Julia Child Foundation Wants An Injunction Against Facts

Robot Makers Redesign Robot After Google Refuses To Give Permission To Make Android-Style Bots

from the open-source? dept

Wed, Sep 5th 2012 4:05pm — Mike Masnick

So the folks over at "Be the Robot" decided to make a cute little robot that could be controlled via your mobile phone. Not surprisingly, they decided to launch the thing on Kickstarter. You might notice that the robot has some resemblance to the Android robot... but it's not quite the same.

Why? Well, originally it was going to be designed as the Android robot... but then at the last minute, they realized that might be a legal issue. Even though Google encourages the use of the robot, it wasn't clear if this was allowed. So the team delayed launching the Kickstarter campaign to go visit Google and to seek permission... where hilarity (and no actual answer) ensued:

Just after we had uploaded the complete project on Kickstarter and about to press the “Submit to the world button” …we started to second guess ourselves and wanted to know are we really allowed to do this?

After further investigations, as well as talking to a few lawyer friends, we discovered that the Google Bug Droid in 2D form and in printed materials is in fact Open Source, so anyone can stick it on posters and make cut outs. But there seemed to be a gray area regarding the issue of whether a 3D version is in fact allowed for resale. So instead of killing the project or possibly getting into legal issues, we thought it would be a good idea to meet with some higher-ups at the Google Android headquarters and hear what they had to say. To make a long story short, at this meeting (during which we felt like we were on a reality TV show) the concept was well received, but there was not definitive answer as to “Yay” or “Nay”.

Not wanting to kill the project after having already put so much work into it, and to make sure we could launch without any issues; we redesigned the outside shell to have a different appearance, while maintaining the same internal integrity and design we developed in the BERO secret lair.

So, it's sorta a little like the Android bot, but not quite, because no one could tell them definitively one way or the other if doing what they wanted to do was allowed. Isn't permission culture just great?

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Filed Under: android, copyright, design, open source, robot, trademark
Companies: be the robot, google

22 Comments

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Shmerl, 5 Sep 2012 @ 4:18pm

Hmm. Didn't Android creators themselves borrow the mascot from an old Atari Lynx game? So it'd weird for them not to allow others to use it as they see fit.

See http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/02/shocker-googles-android-logo-boosted-from-atari-lynx-title-ga/
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- R2-D2, 5 Sep 2012 @ 4:31pm
  
  Android Bot
  The son I bever knew I had!
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  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Sep 2012 @ 5:47pm
    
    Re: Android Bot
    Daddy, how could you neglect me like that? You don't even care enough to know about the existence of your own son? It breaks my power supply to know that you don't even care.
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  - Anonymous Coward, 5 Sep 2012 @ 6:02pm
    
    bever?
    Never!
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- nospacesorspecialcharacters (profile), 5 Sep 2012 @ 5:01pm
  
  Re:
  It's too bad not more detail is given about the conversation with Google, we don't know who they talked to and whether that specific person/dept had any clue about how open source works.
  
  Was it a case of a lawyer using strictly legalalese with them? "It's Open Source, I do not have the authority or am in the position to tell you how to use the trademark".
  
  Was it some marketing drones? "Yeah your idea sounds great... no sorry we don't know anything about Open Source... everyone here seems to like it but I don't know whether it allows you to use it without permission"
  
  Was it a designer? "Awesome, yeah go ahead and use it... Umm you should be OK but obviously I can't speak for the company."
  
  My personal motto tends to be it's better to ask forgiveness than permission, but that's only when money is not involved. OTOH a good lawyer should have been able to advise them on the use without the need to consult Google.
  
  Let's also not forget that it's already being used in the wild and so far Google has not made any hints of moving to shut this stuff down:
  
  http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/22758
  http://www.khamtran.com/2010/08/andy-android-goes- to-phuket/
  http://nexus404.com/2010/10/26/vodafone-australia-unleashes-man-sized-android-mascot-gia nt-andy-the-android-wandering-australian-streets-to-drum-up-support-for-android/
  http://www.android central.com/android-cooler-gets-made-we-want-one-our-next-party-video
  
  Maybe with a little more research they could have attempted to reach this guy for some better advice :-
  http://blog.dyzplastic.com/2010/02/android-mini-collectibles.html
  
  I mean, I may be wrong, has anyone got examples of Google stomping on any of this great creativity?
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  - Be The Robot (profile), 8 Sep 2012 @ 6:58am
    
    Re: Re:
    Regarding the open source aspect...we actually talked to some people very high up that can make the decisions. The Open Source aspect wasn't to use the bug droid shells, we just wanted to share how the APP works with people. From out research, the 2D is allowed and 3D isn't.
    
    As for the guy at dyzplastic...we approached him...not the friendliest response!
    
    We actually wanted to make the bug droid for google and have it released into the wild!
    
    Team BERO
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Perry Mason (Jackie's Uncle), 5 Sep 2012 @ 4:42pm

For Eons, no-one could halt the progress of mankind.
Until some evil SOB came up with Copyright and its bastard child "The Patent".
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- Sheogorath (profile), 7 Sep 2012 @ 1:17am
  
  Re: For Eons, no-one could halt the progress of mankind.
  "Until some evil SOB came up with Copyright and its bastard child "The Patent"."
  Let's not forget their incestuous bastard child, 'The Trademark'.
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Rekrul, 5 Sep 2012 @ 4:46pm

So, it's sorta a little like the Android bot, but not quite, because no one could tell them definitively one way or the other if doing what they wanted to do was allowed.

Google was waiting to see if it made money before suing them. After all, what's the point of suing someone who doesn't have lots of money for you to win in a settlement?
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Sep 2012 @ 4:56pm

Don't Open Source licenses generally have the caveat that you can't sell anything containing whatever was under open source?
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- nospacesorspecialcharacters (profile), 5 Sep 2012 @ 5:05pm
  
  Re:
  Seems like they're using Creative Commons for the trademark:
  
  http://developer.android.com/license.html#attribution
  
  Free to adapt and make commercial use - attribution required.
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  - nospacesorspecialcharacters (profile), 5 Sep 2012 @ 5:10pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Sorry I should make that clearer:-
    
    It's only applying to "01/ Android Robot" which is the part they want to use - you can't use the "Android" text trademark, but you can use the robot with attribution.
    
    The page is aimed at developers but since they're using CC it would apply to any use.
    
    more info:
    http://developer.android.com/distribute/googleplay/promote/brand.html
    
    "Portions of this page are modifications based on work created and shared by the Android Open Source Project and used according to terms described in the Creative Commons 2.5 Attribution License."
    
    That would be enough for me to go ahead and use the robot.
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    - The eejit (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 1:38am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      Never underestimate the power of stupidity, however. If we could use it, we'd never need petrol again.
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- Anonymous Coward, 5 Sep 2012 @ 7:20pm
  
  Open source
  Don't Open Source licenses generally have the caveat that you can't sell anything containing whatever was under open source?
  
  No. You can do pretty much anything you want with anything under an open source license (hence the name,) including redistributing and/or selling it under a different name as long as you provide the source code of what you used (for free) and a copy of the license.
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- Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 8:46am
  
  Re:
  Uhhhh, no! Please read The Open Source Definition.
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- Be The Robot (profile), 8 Sep 2012 @ 6:42am
  
  Re:
  Acutally...the APP ( which is open source is free)...its BERO (the robot) you gotta pay for
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Anonymous Coward, 5 Sep 2012 @ 5:11pm

I'd worry more about disney, looks ever so slightly like a robot in one of their animated movies, and we know how disney likes to react.
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Ninja (profile), 6 Sep 2012 @ 4:32am

Google: We are delighted that you are willing to use the droid bot form on your project however the fact that copyright laws are so damn broken and the fact that we got the form from an Atari game that probably couldn't do any better due to graphics restrictions and incidentally looked like R2D2 so Lucas could actually sue us and you into oblivion because of that. He could also kick the dead body of Atari in the process. So, uh, great project.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Sep 2012 @ 9:11am

Given the ubiquitouness of 3-D products in the marketplace, as well as no apparent inclination of the part of Google to do anything about them, I have to wonder why they even bothered to ask.

A commenter above noted the lack of any indication who it was these persons spoke to. If there is one thing that is a universal truth when dealing with large corporate entities, it is that nobody will ever make any decision if there is even the remotest possibility they may later be criticized.

Just my opinion, but their replacement looks much better than the original. It stands out from the me-too crowd.
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Be The Robot (profile), 8 Sep 2012 @ 6:46am

This thread was great!
As the creator of BERO, I loved reading this thread and it was very insightful. Some of the best comments I have seen about the subject!
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Colin S, 11 Sep 2012 @ 5:16am

Droidbot
But isn't the Android bot, just R2D2 in drag?
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comparateur de mutuelle, 13 Apr 2013 @ 5:57am

Vraiment sympa ce blog, o� peut on trouver plus d information sur ce sujet�? Cela me para�t fort int�ressant. Amicalement,
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