Rolling Stone Highlights FBI's Fascination With Staging Its Own Terrorist Plots... While Ignoring Real Threats
from the feeling-safer? dept
We've been covering for a while now how the FBI keep setting up and stopping its own terrorist plots in order to make headlines. A few weeks ago, the NY Times wrote about this and now Rolling Stone has its own entry on the subject, which goes one step further, noting that while the FBI keeps turning hapless nobodies into terrorists to arrest and splash all over the front pages, it seems to be ignoring groups that actually represent real threats, because they just don't make nearly as interesting a story. Rather, as the article notes, the FBI seems focused on "ideological enemies" to take down, rather than those who are most likely to actually cause harm:The contrasts are extraordinarily instructive. When federal law enforcement agencies take an affirmative role in staging the crimes, the U.S. Justice Department then prosecutes, leaving more clear-and-present dangers relatively unbothered, the State is singling out ideological enemies. Violent white supremacists are not one of these enemies, apparently – because, as David Neiwert, probably the nation’s top journalist on the subject, told me, the federal government has much less often sought to entrap them, even though they are actually the biggest home-grown terrorism threat. That is unconstitutional, because law enforcement’s criterion for attention has been revealed as the ideas the alleged plotters hold – not their observed violent potential.At some point, you have to wonder how much longer the FBI will be allowed to keep staging bogus threats just so they can arrest people, while mostly ignoring people who are actually trying to pull off violent attacks within the country.
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Filed Under: doj, fbi, rolling stone, terrorism
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I think it's not unreasonable to wait for an agent to get too eager and cross the line, and for a defense team to not consist of overworked public defenders. One is about as likely as the other, imo, and they'll coincide eventually. I'm a patient person.
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They are absolutely trying to entrap. They entice, solicit, plan, and equip the attempts. The guilty to a man are clueless, incompetent losers who were not engaged in terrorism or with "terrorists" until targeted by the FBI (from what I have read: welcome to correction if wrong).
IANA Civil Rights L. I personally think the judges who rule that none of these cases are entrapment are getting it wrong. Judges are not infallible.
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When they accidentally entrap the kid of some politician or his/her personal fundraiser/lobbyist.
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It's not that simple
First, calling it "entrapment" is as intellectually dishonest as calling copyright infringement "stealing." Entrapment happens when an officer of the law induces someone to commit a crime that they had no intention of committing, so as to be able to trap them and arrest them. That hasn't happened in any of the cases I've read about. The people the FBI has been... *ahem* working with in these cases were actively looking for ways to commit terrorist acts. And I for one am glad that they keep managing to find FBI agents instead of people who could actually help them!
Second, and related to the first, is the reason why these people keep looking for help. Unlike violent white supremacists, which already exist in well-established groups in the US, (dating back as far as the KKK if not further,) Islamic terror has no established support network yet. So they have to try to build their infrastructure from the ground up. Viewed in that light, what the FBI is doing is not entrapment at all, but containment, and they're doing a darned good job of it IMO.
And also, "top journalist" or no, David Neiwert's premise is worth questioning. I don't recall ever hearing about a major, successful terror attack by a white supremacist group in my lifetime. (Certainly nothing on the scale of 9/11!) Nor do I find such a thing likely, as the ideological objective of white supremacists is not to destroy the USA, as it is for Islamic terror, but to turn back the clock on racial policies within the USA. Indiscriminate destruction would work contrary to that goal.
(And before anyone takes that completely out of context, please note that I am in no way supporting or condoning the acts or ideologies of any white supremacist group. I'm simply saying that Mr. Neiwert's assertion is factually incorrect, as an apples-to-oranges comparison.)
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meh... whats the difference
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You're splitting hairs to an uncomfortable degree in your arguments. Semantics are important in legalese, but perhaps less so in the real world of threat assessment.
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If you strip out the element of luck associated with the poor design of the twin towers and count only the deaths on the planes and in the immediate impacts then the two are similar scale.
You should not give credit to terrorists for things that they are not responsible for.
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The bombing itself was described in the Turner Diaries published in 1978. A known book and source of reference for groups within the white supremacist movement.
Some articles online (including wikipedia) state that, "McVeigh was reprimanded by the military for purchasing a "White Power" T-shirt at a Ku Klux Klan protest..."
While his motivations may not have been spurred on by those who believe strongly in this movement of hatred, the associations are there and are very clear.
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I agree that these cases are slightly different to traditional entrapment in that they are instead providing the (illusion of) resources to commit a crime they would otherwise have no capability to commit - but it is equally ineffective and immoral.
Although it is clear that the targets had a general inclination to commit offences, the details were all supplied by the FBI - so arguably the officers have crossed the line into a form of entrapment.
I'm simply saying that Mr. Neiwert's assertion is factually incorrect, as an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Ah the old "apples to oranges" argument - go get a new one - it has been debunked!
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To me, it makes sense to go after the guys who've managed to collect enough guns to start a small war all by themselves, without any FBI help. They're more dangerous.
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And I don't believe the FBI is not going after them, especially as I have seen news reports of the FBI rounding up white supremacists and putting an end to their plots. They just aren't using the same methodologies as they do with Islamic terror, because it doesn't work the same way. As I pointed out, white supremacists have an infrastructure in place already, and they don't need to go looking for outside help.
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Also, another person was captured by the FBI even though he did not want to be a part of the entrapment scheme put forth for him. The irony? He found out about the informant through a google search.
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Go check it out for yourself.
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Funny, I seem to recall the cases are generally of an Islamist who is enticed into looking for ways to commit terrorist acts, not already actively looking.
Even if you parse that very finely, I'm pretty sure none of the convicted were intending to commit a specific criminal act before the FBI stepped in and planned and facilitated a specific criminal act.
"I hate the USA and I want people to die", even if said out loud, does not rise to the level of intent to commit a crime, to the best of my knowledge.
Corrections always welcomed.
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Actually, this is not true at all. In multiple cases that we've written about and *even in the article linked and discussed above* they show that the individuals were NOT looking to do such crimes, but were convinced to do them, often by the informants.
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The fbi are preying on the weak minded.
Getting them to do extremist acts, then arresting them.
It's completely sick.
Using cult tactics to turn people into informants .. NO, criminals
1) Prey on persons with genuine but opposed ideology
2) Groom them into becoming extreme
3) Invent a plot for them to act out
6) Lead them through it
4) Arrest them
5) Parade in public to gainer hate for the ideology
Everyone sees right through it.
I can see these FBI people being throw in jail for the evil they are doing to people.
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surprise
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Fact's and omissions of, ruin everything you're told to believe.
Damn you facts : Ruining our cosy beliefs that we were told to believe.
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i do believe a lot of people exploit it for such purposes.
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Words have no meaning with out the ability to back them up.
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I'm assuming (ass, u, me, etc.) the line was intended to read:
To paraphrase George W(ashington)., "God and the [C]onstituition give us liberty, arms in the hands of the people are the teeth."
BTW, in the course of verifying it was Washington and not another George W, it appears the quote the paraphrase comes from is fake. Also there's no mention of God in any of the variations, so not sure where that came from. But enjoy some free enlightenment.
Remember kids, punctuation is important.
"Time to eat, kids!" vs "Time to eat kids!"
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Remember the first "X-Files" movie?
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ajfosdfjrsiowejfioaf
afjsdaifjias
dfsadfjios
arggghhhhhhhhh.
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Well yeah. Because taking down "ideological enemies" is the best way to increase the budget of an armed Federal agency.
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I blame society...
The picture is if you don't show the Congresscritters and the public something for all of the money they give you, they take money away.
Desperate to keep the same level of funding, rightly or wrongly, they put on these dog and pony shows. They do what Congresscritters demand. Lets look at the ICE budget shall we?
Congress demanded X00,000 deportations of the criminal variety illegals.
We have churn now, where people with the crime of being the right shade of brown, or the right accent are quickly checked and double checked and if they are an illegal and even part of the name matches they vanish into the private prison system while awaiting deportation.
They have to meet these goals or they loose funding, which might harm other things they do that aren't on the main stage. Mind you they are getting a little extra income now being Disney's private police force, but it is the demands of big visible program "results" that are driving what they do. So what if a teen runaway made up a fake name and we tossed her into another country, we are getting results!
We demand results, and only recently has the demand for accountability been getting louder as they go after more and more people in crazier ways.
We have states banning illegals who stole "hard working American's jobs"... and that was best summed up by the farmer standing infront of his field of rotting produce saying it was a good law and well Americans would only do the job for half a day before quitting the back breaking labor for crap wages.
The media churn is to blame, we often remember the headline not the followup. The Hutari (sp) Militia in michigan. They were going to kill cops and spark all of these race wars!!! The Judge tossed the case because they only talked never actually planned... but the media got fed, and they told us how these crazy militia folks were out to kill us.
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Re: I blame society...
Oh, boo hoo, poor farmer complaining about having to treat legitimate workers with legitimate dignity. I've got zero sympathy for scum who think it's OK to exploit people, to the point where they complain openly about laws that require them not to. We fought the Civil War over that question. It ought to be settled by now.
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The farmer in my example was supporting the law, even as it was costing him money. I do not know for sure, but one would suspect that there is a system in place to make up for his ruined crop.
It was an amazing highlight on the claim that illegal workers are "stealing" jobs from hard working Americans. The few who did try the job were unable or unwilling to do it. While the treatment of some of the workers is horrible, some are treated fairly by employers who like the hard working employees who aren't always looking to take a Facebook break.
The crop rotting in the field is also an amazing example of how people are disconnected from reality. We all want cheap food, and we assume those workers are well paid and well taken care of just like us. It seems to be a standard human response that everyones experiences are exactly the same as our own.
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the point of these FBI conconcted terrorist 'plots'
In that context, these sexed up 'terrorist hoaxes' are probably working very nicely.
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Hm... "No right wing groups"?!
http://americanfreepress.net/?p=3672
http://www.freep.com/article/20120327/NEWS06/120327 048/Judge-dismisses-critical-charges-in-Hutaree-case
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