The Sweet Taste Of Defeat: Band Must Pay Legal Fees For Frivolous Lawsuit Over One Used CD On eBay

from the tilting-at-windmills dept

Mon, Jun 11th 2012 7:07am — Leigh Beadon

British glam-rock band The Sweet (best known for songs like Block Buster! and The Ballroom Blitz) seemed pretty damn bitter five years ago when guitarist Andy Scott sued an Austrian man, Dietmar Huber, for selling a single used CD on eBay at a price of one euro. At first, he claimed it was a pirated copy and asked for a €2000 fee, but Huber refused, insisting it was a legally purchased disc that he had every right to sell. Amazingly, Scott kept pushing, and went to court asking for €36,000. When Huber proved in court that it was his CD, Scott still didn't give up! He changed his claim to say he owned a copyright on the name, and all used sales had to be authorized by him.

Huber, as the victim of an utterly ridiculous string of legal attacks, continued to fight back, and now Austria's highest court has confirmed that he did nothing wrong and the band must pay his legal fees to the tune of £50,000.

This isn't really surprising—most jurisdictions recognize that it's always okay to re-sell something you legally purchased. Of course, we do see some companies pushing back against this, most notoriously video game developers. But even they'd (probably) be smarter than to engage in such a Quixotic legal quest. And that's the surprising part here: that the guitarist kicked off this circus and forced it to keep escalating. Used records have been a much-loved part of the music world for decades—did he think he was going to change all that? More importantly, does he think this is going to help him sell more albums? In reality, I'd guess people are going to be a lot more reluctant to buy a Sweet CD in the future, since they know they might get sued if they want to re-sell it later (because, given his dogged pursuit of this dead-end lawsuit, I am not optimistic that Scott has learned his lesson).

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: andy scott, austria, first sale, the sweet, used cd

51 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 6:47am

Most
most jurisdictions recognize that it's always okay to re-sell something you legally purchased.

Except the US.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101213/09353512255/supreme-court-ruling-you-may-not-be-able- to-legally-sell-product-first-made-outside-us.shtml
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:12am

It is so good to see the Paul Christoforo school of self promotion keeps on churning out new graduates.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:17am

So in other words Huber had a sweet victory over Sweet ;)

Swwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeettttt!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
timlash (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:20am

Yeahhh!!!
It's, it's a courtroom blitz.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:24am

Re: Yeahhh!!!
your lucky it was Austria and not Australia otherwise you'd owe 30% of the profits for that post to them...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
justok (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:25am

Re: Yeahhh!!!
the fox on the run
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:27am

Speaking after the court ruling, Wolfgang Maier, the German lawyer for Scott, said: 'The end result according to the final court of appeal is that copyright and intellectual property protection in Austria is far short of what it should be.'

Glad to see there are still people who think used markets are a problem and should be excised.
You wouldn't prohibit someone from reselling a car.
... Actually, scratch that, I'm sure they'd love to if they could.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:31am

Leigh you missed an AMAZING quote from the article...

"Speaking after the court ruling, Wolfgang Maier, the German lawyer for Scott, said: 'The end result according to the final court of appeal is that copyright and intellectual property protection in Austria is far short of what it should be.'"

I'm thinking its time we wall Germany back off again.
They brought us speculative invoicing aka copyright trolling, GEMA, and now the idea that Copyright and IP means artists should be paid forever every time their work changes hands.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Trails (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:31am

Re: Yeahhh!!!
Oh, yeah, it was like lightning
Scott's legal theories were frightening
But the ruling was soothing
And now Dieter is grooving
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

And the man at the back said
Everyone attack and it turned into a courtroom blitz
And the girl in the corner said
Boy, I wanna warn ya, it'll turn into a courtroom blitz
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:32am

" In reality, I'd guess people are going to be a lot more reluctant to buy a Sweet CD in the future, since they know they might get sued if they want to re-sell it later (because, given his dogged pursuit of this dead-end lawsuit, I am not optimistic that Scott has learned his lesson)."

Not really, because what this case now gives us is legal precedent. Scott would be pretty damn foolish to try something similar again when this precedent is there for all to refer to.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
silverscarcat (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:36am

Re: Most
Not that anyone's going to give a flying **** about that ruling.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:39am

Re:
Not really.
Even with all of the media coverage people are still paying off copyright trolls.
You just have to have a scary letter, and keep the demand lower than what it would cost to hire a lawyer and you get a payday from a percentage.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
TtfnJohn (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:43am

Re:
Not that I ever liked them all that much anyway. But should I be feeling nostalgic one day I know what band I won't get a missing CD, DVD or LP of.

And don't worry, Scott or someone else like him will try this trick again. :(
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:46am

Re:
Scott *is* pretty damn foolish, as this case clearly shows.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Donnicton, 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:47am

Well, looks like there really is someone who can make little Willy go home.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
DannyB (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:47am

Re:
This is why we need SOPA, ACTA, etc.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
AC Cobra, 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:52am

Reverse psychology?
Maybe he was hoping for some kind of Streisand effect to boost their sales.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tech42 (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 7:59am

No way to promote sales
If this case had gone in Scott's favour, wouldn't that mean that retailers could be sued for selling the CD in the first place? After all, they bought it (albeit at wholesale price) and then attempted to resell it.

If this were to be accepted into law, wouldn't that mean that any physical item found to be associated with a copyright could not be sold? Wouldn't the same restriction apply to any physical item associated with a patent?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Richard (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:04am

Uh?
Considering the number of secondhand record shops, bring and buy/jumble/car boot sales and classified ads selling records out there it is surprising that Scott didn't reailise earlier that his records were being sold secondahand all over the place for many years - OH wait - this was "on the internet"...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:09am

God Bless Dietmar Huber!!
Message to ancient talentless creep Andy Scott:

You suck and your band sucked, you always sucked and you always will. That noise you called "music" and your image were utterly atrocious and an insult to mankind. You couldn't play a guitar to save your spent life. Your ancient noise still makes me want to vomit all these decades later.

Now just foad you stone-aged make-up encrusted talentless relic!

If you want to sue anybody, sue your fucking former record company for not compressing that horse-shit you called music enough - one can make out some of that awful ugly noise - despite the lowest known dynamic range on the planet.

I will NEVER buy anything with your bloody name on it but I will download as much as possible for free and distribute with total abandon because of your ignorant actions, you make-up encrusted old tone-deaf creep!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:10am

A puzzle...
I looked at the picture of the cd in the article... got curious.... did some looking around.

http://www.algonet.se/~sweetfa/cd_box_legend.htm

According to this webpage the first CD of the set had no The Sweet material on it.
The second cd had 2 non The Sweet tracks.

So I am wondering if maybe the anger was just misplaced. That ACD/Eurotrend released something they weren't authorized to or was crap, and so Scott was cranky. But the CD was released in 1997ish so it seems a little late and totally wrong to go after a guy selling a cd he purchased.

Then I read The Sweet wikipedia page and found out that 2 members of the band were touring as The Sweet at the same time and it gets sorta confusing.

While it is possible the CD was felt to be counterfeit, this wasn't the proper forum or target. Suing someone who was a fan of yours for buying material he thought was legit isn't a smart thing to do.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:12am

Re: God Bless Dietmar Huber!!
caring is sharing... if you care... don't share this.
Save the world from it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:13am

better not try to sell any used copies of Wanye's World either...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Difster, 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:19am

Tia Carerra's version of Ballroom Blitza was far better anyway.

I'd say he was a washed up rock star but he was never really a star to begin with now was he. A couple of songs that got out there and it was over.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Difster, 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:19am

Tia Carerra's version of Ballroom Blitza was far better anyway.

I'd say he was a washed up rock star but he was never really a star to begin with now was he. A couple of songs that got out there and it was over.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Difster, 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:19am

Tia Carerra's version of Ballroom Blitza was far better anyway.

I'd say he was a washed up rock star but he was never really a star to begin with now was he. A couple of songs that got out there and it was over.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
anymouse_cowherd (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:39am

I just can't believe Mike's hubris...

For years he's regaled us with the mantra of "Show us the real losses of the copyright system not some made up numbers."

Now he's handed a incontrovertible FACT that copyright has cost an actual artist real money and all we hear is mocking.

This guy thinks he can just sell a CD. That CD might as well be Scott's child. You wouldn't sell the kid that mows your lawn, would you? Selling used CDs is just like selling someone's child...to a cyber-terrorist.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Poppa Joe, 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:41am

"British glam-rock band The Sweet seemed pretty damn bitter"...

Not exactly, since Brian Connolly died in 1997 and leukemia got Mick Tucker in 2002.

This is all on Andy.

1972-1978 Sweet: best rock band ever.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The eejit (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:44am

Re:
I'd sell my own mother for a used CD. And possibly the next three generations of my family.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
anymouse_cowherd (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 8:59am

Re: Re:
That might be the answer...

I know your mom on a DVD almost covered that pack of gum from the bargain bin...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 9:15am

Re: Reverse psychology?
If he was clever he would have claimed that the lawsuit was for protecting customers against the record industry. By setting a logical precedent in court as it happened in this case, it might be more difficult to get through court with lawsuits relying on such illogical claims.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PRMan, 11 Jun 2012 @ 9:23am

Less likely?
"In reality, I'd guess people are going to be a lot more reluctant to buy a Sweet CD in the future"

How could we be less likely to buy it? We'd never heard of the band until today...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
gorehound (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 9:38am

Re: Yeahhh!!!
The Damned do a great version of Ballroom Blitz
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Trails (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 9:39am

Re:
while opposing gay marriage.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
GMacGuffin (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 9:48am

Re: God Bless Dietmar Huber!!
... sue your fucking former record company for not compressing that horse-shit you called music enough - one can make out some of that awful ugly noise - despite the lowest known dynamic range on the planet.

Actually, compression/limiting removes dynamic range by removing spikes, so lack of compression would not contribute to Sweet's lack of dynamics.

It's more that they sucked anyway; on that I agree.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 9:49am

Re: Less likely?
"How could we be less likely to buy it? We'd never heard of the band until today..."

That makes two of us...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 10:36am

Re:
Don't paint us all with the same brush because of some jackass lawyers and clueless judges.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
preciousillusion (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 10:46am

1973
Back in 1973 I sold some copies of a drawing I made, and today some little fucker tried to sell one of them on e-bay. I haven't sold many drawings since then so give me my fucking money you thieves.

/Gollum

Ps.
I also want my ring back.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rikuo (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 11:36am

Re:
I wonder how many people will remember this reference? I certainly do ^^
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rikuo (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 11:42am

Re: Re: Less likely?
Actually it is possible for us three (I'd never heard of them either) to now be less likely to buy the CD than before today. Imagine if two days ago you walked into a store and saw their CD on the shelf and bought it because of "insert reason here" (e.g. nice artwork, friend's recommendation etc.)
Now, we've heard of this band and their jackassery. Now we know to avoid them completely.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
drew (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 11:54am

Re:
And don't forget the case was binned. I'm sure it wouldn't take long to find an asshole of a lawyer in any country ;�)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Overcast (profile), 11 Jun 2012 @ 12:14pm

Awesome to see the court find fairly.

And I know of one band to avoid now, for sure. Even though I never sell my old CD's anyway.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward With A Unique Writing Style, 11 Jun 2012 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re: Yeahhh!!!
The Damned I've at least heard of as opposed to The Sweet.

"Ignite" being my favorite song by The Damned.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
TEA-Time, 11 Jun 2012 @ 1:00pm

I love it when greed backfires!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 1:04pm

Huh?
What the fuck is a "CD"?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 2:04pm

WTF
Ballroom Ditz
Ballroom Ditz
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 11 Jun 2012 @ 3:05pm

They haven't had a hit since, what, the 1970s?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Digitari, 11 Jun 2012 @ 5:32pm

Re: Re: Re:
So if he tries to tour playing oldies music, he can name the band "Newtra-sweet??

I like some of his songs, but I never knew the name of the band and I'm 51, and heard this music growing up

(WLS, Chicago am radio)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The Devil's Coachman (profile), 12 Jun 2012 @ 1:02pm

Re:
Looks like Andy needs to join his band-mates. Like yesterday. Certainly no later than tomorrow. Then they can all suck in Rock Hell.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 12 Jun 2012 @ 7:40pm

Re: Re:
I'm keeping it alive as best I can...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Eduardo, 17 Mar 2014 @ 1:08pm

Re:
Since the purchase of the CD is really only a license to listen to the content without a forfeiture or complete surrender of copyright, technically Andy was correct in that a resell is actually a transfer of a copyright license without permission of the copyright holder.
[ link to this | view in thread ]