Jimmy Wales Campaigns To Stop The Despicable Attempt To Extradite & Try Richard O 'Dwyer

from the speak-up dept

Mon, Jun 25th 2012 8:08am — Mike Masnick

Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales is speaking out against the attempt to extradite Richard O'Dwyer from the UK to the US. As we've been detailing over the past year, O'Dwyer ran a site called TVShack.net, that was a search engine for TV shows. It pointed people to the results, some of which were authorized -- and some of which were infringing. But, of course, a search engine should not reasonably be blamed for the results in points to. In fact, the admin of an extremely similar site in the UK, TV-Links, had faced criminal charges in the UK, but was found not guilty, because just linking to infringing content is not a crime. And yet... the US has pushed really hard to extradite O'Dwyer, and tragically, the UK has approved this charade.

Wales recently met with O'Dwyer and learned the details of the story, and was quite reasonably horrified:

Given the thin case against him, it is an outrage that he is being extradited to the US to face felony charges. No US citizen has ever been brought to the UK for alleged criminal activity on US soil. There is a disparity here that ought to raise concerns at the highest levels of government in both the US and UK.
From the beginning of the internet, we have seen a struggle between the interests of the "content industry" and the general public. Due to heavy lobbying and much money lavished on politicians, until very recently the content industry has won every battle. Internet users handed the industry its first major defeat earlier this year with the epic Sopa-Pipa protests over planned copyright laws that culminated in a widespread internet blackout and 10 million people contacting the US Congress to voice their opposition.
O'Dwyer is the human face of that battle, and if he's extradited and convicted, he will bear the human cost.

Wales has set up an online petition addressed to the UK government seeking to stop the extradition of O'Dwyer. Who knows if it will actually have any impact, but getting more people to speak out about this ridiculous overreach by ICE and the Justice Department would be a good thing.

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Filed Under: doj, extradition, ice, jimmy wales, richard o'dwyer, tv links, tvshack, uk

121 Comments

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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:10am

This is a continuing shame of the UK.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:21am

We Canadians often worry about becoming, by degree, the 51st state. It seems the UK beat us to it.
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ken (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:25am

Bad and dangerous precedent
What is alarming about this case is it sets the stage for other countries to demand extradition of US citizens for breaking foreign laws for acts that are legal and even Constitutionally protected in the United States.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:31am

Global Police State funded by lobbyists.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:37am

The UK drops trou and takes it up the shitter every time their US masters come a calling. What else is new?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:38am

Re:
You are the 52nd state.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:40am

i am so pleased to see this, especially with the disgraceful proposals that have been put forward in Japan for ISP level monitoring and censorship. once implemented there, you can bet it will be wanted everywhere. i do not for the life of me understand why the world's ISPs dont just join forces and tell the entertainment industries where to go. what the hell is it that has everyone running shit scared of Hollywood? it's not that it is even something that people cant do without. it's plastic discs of make-believe, for christ's sake
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:41am

Die Criminals, Die!
Thanks to corporate criminality, we see the worst laws, prosecutions and persecutions that criminal corporate money can buy from the criminal politicians and their criminal minions.

You corporate criminals, criminal politicians and your criminal minions have escalated it to a fight to the death. The people will bring about a speedy end to your dangerous, cancerous existence.

You will all die imminently, painfully and miserably, burn in hell for eternity and your names will live in infamy forever.

The People promise.
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Richard, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:45am

Re: Bad and dangerous precedent
I've thought the same thing. Take the situation where an American citizen came upon, and published documents that the Iranian government considered illegal to release. All done on American soil. Why wouldn't they be within their rights to demand that persons extradition to Iran for trial and imprisonment? Its pretty much the same situation.
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FuzzyDuck, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:51am

Re: Re: Bad and dangerous precedent
Yep and of course "treason" towards Iran. Because everyone anywhere in the world owes allegiance to Iran as much as they do to the USA.
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Baldaur Regis (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:53am

Yo Britain! You know what's great about being a sovereign nation? YOU'RE SOVEREIGN!!! You don't have to take anybody's shit within your borders, and if some spineless ninnies in a previous government agreed to a stupid treaty, here's that whole sovereignty thing again: YOU CAN CHANGE IT.

So man up, grow a pair and tell your wayward cousins across the pond to piss off. AND DON'T SEND YOUR OWN CITIZENS to some jerkwater country that has to outsource its own penal system.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:55am

"What is alarming about this case is it sets the stage for other countries to demand extradition of US citizens for breaking foreign laws for acts that are legal and even Constitutionally protected in the United States."

Which, of course, the US is going to raise a fuss and make ridiculous double standards over.
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el_segfaulto (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:03am

Re:
What is this "UK" that you speak of? Ahhh yes, the quaint term once used for Airstrip One.
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lucidrenegade (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:07am

Re:
What's really sad is that about 240 years ago the U.S. was England's bitch. How the times have changed.
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MrWilson, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:19am

Re: Re: Re: Bad and dangerous precedent
No, that's just an act of war and Iran's National Defense Authorization Act allows them to kill U.S. citizens remotely via a drone.

Wait...that's the US.
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MrWilson, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:20am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad and dangerous precedent
Yeah, yeah. It's detention and not execution in the NDAA, but there isn't much of a difference when you disappear.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:22am

Re: Re:
Hey now, each province can be its own state.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:25am

Sergey scared to do it himself?
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MrWilson, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:26am

Re:
Welcome to indirect imperialism. We control you through diplomacy rather than force of arms. How long til the US Ambassador to the UK is named as Governor of the Old England Colonies?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:32am

Re:
LOL

Keep pretending it's only about "plastic discs" and not content.

They run scared of Hollywood because people aren't using Google to pirate crappy non-studio content.

btw, Wales defending a criminal is a new low for him, and that's saying a lot.
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DOlz, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:33am

Re: Re: Bad and dangerous precedent
Because they're not the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, damn it! Only our laws apply to the rest of the world. (Yes I am embarrassed and ashamed of what our country has become)
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Anonymous Coward of Esteemed Trolling (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:39am

Theresa May.... How much will you get for Richard ?
You would think that with all the privilege they have, they would just lay low and be happy to own so much of the worlds wealth. They must be really stupid, starting wars on the majority of people will not end well for them.
"Quit while you are ahead" must not be in their vocabulary.

As for the "useful idiot",Theresa May...
She needs start serving the people.
The police hate her (from a right wing paper..ouchhh) , the public hate her and I am sure the security services also hate her, for trying to outsource and privatize fucking everything that has taken years and skill to build.

"Serve the people" must be a really hard concept to grasp.
money is easier to grasp....amirite
Theresa May's ACTIONS suggest that money is more important than people and peoples security.
She will sell Richard O'Dwyer in a heartbeat.
The CORPORATE POLICE she is inventing. Another fine example of fascist ideology.
The spying she supports... it's about getting rid of the security services and employing contractors.

‎
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:43am

Re: Re:
Innocent until proven guilty chump!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:53am

They also don't have a case
Ummm....TVShack was a linking site. It didn't host infringing content, and it didn't serve infringing content. It let users search for results, and returned links to third-party sites.

Now, as far as I understand the current precedents, this isn't even illegal in the United States. We've seen it established over and over again that linking to infringing content is not, in itself, infringement. If I Google for an infringing movie download, and find it, Google isn't liable. If I find a link to infringing content on a blog, the blog owner isn't liable (unless they also uploaded the content at the other end of the link).

Don't get me wrong, I think that this whole extradition thing is a travesty of justice. But even if the DOJ somehow manages to extradite O'Dwyer, and bring him to trial in the US for somehow violating US law...the case is going to be a huge embarrassment for the government, and they're almost certainly going to lose.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:54am

Re: Re:
btw, Wales defending a criminal is a new low for him, and that's saying a lot.

Not "a criminal". O'Dwyer has not been found guilty of anything as far as I know.

But hey, since we are just slinging around unfounded derogatory terms at people now, here's one for you:

You are as thick as manure and only half as useful.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:57am

Re: Re: Re:
except Quebec... no one wants Quebec... :D
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:01am

Mike,

The reason people think you've sided with the pirates and not the artists is because of stuff like this. You're defending this pirate. You're critical of everything that's being done to him. But you don't care at all about his victims. You don't care about justice for them.

Day in and day out, you choose the pirates over the artists. The O'Dwyer case is just one example out of many of this.
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Manok, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:02am

And it gets even more ridiculous, as the U.S. does for instance not recognize the International Court of Justice's jurisdiction. God forbid that any U.S. soldier who murdered 10+ Afhans or tortured Iraqis might actually be held accountable, and get more punishment than a demotion or dishonorable discharge.

But the rest of the world should recognize the jurisdiction of the U.S. ???
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Colin, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:10am

Re:
So you'll have no problem letting us know what he pirated, right?
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xebikr (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:12am

Re: Re:
Wales defending a criminal is a new low for him

Richard O'Dwyer is not a criminal, that's the point. I can do anything I like as long as I don't break the laws where I am at, and he should be able to as well.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:16am

Re:
"The reason people think you've sided with the pirates and not the artists is because of stuff like this. You're defending this pirate. You're critical of everything that's being done to him. But you don't care at all about his victims. You don't care about justice for them."

WTF? This guy ran a search engine and has never once been shown to be a "pirate". So, the truth is that people think Mike sides with pirates is because you and people like you don't have the modicum of intelligence required to read an article properly before commenting and simply label someone as a pirate if this site has anything nice to say about them.

Enjoy your wonderful, albeit ignorant, day....
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Mason Wheeler, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:17am

Re:
Umm... is there actually any evidence that O'Dwyer pirated anything in the first place?
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Zos (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:19am

Re:
tell that to marc emery.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:24am

Re:
The O'Dwyer case is just one example out of many of this.

No it's not. It's a perfect example of over-enforcing intellectual property rights at the expense of basic human rights.

I really have no problem with intelluctual property rights being enforced. Go for it, have fun, waste your time and money. No sweat off my back.

It's when that enforcement collides with my rights to anonymity, free speech and due process or when you attempt to use my hard earned tax dollars to do so that I have a problem. And I will fight you tooth and nail to protect that which I hold dearly.
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bob, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:27am

More astroturfing from Big Search
I wonder how much he got this time from Big Search? Or maybe this was a lagniappe.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/18/brin-and-wojcicki-give-500000-to-charity-behind-wikiped ia/

Of course Big Search wants pirate sites to live because that means that more people will come to Big Search for content instead of going to iTunes or Amazon.

The question is how much of that $500k was shared with the editors doing all of the work at Wikipedia? Oh wait. I forgot. They're supposed to do all the work for free because it's cool. Sharing is only cool if the content companies are asked to share. It's not cool if Big Search or the Wikipedia is asked to share its revenues.
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Anonymous Coward With A Unique Writing Style, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:30am

Re:
Obviously, you know nothing about the case.

Otherwise, you would know that O'Dwyer has yet to be convicted of any crime, thus he is not a criminal, much less a pirate. He merely ran a site. A site where other people, meaning NOT HIM, were posting links to material. It's also worth noting, that no such material was hosted on his site. And in point of fact, his site is perfectly legal within the bounds of the law in the U.K. Which is where he lives and where he operated about his site.

The reason people like Mike and myself and others here are critical of what's being done to him is simple. A citizen of another country is being extradited to the United States for something that is legal in his own country, and despite the fact that he has never once committed a crime in the United States, much less soot foot here.

Can you show us his victims? Because he has none. However, there may be some but they weren't victims of any actions on his part but of the actions of users of his site, which is a big difference. Again, it's trying to hold one responsible for the actions of others, and that is a serious problem for people with half a brain.

Also, if Mike chooses "the pirates over the artists" day in and day out, could you explain why he routinely celebrates and praises the actions of artists like Nina Paley, Louis C.K., Dan Bull, Amanda Palmer and many of others (some of whom are much bigger and popular than others)? Because if Mike was truly against artists as yourself and a few other Cowards claim he is, he would NEVER even mention such success stories. Nor would he offer suggestions and ideas on how artists can find more means of creating revenue streams utilizing advancements in technology and the internet in general.

Seriously, stfu or present evidence to support your wild allegations which are as far from true as you can get. Because if you want, I think you'll find people on this site for the most part will enthusiastically back up any claims they make (with evidence and proof of an independent nature) just to put you and your BS in it's place.
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Colin, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:39am

Re: Re:
lso, if Mike chooses "the pirates over the artists" day in and day out, could you explain why he routinely celebrates and praises the actions of artists like Nina Paley, Louis C.K., Dan Bull, Amanda Palmer and many of others (some of whom are much bigger and popular than others)?

Because they aren't "real" artists or something like that...
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jupiterkansas (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:39am

Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
there is no such thing as Big Search.
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Kaden (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:40am

Re:
This is defending rule of law and national sovereignty. Dude ran a search engine, not a stolen Man-o-War with a skull and crossbones flag.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:51am

Re: Re:
Evidence was presented to the judge who issued the warrant for his arrest. Not sure what your point is.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:52am

Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
He means general search engines. Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:53am

Re: Re:
Talk to the prosecutors. They obviously have enough evidence to get an arrest warrant. The judge thought so too...

You're doing what Mike does: Defend this guy, with no concern shown for the victims.
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Anonymous Coward With A Unique Writing Style, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:53am

Re: Re: Re:
Dang! I forgot about that. If you aren't a "real" artist of one sort or another then you aren't actually an artist. How silly of me.

And I know you don't mean that. But I forgot that's the reasoning the shills/trolls use.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:55am

Re: Re:
He didn't run some innocent search engine. He ran a site dedicated to piracy. When the feds seized his first domain name, he immediately set up a new site under a new domain name (and a "fuck you" message to the feds). Never a good idea to mess with the feds.

Nonetheless, Mike ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS sides with the pirates. O'Dwyer is but one example. I'm just pointing out the obvious. I know some of his hardcore fans, like yourself, don't see it. But everyone else does.
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The eejit (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:57am

Re:
Not always. Sometimes we clean up, too!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:57am

Re: Re:
At the expense of human rights? LOL! Nope. Some punk kid knowingly broke the law and knowingly violated other people's rights, and then he got BUSTED. And all you guys can do is defend him. Mike's site is 100% piracy-apologism 100% of the time. Busting this punk hasn't violated his rights. Give me a break. The reason he's being extradited is because he violated other people's rights. But you don't care about that. Neither does Mike. Hence the reason pirates flock to him.
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The eejit (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:59am

Re: Re:
Where has o'Dwyer been convicted in a court of law?

Oh, that's right, nowhere.

So how would you like it if we extradited you to the UK because you didn't tip your hat to the Queen? (yes, that's actually a thing - a very old one, but a law on the book nonetheless).
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:59am

Re: Re: Re:
What victims?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:59am

Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
I like to put a couple of corrections in Wikipedia because I want to. My friends have put new information in because they wanted to. I think it is great that someone took the time and effort to build a site that would let me do that. Wikipedia can keep all of the money it makes or donate it to a good cause. People aren't forced to put things into Wikipedia. The great thing is Wikipedia will only have information from people who want to share it freely and not from people like you.
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The eejit (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:59am

Re: Re:
Not really. Britain is made up of mongrels and immigrants. It's all in the History books.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:00am

Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
I really hope someone gets to study your delusions eventually.
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The eejit (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:02am

Re: Re: Re:
No, there has been no criminal case. At all. Not even in the US in absentia. Hell, we even have videoconferencing these days. But that's too sensible. No, let's pay many hundreds of thousands of dollars to send someone who isn't even a criminal to another sovereign state, so he can face his "accusers", the real thieves of culture.
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The eejit (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:02am

Re: Re: Re:
Which explains why you have a name here, and I don't.

Oh, wait...
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The eejit (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:04am

Re: Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
Two of which are owned by content conpanies.

So Big Search is obviously a MAFIAA cover for stealing.

THEY'RE STEALING FROM EVERYONE!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:05am

Re: Re:
Obviously, you know nothing about the case.

I've read everything I could get my hands on.

Otherwise, you would know that O'Dwyer has yet to be convicted of any crime, thus he is not a criminal, much less a pirate. He merely ran a site. A site where other people, meaning NOT HIM, were posting links to material. It's also worth noting, that no such material was hosted on his site. And in point of fact, his site is perfectly legal within the bounds of the law in the U.K. Which is where he lives and where he operated about his site.

Nope. The judge in the UK ruled that what he did could be a crime there. Are you sure you're familiar with the case? Besides, he's being accused of violating US law.

The reason people like Mike and myself and others here are critical of what's being done to him is simple. A citizen of another country is being extradited to the United States for something that is legal in his own country, and despite the fact that he has never once committed a crime in the United States, much less soot foot here.

Again, the judge ruled that what he did could be a crime in the UK, so you don't have the proper facts. Where he was when he committed the crime doesn't really matter. A person can violate US law and be answerable in a court of law in the US even if that person is in another country.

Can you show us his victims? Because he has none. However, there may be some but they weren't victims of any actions on his part but of the actions of users of his site, which is a big difference. Again, it's trying to hold one responsible for the actions of others, and that is a serious problem for people with half a brain.

Um, the copyright holders are the victims. I know that's hard for a pirate-defender such as yourself to grok. He's being punished for his own actions.

Also, if Mike chooses "the pirates over the artists" day in and day out, could you explain why he routinely celebrates and praises the actions of artists like Nina Paley, Louis C.K., Dan Bull, Amanda Palmer and many of others (some of whom are much bigger and popular than others)? Because if Mike was truly against artists as yourself and a few other Cowards claim he is, he would NEVER even mention such success stories. Nor would he offer suggestions and ideas on how artists can find more means of creating revenue streams utilizing advancements in technology and the internet in general.

It's the FACT that he hates copyright so much, and that he hates anyone who has or enforces their copyright rights. If he truly cared about artists, he wouldn't begrudge them having and/or enforcing their rights. Instead, Mike ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS defends the pirates whenever there's an infringement case.

Seriously, stfu or present evidence to support your wild allegations which are as far from true as you can get. Because if you want, I think you'll find people on this site for the most part will enthusiastically back up any claims they make (with evidence and proof of an independent nature) just to put you and your BS in it's place.

What are you, like 10 or 12? I know 12 year olds are Mike's target audience. Nothing else could explain the childish nonsense he publishes with scary, OCD-like drive.
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Jeff (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:07am

Re: Re: Re:
Once again - you haven't proven anything. He doesn't live in the United States, and never has been here - explain to me with your withering intellect - why should he taken from his home in a foreign land, brought here to the United States and tried for "crimes" he didn't commit here? Do we bring people to United States to stand trial for patronizing Amsterdam's famous "red light district"? This is an outrageous over-reach, and frankly as a tax-payer I'm ashamed of my governments actions.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:07am

From the petition: "Copyright is an important institution, serving a beneficial moral and economic purpose."

Citation needed!

As long as we keep granting them that basic premise, they have have every reason to take away our rights. There is absolutely nothing redeeming in the notion of intellectual property. It's nothing but legalized rent-seeking.
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Anonymous Coward With A Unique Writing Style, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:11am

Re: Re: Re:
And as we all know, setting up ANOTHER website which is PERFECTLY LEGAL (under the laws of the country you live and operate out of), is sending a "fuck you" message to the feds and messing with them. /s

Sorry, but your rabid "he's a pirate" and "you're all apologists" message is seriously falling on deaf ears til you realize, that contrary to the opinion of some, the rest of the countries on the planet DO NOT fall under U.S. jurisdiction and rule.

Also, Mike never sides with the pirates, but he does question the actions of those going after them. Stretching, abusing and changing laws to go after someone who you cannot with any definitive certainty say has committed a crime, much less caused actual damages, is a bit much and is a perfectly reasonable thing to ponder and voice concerns over.

In point of fact, Mike has on numerous occasions said that piracy is wrong, it is illegal and he DOES NOT condone it. However, he says that fighting it tooth and nail while not offering more legitimate alternatives and actually listening to what people want is most definitely not going to fix the problem. Especially not when done in conjunctions with things such as this, extraditing someone from their home country for something that isn't illegal there and trying to hold them responsible for the actions of others. That's basically saying, "Fuck you. We are the U.S. and our corporations have free reign to do as they please and we will do what is necessary to let them have their way on their behalf." It only enrages people and makes them further want to flaunt and mock copyright laws, it does not make them want to respect them.

So you see, such actions are more harmful in the long run. But it takes a reasonable mind to see that. Of course, if one doesn't have a reasonable mind, then "you're all pirates and criminals and we're going to get you" will be your fall back response and you'll applaud such actions, as trivial, wasteful and harmful as they are.
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Anonymous Coward of Esteemed Trolling (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:12am

Pirate is a word to describe good, kind sharing....PROBLEM ?
"sided with the pirates and not the artists"

Since when are the two exclusive ?
That just void's your whole argument.
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Jeff (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:16am

Re: Re: Re:
And we have another stalker!!!

Pirate MIKEY!!@! ARHGHRHGHR!!!

Really - you should get that obsession checked out.
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Anonymous Coward of Esteemed Trolling (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:21am

Big Search for your braincells ?
What's with your obsession of "Big Search" ?

As for the other anti-technology , anti-reality, anti-culture and anti-share comments of yours....

I had a really "Big Search",
I looked everywhere that I could think to look,
I even looked in the toilet,
but alas the "Big Search continues.....
I am still looking for a fuck to give !
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:23am

Re: Re:
Sure because these days we don't even need the disks and the important part remains "make believe".

All this drama over make believe.
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Rekrul, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:24am

The petition is up to over 29,000 signatures now. It only had about 6,000 when I signed it yesterday.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:34am

Re: Re: Re:
The US government has gone lawless and the US is now a rogue country, like Zimbawbwe or Putin's Russia.

The fact that a warrant was obtained is as meaningful as a warrant being obtained against an enemy of the government in Russia. I trust US convictions as much as I trust convictions passed by the courts of Zimbawbe against enemies of Mugabe.

Once the government is corrupt, institutions such as the courts cannot be taken on trust anymore. Maybe the officials involved in a particular case are clean, just as a court hearing a case in Russia or Zimbawbe might be clean.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:38am

Re: Re: Re:
Yes, it's not a good idea to mess with the feds, anymore than it's a good idea to mess with the religious police in Iran or the Teliban in remote Afghanistan villages. It was also not a good idea to mess with the KGB when they were in operation.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:41am

Re: Re: Re:
Some punk kid knowingly broke the law...

Umm. No he didn't. Read about the case. He was doing something found to be completely legal in his own country.

Busting this punk hasn't violated his rights.

Yes it has.

The reason he's being extradited is because he violated other people's rights.

No he didn't. That's the whole point. What he was doing was found to be legal. Perhaps the users of his site violated other people's rights. If that is the case then place blame where it belongs - on the users, not the tool.

Unless you think we should outlaw all guitars because some have been used as weapons in aggravated assault cases, your argument makes no sense.
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[citation needed or GTFO], 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:43am

Re: Re:
Wales defending a criminal is a new low for him.

No, you're a criminal.

...See? Just calling someone a criminal doesn't make it true.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:45am

Re:
Richard O 'Dwyer is the victim. He clearly obeyed the laws of the UK and never did anything in the US illegal or otherwise and none the less the US is trying to extradite him. How the fuck would feel if you wore in his shoes?!
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:46am

Re: Re: Re:
Evidence was presented to the judge who issued the warrant for his arrest. Not sure what your point is.

Citation needed. How do you *know* that evidence was presented, and it wasn't just the DOJ claiming that he broke the law?

You know, because the DOJ would never claim something that wasn't true, right? *cough*Dajaz1*cough*

Do you have any actual arguments, or are you just going to go with appeals to authority and straw men?
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Anonymous Coward of Esteemed Trolling (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:48am

Adapt .... or copyright will destroy itself
"All these issues, including the millions if not billions of filesharers prove that copyright must be 100% a-ok."
"Don't be a heretic, don't question copyright", etc.... bitch please
Copyright, not the "breach of it" is the problem.

PROBLEM ?
Send your complaint via the internet(aka..P2P network) to...

Anonymous Coward of Esteemed Trolling
1 wantToSell WorthlessCopies Road
County PoorPeopleDontDeserveCopies East
Southern GreedyBastard-istan (SG)
URA-CUN7
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:52am

Re: Re: Re:
The judge in the UK ruled that what he did could be a crime there.

The judge stated that he did not commit a crime. Why is it that you keep glossing over this point when it's repeatedly made to you?

Besides, he's being accused of violating US law.

Except he wasn't in the US. You ever eat bacon? Hey, that's a crime in Sharia countries! Oh- but you were in the US when you did it? Doesn't matter! Your own logic states that you are a dangerous criminal that needs to be put to death!

Where he was when he committed the crime doesn't really matter. A person can violate US law and be answerable in a court of law in the US even if that person is in another country.

So when some court in Wherethefuckistan wants to extradite you because you don't pray to Mecca four times a day, or because you worked on the Sabbath that's perfectly OK, right? If it's good enough for the US, it's good enough for everybody else.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: Re:
Where he was when he committed the crime doesn't really matter. A person can violate US law and be answerable in a court of law in the US even if that person is in another country.

Heh. You probably better be careful what you say online then since you believe that you are answerable to another country's laws. Sharia Law is pretty harsh and Iran's justice system is no picnic either.
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Gwiz (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 12:17pm

Re: Re: Re:
I know 12 year olds are Mike's target audience.

It's becoming obvious that you don't know and just make shit up on the spot as you go along.

Techdirt's demographics from Quantcast:

45% age 35 or older (71% age 25 or older)
47% earn 50k or more (indicates professionals in their fields)
67% are college educated

Sorry, Techdirt's readers are not all pimply faced teenagers in Mom's basement.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 12:18pm

Re: Re: Re:
A person can violate US law and be answerable in a court of law in the US even if that person is in another country

Excuse me? The entire world is under jurisdiction of the US now? Really? Please explain.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 12:26pm

Re: Re: Re:
I've read everything I could get my hands on.

You said you read it. You didn't say you understood it. Big difference.

It's the FACT that he hates copyright so much, and that he hates anyone who has or enforces their copyright rights. If he truly cared about artists, he wouldn't begrudge them having and/or enforcing their rights. Instead, Mike ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS defends the pirates whenever there's an infringement case.

And, so what? Thats your problem. His prerogative. You don't like what he writes, you don't have to come here. Its your choice. Sound like you are just upset because he doesn't come to your aid. Yet there are blogs out there on the other side of the issue, that are against the pirates and for the artists (you do know how to use google, don't you?) and they present the other side. So, whats the problem? You just don't like the it here? We got the message. We have our own opinions. We just don't like yours. That's our right, just as it is yours.
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Richard (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:14pm

Re:
The reason people think you've sided with the pirates and not the artists is because of stuff like this.

Show me an actual artist who supports the extradition of Richard O'Dwyer.

Even with your attitude to copyright infringement you should still oppose this extradition.

Surely if he has done something illegal he can be prosecuted in the UK. He has never set foot in the US in his life. How on earth can he be prosecuted in the US for doing something in the UK?

Even if he is "Guilty" of something it is only a cruel and heartless person like you seem to be who could demand that he be uprooted from his home and family and transported to a foriegn country and tried under a foreign law.

I wouldn't wish that onb my worst enemy. What kind of person are you?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:34pm

Re: Bad and dangerous precedent
You are dumb
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bob, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:37pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yup. It is 98% apologies around here-- except for a few people like me.

And I love how everyone wants to defend his human rights. My copyrights are rights too and so let's hear some cheers for the US government defending those rights.

Oh wait. The cheap couch potatoes around here can't bring themselves to spend a few lousy bucks for iTunes or a Netflix subscription. So you'll wrap yourself in the flag of "human rights" so you don't have to admit that you're just a cheap jerk who won't pull his/her own weight.

Let me tell you something bucko: people like Martin Luther King and Peter Zenger fought for human rights. It's wrong to lump together their fight with the cheap bums who can't spend 99 cents for a song.
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bob, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:40pm

Re:
And you know what's else comes along with sovereignty? The responsibility to get along with your neighbors. If one of your inhabitants is causing pain on the other side of the border, you've got to decide how you want to treat your neighbors.

It's one thing for a country to protect a quiet asylum seeker who comes to a new country and tries to fit in. It's another when the person is meddling across borders.

A sovereign is going to smooth things over with a neighbor just like a real human. And that may mean handing over jerks to the other country.
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bob, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:42pm

Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
Sure. Right. Big Search is ten times bigger in market capitalization than any of the Hollywood content companies. It's hilarious how people think that Big Search is a little guy. Come on, it's a bunch of billionaires who don't want to pay the content creators and it's no wonder that Wikipedia fits right in. How much of that $500k did Jimmie Wales share with the people who did the work?
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:43pm

America has the most retarded people on the planet second is the UK which is really a mini USA It would be great if the US and the UK just did not exist
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bob, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:45pm

Re: Re:
I support it.

And he should too. Let me him come to the US and prove that he's as innocent as all of the people around here claim. If he's really as innocent as everyone says, he should have little to fear. Then he can come and be a celebrity. Maybe Big Search will give him a job.

And let me clue you in to what happens to people who are "guilty", with or without quote marks. They get uprooted from their home and family and transported to jail, often in another state on the other side of the country. It happens to people who break all kinds of laws.

He made his choices. They gave him a chance to quit. He chose differently.
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bob, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:47pm

Re:
Of course. Wikipedia is now a lobbying arm of Big Search. And Big Search takes a tax deduction for funding them. What a great way to live.
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bob, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:48pm

Re: They also don't have a case
I'm sure they have a plan. They don't want to lose a high profile case after spending so much time on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there are dozens of smoking gun memos showing that it is much more than simple search engine.
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bob, 25 Jun 2012 @ 2:51pm

Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
You're right that it wouldn't make sense to try to pay you for a few corrections, but you're not the real backbone of Wikipedia. There are hundreds if not thousands of editors who keep everything organized. They work hard. And they don't get any of Big Search's "gift". Because Wikipedia doesn't believe in sharing with the people who actually do the work.
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Richard (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 3:02pm

Re: Re: Re:
Evidence was presented to the judge who issued the warrant for his arrest. Not sure what your point is.
No it wasn't!
The UK signed a very one sided extradition treaty with the US a few years ago and now there is no requirement to present any actual evidence.

Somnehow our foolish government believed that the US could be trusted not to abuse the treaty. It turns out that they were wrong.
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Richard (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 3:05pm

Re: Re: Re:
Some punk kid knowingly broke the law and knowingly violated other people's rights

Broke the law of a foriegn country - whose laws he could not reasonably be expected to know.

How many times have you broken Saudi law? Do you even know?
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Richard (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 3:15pm

Re: Re: Re:
I support it.

Then you can't be an actual artist - thought not.

Let me him come to the US and prove that he's as innocent as all of the people around here claim.

OK - would you come to the UK and be tried under our notorious libel laws - you've said plenty that could trigger a case!
Since he has never set foot in the US there is no sane reason for him to stand trial there. If he has done something wrong in the UK he should be tried in the UK.

I find your assertion that US law should apply worldwide to be offensive in the extreme.
And let me clue you in to what happens to people who are "guilty", with or without quote marks. They get uprooted from their home and family and transported to jail, often in another state on the other side of the country. It happens to people who break all kinds of laws.

Two wrongs don't make a right - and "across the country" is very different to "to another country."

Look Bob - even the Dail Mail disagrees with you - you are really beyond the pale on this one.
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chelleliberty (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 4:00pm

Sure Pirate Mike
Trying to shill for a guy who ran a site called TVs "hack". I mean, c'mon, why are you trying to step up to protect a scumbag hacker?

Clearly this is another example of your and Jimbo Wales's desire stop government from having any way to protect us; even through the enforcement of obviously good laws against some of the most egregious violations.

Those who made a choice to hack people's TVs deserve what they get.
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Richard (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 4:06pm

Re: Re:
Of course. Wikipedia is now a lobbying arm of Big Search.

and in a related development the moon landings were faked but there is a base there staffed by escaped Nazis who are planning to return and conquer the world.

Whatever you're smoking, Bob, I think you would be better of selling it than trying to make a living as an artist!
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Richard (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 4:08pm

Re: Re: They also don't have a case
I'm sure they have a plan. They don't want to lose a high profile case after spending so much time on it. I wouldn't be surprised if there are dozens of smoking gun memos showing that it is much more than simple search engine.

I agree they have a plan - but I doubt it involves the kind of evidence you talk about. I think it runs along the lines of "terrify him into a plea bargain and never need to go to trial".
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A Guy (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 4:12pm

Hey, content providers, think PR you !#$%!@
If you keep making martyrs out of people like O'Dwyer, you will always be hated. Do you think your market will grow or shrink due to your machine gun to the foot tour around the world? With the expanding market of choices, how difficult will it be to simply choose not to do business with you again if consumers decide you leave a bad taste in your mouth?

I don't care a lot about O'Dwyer. However, it appears a lot of your potential audience does. This is not in your best interest.
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Richard (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 4:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think you're being a bit mean to the Russians here.
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Richard (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 4:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yup. It is 98% apologies around here-- except for a few people like me.

Yup - you lack the good grace to apologise for all the errors and misguided insults you've perpetrated.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 5:04pm

Re: Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
No, I think he just means Google. :p
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MrWilson, 25 Jun 2012 @ 6:07pm

Re: Re: They also don't have a case
Yeah, I've heard that kind of claim before...around 2003 when everyone was certain that Dubya had some kind of smoking gun intel that proved where the Iraqis had WMDs. And in both cases, they've gotten intel from sources that have an agenda and would benefit from the government's actions.
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A Guy (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 6:21pm

Re: Hey, content providers, think PR you !#$%!@
should be *"their mouth."
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BeeAitch (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 6:49pm

Re: Re:
"A sovereign is going to smooth things over with a neighbor just like a real human. And that may mean handing over jerks to the other country" even though he broke none of his own nation's laws.

Do you see how stupid that actually sounds?

Oh wait, of course you don't, you're bob.
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BeeAitch (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 6:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"And I love how everyone wants to defend his human rights. My copyrights are rights too and so let's hear some cheers for the US government defending those rights."

Human rights trump copy"rights" hands down, every time, no matter how much you may wish the opposite.
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Jeff (profile), 25 Jun 2012 @ 7:24pm

Re: Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
what are you talking about? You are absolutely fucking insane about Big Search... You seriously need to go seek professional help with this obsession you're having.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Somnehow our foolish government believed that the US could be trusted not to abuse the treaty. It turns out that they were wrong.

So the government of the UK entered into a "bad" agreement in the hope and expectation that its provisions wouldn't be enforced? Seriously, that's your argument?

Unlike you, your government's negotiators didn't just fall off the turnip truck as it drove through the village. They got somethingin return. Now they are paying for whatever they got. Too bad for the kid. He knew full well what he was doing was illegal and unfortunately for him, he was stupid enough to subject himself to the jurisdiction of the United States.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
+1. You hit the nail on the head. Most infringement is borne of greed and/or being a cheap sack of shit. Most of these douchebags wouldn't know (or care) what the First Amendment stood for, were they not using it to cloak their own crimes.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 8:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
According to renown Saudi legal scholar, Hassan Bin Soba'ar- you cannot avail yourself to Saudi jurisdiction unless your infringing site is a ".ibn". In which case you're due a good caning, which is all the O'Dwyer kid probably needs.
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Some Truthful Reality, 25 Jun 2012 @ 9:54pm

Re: Re: Re:
"Mike ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS sides with the pirates."

And you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS side with those who care for no one other than themselves at the expense of all others. Surely you meant to say alleged pirates too, yes? /s

If I see evidence of wrong doing and abuse of power on the part of my government and law enforcement, you can be damn sure I'm going to support whomever is at the receiving end of such grievously damaging accusations and try to do everything I can to stop it. Mike does the same in his own way and I salute him for taking a stand in a world where most are too lazy to bother.

Thank God corporate apologists like you are a tiny minority and have your hands tied by the laws of the land as well, otherwise we'd find ourselves living in a world where people are black bagged on a whim with no charges and no trial, there one day and gone forever the next.

The kind of world you irrationally promote through your constant disdain, sarcasm, and lies is one where tyrants rule with an iron fist, where everything in black and white and where you alone decide which is which with no regard to the damage it will cause to the collective whole. You claim to care about artists, but looking at you history it's clear that this is purely a lie, used to further your own personal agenda.

You, who would welcome a world where people have no rights and no means to fight back against injustice, are an enemy to liberty, true democracy, and the will of the people. I pray to God every day that people like you never ever get their hands on even the tiniest modicum of real power, you who would love nothing more than for all of us to live in a dictatorial world where the needs of the few always outweigh the needs of the many.

Your greed, selfishness, hatred, and desire for absolute power and control is as clear to us as the nose on your face. You support all the worst aspects of fascism and tyranny and EVERYONE knows it! So employ all the ad hominem attacks and illogical straw men you want, we will still see right through you because you are as transparent to us as glass and always will be.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2012 @ 10:25pm

Re: Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
Wikipedia is "Big Search"? You kidding, or just jelly?
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jun 2012 @ 2:45am

Re: Re: Re:
'bob' is innerwebs speak for 'fucking idiot.'
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jun 2012 @ 2:50am

Re: Re: Re:
'The Feds' didn't go after him, at least in his perception. In his perception a rogue foreign nation wants to try him for /maybe/ breaking some law that he isn't bound by. If you're going to rail, at least do it intelligently.
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jun 2012 @ 2:56am

Re: Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
No one else is buying the tinfoil hat made up definitions you keep concocting to besmirch others without a shred of evidence.

'bob', n. 'Fucking idiot.'
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Dave, 26 Jun 2012 @ 5:05am

Re: Re: Criminal?
Methinks a troll element is creeping in here. Investigations were dropped in the UK because what he is doing is not a crime in the UK, therefore he is NOT a criminal. Since when have USA laws applied in a foreign land? No wonder you posted this as anonymous coward. About right.
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Dave, 26 Jun 2012 @ 5:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Where he was when he committed the crime doesn't really matter. A person can violate US law and be answerable in a court of law in the US even if that person is in another country."

This is total rubbish. Applicable only if he actually committed the alleged crime in the country concerned, then fled. If he is a citizen in a country where his actions are NOT illegal (which is quite clear in this case), then he should not be answerable for some other country's half-baked idea of what IS illegal. As has been pointed out, probably most of the worlds population would end up being extradited if this was universally applied!
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Anonymous Coward, 26 Jun 2012 @ 10:51am

Any of you losers actually do anything for this kid- like open your wallets and contribute to his defense? Or is your contribution simply to post your idiotic legal theories and sputter indignantly. I see this all the time, whether Ninjavideo, Megaupload or whatever pirate of the week gets caught- the apologist community comes up with everything but money to help its poster boys out of trouble.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 26 Jun 2012 @ 1:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
The maybe he should just say Google instead of trying to make it sound like some conspiracy.

But it's true, the only time I ever use Google is to find illegal downloads of music and movies. I can't imagine what anyone else would use it for. It's pretty obvious that piracy is Google's bread and butter.
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Crosbie Fitch (profile), 26 Jun 2012 @ 3:39pm

Re:
He may as well have said "Slavery is an important institution, serving a beneficial moral and economic purpose, but directing escaping slaves to the underground railroad is not quite the same as actually stealing slaves from their master, and so Richard O'Dwyer does not deserve to be strung up like a common thief."

It seems we're still in the 'Must pay lip service to copyright' era. Even Mike often introduces his articles with "Copyright was created not for the enrichment of publishers, as many assume, but for the benefit of the public." or something like that - on the basis Queen Anne and James Madison wouldn't have granted this privilege for any motive other than it was good for 'we the people'.

You have to talk to people like Karl Fogel or Rick Falkvinge in order to get opinions unadorned by 'copyright is a priori noble' lip service. Perhaps even Nina Paley too?

Folk need to understand the difference between rights (things they're born with) and privileges (rights annulled in the majority), so perhaps check out: http://culturalliberty.org/blog/index.php?id=289
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jupiterkansas (profile), 27 Jun 2012 @ 7:42am

Re: Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
And yet people do that work anyway. Obviously, they don't care because they see what they do as beneficial to mankind, unlike what you do.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 11:51am

Re: Re: Re:
You are trivializing the moon Nazis. You make no mention of the fact that they are unreconstructed. Just what are you trying to pull here?
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: Re:
A 'warrant' was obtained to raid Dotcom's family home in New Zealand, but it was not valid and the raid was illegal.

So much for warrants proving much of anything about anything.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 11:59am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That was the UK's own argument when they entered into this treaty. They insisted it was only and would only be used to combat "terrorism". Other's insisted it would be used for pettier reasons like this and were ridiculed for their trouble.

Sometimes it really sucks to be right and I for one am sick of being told hindsight is everything from fools who lack foresight.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 12:08pm

Re: Re: Re:
I would not go to a rogue nation like Iran if they accused me of a crime because I would have no expectation of a fair trial. It is not sensible to voluntarily go to a rogue country with a lawless government ruled over by "elite" special interests like the government of the US is.
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Jun 2012 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re: Re: More astroturfing from Big Search
Wow, entitlement much?

Why should google pay "the content creators"?
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Al Bert (profile), 3 Jul 2012 @ 2:33pm

Re:
Hell, it's a shame of the US too.
It's a shame on every corrupt sub-human involved and the institutions they've created or subverted for their interests.
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Zos (profile), 9 Jul 2012 @ 1:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad and dangerous precedent
in many cases the way the treaty is written isn't just bilateral, the US has a much easier time getting someone than the other country would doing the same. that's certainly the case in britain and in England, i can only assume it's even worse in little players like New Zealand.
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