Band Gives Away Latest Album After Label Attempts To Shelve It Until 'Sometime Next Year'

Music Industry

from the how-does-NOW-sound? dept

Wed, Oct 3rd 2012 8:42am — Tim Cushing

Well, if nothing else, you can't knock Death Grips' work ethic. After becoming an indie sensation with their critically-acclaimed 2011 debut, "Exmilitary" (still available for free on Soundcloud), Death Grips signed with Epic and released "The Money Store" in April, 2012.

Rather than rest on their newly-signed laurels, Death Grips announced that they would release another album in October. And release it they did, only without Epic's involvement or blessing. The unofficial release of their third album began with this tweet:

The label wouldn't confirm a release date for NO LOVE DEEP WEB "till next year sometime"
— Death Grips (@DeathGripz) October 1, 2012

"The label wouldn't confirm a release date for NO LOVE DEEP WEB 'till next year sometime'"

Death Grips was looking to put another album out in October and if Epic couldn't keep up with their release schedule, so be it. Another tweet followed, implying that Epic itself hadn't even heard the new album yet:

The label will be hearing the album for the first time with you
— Death Grips (@DeathGripz) October 1, 2012

"The label will be hearing the album for the first time with you."

And away they went, dumping their brand new album into various file lockers and tweeting the links to every new upload and blog entry referring to their impromptu release party.

We only have Death Grips' version of the events at this point, but it looks as though release date negotiations must have gone off the rails sometime on September 30th. A string of tweets paraphrasing a sample used on "Exmilitary's" first track, "Beware," set the stage:

He came to me with money in his hand
He offered me I didn't ask him. I wasn't knockin someones door down. I was running from that.
I looked at it and said this is a bigger jail that I just got out of.
I run the underworld guy. I decide who does what and where they do it at.
What am I gonna run around and act like I'm some teeny bopper somewhere for someone else's money?
I ROLL THE NICKELS. THE GAME IS MINE. I DEAL THE CARDS.

About 12 hours after uploading NO LOVE DEEP WEB to their own site, it went down. Death Grips tweeted that Epic had shut down their website. Epic has since denied it had anything to do with the shutdown. Currently, Death Grips' site is still down. It's entirely possible that the sudden influx of traffic crashed it. There have been no updates on the site's status from Death Grips.

That being said, there are a few reasons Epic might have delayed the release.

1. Major labels like to shelve things, sometimes indefinitely. This seldom makes artists happy, no matter the justification.

2. The album art (definitely NSFW -- unless you're treating this person for erectile dysfunction or are This Guy) was still under discussion.

3. Epic wasn't happy with Death Grips topping the Bittorrent charts, legal or no. Death Grips seems to be fine with it. They're still giving away their first album at Soundcloud (although you're more than welcome to purchase it). Possibly they were considering "alternate distribution" and Epic iced the album in order to talk some sense into them. Not that this plan worked...

So, what have we learned? For starters, pissing off your artists in this day and age can have some serious repercussions, especially if you're in the business of collecting a chunk of every album sold. Windows are made to be broken. Buyer beware. Etc. Does this mean you should kowtow to every demand from your signed artists? No, but this does mean that setting release dates arbitrarily simply won't work anymore.

You also might want to take a good look at the artist you're signing and ask yourself, "Is this a good fit for a major label?" Between the explicit album cover, the Bittorrent numbers, the abrasive, uncompromising musical style, the fact that their first album sounded "like it was recorded under someone's house with a webcam" and the general volatility of the recording industry, maybe everyone involved should have realized it was never going to work out.

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Filed Under: death grips, give away, labels

103 Comments

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Ninja (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 6:57am

Epic fail and epic win?

In another news I now feel compelled to see the album art and listen to their music. Marketing FTW.
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Jay (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 7:02am

What a marriage...
Sounds like EPIC should file for a divorce. Death Grip must be bad if it leaves the torrent seat up.
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Gothenem (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 8:01am

Re: What a marriage...
Marked as funny. Because that is hilarious.

Leaving the torrent seat up.

lmao
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Rikuo (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 8:54am

Correction
" It's entirely possibility that the sudden influx of traffic crashed it."

Should be "It's entirely possible..."
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The eejit (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:03am

Re: What a marriage...
But if you leave the torrent seat down, the eyepatched rats can get in!!!1!!1!11!1
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:06am

Although I feel the band's pain, won't they get into legal trouble with this?
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Zakida Paul (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:10am

Re:
Nail on the head about what is wrong with copyright. A band can get in trouble for doing what they want with THEIR OWN music.
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That One Guy (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:17am

Re:
Possibly, though if I had to guess, Epic will probably try and make this go away as soon as possible, as there really doesn't seem to be a way for them to come out of this looking good.

Signing up and band and then telling them you 'might' get on releasing their albums sometime in the future... yeah, that's not going to look too good if it's brought up in a court.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:19am

Could very well be a publicity stunt too.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:21am

or maybe they should have just turned down signing for a label? seems they were doing ok by themselves anyway, so why screw it up?
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MrWilson, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:30am

[insert IP maximalist shill comment here about how the band is a bunch of evil pirate freetards, despite the same Anonymous Coward melodramatically weeping for the sake of the poor artists on other article comment threads and forgetting to make the distinction between artists' interests and IP-holding corporate interests when they support giving the corporations more power and money]
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:33am

The site is not down. They probably violated the terms of the hosting company with the giant penis cover. It is up now with a warning of adult content.
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wallow-T, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:33am

As an abstract issue, I'm fascinated with the slowdown in album release schedules. 2 albums a year, or maybe 3, was the standard through the 1960's: the Beatles released 14 albums in 7 years, slowing to one per year at the end of their career. 1 per year was the standard work rate when I became a pop music fan in the 1970s, and that meant that every year through high school and college there would be a new release from faves like Jethro Tull and Talking Heads. (Stop mocking me, please.)

But now? 2-3 years seems to be the minimum between major label releases, and gaps of 5-10 years are common. In my day, we called that "retirement." How can artists connect with fans when the fans' lives have changed so much between releases? If you liked a band in junior high, you probably aren't going to like their followup album when you are a college sophomore.
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Spaceboy (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:46am

Re:
DO NOT CLICK THRU. VERY NSFW. Caps for emphasis. Seriously, if you are at work DO NOT CLICK THRU. Picture if a penis at attention with the name of the album written on it.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:49am

The sample quoted is is one from Charles Manson. Jee Jee.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:53am

Re:
Why? They just pulled a successful scam.

They get an advance from a major label, record a spiffy new record in a real studio, buy themselves some nice new gear and cars with the rest of the money, then, knowing the album will never recoup and that they're going to get dropped anyway, they just leak it themselves. They then get free publicity, exposure for any upcoming tours, and they get to keep all the windfall from said endeavors. And since they're dropped from the label, they don't owe one red cent to Epic.

Great scam.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:58am

Re:
I wonder if the above article will now be corrected, or just sit tight with its (now debunked) catty rumor-mongering about Epic...
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 10:00am

Somebody that still believes newly signed artists to major labels are treated to a free ride to a "real studio", "new cars" and "new gear". How quaint.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 10:05am

Oh, and to the bozo that wrote this "article": They just put out a record in April of this year. So the record wasn't being "shelved" until 2013, it was being put on a release schedule that makes sense for a promo department and anyone else with half a brain.

So present company is excluded.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 10:29am

In this day and age with rock stars kicking it from stupidity and or drugs, the labels want to hold on to some of the artists catalog. To release post death to hit them up one more time for money.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 10:33am

Trolls, where art thou?
So where are the trolls to say how we don't care about the artists and how file lockers and torrents are evil?

Proof positive that it is the user, not the tool that can break some rules. Torrents and file lockers forever! (Or at least until the next more efficient thing comes along)
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Franklin G Ryzzo (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 10:40am

Re:
I guess you missed the part of the article where it states that the band released an album in April of 2012 and that they promised their fans another album in October. If the label can't keep up with that, it's no sweat off the band's back as they seem to have solved the problem themselves. They continue to get more exposure and are delivering to their fans what they promised. They get the benefit of professional recording and mixing, the fans get their new material, and the band gets the benefit of additional concert tickets and and merchandise sales due to the increased exposure... everyone wins except the label who is increasingly being behind only because they can't provide the only service they are needed for.

And as for post above... replace the word "scam" with "innovative and successful business model" and it seems like the band gets what they want and deserve a round of high fives. I hope that's exactly how this plays out and wish them all the success they deserve. I'd never actually heard of this band until this article, but I'll definitely be checking them out when I get home.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 10:47am

Re:
I now feel compelled to see the album art and listen to their music.

Funny, I had the same feeling. But it occurs to me now that we could be getting "gamed".

Maybe that's what they want (it could a shot at a new marketing/promotion strategy):

1) Sign a band and release an album the normal way.
2) Have a phantom second album "leaked" 6 months later.
3) Watch sales of the first album skyrocket.
4) Profit.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 10:52am

Yea, for a group consisting of members that have been playing music and creating other art in the "underground", and by all accounts happy to do so. I'm positive their motive has always been money.

/fail
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RD, 3 Oct 2012 @ 11:02am

Re: Re:
"I wonder if the above article will now be corrected, or just sit tight with its (now debunked) catty rumor-mongering about Epic..."

I wonder how I will ever live without reading more of your crap. Report, report, report...
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ltlw0lf (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 11:20am

Re: Re:
They get an advance from a major label, record a spiffy new record in a real studio, buy themselves some nice new gear and cars with the rest of the money, then, knowing the album will never recoup and that they're going to get dropped anyway, they just leak it themselves. They then get free publicity, exposure for any upcoming tours, and they get to keep all the windfall from said endeavors. And since they're dropped from the label, they don't owe one red cent to Epic.

Uhm, I know you don't read articles, or even summaries, but it's in the damn first paragraph. They signed with Epic and released an album, "The Money Store", and this was a second album. Depending on the contract they signed, they may or may not be in trouble, but they already provided the album they signed with Epic for, and this is a new one that Epic apparently didn't want to release.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 11:35am

Re:
I've never heard these guys before, but I am now a fan!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 11:41am

Re: Re:
That no more of a scam that loaning $1000,0000 more the you can handle from Western Union and then eventually filing for bankruptcy.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 11:49am

Re: Re: Re:
Congratulations on being a complete failure at life.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 11:54am

Re:
There is a real issue here, for a bunch of reasons, most of them NOT created by the labels.

Because record sales and income from recorded music (especially to artists) isn't that good, many artists tour to support their albums - that seems to be the industry term these days for "go on the road to make money". While bands use to promote their albums, now they most promote their shows.

Anyway, release album, go on tour for 6 - 12 months, take a breather, and then pen a new album, rehearse it, record it, master it, get artwork, design, whatever else you need... 24 months slipped by.

Add to that now that tours are often more complex, with big staging, props, lighting cues, and the like, that there is also a lead time to rehearse the upcoming show before the album releases. Add to that a normal "pre-release" single a month or two ahead of time, press, and all that... it turns into a pretty long process.

Album releases now are done more on the direction of launching successful tours. The record labels started to move to slotted releases a while back, with everything grouping into a very few release date blocks. Spring is a release time that leads into summer tours, particularly powerful these days for bands or acts that might be doing the summer festival tour thing, or for very large acts that can fill sunshine venues themselves. There is another big slot in the fall, back to school, and again closer to Christmas.

The rest of the time is generally filled in with second, third, and fourth singles off albums, or out of date releases from smaller labels, indies, and acts that the labels want to get out there by themselves - big acts can do it, or perhaps new acts with a twist.

Anyway, what happened with this band is probably not very surprising: They tried to put out too much product too quickly. An April 2012 release should still be in pretty good shape, the band should be off touring and making buzz, and has no need to push that next record out the door yet, especially because they have a previous indie record that gives them material to play live.

In recording terms, the third album is pretty much key for any band. Historically, it's comes at a time when the band is working hard, has built up a following, has done decent levels of touring, either moving up from hard rooms to soft seaters, or perhaps doing opening acts for bigger bands. The third album generally gives a band enough material to be more selective during their shows, and almost always clearly defines the band going forward.

It's also the hardest album for most bands, because it's often written at a point where their well of existing material has run dry, they had to write new stuff, and their life experiences have been different, often making the music very different.

Having to wait until spring of 2013 to refine and release a new album shouldn't be a big deal for a band. To me, these guys actions show that they may have a problem, like not enough touring dates or not enough time taken up in current album promotion. I mean, even if they are doing just 100 date tour since their album released in April, they should be nowhere near done with that. 100 dates done in a "hard run" without any real pauses still takes 20-25 weeks (5 shows a week would be a killer pace... more likely 3 to 4). The would barely be at the end of that right now, without time to record.

Something doesn't add up here.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 11:54am

Re: Re: Re:
If a band is going to be dropped, it is almost invariably after the recording of their second record.

Also, it must once again be reiterated on this pro-piracy propaganda site, that when a band is dropped from a label, their entire debt is forgiven.

They don't owe the label anything, and anything they bought with their advance was essentially done with free money.

Just a little bit of factual information in case some poor bastard stumbles upon this site looking for some.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 11:58am

Re:
Happens numerous times every month.

But you don't know anything about the music business so how could you possibly know that?

You couldn't. Of course that doesn't stop you for making asinine comments. Nice work, douchebag.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:01pm

Re: Re:
They can promise their fans whatever they want, but when they signed with a label it meant they agreed to work with the label. And labels have release schedules for a reason; logistics, marketing, efficient use of human resources, etc.

The only mistake Epic made was signing this band.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:06pm

Bands are made of people, these people at times can be prolific with their output. Putting a time line on inspiration is absurd.
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The eejit (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
...In the meantime, however, there's a lot of funny accounting going on to ensure that reidual payments are as little as possible....except for the megastars.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:16pm

Re:
Then don't sign agreements you have no intention of keeping.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:17pm

Re: Re:
The "band" is fucking atrocious, of course. No surprise there.
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The eejit (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:18pm

Re: Re: Re:
Perhaps. Perhaps not.

What is certain is that the band in this case have gone behind their label's backs.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:22pm

Don't aggressively court bands that you know you can't control.

"The deal was ironed out in less than five hours. The label convinced the group that it was on the same page, promising not to compromise its artistic integrity or assume its publishing rights."

http://www.billboard.com/column/the-juice/death-grips-talk-epic-record-deal-new-music-10 06846552.story#/column/the-juice/death-grips-talk-epic-record-deal-new-music-1006846552.story
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:35pm

Re: Re:
Corrected how?

Did you even read past the sentence that offended you?

Death Grips tweeted that Epic had shut down their website. Epic has since denied it had anything to do with the shutdown. Currently, Death Grips' site is still down. It's entirely possible that the sudden influx of traffic crashed it.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think you've mistaken Techdirt for Torrent Freak.

They both have T in the name, but come on!
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:47pm

Re: Re: Re:
The site isn't down.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Also, it must once again be reiterated on this pro-piracy propaganda site, that when a band is dropped from a label, their entire debt is forgiven."

" If the band is not doing well, the label simply terminates the contract, but the lock-out clause prevents the band from re-recording the material. Even if the label has no interest in the band, the label owns all the recordings. There is no way for the band to re-release an album on its own."

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/recording-contract6.htm

The debt may be forgiven, but they might as well fade into obscurity afterwards.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:50pm

Re:
Don't sign contracts if you plan on breaking them.

That's simple shit a 9 year old knows.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
If a band is going to be dropped, it is almost invariably after the recording of their second record.

That does not appear to be correct in every case. It depends on how the music contract was written. According to wikipedia, which I know you automatically discount, "Advances (upfront money that is paid directly to the recording artist) are normally always owed back to the label." Many artists have come forth and complained, and even sued, their record companies for failing to follow the contract they signed with the artist, or even properly paying them for their work.

Linda Ronstadt signed a contract and received an advance, and then Capitol records figured they spent too much on her and dropped her, yet wanted her to pay them back for the debt. George Michael was required to stay with his record company and could leave, and several artists have been forced to make more albums to "pay back their debts."

Also, it must once again be reiterated on this pro-piracy propaganda site, that when a band is dropped from a label, their entire debt is forgiven.

Also, yet again, you make statements without backing them up with data, and then immediately dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as being a drinking the Kool-aid(TM) of the "pro-piracy propaganda site."
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
No no no, he was just pointing out your asshattery,
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:55pm

The "plan" was to make music and release it, Epic wanted some of that pie. Their loss if they're left washing the dishes for their guests. Stop inviting them over. Make that nine year old do them.
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Franklin G Ryzzo (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:56pm

Re: Re: Re:
While I am not a fan of big labels and am eagerly waiting for them to go extinct, Epic may not have made such a mistake here in signing them. They didn't want to release the album as an official release and wanted to shelve it so the band released it themselves. All this may do in the end is provide additional exposure for the band which could in turn produce additional sales for the next official release.

Hiphop acts put out free material all the time through blogs and mixtapes. This is a proven strategy towards connecting with your fans and gaining exposure. That in turn means more money for the band and for their label. Epic may not be able to capitalize on this release, but that is mostly their choice and their reliance on doing things the "old way".
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That article is a joke.

Anyone that would sign a contract like the one that guy invented deserves whatever they get.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Thanks dbag, but I'm already aware that it's considered asshattery on TD to point out facts that don't make labels look bad.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sorry, they're more reliable on this stuff than an anonymous commenter with an agenda.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:04pm

Re:
If people aren't paying for their albums, a band has to leave their families and go the road to make a living.

If people aren't paying for their albums, there is no incentive or time to stop touring and go into the studio more often.

This means fewer albums. Less new music.

Piracy = less new music.

Way to go, guys.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You left out the part where it includes using ad hominems while at the same time trying to prove your point.

So you got that all covered, good buddy,.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
LOL The guy who wrote it might as well be anonymous. Who is he?
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Marshall Brain. The guy is pretty well-known so I'm sure if he was being disingenuous someone would find dirt on his article somewhere.

Now who you are? Do you have experience with record label contracts or are you just expecting people to take what you say at face value?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:12pm

Re: Re:
Neither do you.

Unless you'd like to post credentials proving otherwise?
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RD, 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:16pm

This comment thread gets the most use of
This comment thread gets the most use of "clicking the report button" that I have ever seen. Fully 1/3 of the comments are from 2 asshat AC's who are trying to nothing more than attack the band and the site. No discussion of any of the merits of any of the viewpoints, just "they suck, you suck, this site sucks, ad hom forever" bullshit crying like a little baby.
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Chuck Norris' Enemy (deceased) (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:25pm

Re: Re:
Except way more music is being recorded today...maybe not through your outdated structure...but I have way more access to new music today than I did 10 years ago.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:28pm

Read his bio. He's a tech dork.

And uh yeah, I most certainly have more experience in the music world and music business than he does lol.

But if you think I'm going to tell you who am just to make your pathetic ass happy, well, you'd be wrong.

Have a nice day.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:35pm

Re:
"Read his bio. He's a tech dork."

Tech dorks can't read label contracts?

"I most certainly have more experience in the music world and music business than he does lol."

Face value it is then. Even if you did, you never backed up any of your claims, so your points are kind of worthless.

"Have a nice day."

Toodles.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:45pm

Re: Re: Re:
He's complaining about the payout to us because we as "pirates" apparently control the huge licensing fees that the labels impose on services like Spotify or Itunes.

Oh yeah, it's also our fault the labels still payout 12% royalties on digital goods distribution even though there's hardly any overhead to justify it.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 1:59pm

Re: Re:
Something doesn't add up here.

I'm guessing it has something to do with you trying to fit this band into an industry formula for making money off plastic discs.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 2:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Post the royalty rates of 20 record labels.

You can't.

Because you have no idea what you're talking about.

Now you and everyone else need to stop whining when people point that out. It's your boneheaded decision to post stupid shit, not mine.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 2:27pm

Re: Re: Re:
Right, and there is absolutely no way a site that crashed due being overwhelmed would ever magically come back on line after the "heavy traffic" subsided to a reasonable level again.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 2:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And who's decision is it for you to post stupid shit?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 2:35pm

Re: Re: Re:
You would prefer a Bieber maybe? You have the fever.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 2:36pm

Re: Re:
Allah you are an idiot, and a one trick pony.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 2:38pm

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I don't give a flying fuck if you are sir paul himself, you are an asshat of the first order.
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The eejit (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 2:54pm

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Would you, perchance, be willing to put a name to your experience? That would help your credibility considerably.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 3:12pm

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Hit and run, eh? Can't say anything different was expected.

Go hide in the shadow of your bridge.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 3:58pm

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They didn't want to "shelve" it lol. You're just believing what the idiot that wrote this article said, without thinking. Brilliant.

The label wanted to work the record that was just put out 5 months ago before moving on to the next one.

What a crazy concept.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 4:00pm

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lol

my credibility is more than solid, thanks. You not knowing who I am isn't going to change that. Sorry.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 5:09pm

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So because you have credentials that you refuse to verify you feel entitled enough to post stupider shit.

Classy.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 5:33pm

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What rumor mongering needs to be debunked?

About 12 hours after uploading NO LOVE DEEP WEB to their own site, it went down. Death Grips tweeted that Epic had shut down their website. Epic has since denied it had anything to do with the shutdown.

This one? What about this following bit?

It's entirely possible that the sudden influx of traffic crashed it.

So Mike didn't say that Epic did, with certainty, shut down the site. Failure to read the article is no excuse.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 5:37pm

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Definition of CREDIBILITY
: the quality or power of inspiring belief

Not really solid. You inspire none.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 5:45pm

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The site was down at the time this was written. It was down for a little more than 24 hours. Seems like the sort of thing that should be pointed out.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 3 Oct 2012 @ 5:47pm

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Ah. The subjective opinion stated as dismissive, empirical fact.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 5:52pm

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Except you have no credibility. Without knowing who you are, any credibility attached to it means exactly nada here. You can claim anything you want, but without backing it up we aren't about to believe you. Unlike Mike who links back to what he's talking about.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 6:16pm

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Just because a freetard says I have no credibility doesn't change the fact that I actually do. Your opinion means nothing and most certainly doesn't change anything. I'm not telling you who I am. Tough for you. Won't change the fact that in reality, the real world in which things happen to people, I do.

More importantly, anyone can read my posts on this thread and then read the ones from the piracy-loving freetards here, and it's pretty obvious which person speaks from experience.
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kaugumi, 3 Oct 2012 @ 6:19pm

creative commons
Hey, the band Death Grips didn�t just �release an album for free�: they allow anyone to make money with it.

According to the Archive.org download link they�ve posted themselves, this album is indeed released under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license, a veeery open one. Of course, it let people share and remix the music, but contrary to the previous license they chose for Ex-Military, it also authorizes commercial uses without asking permission, as long as the music is still credited to the band. Yes, you can use Death Grips music for a TV ad (for an energy drink maybe?), or use it in a big commercial movie. You don�t have to wait for a physical release date, you can start a record label instead, press and sell 10 000 copies of this album without even asking the band NOR Epic/Sony if they are okay with that. read this post: http://amour-discipline.org/zine/death-grips-stick-their-cock-in-the-eye-of-sony-music/
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 6:19pm

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I think you just said the promo department has half a brain. I concur
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 6:23pm

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I would say it's more of a band signing up for something that they didn't want, thinking the deal was all their way. It's not, and as soon as they get caught having to play by their deal, they act like children.

It's pretty classic. It's like hiring a financial planner, and then when he gets everything set up, you raid all the accounts to buy beer.

If you just wanted to buy beer, why bother with the planner?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 7:01pm

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"Just because a freetard says I have no credibility doesn't change the fact that I actually do."

Actually, you don't. You've yet to provide any sort of references to prove your credibility. You've yet to reveal who exactly you are, with proof verifying you are said person with any credibility. And so on and so forth.

"Your opinion means nothing and most certainly doesn't change anything."

Back at you sweetheart. You can say you're as "credible" as you want, still doesn't make it so.

"I'm not telling you who I am."

So we've already established. Basically, you're nobody. And because you're nobody you hide behind the veil of "I can't tell you who I am, but suffice it to say I'm kind of a big deal". Which is the same as saying, "Yeah, I'm nobody. But I like to pretend I'm somebody online. It makes me feel better about my non-existent credibility."

"Tough for you."

More like tough for you. Since the rest of us are already sure you're nobody and until you present any kind of ACTUAL proof showing otherwise, no one's going to believe you. Going "blah blah blah I can't hear you because I'm somebody blah blah blah" won't change that. Tough. For you.

"Won't change the fact that in reality, the real world in which things happen to people, I do."

Aww. That's too cute. You know what? If you say that enough times, it still won't come true. But I bet it gets you through your pathetic day. Barely.

"More importantly, anyone can read my posts on this thread and then read the ones from the piracy-loving freetards here, and it's pretty obvious which person speaks from experience."

Yeah, and that person is definitely not you. It might not be any of the others commenting, but it damn sure isn't you.

Also, I fail to see how anyone up to this point has actually presented anything in the way of evidence, implied or other wise, for you to call anyone here "piracy-loving freetards". Unless calling you out for your bullshit qualifies as "piracy-loving". But that might just be the anger talking. I know if I got called out on something that wasn't true I'd pitch a fit and start insulting people. Oh, wait. I wouldn't. Because I'm not a child. I'd do the adult thing and present proof, even to those who share a viewpoint I disagree with, supporting any/all claims I made about myself. Just to prove them wrong and show that I wasn't making things up.

[pats you on your troll head] There, there sweetie. When the teacher and/or your parents said that you could one day be anything you wanted to be, they didn't actually mean it. They were just trying to humor you. The sad reality is that even at an early age you proved you had nothing to contribute to society or the world at large, and rather than shatter what little self-esteem you had (and what even littler remained as you aged) they decided to lie to you. It happens. No need to take out your anger on the world though just for pointing out how non-credible and definitely unimportant you are.

Oh yeah, one more thing. [points at what I just wrote] THAT is how you talk down to somebody. And it's quite possible to do in a non-childish tone. When you're out of high school you might just be able to talk and write like an adult. But don't worry, you've still got what like 3 or 4 years to go til you finish. You just might learn something by the time you graduate. Doubtful as that is though.

K. Toodles, sunshine.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 7:59pm

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This is an epic failwin of epic proportions?
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 8:24pm

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"Except way more music is being recorded today...maybe not through your outdated structure...but I have way more access to new music today than I did 10 years ago."

You miss the point. Who is making that new music? Is that new music of any great quality? Does anyone want it?

The good news? The tools allow anyone to make music. The bad news? The tools allow anyone to make music. Looking at someone like say Marcus making his horrid opus to a toilet seat or whatever it was, it's clear that while volume has increased, quality is lacking.

quantity != quality

Piracy doesn't hurt the poor quality stuff, nobody wants it. People don't pirate Marcus's crap, because nobody wants it. They pirate the latest LABEL music, because they want it. But the more they take out of the recorded music universe, the more pressure is put on bands to do things that make them a living. If recording music isn't making them money, it becomes more of a necessary evil, a punishment for being able to perform live. The result? They do it as infrequently as possible.

So instead, you mislead yourself by looking at the high volume of sludge coming though the "series of tubes", and try to act like it's vintage wine. It's not. It's sludge.

Piracy = less desirable new music.

Deal with it, it's real.
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Anonymous Coward, 3 Oct 2012 @ 9:38pm

How did a article about a band choosing to put their own music up for download, license free, turn into one about piracy?

Opportunity, meet troll.
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Karl (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 12:01am

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Also, it must once again be reiterated on this pro-piracy propaganda site, that when a band is dropped from a label, their entire debt is forgiven.

It must be again reiterated that this is not even remotely true.

When a band is dropped from their label, they are released from the obligations to record future albums under their contract. But the copyrights (and masters) for the already-produced albums remain with the label.

And their debts are not "forgiven." They still have to be paid back out of their royalties from the records that are already released. Just like they would be if they were still on the label.

Just a little bit of factual information in case some poor bastard actually believes that the above A.C. is not a liar and major label apologist.
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Karl (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 12:13am

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More importantly, anyone can read my posts on this thread and then read the ones from the piracy-loving freetards here, and it's pretty obvious which person speaks from experience.

You're the one that didn't even know that record labels keep the masters after they drop a band.

That's, like, Music School 101 stuff.

Well, either that, or you did know that, and were lying.

Either way, your credibility does not look good.
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PaulT (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 12:56am

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The ACs have the same levels of reading comprehension skills as they do facts and civility - zero.
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PaulT (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 1:02am

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Is that desperation I smell? The resorting to personal attacks and demanding impossible facts (despite providing none to back up your own claims) has come more quickly than normal...
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PaulT (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 1:07am

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Oh dear, personal opinion masquerading as fact, pointless ad hominems, obsessive attacks on someone who's never claimed to be a professional musician, flailing blanket statements and assumptions that fail with a moment's examination... You're losing it again aren't you?

Excuse me, I have to go and listen to the high quality music I legally bought from an independent source and the alternative media I switched to instead of listening to the corporate shite shovelled by your masters. Enjoy the crappy radio hits you so enjoy while they die their deserved death. Your crying is just getting more pathetic.
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PaulT (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 1:37am

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Major labels can't promote more than one record at a time? I thought they were the marketing machine that all bands should aspire to sign with so they can sell more copies? You're now saying they're incapable of handling multiple releases from an artist in a year and would rather piss fans off by withholding an otherwise completed album? An album that many would happily pay for but are not allowed to because the label hasn't decided what they want to do yet?

Funny how you'd focus on the semantic difference between "shelve" and "delay", rather than the fundamental problems of outdated marketing tactics that annoy both fans and artists alike. Windowing a completed release causes far more harm than good in today's market.

Oh, and I'm sure that the album was guaranteed a release next year? There's no chance that the unspecified release date would have been pushed back and then the status possibly changed to shelve it if the label changed their mind? That never happens, right?
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PaulT (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 1:44am

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Wait, aren't you the one usually saying that independent music is crap and major label is good? That the old models must be protected from the new so that quality label music can be produced?

How is this major label band not good? You're not admitting yet another mistake are you?
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PaulT (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 1:45am

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"my credibility is more than solid, thanks"

Sorry, I must have missed where you cited it. Link?
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Ninja (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 3:27am

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I'm comfortable with those tactics ;)
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 6:28am

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Hey man, it's okay I know you're asshurt because you're not one of the many bands suing the labels over the royalty percentage issue.

Though that may be because you're too stupid to see it as an issue, but hell, it's your loss.
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Lowestofthekeys (profile), 4 Oct 2012 @ 6:31am

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You have literally done nothing to prove you do, except engage in obscene amounts of asshattery (as pointed out above).

Then again, since us "shills" can smell our own, you must be a poster boy for the labels since you're undying loyalty has you ignoring the facts.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Oct 2012 @ 8:57am

I believe in Free, so I wanted to like their music. But free is still overpriced for this sonic mess.
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TroutFishingUSA, 4 Oct 2012 @ 1:21pm

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but the lock-out clause prevents the band from re-recording the material. Even if the label has no interest in the band, the label owns all the recordings. There is no way for the band to re-release an album on its own."

There's some truth to that statement, but it is misleading. It also mixes up two concepts. The label owns the specific recordings of said songs, but they don't own the songs themselves.

It's true that a band can never (generally speaking) get a shelved album released, but it's not true that they can never re-record those songs.

It's typical for a contract to stipulate that an artist can't re-record material presented to the label, but there is just as typically a well-defined limit to that term. It's fairly easy to get it added to a contract; but the artist has to know to ask for it. My old record deal locked out re-recordings for five years. No big deal, if you ask me.

It's also not terribly difficult to get clauses that void the contract if the label refuses to release an album. An artist might have to give concessions for it, like a lesser advance/royalty rate/etc. Admittedly, this can be hard for a new artist with no leverage, but if they hire a good lawyer they can avoid being 'ripped off.'

(I feel the need to point out here that the overwhelming majority of record deals, in mine and my acquaintances' experience, are straightforward and transparent. While they're obviously slanted to protect the label's interests, they are not designed to screw the artist; regardless of the sensationalism of the headlines you've seen. Artists, again in my experience, are MUCH more likely to be taken advantage of by their managers (by far the most predatory) and the other members of their team. Especially whomever oversees the finances.)
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TroutFishingUSA, 4 Oct 2012 @ 1:47pm

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Using the word "debt" is a little confusing to people without label experience, I think. It's not capital-D debt, the kind that affects your credit. As in, it's not a personal debt in most cases (ltlw0lf above brings up some instances of debt being attached to the person that I am not familiar with, so I can't comment on that)

But yeah, nothing is "forgiven," and the balance on the advance/everything else must still be recouped.

And if the artist hasn't paid attention to the cross-collateralization aspects of their signings, they might find themselves paying back an old label with new royalties twenty years down the road. This is one major source of a lot of artists' complaints about royalties; their newer success is being siphoned off to pay back for an album flop financed by their first label.
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TroutFishingUSA, 4 Oct 2012 @ 3:41pm

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Anyway, release album, go on tour for 6 - 12 months, take a breather, and then pen a new album, rehearse it, record it, master it, get artwork, design, whatever else you need... 24 months slipped by.

Not to mention that a lot (read: most) musicians also have to find day jobs and work full time outside of music when they're not touring these days. Even those with record deals. Especially those with indie record deals. I was surprised to learn that Frank Black of the Pixies still works in shipping and receiving in his "off" time from music (or did, as recently as four years ago. Maybe the reunion has put him in a better place).
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Karl (profile), 5 Oct 2012 @ 12:09am

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Not to mention that a lot (read: most) musicians also have to find day jobs and work full time outside of music when they're not touring these days. Even those with record deals.

Whether fortunately or unfortunately, this has always been the case. Almost nobody on a label made money from recorded music; they always made money from touring.

Even the highest-grossing artists in the world always made more money from touring than they ever did from recorded music royalties. For example, the highest-grossing musical artist in 2004 was Paul McCartney. How much of his music-related income was due to royalties from recorded music? Less than 15%. And that was pretty typical at the time - of the top 35 earning musicians, two made the majority of their money from royalties off of recorded music. (And those were also producers of other artists' albums.)

If you view copyright as a way for artists to actually gain income, then copyright has always been a complete failure.
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 5 Oct 2012 @ 12:26pm

Epic fail!
n/t.
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