearing was entirely over whether websites ordered to be taken down break the rest of the Internet. I'm glad to see you concede that is not the case, because that contention is being shot full of holes in Washington as we speak.

Your problem is with the due process aspect. FWIW, Rule 65 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure apply under SOPA. So I guess what you most object to is the fundamental fairness of FRCP. That's a real stretch to fix that in a bill.

Everyone knows that the "break the internet" cries were so much hyperbole. As George Ou has pointed out, it will not break the internet except for those sites adjudicated as rogue.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 7:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If this was a citation about an anti-SOPA source, this is where the apologists would jump in bemoaning ad him attacks replacing reasoned arguments, right?
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jupiterkansas (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 7:32pm

Re:
You mean those rights that have grown, and grown, and grown, and grown over the last century so that even long dead artists are making millions?

You mean the rights they have earned through decades of massive lobbying and campaign donations?

You mean the rights that are never, ever good enough for them, so they always want more and more?

Yeah, they should keep fighting, and we shouldn't resist. Give the artists everything they want (well, the people that own them anyway).
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 7:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"I think that Mike is working very hard to find people who oppose SOPA, and then attempts to make it look like there is some sort of massive grassroots campaign against SOPA - where there really is not."

So then where is your blog of supporters? Oh, that's right, it doesn't exist, because you can't get nearly as many supporters as Mike. That's why you're here.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 7:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
There is no massive grassroots campaign FOR SOPA either. So what?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 7:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"The hankie twisting that went on in the Judiciary Committee SOPA hearing was entirely over whether websites ordered to be taken down break the rest of the Internet."

Which is not the argument being made by the post you were replying to. and the website does build a strawman and shoot it down in ways that I addressed in the subsequent post. and even if the judiciary committee argues something, you're assuming that what they're arguing is representative of the true arguments being made by SOPA critics. It's hard to make that argument when Congress is hesitant to allow critics to discuss the matter with them during these hearings. The fact that a bunch of (clueless and bought) congressmen are arguing something hardly makes their argument representative of the true arguments being made.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 7:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"So then where is your blog of supporters? Oh, that's right, it doesn't exist, because you can't get nearly as many supporters as Mike."

Asked and answered repeatedly already. It's easy to get people to fight "against the man" and be all loud and uppity about it (see OWS as an example), but those people are the small but noisy minority in the deal. But if you are judging the popularity of something by the noise alone, then they are the "winners".

Thankfully, the politicians are not generally swayed by noisy little groups, especially when they realize that what they are asking for is a complete breakdown of existing laws.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 8:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Your problem is with the due process aspect."

One of my problems is with the aspect that may allow a cite to be taken down before having the opportunity to an adversarial hearing. I have a few other problems, like the fact that potential infringement penalties exceed penalties for false takedown requests. That's unacceptable, plaintiffs are in a better position to know if they hold protections over something than defendants.

"That's a real stretch to fix that in a bill. "

We're not talking about fixing FRCP in general, we're talking about a bill (SOPA) that enables prior restraint before the opportunity of due process. We're talking about fixing that bill so that the bill will not result in such a possibility.

"Everyone knows that the "break the internet" cries were so much hyperbole."

Yes, simply proclaim your position to be true and due away with reason and logic.

"As George Ou has pointed out, it will not break the internet except for those sites adjudicated as rogue."

George builds a strawman and shoots it down. As pointed out, SOPA could potentially cause other problems.

Allowing courts to remove sites before the possibility of an adversarial hearing itself can cause serious problems and hence 'break the Internet' or at least negatively reshape it.

Not providing sufficient disincentive for plaintiffs to file bogus takedown requests, through stricter penalties, encourages them to abuse SOPA to take down content for reasons other than infringement. That alone could cause serious problems. Penalties for bogus takedown requests should exceed penalties for infringement. But SOPA supporters refuse to allow for such a thing because they don't plan to use these laws to stop infringement, they plan to use them to stop competition.

Bad laws are already responsible for breaking everything else. Copy protection laws are broken (they last too long, infringement damages are too high and exceed damages for falsely claiming content that one has no privileges to), they broke broadcasting (self interested corporate interests now have exclusive broadcasting and cableco monopoly privileges, they abuse those privileges to censor criticisms they don't like. For instance, they would never allow Mike to criticize IP over public airwaves or on cable because they know that their position is indefensible in the face of scrutiny). Restaurants and other venues are deterred from hosting independent performers thanks to collection societies that threaten them with lawsuits if they refuse to pay a fee under the pretext that someone might infringe. As a result, outside the Internet, people almost must pay monopoly prices for almost all content. In addition to wrongfully denying me of my right to freely broadcast, the government wrongfully grants a monopoly on content (through copy protection laws) and on the distribution of that content (through broadcasting). The very intent is to deter the creation of permissibly licensed and public domain content. Look around you, everything outside the Internet is broke thanks to bad laws. and those who wanted those bad laws passed made similar arguments that you did. "FCC broadcasting monopolies won't result in censoring free speech". That turned out to be wrong. Now our government wrongfully grants monopoly power over almost everything (ie: taxi cab monopolies) and the public is mostly unaware thanks to the fact that the government has also granted monopolies to communication.

So it's hardly a stretch to say that SOPA will cause huge problems and that it's intended to. So many of our other laws are corrupt, this law looks corrupt (and some of the politicians pushing for it have received massive campaign contributions from those who want these laws), it's hardly a stretch to say that this law is corrupt like all of the many other laws. Government doesn't intend for this law to be socially beneficial, it intends for this law to be corrupt like all of the many other corrupt laws that exist. If government does care about the general public its first order of business would be to substantially repeal our existing copy protection laws by reducing infringement penalties, increasing the penalties for claiming something that one has no privileges to and for filing bogus takedown requests, making copy protection opt in and requiring a centralized database where works can get stored and referenced so that people can better know if something is infringing and so that content can later be released when it does enter the public domain (say, the LOC) for the public to enjoy, substantially shortening copy protection lengths, etc...

The only acceptable course of action congress can take right now is to substantially repeal copy protection laws. Expanding them and their enforcement is not acceptable and it's not in the public interest.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 8:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
he only acceptable course of action congress can take right now is to substantially repeal copy protection laws.

Well, good luck with that.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 8:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Asked and answered repeatedly already. It's easy to get people to fight "against the man" and be all loud and uppity about it (see OWS as an example), but those people are the small but noisy minority in the deal. But if you are judging the popularity of something by the noise alone, then they are the "winners".

What I find so freaking adorable about you, is how easy it is to prove you wrong.

Net Neutrality got similar online support, and it wasn't "fighting against" something, but fighting for something. And a lot of the same folks are involved in this fight.

Care to try again, or shall we just call it a day and note that TAM's got no game, as per usual?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 8:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Thankfully, the politicians are not generally swayed by noisy little groups, especially when they realize that what they are asking for is a complete breakdown of existing laws."

No, politicians are generally clueless and bought. The following links provide a better explanation

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100408/1003328938.shtml

http://www.techdirt.com /articles/20111217/22470217117/senator-harry-reid-moves-to-approve-protect-ip-begin-censoring-intern et.shtml#c146

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111206/09551716990/as-expected-sopa-supporters-h ate-more-reasonable-alternative.shtml#c320

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111203/00494716961/ some-data-how-much-big-media-firms-are-donating-to-sopapipa-sponsors.shtml

http://www.techdirt.co m/articles/20111214/17420517091/revolving-door-sixteen-former-judiciary-committee-staff-are-lobbying -congress-concerning-sopa.shtml

http://politics.slashdot.org/story/11/12/18/1836249/sopa-creator- in-tvfilmmusic-industrys-pocket

"Asked and answered repeatedly already. It's easy to get people to fight "against the man" and be all loud and uppity about it (see OWS as an example), but those people are the small but noisy minority in the deal."

[citation needed]

and your post was already addressed the last time. Read the responses to your post.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111214/10213817084/call-congress-today-let-them-know-aga in-that-you-are-against-sopa.shtml#c23

"but those people are the small but noisy minority in the deal."

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111219/04440117128/poll-suggests-americans-all-ages-pol itical-positions-locations-all-hate-sopa.shtml

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111208/03011717 005/entertainment-industry-still-cant-get-grassroots-support-sopapipa-resorts-to-trying-to-buy-suppo rt.shtml

and I can go on.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 19 Dec 2011 @ 8:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Bullshit: http://www.hightechforum.org/my-dns-filtering-research-before-house-sopa-panel/

You can keep pointing to George Ou all you want. It doesn't make him any more credible. Look, 83 engineers signed a letter against SOPA/PIPA. Every single one of them have fired people of much greater skill that Ou has ever had. He's a policy wonk, not an engineer.

I know that your side is desperate for a tech champion, but Ou is not going to do it. Trust me.

You're trying to line up a third string little leaguer against the major league all-star team. Lamar Smith can pretend Ou has some credentials all he wants, but it'll only seal Smith's fate. Seriously, using someone like Ou as your go to guy on this is going to backfire for you guys badly. You don't role out the paid-in-full "policy guy who sorta knows a little tech" when you're facing off against the guys who built the internet.

Unless you want to be made to look foolish.

But if you want to go that route, it'll be great to use that against you guys for the next decade plus.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 10:04pm

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do away *
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 10:41pm

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The pirates are not the ones worried about legislation.
You monopolist types are the ones sounding really desperate, talking about censorship and the end of freedom.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 10:48pm

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I just read something writing from a real liar and it was not from Mr. Masnick.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 10:57pm

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Mr. Masnick doesn't need to work hard to find anybody opposed to something that everyone is opposed to, which creates a lawn called "no censorship on my lawn", and the fact that people did something just proves that people care, things like the Tea Party and Occupy movements started on the internet too and grew to be something else, eventually those people you say can do nothing and won't do nothing can find a way to just click on things to achieve something. The irony in all of this is that millions of pirates were as lazy as you say the industry wouldn't have a perceived problem now would it?

The silent majority is opposed to censorship, you can ask anywhere where any citizen is going to give copyright owners more powers that will result in whole sale censorship of their lifes and they all will say "screw you".
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 11:00pm

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And if only if copyright was enforceable this law wouldn't exist, the reality is that, people can change their content consumption but copyright can't change fast enough to be viable in the 21th.
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 11:16pm

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It breaks the internet how could it not?
Anybody who understands how it works knows that and you are trying to say it magically isn't the case?

As for your rule 65, does it not apply equally to the DMCA?
Search for "DMCA used for censorship" and see how many hits you get in any search engine of your choice even the distributed ones like Faroo, YaCy, openCola(i.e. Cory Doctorow tech).

If people are forced to use other DNSes to find what they are looking for how this is not going to fragment the actual DNS system and force the halt of efforts to secure the internet?

Quote:
Operation Ghost Click, �a multi-year operation that dismantled an international cyber ring that hacked into four million computers worldwide,� using vulnerabilities in the domain name system to do so. Falcon, a former aide to U.S. Representative Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), wrote �Hopefully, Operation Ghost Click will show Congress that DNSSEC has extraordinary value to the public and should not be sacrificed for minimal gains against Internet piracy.�

Source: https://www.dnssec-deployment.org/index.php/2011/11/can-fbis-operation-ghost-click-show-dnssecs-extr aordinary-value/

Even the government agents responsible for security are opposed to SOPA.

There is a real choice here to be made, security or economic interests driven legislation with marginal gains?
http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2011/1115_cybersecurity_friedman.aspx

You apparently want to put everyone at risk and erode their rights for your own selfish interests and want people to just accept that?
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Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2011 @ 11:20pm

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If they are the small and noise minority than we don't have a problem right since if it is small it is no problem is it?

But that is not true, you know it is a big chunk of people who dislike copyright or outright ignore it, that is why you types need more legislation to try and beat people back into obedience.

Anybody can just go out and ask their friends and see where they stand on the issue and everybody everywhere will find out the same thing nobody wants to give security up or freedoms for the likes of "content owners".
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techflaws.org (profile), 20 Dec 2011 @ 2:47am

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LOL! Busted by a sucker like this? Try harder.
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techflaws.org (profile), 20 Dec 2011 @ 2:50am

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Bullshit: http://www.hightechforum.org/my-dns-filtering-research-before-house-sopa-panel/

You nailed it.
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techflaws.org (profile), 20 Dec 2011 @ 2:59am

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No need. Piracy will continue anyway.
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techflaws.org (profile), 20 Dec 2011 @ 3:11am

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"Ou�s reputation as a shoddy writer of fact-refuting, intellectually embarrassing misinformation earns both him and ZDNet the dishonor of a Zoon award nomination for spectacularly bad work in promoting the regression of human achievement."
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TheSmokingGNU (profile), 20 Dec 2011 @ 4:35am

Outsider's point of view
I don't really know a lot about SOPA yet, but I've been researching it. I'm fairly tech savvy, I did well in computer programming classes and networking classes I've taken in the past, although I don't know all the ins and outs of DNS. However, going off of what I've read and seen so far, the arguments presented here both have points. Caveat to that statement, however, is the fact that Mr. Masnick's argument is more accurately and concisely presented. The Anonymous Coward's side (what IS your name good sir?) is mostly fluff and rhetoric, though to be fair I don't see SOPA being QUITE as bad as all that. I'd still not like to see it passed, if only because I feel there is already enough governmental interference in my life, and I quite enjoy my internet like it is: full of pirates, wenches, and gold if you look hard enough.
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Hephaestus (profile), 20 Dec 2011 @ 6:48am

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LOL .. The Freaking Adorable Anti Mike .. TFAAM
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2011 @ 7:18am

If anything, hackers include some very tech-savvy people who thus far have been able to identify vulnerabilites in every security system to date, and I have no reason to believe that this is ever going to change.

Perhaps DNSCEC will improve security, but does anyone really believe it is hack proof? If history teaches anything, it is that determined individuals can break anything by exploiting vulnerabities when and as they are identified.

If anything, DNSSEC may provide an additional measure of security, but at a gut level it seems to me that it is not a panacea as many seem inclined to believe.

Even with DNSSEC fully deployed, one cannot escape the simple fact that select sites will continue to be blocked as is the case with the DNS system.
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Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2011 @ 7:27am

Re:
By the way, even Vixie supports the blocking of sites that contain certain types of content. However, in his view the blocking of sites where IP is concerned is not important enough for him to support blocking. He is entitled to hold such a view, but this is hardly an intellectually honest basis upon which to predicate an argument that blocking will break the internet.
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emdc (profile), 20 Dec 2011 @ 1:28pm

This is why there needs to be a department of common sense that has binding, final word regarding crap like this.

"We realize that you truly believe that you're doing the country a service by proposing this bill & fighting for its passage. The problem is that you're not; now leave this issue alone & find another cause that actually matters."
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 20 Dec 2011 @ 3:38pm

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Thankfully, the politicians are not generally swayed by noisy little groups, especially when they realize that what they are asking for is a complete breakdown of existing laws.

Two words:

Tea Party
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elinruby, 20 Dec 2011 @ 8:12pm

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George Ou is a CISSP, at best a journeyman certification that possibly may get you a job as an assistant tech in a server farm somewhere. I find it astonishing that people are taking him seriously as an authority.
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elinruby, 20 Dec 2011 @ 8:26pm

Re: Outsider's point of view
Ok then as one geek to another I say -- research the DNS cache poisoning vulnerability as it applies to recursive servers. Compare to this proposal. If it's so harmless why did Microsoft rush out a patch? Next, look at the great firewall of China. Compare the technical details to this proposal. Is this really who we should be taking lessons from? In the name of one industry?

Next, talk to someone in China about how well the filter works. You can, you know... because it doesn't. They still employ millions of people in trying, which is fine if you are the government of China. If you're a 2-person startup in Silicon Valley, not so much.

For the DNS zone transfer 102 portion, check out what happens when you throw in peering. You get stuff like half of California can't reach YouTube for a couple of hours, and all because the Pakistani government was trying to block a particular video.
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elinruby, 20 Dec 2011 @ 8:33pm

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eep meant to say thousands of people, not millions...
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TheSmokingGNU (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 4:32am

Good advice!
I'll do that. I'm currently going back to school to work on a hardware support degree, but if I take another year I can tack on a network support degree too... maybe I'll do that.
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btr1701 (profile), 21 Dec 2011 @ 10:30am

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> But it's the silent majority that generally
> carries the day.

If they're silent how do you know which side they support?
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