Did Hollywood Not Use Available DMCA Tools Just To Pretend It Needed SOPA?

from the transparency's-a-bitch dept

Fri, May 25th 2012 9:11am — Mike Masnick

The more you dig into Google's new copyright transparency reports the more eye-catching info you find. Julian Sanchez, for example, has noticed the rather interesting timing of massive explosions in Hollywood studios using Google's DMCA takedown system for search... in correlation with key elements of the fight to get SOPA passed. For example, there's a really big spike in DMCA takedowns for search the week of November 14th.

Hmmm... what happened that week? Oh, that's right: the House Judiciary Committee hearings about SOPA, where part of the "evidence" for why SOPA was needed was the MPAA's anti-piracy boss Michael O'Leary insisting that doing Google searches on certain movies led you to links to pages where you could download unauthorized copies. He was wrong, actually -- as our own tests showed, they took you to legal versions. But isn't it interesting to see that, for example, the very first search takedown that Lionsgate sent to Google happened on November 15th? Similarly, it's interesting to see that right after the SOPA blackouts made it clear that SOPA was going to die... there's another new "burst" of takedown filings. Twentieth Century Fox appears not to have used the system at all until January 30th of this year -- or a week or so after SOPA was officially declared dead. How about Paramount Pictures, one of the more vocal supporters of SOPA? It filed just one search takedown prior to the whole SOPA debate. But about a month after SOPA was declared dead, suddenly Paramount started using the tool. NBC Universal certainly had been a regular user of the system all along -- but right after SOPA died, its usage clearly trended upwards -- whereas prior to that, its usage looked pretty flat.

In other words, you could certainly make a reasonable case that the studios went to Congress to complain about how they couldn't get rid of search results they don't like from Google... when they hadn't even tried to use the tools available which appear to do the job they wanted.

There certainly may be other factors, but it's possible that the studios had been holding back on using the tools as a way of providing extra "evidence" of a problem that had to be addressed by law. Again, as Sanchez points out:

How about before you break the Internet, you try USING THE F***ING TOOLS YOU ALREADY HAVE?

A reasonable question, but don't expect a reasonable answer.

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Filed Under: dmca, hollywood, house judiciary committee, michael o'leary, sopa
Companies: google, lionsgate, mpaa, nbc universal, paramount pictures, twentieth century fox

70 Comments

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arcan, 25 May 2012 @ 9:14am

I think that instead of complaining about their situation constantly, the RIAA and MPAA should do what everyone else does. get a real job.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 9:23am

There's way to handle issues like this in my office. I tell the non-computer savvy folks to "Google" solutions to common technical problems. 95% of the time you can find a solution this way.

I guess the RIAA does not hire IT people with practical minds.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 9:34am

Re: Digital Emmigrants
I believe the RIAA/MPAA isn't online. C'mon, we're talking about groups that need to hire other companies to identify "infringing" content & file takedown notices on their behalf.

Obviously nobody at the RIAA/MPAA knows how to use the internet. I'll bet they don't even have IT people. Likely there's only a couple dozen computers in the office(s), and when they need to transfer data from one to another they use floppy disks.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:37am

Or it could mean sopa would have given them another way of dealing with sharing if sopa got passed, something more tangible then dcma takedowns

If that was the case, the drop off in dcma takedowns could indicate that they had something big set up ready to replace dcma, waiting for the word on sopa, would explain the next day take down of megaupload, pettinace......all conjecture offcourse
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:38am

This sort of tactic isn't new. For example (and this is kinda unrelated)

DHS Asked Gas Pipeline Firms To Let Attackers Lurk Inside Networks

http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/05/07/2058243/dhs-asked-gas-pipeline-firms-to-let-atta ckers-lurk-inside-networks

"While the main motive behind the request is likely to gain information on the attackers, letting them stay close to critical systems is dangerous."

I think part of the reason could be that they want the networks to get hacked so they can find reason to push through more bad legislation.
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arcan, 25 May 2012 @ 9:38am

Re: Re: Digital Emmigrants
i doubt they even use floppies. it is too high-tech for them. most likely they just write it down on a piece of paper then they hand the paper to the recipient. then that person scribes it back onto the computer.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:39am

Re: Re: Digital Emmigrants
They're still in the process of updating their clocks from the sundial to the pendulum clocks.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:42am

Mike, you clearly are trying very hard to smear them. Give it a rest, it's a little too transparent.

DMCA tools are, at best, very temporary solutions to bigger problems. The time required to track down, report, and get an actual removal from Google is pretty high. To document it, track each page, make sure that the site in question does in fact infringe, etc... it's all work. When they don't do all that work perfectly, you are first in line to redicule them for using automated tools.

The "tools" don't accomplish the job. They merely move the problem around from page to page and site to site, as "users" upload more pirated or copyright material.

Trust me, if DMCA really worked, they would be killing with it. It's not working.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 9:47am

Re:
DMCA tools are, at best, very temporary solutions to bigger problems. The time required to track down, report, and get an actual removal from Google is pretty high. To document it, track each page, make sure that the site in question does in fact infringe, etc... it's all work. When they don't do all that work perfectly, you are first in line to redicule them for using automated tools.

So you'd prefer a system where they don't have to check if there's infringement, and where they can force all search engines to remove ENTIRE sites from search, even if they have tons of non-infringing content?

Yeah, that seems reasonable...
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:49am

Re:
The problem goes a lot deeper than the DMCA not working.
Copyright is such a failure in it's present incarnation that nothing can work. You need to cut copyright back to maybe 3 years IF claimed + 3 years extension IF claimed.
Without respect from the public the system cannot work.
Just admit you overreached and lets make something that people can live with.
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Pro Se (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 9:50am

Re:
It is also worth mentioning that the DMCA and SOPA are directed to different parties. One fundamental purpose of SOPA was to extend court jurisdiction to hear cases to two categories of persons, namely registrars and certain persons residing in the US and operating foreign sites. The jurisdictional provision is separate and distinct from the DMCA.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:53am

Re:
Does anyone know which law firm represents these corporate media companies, is it several, or is it just the one?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:54am

Re:
That's sort of the basis of the entire argument about trying to combat piracy online. You -can't- stop it. You can either continue to rail futilely against it, or you can accept that it's going to happen, factor it into your decisions, and adapt.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:57am

Re:
And with SOPA the time required would be less? Oh that's right, we'll just not do any research (tracking down, reporting) and just take it down.

If they did their jobs accurately then even with SOPA they would still need to track down and report their links and to also then have the ISPs remove the links or block them (And you think that it would be less than the mere 11 hours it takes google on average to remove a link?)

You don't understand, the tools do the job, they remove the infringing works. If we had SOPA people would still move the "problem" around from page to page and site to site.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 9:58am

Re:
Mike, you clearly are trying very hard to smear them.

Sure, "reading things" is obviously very hard for some people, so I can see your point.

Trust me, if DMCA really worked, they would be killing with it. It's not working.

Are we talking about a fair process to address sources of unlicensed media or a murder weapon? I'm guessing the latter.

From their communications it looks like what your handlers really need (want) a "way back" button that works as effectively on others as it does on themselves. I'm pretty sure they were all on the leading fringe of that generation that so quickly switched maxims from "No War" to "Lawyer Up". However, it would appear that they did, in fact, take the brown acid.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 9:59am

Re:
Are you trying to say the RIAA doesn't have to proactive?

Look at the advantages...DMCA takedowns cost them nothing, yet they spend millions in lawsuits and "educational" programs that produce little to no results.
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VMax, 25 May 2012 @ 9:59am

Re:
How do you smear a group that's already full of shit?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:01am

Someone really needs to get the Cartel a new fucking calendar - it's 2012, not 1912.

I personally hope that everything they claim ownership to is 100% expunged from the net.

It will make more room for new people with REAL talent and NEW ideas.

The techno-illiterate can still drag their lard-asses to a meat-space "theater" somewhere and pay a month's horse and buggy assembly-line wages to watch the latest "car chase and terrist blowing shit-up release" if they really need to be retro (a.k.a. obsolete). Who gives a fuck? Thinning of the herd is what it's all about.

The old-school idustry a.k.a. "Hollywood" is killing itself. Let them. It will soon all be over except for the bad smell of rotting dead formerly-rich cigar-chewing morons. We can feed the remains to the sharks (how fitting!)
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Ninja (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:02am

Re: Re:
Not to mention you just that Google removes the links amazingly fast for the amount of complaints received.

Also, it's amusing that this AC also ignores the other tools the MAFIAA can use to fight with piracy without any stupid draconian law: make it more readily and easily available, in more formats and without abyssal-dumb DRM or region restriction.

The problem with using Google takedown tools and the ones I mentioned is that they'll require both effort and accepting less profit per sale.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:03am

Re: Re:
You are creating a strawman. Shouldn't it be those who choose to use and profit from content that should be required to show that they have rights, not the other way around?

It seems VERY reasonable, don't you think?
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Ninja (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:05am

Re: Re:
Not to mention you just showed that Google removes the links amazingly fast for the amount of complaints received.

Also, it's amusing that this AC also ignores the other tools the MAFIAA can use to fight with piracy without any stupid draconian law: make it more readily and easily available, in more formats and without abyssal-dumb DRM or region restriction.

The problem with using Google takedown tools and the ones I mentioned is that they'll require both effort and accepting less profit per sale.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:06am

Re: Re:
If you think a DMCA takedown costs nothing, they you are very much out of touch.
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Some Other AC (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:07am

Re:
Based on the article above, there was not drop in using the tools provided by DMCA. There was either minimal or total lack of using them. Of the Studios mentioned above, only NBC used the tools regularly. Their use spiked upward after SOPA failed. The others simply did not use the tools. This could mean a few different things.
1st(my favorite), they likely had their heads inserted so far up their backsides that they completely ignored the tools already present.
2nd, they knew of the tools but were too lazy/cheap to make efficient use of them.
3rd, they were too busy suing anyone or anything.
This could go on and on. Regardless of why, the Studios and their Puppet Masters, the MPAA and RIAA, willfully ignored/refused to use tools already available. Stupid is as stupid does!
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Re:
I was making a comparison.

Or you could tell me which option is cheaper?
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RD, 25 May 2012 @ 10:09am

Re:
"DMCA tools are, at best, very temporary solutions to bigger problems. The time required to track down, report, and get an actual removal from Google is pretty high. To document it, track each page, make sure that the site in question does in fact infringe, etc... it's all work. When they don't do all that work perfectly, you are first in line to redicule them for using automated tools.

The "tools" don't accomplish the job. They merely move the problem around from page to page and site to site, as "users" upload more pirated or copyright material.

Trust me, if DMCA really worked, they would be killing with it. It's not working."

I have two words for this:

TOO FUCKING BAD.

The DMCA is a law that HOLLYWOOD ITSELF PUSHED FOR. So boo-fucking-hoo if its "too difficult" and doesn't "accomplish the job."

How about this? We abolish the DMCA (which you seem to validate, since you yourself claim its not working) and go back to the way things were with good old bog-standard copyright infringement enforcement. Private party, civil cases, run through a court and a judge from discovery to trial. Oh thats right. Before the DMCA, NO PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL WAS EVER SUED FOR INFRINGEMENT.

And no, answering "ratchet up enforcement further" is not a valid, or even a good, answer to the problem.

The Avengers made $1 billion (and counting!) in just a few weeks.

PIRACY IS NOT THE PROBLEM
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Ninja (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Re:
Except that Google profits from ads generated by a good service provided by their diversified array of products. Incidentally, the content industry is profiting from that platform (see Youtube Content ID) at the expense of Google infra-structure. Should be reasonable that they paid for usage of that infra-structure, no?
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Ninja (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:18am

Re: Re: Re:
sry, the internet here is slower than a paraplegic turtle so I ended up double posting.
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:21am

Re: Re: ;-D
This level of trolling is good news, means the lobbyists are here and not busy fellating legislators.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:23am

Re:
Or it could mean sopa would have given them another way of dealing with sharing if sopa got passed

So, would they have used the options in SOPA, or waited another year or two (complaining the whole time that SOPA wasn't enough) until they got the next law passed?
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:24am

Re: Re: Re:
That might make sense if copyright laws were sane and simple, but instead they are complex, overly burdensome, and impossible to figure out. Therefore, frak copyright and I will ignore it.

Signed,
The American Public
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:28am

Re: Re: Re: ;-D
My Mind!
Ouch! Bad things!
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:33am

Re: Re: Re:
It seems VERY reasonable, don't you think?

Not in a free country, no.

If you want to live in a place where everything you do or say has to be pre-approved by those in power, than that's your choice. But that's not a place I would choose to live.

It seems much more reasonable to me for those asserting broad monopoly rights over something to prove those rights are legitimate, and when asking for someone else to be censored to show clear and definitive proof of harm.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:39am

So, the companies didn't want to invest their own time and money - and instead hoped that some government passed, tax-payer paid for system would allow them to, what, shut down websites on a whim without having to make sure that it is legit? Or cut funding to the site - I can just imagine that would be a really easy thing to get the ad revenue or paypal account back up after such a thing during those 'bogus' take down requests.

The timing of the lack of requests really does seem like they were purposely letting things go, in order to make the situation seem worse.

Couple this in with the prior article on all of this being shunted onto Google's shoulders, and not any of the other search engines that frequently challenge 'people doing not so smart things' and it seems pretty clear that they were either conspiring to cry wolf.

Was there not an article on here yesterday about the housing market and a group trying to gang up on another database search site for housing that earned their ire? Is this not in some way against the law? I guess they would have to show there was a conspiracy to do so.

But as an aside: Whenever I see articles on piracy, I just like to think that a lot of the piracy is apparently corporate piracy - given the amount of law suits between companies for patents, either upon how similar something looks, or the code/parts inside of it.

And that makes me imagine some boardroom of these companies walking around with parrots on their shoulders, going 'Arrr' to everything, with a Jolly Roger hanging on the back wall.

But it makes me sad, since I know it probably isn't the case.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:40am

Re: Re: Digital Emmigrants
when they need to transfer data from one to another they use floppy disks.

They can't, remember? Don't copy that floppy!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not to mention over-asserting, and slanted towards the so-called rights-holders (when did the public stop having rights?) in a way that it's become ridiculous.

So I happen to agree that the DMCA is a sign of a much, much bigger problem. But we should not ignore copyright laws. We should get them fundamentally changed.
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The eejit (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:45am

Re: Re: Re:
So, you'd ask casinos to police themselves?

How about asking the police to police themselves?

Or Congresscritters?

One of three major industries in the US is policed by themselves: Entertainment, Oil and Insurance.
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The eejit (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:46am

Re: Re:
Yes. Short answer: The RIAA/MPAA "represent" the major companies in this area. But the truth is, they're little more than legalised bribers masquerading as trade organizations.
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The eejit (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:47am

Re: Re:
With olive oil enemas, of course.
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gorehound (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 10:48am

MAFIAA I will be more than happy to see you gone.
US Gov look out you are screwing with the Public and the Public is slowly waking up.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 10:58am

Re: Re: Re:
"Shouldn't it be those who choose to use and profit from content that should be required to show that they have rights, not the other way around?"

Ever heard the expression "innocent until proven guilty"?
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John Fenderson (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 11:25am

Re: Re: Re:
Shouldn't it be those who choose to use and profit from content that should be required to show that they have rights, not the other way around?

No, for a whole lot of reasons. But let's get to the bottom line: I think it's wrong for an industry to demand that third parties engaging in legal activities shoulder the burden and expense that is required to support the industry's preferred business model.

If it's so essential that this be done, it should be done by the industry that its important to, not shoved off on a different industry altogether.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 11:28am

Re: Re:
I have two words for this:

TOO FUCKING BAD.

Which word doesn't count as a word? :-P
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 11:46am

Re:
yeah, causing working 20 hour days on a film set is not work?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 11:49am

Re:
up until a year ago, the only way to submit a DMCA claim to Google (not youtube) was by FAX... seriously... I'm GLAD to see them being more responsible and making these tools available, however, you might want to also note this:

"It's Broken: Google Is Now Fielding 300,000 Takedown Requests a Week..."

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120524google#5UW6JXhgpqIADM-5Rv1rQg

30 0 Hundred Thousand PER Week... oh, yeah, that's not a problem...

- signed, your friend, from digital music news...
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 11:59am

Re:
"I think part of the reason could be that they want the networks to get hacked so they can find reason to push through more bad legislation."

or it could just be exposing the truth...
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 12:00pm

Re:
when google sells you out on capital hill you are going to be bummed.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re:
Hey Paul,

How is this great news for Google again? I mean logging the time to go through each complaint must cost them a good amount of money.

Though the other issue is this this solution came into effect from the RIAA's lobbying so even if new laws did pass for copyright enforcement, they'll probably be just as half assed as this DMCA system.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Lowestofthekeys (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 12:04pm

Re: Re:
Quit being naive, a company will always puts it's own interests above those of it's consumer.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 12:19pm

Re: Re: Re:
FUCKING
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 12:20pm

Re:
Surely you jest.
The DMCA doesn't work because of underlying problems and you want to augment those problems by eliminating due process?

You said right there automated tools don't get it right and you want to make it easier for those tools to make those mistakes and get away with it?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
SOFA KING?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 12:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ignoring it seems right to me.
I have no problems moral or otherwise in doing so, I can't possibly find a reason to respect any granted monopoly existence in this day and age.
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Jay (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re:
You're thinking about the studios they represent.

The MPAA merely lobbies for the studios in Congress and represents them as the hated face to the public.
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Jack Furlong (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 12:33pm

Big media seems to be saying "the job's not done until the internet doesn't run".

What they appear to want is roll back time to pre-1980 where they were the _only_ source of media, and in total control of pricing and terms.

DVRs, Streaming Media, etc... they want it ALL GONE so they don't have to spend any more time/money on Government lobbying, DMCA takedowns, and anything similar.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 12:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nope! I believe it's guilty until you prove your own innocence. I'm pretty sure it's always been that way.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Aw the power of opinion, even if it's wrong you can still say it's right.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 1:12pm

Re: Re: Re:
"The time required to track down, report, and get an actual removal from Google is pretty high. To document it, track each page, make sure that the site in question does in fact infringe, etc..."

IP holders are in a far better position to do this than others because IP holders are in a much better position to determine whether something infringes on their IP privileges or not. If it's so expensive for IP holders to do this then imagine how much more expensive it must be for service providers to do this.

"Shouldn't it be those who choose to use and profit from content that should be required to show that they have rights, not the other way around?"

No. That's like saying that the mail delivery system, which 'uses and profits' from mail deliveries, should be the ones required to show that they have the rights to deliver everything they deliver and that they aren't delivering any infringing or illegal items. If anything, the ones sending contraband should be the ones to be punished.

The overwhelming majority of the material that the post office delivers is perfectly legal, just like the overwhelming majority of content that Google and others host is perfectly legal. Google doesn't profit from infringing content any more than the post office does. Requiring Google to police all of its content in the way that you desire is like requiring the post office to open every package and research every delivery to make sure that nothing illegal or infringing makes it through. It would either bankrupt the post office or make the process so expensive that it would stop the overwhelming majority of perfectly legal deliveries from being delivered. The same thing with Youtube. But that's what you want to do to Youtube, you aren't interested in stopping infringement, you want to stop competition altogether. Since it's impossible for Google to police content as thoroughly as you would like them to without substantially reducing the amount of content being uploaded (since every piece of uploaded content must be viewed by a Google staff and then thoroughly researched and negotiated to make sure that it's not infringing) your proposal will effectively prevent many many people from uploading perfectly legal content for no good reason.

Actually, I responded to your request before, you are likely the same shill I responded to before. Here is my response again.

"The overwhelming majority of uploaded content is non-infringing and days of content are uploaded every minute. It's prohibitively expensive for service providers to hire someone to manually watch and review all of the content and then to magically determine which parts of that content are infringing before posting it. But that's what admittedly you want. Which will necessarily prevent the overwhelming majority of that (perfectly legal) content from being uploaded by making it too expensive for most users to get most of their content uploaded and reviewed. All of the (perfectly legal) content that doesn't get uploaded as a result hurts the creators and uploaders of that content and it hurts all of those people who would otherwise view that content. But, again, this is what you admittedly want. You truly are selfish. Your very own words express your selfishness, you don't even do a good job hiding it with what you say. You make for a terrible PR person."

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120406/02303918400/viacom-didnt-actually-win-against- youtube-appeals-court-ruling-is-still-dangerous.shtml#c363

(more responses are there too).

Why should IP holders get an IP privilege (something entirely provided to them by government at taxpayer expense) and require everyone else to hold all of the burden of enforcing this privilege.

IP is opt out, it's virtually impossible for a service provider to know what's infringing since everything is protected by default, especially given the volume of uploaded content. and since the overwhelming majority of content is non-infringing and Google makes almost all of its money from non-infringing content (and likely spends far more money policing infringing content in labor costs than any money they allegedly make from it), it's far far far easier for IP holders to identify infringing content than it is for a third party. At the very least the burden should be on IP holders to enforce their own privileges, they should be thankful that our bought government even provides them with any privileges (a privilege that I think ought to be abolished), if they can't be bothered to police their own content then the least they can do is forgo their privileges. IP holders aren't required to do anything to let others know what constitutes infringing content, they aren't required to opt in anywhere so that service providers can better reference the content and have a starting point to further investigate whether or not it's infringement, they should hold such requirements, it's the least they can do, but instead they want to force everyone else to police their privileges. That's typical of IP holders, they're lazy, they want all of these free unowed monopoly privileges and they want everyone else to undergo all of the expense and do all of the work required to enforce their privileges.
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E. Zachary Knight (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 1:15pm

Re: Re: Re:
That sounds an awful lot like "Guilty until proven innocent." That is antithetical to the US's system of justice. It is always on the accuser to prove their accusations, not the accused to prove against the accusations.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 May 2012 @ 1:18pm

Re:
Someone needs to send them to this link:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+can+I+remove+a+page+or+site+from+google+search+results%3F
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The eejit (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 2:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nope. You are charged in connection with a possible offence. You become guilty after a trial of some sort (either involving 3 lay judges or a jury of 12 of your peers).

Hence why, in most Justice's opening statements, it's said, "You stand here accused of [insert crime here]".
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Khaim (profile), 25 May 2012 @ 4:59pm

Too much credit
Mike, you've got it completely backwards. The studios weren't filing takedown notices because they didn't even know about these tools until the SOPA hearings.

I mean, do you really think they bothered to understand the laws they passed last time?
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PaulT (profile), 26 May 2012 @ 1:45am

Re: Re:
"30 0 Hundred Thousand PER Week... oh, yeah, that's not a problem... "

Since they're clearly automated and are so often targeted against legal content that Google have to hire people to manually process them... yes, it is a problem. It's also a great example of how merely fighting the supply of pirated content is a fool's game if you don't actually listen to what customers want and try to restrict them instead of providing a legal, unrestricted supply.

In case you want to start going "but, Amazon, Spotify, etc.": Google is global and most of the pirated content is available from countries that have few or even zero legal options for digital content. The industry's own outdated practices are the only thing stopping legal content being available globally.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 May 2012 @ 9:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Innocent until proven guilty is a state of legal standing, not a defense. Willful ignorance, the act of ignoring that most modern works ARE cpoyright, is something that shoots it all down.

Your legal standing in a court of law doesn't make your actions rights. It just makes you point meaningless.
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Gwiz (profile), 27 May 2012 @ 6:17am

Re: Re: Re:
Shouldn't it be those who choose to use and profit from content that should be required to show that they have rights, not the other way around?

Then we should go back to "opt-in" copyright. You have to register the copyright and re-register after x many years. That way a comprehensive database could be established so everyone would know the copyright status of a work instead of the murky waters we have today.
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Anonymous Coward, 27 May 2012 @ 6:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No one is arguing that it's a defence. Wilful ignorance remains something that you have to prove, and if you're automatically insistent of wilful ignorance on someone's part, it's your job to prove it or move it.
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BLiP, 27 May 2012 @ 12:06pm

Well, one possibility given the apparent fact of the legacy entertainment industries complete lack of knowledge about how the internet works might be that they were just to plain stupid to know how to use the tools already given to them.
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Chargone (profile), 27 May 2012 @ 7:42pm

Re: Re: Re:
more like he's thinking about the people who work for the studios.
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Chargone (profile), 27 May 2012 @ 7:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
that's what it says on the paperwork.

the reality isn't quite so rosy...
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Prisoner 201, 28 May 2012 @ 12:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
This would solve SO many problems.
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Tim (profile), 30 May 2012 @ 1:39pm

A penalty is needed.
To bad congress won't add a "three strikes and your out" to the DMCA for those that file false or incorrect claims to a web site.

If there was just one little addition to the law that said if a copyright claimant is incorrect about the claim, or not the legal copyright holder or authorized in writing to act on behalf of the rights holder, then such organization or person shall be barred from filing any future DMCA claims against any web site. Perhaps then they'd actually have a human screen the claims and verify the content before submitting it.

There is not any incentive for the claimant to be correct if there is not something to lose on their end. Losing future use of the DMCA for rights holder that file false or incorrect claims because of bot hits, and not having a human verify the claim before submitting it, would end most all abuses of DMCA. Everyone else on the receiving end of a DMCA notice has something to lose. That should work both ways.
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