Help Create An 'Innovation Agenda' You Wish Politicians Would Support
from the make-a-statement dept
New businesses are the key to job creation and economic growth, and the Internet is one of the most fertile platforms for new businesses ever established.From there, we have a list of twelve topics that we think are important -- but we want your input. So we've posted this same thing both here and over at our Step 2 discussion platform. Over at Step 2, we've also posted those initial twelve topics, with each one as a separate comment on the original post, so you can vote them up and down. If you want to really participate, please head on over to Step 2, where you can do three separate things (and, yes, your Techdirt login works there too):
We believe deeply in the value of decentralized, emergent, bottom-up innovation, and we want to shape public policies that will allow it to flourish.
- Suggest your own topics that should be part of an innovation agenda by responding to the main post.
- Vote on existing topics to show which ones are more important... and which ones are less important.
- Comment on the existing topics to provide feedback or suggest ways to improve them.
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Filed Under: bandwidth, bottom up, copyright, decentralized, entrepreneurship, free speech, innovation, innovation agenda, patents, privacy, spectrum
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This is merely the converse, in my opinion, of what is being said by those who hew to the position that IP is the "engine of our economy".
I submit that both are gross overstatements. The internet helps facilitate communications. IP helps facilitate the development and provisioning of goods and services. Each helps, but they are hardly job creating panaceas. They are but tools.
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Undoubtedly.
"IP helps facilitate the development and provisioning of goods and services."
Prove it.
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BTW: (Communications facilitate the internet !!!)
"The internet helps facilitate communications."
Undoubtedly.
"IP helps facilitate the development and provisioning of goods and services."
Prove it.
First, did you have any problems with communications prior to the internet ?
I remember the world before the "WEB" and we communicated JUST FINE !!.. amazing right.. I am sure you are amazed at that..
"IP helps facilitate the development and provisioning of goods and services."
Prove it.
Ok, lets try this, you explain to us, how it is possible to develop a good, without knowledge ?
That is without the application of an interlect ?
Do you believe goods and services just appear out of smoke ? or that God created it ?
Is not Masnick trying to use his intelectual property (what he knows) to provide you with a 'good or service' ?
The ignorance displayed by some people on this site is breathtaking !
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No, not with people I had been introduced to and given a method of contacting. Now I can do worldwide searches, find resources like this opinion site and communicate with people I don't even know...
how it is possible to develop a good, without knowledge ?
You can't of course, but you already knew that. Just as importantly though, you can't develop a good if you lock the knowledge away from everyone. The less restrictive you are with that knowledge, the more that can be done with it.
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I don't think anyone has claimed otherwise. However, it has been claimed that the internet has been key for more job creation than the entertainment sector.
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This is merely the converse, in my opinion, of what is being said by those who hew to the position that IP is the "engine of our economy".
I submit that both are gross overstatements. The internet helps facilitate communications. IP helps facilitate the development and provisioning of goods and services. Each helps, but they are hardly job creating panaceas. They are but tools.
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Not me. McKinsey: http://www.mckinsey.com/Insights/MGI/Research/Technology_and_Innovation/Internet_matters Perhaps the most trusted research firm out there.
I submit that both are gross overstatements. The internet helps facilitate communications. IP helps facilitate the development and provisioning of goods and services. Each helps, but they are hardly job creating panaceas. They are but tools.
Pretending that two are equal is laughable and clueless. You're wrong.
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A comment made in good faith deserves more than an impertinent response.
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A comment made in good faith deserves more than an impertinent response.
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Moreover, the Internet has the capacity to make society post-scarcity in its dealings with IP, and that positively terrifies the big players in media.
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While not receiving the high profile associated with "red carpet" attendees, the AMPAS each year honors and pays tribute to those "tool makers" who enable "Hollywood" to do what it does best.
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Why do they act as if they're terrified and fight every technology tooth-and-nail?
The eejit's point is an excellent one even leaving IP laws out of it. Without the technology industries, Hollywood would be nothing. Without Hollywood, the technology industries would be just fine.
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So you think Hollywood IS THE entainment industry, guess what the entertainment industry has been around for longer than technology, ever heard of Broadway ?, Theater? Books, stories, fables, games, conversation, music and song (played by people with real instruments not computers).
DO you honestly believe that there was no entertainment before technology ?
Ever read a book ? ever had someone 'tell you a story' ? ever seen a street performance ?
Ever seen someone playing the piano or guitar, do you know what HISTORY means or is ?
No, the entertainment industry did just fine without technology, entertainment has embraced technology, but does not rely upon it...
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You appear to have misunderstood what John Fenderson was saying, AC 19. He was not referring to entertainment in general, but rather to the specific industry built around it. Namely, Hollywood and the major music labels. There is, as you have pointed out, a very large difference between the two. The entertainment industry is not the same as entertainment in general.
In addition, while entertainment in general does exist independently of technology and always will in certain forms, Hollywood does not. The transmission of their content requires technology and would be impossible without it. Therefore, they do depend on technology for their existence.
Technology, however, does not possess the same need for them, and will continue to evolve with or without Hollywood and the major music labels. It should be noted that any content creator who wishes to reach a large audience in today's world must rely on technology to do so, whether they are aligned with the legacy media companies or not.
Technology can be proven to be independent of the entertainment industry by the simple fact that technology is often designed for purposes other than entertainment. The entertainment industry, however, exists only for that one purpose. The industry's singular focus on what it does is what makes it reliant on technology to deliver its content to a wide audience, or to even record it at all. Without technology, it could not do so. Technology's multiple applications, however, are what allow it to be independent of the entertainment industry.
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how do you explain that ?
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How do you explain that?
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However, I do want to point out that some of your examples: theater, books, and music played on instruments all depend on technology.
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I am quite sure cavemen were not able to google how to make a stone axe, and hollywood uses technology, (as everyone does), that has NOTHING to do with the internet.
you're world view is very very warped, you do not seem to be able to understand the most basic of concepts do you ?
If hollywood relied on the internet, it would not exist without it, but it DID exist well before the internet, and before 'internet' technology.
it uses technology just like everyone else uses it, but that technology is not BECAUSE the internet exists !
Hollywood did VERY WELL, before the internet was even thought of !
Hollywood did not, and could not rely on internet technologies when they made the massive hit movie "star wars".
But it did just fine, so how can you justify your 'argument' or 'logic' if the facts and reality contradict you..
So until you can align yourself to some reality, you would be better off not saying anything.. you're just making it worse for yourselves..
you trying to present stupid arguments, that any idiot or moron, can work out how you're argument makes no possible sense.. You just make yourself look very stupid, and unthinking.. but I guess your 'ok' with that.
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These are all tools, and as such are improvements that are being used for the production and presentation of new works.
Litigation by them has been limited to but a small subset of technical achievements.
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They also attacked illegal VCR tape recording, it's not the technology, it is the people who abuse a technology to commit a crime.
If you shoot someone, they dont arrest the gun, they arrest you for using the technology of a gun to commit a crime.
I know, take your time, it is a bit hard for yo'all to understand....
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Hear that trolls/shills? It's McKinsey, not Masnick you should be attacking!
From now on, anyone who asks for the "data" and "evidence" supporting the importance of the internet and job growth should take their debate up with McKinsey.
Or accuse McKinsey of being pirates and freetards. Whichever rocks your boat.
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Re: Hear that trolls/shills? It's McKinsey, not Masnick you should be attacking!
umm, 3.4% kinda sucks, as a percentage of GDP !
Most of the economic value created by the Internet falls outside of the technology sector, with 75 percent of the benefits captured by companies in more traditional industries.
and look at that, your 'perfect' source, diractly contradicts what masnick would have you believe, that it is "all about the technology", except when it is not.
so 25% of 3.4% GDP grown can be attributed to 'internet technology'.
I certainly is not in the ballpark of "major growth" or the "majority of new jobs" or new busineses employing people.
Perhaps you need to study your own research, they give you all the information, right there, give you a flashlight and a map, and you still cant find it... !
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Re: Re: Hear that trolls/shills? It's McKinsey, not Masnick you should be attacking!
To explain it simply, every year the growth in GDP, based on the internet, is larger that all of big content.
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Re: Re: Re: Hear that trolls/shills? It's McKinsey, not Masnick you should be attacking!
Can't you freak'in read ?? it's NOT LOW BALL of the GDP of the 13 countries.... !!!! idiot..
READ IT..
ON AVERAGE
Thats average, not lowest, but nice try,
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Re: Re: Re: Hear that trolls/shills? It's McKinsey, not Masnick you should be attacking!
$20 Trillion dollars, where did that number come from ?? your imagination ? You're not real bright are you !!
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why can't you support your claims with logic and reason ? why is it when you 'have your turn' to address a comment, you fall on your face ? are you hollow ? without substance ?
is your "best" is to say "you're wrong" ?
why cant you even defend your own statements and claims ? do you lack that level of depth? are you hollow ?
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Let me guess, you were absent the day they covered capitalization and sentence structure in English 101, right?
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Why? Because, one could just as easily, and with your own rants as perfect testimony to the fact, ask or better said point out that YOU obviously didn't do that well in English class in school. Given your lack of capitalization, lack of proper punctuation, and complete disregard for any of the other things that make up proper use and mastery of the written word.
Is your "best" to make snide comments and expect quick responses to all four post, each of which when posted causes the death of English teacher somewhere in the world?
I mean geez man. I look at what you write and my mind starts reeling as well as correcting all the misspellings, all the places where some of your disjointed sentences could've been put together to form proper paragraphs (and dare I say, nearly, cohesive arguments/points), etc.
Do us a favor, before you point out the flaws in others, maybe you should be sure to acknowledge and correct some of your own. That or at the very least get someone to proofread and edit your post before hitting "Submit".
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The best he seems to be able to come up with, (with all his expertise) is "You're wrong" !!!..
I guess, this is what you would call a "deflection", if you cannot think of a reasonable response attack the person. or say "You're wrong" !!!!.
If you dont like what I write, then dont fucking read it !.
Certainly dont bother to respond to it, oh you didn't, that's right, you have no argument, so attack the person..
oh well, if all you can be critical of is my english and grammer, that shows I must be saying something right. :D
Thanks for not embarrasing yourselves by trying to make a point !
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You're Missing The Point
Their goals are "Bailouts and subsidies for our supporters. Eliminate competition through crushing regulations, which act as a regressive tax."
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Re: You're Missing The Point
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Name them ?? please Masnick..
Such as ????
how about you provide an actual example !
Name a new business that has significantly contributed to employment growth in the United States ?
You MUST be able to name at least ONE !, you should be able to easily list 50 such businesses.
Yet you dont do that ?? why is that, is it because you know from the very start what you are saying is a blantant lie ?
Do you actually have any idea at all about employment and employment growth in the US ?
could you possibly name some of the employment growth sectors in the US, with examples ?
we all know why you will NOT name any companies or provide actual examples to support your 'reality'.. because you dont have any examples to show.
Not that, that stops you from writing from your delusional fantisy world..
Ofcourse, the usual idiots who allready believe you are the a living GOD, your diciples will hang of your every word.
most others will rightly see you for exactly what you are !!!
we seeyou as a person who is willing to say ANYTHING, to get yourself a few more page hits, and a bit more cash..
its funny and very sad at the same time.. but I guess once you have sold off any credability you might of ever had years ago, there is no turning back for you... and no future apart from what you are doing now !!!.
I hope you are enjoying your life time career highlight and peak !!!
I guess when you are old and retired, you will look back on these days and say to yourself, how good you were at helping people and improving your life and the lives of others because of your work !!!.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..
I guess if you are devoid of any talent, skills, knowledge or ambition. Or any real life experience, making the peak of your life career on Google, seaching for well not FACTS that is for sure.
Searching for dirt, and without much talent, you cant even find that, so next best thing I guess, is for you to just MAKE IT UP !.
as you do..
Tell us Masnick, what have you actually ACHIEVED in your life ?
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Re: Name them ?? please Masnick..
I somewhat reluctantly respond with an example from XKCD:
http://xkcd.com/399/
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No wonder you were reluctant, how does that 'example' relate to the issues being discussed here ?
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Re: Re: Re: Name them ?? please Masnick..
No-one here needs to point to a company that 'significantly contributed to employment growth in the United States', when they can simply point to all of those small individual business that do their business on the Internet every day and that have an audience simply because there is an Internet.
Rather than attempt to tear down your own strawman, why not try doing something more constructive and come up with your own suggestion of what should be done instead. Right now, after having ready your posts on this page, you aren't saying anything that would make anyone want to continue to read what you write.
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SO if you care to get some real facts, instead of just opinion, read this report. 75% of all businesses that use the internet, are TRADITIONAL (non-internet based) companies, leaving 25% of internet only businesses, and the internet contributes 3.4% on average (of 13 countries, including the US), so it is 3.4% of the 25%.
And you cannot see how such LOW figures contradict your 'argument', and shoots it down in flames..
Oh well, at least you tried to excuse Masnick from actually providing examples to support his claims, no one ever expected Masnick to give examples, because he HAS NONE !
neither do you, we'll fair enough, if you guys dont have a clue about the internet, or the law, or business, then you really dont have a clue about anything..
But if stupidity is how you keep happy, (after all it's easier than thinking), good for you, after all it's the American way..
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Name them ?? please Masnick..
GDP of the world in 2010 = approx $63 trillion.
Taking the 70% generated by the 13 countries in the report = approx $44.1 trillion
3.4% of that = approx $1.5 trillion.
Even using your 25% figure for Internet only businesses, then that makes them directly responsible for approx $375 billion.
Of course you can't just use that 25%, as the other 75% you dismiss IS affected by the existence of the Internet and would be much lower without it. No-one can say how much it actually contributes to those businesses but that doesn't mean you can just write it off either.
Then there's the fact that this is a growing figure - 21% in the last 5 years - you ignore that too. There is literally no other sector of commerce in the world that provides such growth rates.
So anyway, there are your figures - all there in the report you claim to have read.
Regards,
Not an American ;)
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Area of Interest for Energy Coal Air Fuel Cells
High Temperature Direct Coal Fuel Cell - Patent 7799472
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If copyright/IP were to disappear tomorrow, nobody would care except for the few greedy corps that want to monopolize all content. Conversely, if the internet were to disappear tomorrow, it would disrupt everything, from commerce to economy, communication to media ...you name it.
AC, tell me, in what way is copyright/IP beneficial for society? When it's used as a beating stick to punish children, old gradmothers and dead people with huge lawsuits? When it's used as justification for mass censorship? When corps are suing other corps into the ground, making people lose jobs/income, all because some stupid idea somebody came up with (or claimed to...) that needed to be protected at all costs? When a company sues another over the use of a certain shade of color? Seriously, a COLOR. Since when did everything God create become the sole property of a few rich people?
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ok, face it guy, YOU LOST THIS ONE!
Thankyou Masnick for not trying to provide any examples, or to justify your 'adjenda'.
It's not time for you to write this off, as another 'swing and miss'.
Maybe next time, you will have more luck, but with any facts, or supporting proof, all you can do is rant, rave and build an alternative reality..
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