Human Rights Group Deploys An 'Empathy Test' Captcha System To Help Sites Fend Off Trolls
from the because-i-love-being-talked-down-to-by-a-dialog-box dept
Fact: if you have a site with any amount of traffic and open comment threads, you're going to draw trolls. There's no method that's been proven to completely rid your site of trolls, though not for a lack of trying. (This one is particularly mischevious.) Various sites have tried anything from aggressive moderation to requiring Facebook logins... all to no avail. (Although the latter method has proven that certain people are more than willing to troll without the protection of anonymity.)A new anti-troll tool from a rather unlikely source has just been unveiled, one that hopes to combine the "fun" of solving captchas with something akin to a "blush response:"
A human rights group is introducing a new take on CAPTCHAs, those little boxes that make you type in a word to prove you are human before you can comment or register for a site. Their version doesn’t just present a scrambled word to be deciphered, but instead forces a person to choose the right word to unscramble based on the proper emotional response to a human rights violation.That's right. It's Voight-Kampff for comment threads. Instead of trying to parse a set of badly scanned words and Street View cam house numbers, Civil Rights CAPTCHA instead asks you how you feel about certain horrific situations, hoping that you'll make the "right" decision before spewing your vitriol and ignorance into the now-unlocked comment box.
Civil Rights Defenders, the Swedish-based group that developed the tool, hopes the Civil Rights Captcha will help sites block spiders and bots, while letting humans in — and hopefully educating the humans at the same time...
But perhaps forcing a troll to repeatedly choose an empathetic response will, over time, soothe the ravages of comment sections around the net. Okay, that might also be asking too much, but at the very least spreading information about human rights abuses certainly can’t hurt, even if the jerks of the internet (see, for example, YouTube comments) remain beyond help.
While its heart is certainly in the right place, the implementation still requires captchas, something most users would rather not encounter every time they make a comment. (Yes, I know. But sometimes, decent , non-trolling humans don't want to "create an account" or "enter an email address" in order to participate.) On top of that is the fact that each captcha has only one "right" answer, making the system more than a little heavy-handed in its moralizing. This assumes that your regular, non-troll commenters are going to be fine with being preached at while jumping through hoops. It also assumes that all dedicated trolls are morons incapable of deducing the (obviously) "right" reaction to each situation presented.
This particular captcha service might prove useful in limited situations, like being pre-loaded with questions related to a particular cause or event being discussed/promoted at the website deploying it. It also might prove popular with the sort of people who are willing to annoy a certain percentage of their community in order to "raise awareness." It will become a form of penance for those involved, much like forwarding "concerned" emails and switching Facebook statuses to show support. You know, the sort of thing that will morph into "I solved Captchas for world peace. What will YOU do?" t-shirts popping up on Cafepress.
I can't see this solving the troll problem, but I can see it annoying most of a user base, leaving the site deploying it with a smaller audience consisting of people who like being moralized at frequently. Like any other captcha, the spambots and trolls will find a way around it, with the only ones affected being decent human beings, which would seem to be the sort of "demographic" you'd want to annoy less. Pushing them through a "think our way or hit the road" filtering system doesn't make trolls any less prevalent or make non-decent human beings any more "decent."
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if site operators want to solve a troll problem, they need to look at themselves. Trolls are usually a sign that your own positions are a little too extreme and borderline trollish in the other direction.
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Tell me more about how you brought world peace.
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Empathy, Shmempathy
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Techdirt also gives an example of behavior that attracts trolls: The masses try to police it, and in doing so, engage in aggressive troll-like activities of their own. In order to protect and support their extreme positions, people get very nasty towards anyone who doesn't agree.
The result is troll wars / flame wars.
My thought is that if you are attracting a lot of trolls, you might want to look at your stands to see if in fact you are way off the mark.
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Now, I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt at first, and letting their actions shape my perception of them, but to try and paint trolling as some noble counter reaction to injustice or extreme positions... that wouldn't even begin to make sense in the twilight zone, and it certainly has nothing to do with reality here.
Let me try and make this as clear as I can: Trolls Are Children. Physical age is immaterial here, mental and emotional maturity is all that counts, and trolls regularly and consistently display a mental/emotional maturity that one would expect to find in an adolescent.
They throw fits when contradicted, often going on a personal attack against the person/people that contradicted them, their 'arguments' are almost always emotional based rather than based on logic, they throw out swear words left and right in an attempt to look 'adult', and their actions seem to be, for the most part, an attempt to either a) get someone to pay attention to them by any means necessary, or b) cause as much strife as possible in some sad attempt to make themselves feel powerful.
None of this, needless to say, is in any way shape or form mature, adult, or rational, hence the categorization of trolls as, for all intents and purposes, children. Children who are able to use a computer, and type out (sometimes) readable messages/posts true, but children nonetheless.
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You're merely trying to justify the blatantly stupid or ignorant posts here made by a few topic derailers who frequent the site.
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No matter what you do on the internet, if you get popular, expect trolls. We shouldn't have to make compromises for them.
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According to the book the idea was taken from, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?", By Philip K. Dick. If you are paranoid schizophrenic, you would fail Voit Kamph.
Well looks like I have a bit if reading to do, thanks TechDirt :-)
And don't forget to fill your empathy box if you practice Mercerism :-)
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Fails as a Captcha; works as marketing
This is already available for marketing:
http://adage.com/article/digital/digital-marketing-security-tech-captchas-advertising/14 5986/
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We could use webcams to watch for eye dialation and use a blood pressure cuff attached to a USB cable to watch the blood pressure go up.
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I am sure that God Hates Fags gets some serious trolling, where as a "fish are friends, not food" board might get little.
Further, the more extreme your views, the more that normal views seem like trolling.
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To give an example, it would be easier to get a successful troll by wandering onto a pro-Westboro forum and making extremist pro-gay statements, but you could still get a reaction from a completely moderate or even gay-friendly Christian site. Some would prefer doing that, since it's more of a challenge to get a reaction. I've seen many discussions on science derailed by fundamentalist religious types, as another example - the site itself may be for moderate discussion on scientific data, but an extremist troll comes in and attacks science itself with distorted biblical "facts"? That may get bites.
"Further, the more extreme your views, the more that normal views seem like trolling."
Which doesn't explain the trolls here, of course, since most discussions are relatively moderate before they show up. Most of those idiots seem to assume that people here hold extreme views that they've never held or stated, and often make personal attacks against posters. Hence the fact that a moderate discussion about a business model or the benefits of copyright reform is too often derailed by people who start accusing everybody agreeing with one side as being pirates or thieves, or part of some grand conspiracy headed by Google. Don't mistake the defences people make against these morons for extremism.
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Trolls are nothing like they used to be, in fact the art of trolling is sadly dying.
Basically trolls are needed to keep communities from growing stagnant though there is a wide difference between trolls and high end harrassment/threatening behaviour. One can be controlled and if done properly can even lead to the trolls becoming a relevant and much needed part of any online community. The other is illegal and should be stopped instantly with all resources at the communities disposal. And before the "cyber" brigade starts waffling on about 'cyber law' needed IT HAS ALWAYS been illegal offline and online.
Though your emphasis in the last few posts about 'extreme views' is intriguing since 'extreme' is very ambiguous and quite biased dependant on viewpoint, and I'd say that then one persons troll is another persons critic. Who decides?
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Citation required!
Troll-lol-lol-lol-lol ;) *runs*
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Damn anyone who can stay calm whilst truing to figure out if * is that an S or a 5?
* is that a l or a 1?
* do I have to write both words in lower/upper/proper case?
and then not throw keyboards at the screen and rage to the heavens is EXACTLY the type of person who will bring about world peace.
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oh what were you saying again... shiny!
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The trolls just congratulate themselves every time a site ratchets up the bans and the captchas and such.
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Tell me more about how you brought world peace.
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One of the biggest mistakes that can be made is assuming that one's views are moderate. They always seem moderate to ourselves, but are they truly that?
Abolish patents, abolish copyright, embrace piracy, support free speech, free Kim Dotcom, f--k the **aas... I dunno, doesn't seem very moderate to me.
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Yes, the fictional version of the site you just attacked does seem rather extreme. What does that have to do with the real one?
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remember that the UN said internet access is a human right........not food, not clean water, medical care, no no the internet
the beauty of morals is they are normally based on human science fiction writers....you know fantasy books
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Tim is working on a redesign of the site, and one of the things discussed is a troll button. Alas, we get posts about trolls. Perhaps a test to see how people react, to decide what to try to do about trolls.
This of course means that the Techdirt crew doesn't understand the value of an opposing view.
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You do not support free speech?
Don't worry, you're not alone: According to June 2012 poll by the First Amendment Center, about 13% of Americans believe that the First Amendment "goes too far".
And when it gets down to specifics, even more Americans do not support free speech.
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Whatever. The point is that even if such views have been promoted in posts here and there, there are plenty of opposing views present in the comments that aren't trolls. There's plenty of room for debate, and most people are capable of discussing any subject without going off the deep end one way or another.
I certainly don't hold any of the views you listed apart from the support of free speech. It's possible to engage me in conversation about any of those and you'll get a nuanced reply open to discussion about the issues - you will find that my *actual* positions on most of these subjects are quite moderate, unlike the fictions often ascribed to me. Unless, of course, you start trolling and blatantly lie or attack me as a pirate, or the many other tactics people use to troll, in which case you've already signalled you're not interested in factual adult discussion.
Therefore, the site is not "extremist", even if some commenters and/or authors can appear so at times (and in which cases you'd do well to look at what the opposing argument is. For example, if it's an article about someone in political power claiming that anyone who questions the RIAA's lies is a thief who needs to sit down and accept any laws that are passed, no matter how damaging - damn right you're going to get a more "extremist" reaction as there's no middle ground).
If you find differently, and you're not deliberately trolling, I'd look to see why you get the reaction you do. Most discussions don't enter the "extremist" level until people start having to defend against lies and trolls.
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Tell me more about how you brought world peace.
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The reason you have trolls in the internet is because of this:
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20060323
Anything that becomes popular immediately sucks, and that's why you have trolls. Envy is one of humanities biggest and ugliest traits.
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Still, they provide both good laughs and fertile grounds for some quite good replies from other users so I'll risk a statement here: Trolls in a moderate amount actually help enrich a community even though they themselves won't get anything valuable from the community because they aren't willing to.
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wait? what? they only want to let people who share the same opinion join the discussion?
-
- I agree
- we should do that!
- agreed nr 2
- that's a great idea ... we could also do this as extra
- yeah let's do both ideas
- agreed nr3
You end up with a circle jerk session, where critical people are automatically excluded.
But it's also going to exclude people with asperger syndrome, autism spectrum, ...
The principle of this is unacceptable both on debate level (exclude critical & negative opinions) as human rights level (exclusion of empathically disabled people).
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You're like someone wearing Jordache jeans making fun of someone wearing a Polo shirt. You probably think The Gap is still cool.
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Second, you've been proven wrong repeatedly regarding opposing views. They are valuable and have been discussed here not only in the articles but also in the comments. Sometimes they provide points of view that had not been noticed before them and other times they provide good points to be discussed in details and debunked.
Try harder.
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That said, I would be one to abandon that site (and in fact I just dismissed the sudden curiosity I had about the site after I read about the captcha system). Even if it is easier to read it is much more annoying. So yes, excellent way to drive all users away.
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Let's see, reading comprehension and debate class 1:
"most I definitely disagree with"
Notice the word "most"? That means not all, as in there is at least one that I do agree with. I agree with free speech, and I haven't said anything about not supporting it. Yet another example of someone questioning a belief I don't hold...
For lesson 2, look at my profile and see how American I am, then ask yourself how relevant your reply to me was.
For lesson 3, try not cherry-picking a single point and only addressing that one? Do you have any questions about my character based on the other views I apparently rejected or do you only pick easy targets?
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Trolls are after one thing... Attention! They often espouse a position, not because they actually believe it, but because they know it will elicit a response - any response - from others, it gives them a feeling of power.
Hence on many of the sites there are warnings... "Don't feed the trolls".
Trolls are the 'grown up' (in age) teenagers that always have to be the center of attention or at least control the flow of a conversation.
A classic example of a troll that meets this definition goes by the handle of 'fartface' on the site HackaDay.
A true troll does not post because they have a differing opinion (though they may), they post because they know they will get people to react.
So, it bears repeating "Don't Feed the Trolls!", just ignore them. If everyone does that eventually, they will go away because they don't get a response.
Differing opinions are a good thing (I think). I don't visit a site to be part of a circle jerk. I welcome informed, or genuine debate and differing opinions on most any subject. A differing view is not necessarily a troll.
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Conservapedia
That site has humans (which should be even stronger than a CAPTCHA) trying to find out whether new users agree with their brand of morality.
Even then, the ones who troll that site (called "parodists") are able to bypass any attempt to prevent them from editing.
But as the attempts to prevent parodists get more extreme, more legitimate editors are caught in the net. In the end, other than a very small core of editors, there are only parodists on that site.
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Hah-- everyone around here is a troll then
If you measured the empathy factor of people here, most would fail.
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This explains a lot.
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The sky is not blue. It is mostly transparent. The blue (or reds and oranges at sunset) are caused by the diffraction of different wavelengths of light that hit the atmosphere.
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Congrats on sinking a good discussion with adhoms and personal attacks.
"Therefore, the site is not "extremist""
yes, in the view of people who agree with you, it's no extremist. the KKK site isn't extreme to the members of the group either!
You made one mistake - you took things that are examples of what is GENERALLY said on this board, and though I applied them to your personally, I did not. your response is to act like a troll.
Congrats, you sank a good discussion by being an idiot.
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How about a system that uses existing DMCA notices and asks for a common sense appraisal of whether the notice is legitimate when fair use and other defenses are considered.
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Erm, please point out where that was either. I merely commented on the fact that you ducked the request to provide evidence for your own claims, and provided examples of why I think you're mistaken. If you consider polite, moderately phrased counterpoints left open for debate to be personal attacks, you may have problems.
(In case you're confused, I used the royal "you" in those paragraphs. I wasn't referring to you personally, unless you do admit you are trolling in which case why are you complaining?)
"yes, in the view of people who agree with you, it's no extremist. the KKK site isn't extreme to the members of the group either!"
Please explain, with evidence, how the positions generally stated on this site are extremist. Difficulty: it has to be reality, not the fiction you tried pushing above, and must be a generally identifiable theme rather than offhanded comments by ACs or comments made in response to personal attacks. You're making the claim, you prove it.
"I did not. your response is to act like a troll."
Nonsense. I clarified my position and that of the site politely. My only criticism was of those who troll - such as by pushing the lies about the sites position you stated above. Your response is the troll, I'm afraid, if any is to be seen here. The rest of us are interested in the type of honest discussion that usually takes place before the trolls arrive.
"Congrats, you sank a good discussion by being an idiot."
Ah, now THAT'S a personal ad hom attack, congrats.
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First question:
You're in the middle of the dessert and you see a tortoise on its back. You do nothing knowing it will die soon in the hot sun.
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/Sorry, spelling Nazi mode off, feeling pedantic ;)
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The zeitgeist dictates that moral are subjective in themselves...
Is obviously going to be subjective based on the type of blog it appears on.
What it actually may end up doing is take the debate out of the comments entirely and into the captchas - where one side will not get heard - it will be an echo chamber - like reading BoingBoing comments.
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one man's troll...
*NOT* that there are not 'pure' trolls, but -more often than not- they are people who disagree vehemently, nothing wrong with that; in fact, that is what is 'right' with the openness of the inertnets...
as an aside (as others like ninja have commented on), i absolutely HATE crapcha; i have corrected vision, i can figure out puzzles better than most nekkid apes, yet i am CONSTANTLY stymied by retarded crapchas that are unreadable by man or machine...
*THAT* alone has stopped me from posting, visiting, or even buying crap from websites... when you go through 3-4-5 stupid fucking crapchas that are unreadable, i'm ready to strangle whoever invented the 'system'...
i had signed on with disqus some time ago thinking that *finally* we have a universal type of system where i don't have to sign up or get an 'account' or whatever, for a million web sites (slight exaggeration), but -instead of becoming a standard accepted 'everywhere'- i now have to sign up for a handful of *other* similar 'universal' services (plus farcebook, FOAD, zuck) in order to cover my bases...
pretty much sucks...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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Modern Christian application
http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af32/SupremeAsshole/Pearly5c.jpg
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Re: one man's troll...
I was sort of hoping OpenID would take off, so I could just use it with my Google account, but even that seems to have fallen by the wayside. In fact, the only time I use OpenID to login, with my Google account, is to one site where you can sell/purchase Android phones (with guaranteed clean ESNs). But I do like that site and the fact that feedback assures you you'll be dealing with reputable people.
Beyond that, to hell with "universal" commenting systems.
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It's meaningless to try to have a level headed discussion with you, your every reply is in fact a troll.
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;^)
and perhaps even giving me a chuckle for the day.
My question is why didn't you take on the sun rising in the east?
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Reading Comprehension
This is an anti-ROBOT captcha, just like the regular captcha. You just have to guess the right word, which robots are less likely to do. The troll comment is a silly aside, not the point of the captcha.
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If you'd been paying attention to the Insider chat, there has been very clear opposition against a troll button, more so than support for it.
See, now this is blatant trolling. Claiming that there's something when in fact there isn't, and digging one's heels in when being proved otherwise.
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What a dreadful, extremist message, not to mention communist and pirate apologist! No wonder there's trolls in this site, attacking this so called "free speech" anarchist agenda.
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Yeah, First-Name-Basis TAMMY is not trolling at all.
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Want some whirled peas?
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Paul took a perfectly good discussion, took general things personally (feels guilty, I suspect) and got all uppity about it.
Fuck him. He's an idiot, and you appear to be his butt buddy. It's guys like you and Paul making it very hard to have an open and free flowing discussion around here.
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Too bad other sites don't work like this. "Well some do but not near enough."
That's why I'll always
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Wow... Compare what I have said (what was angry about it, exactly?) with the following:
"Fuck him. He's an idiot, and you appear to be his butt buddy."
If one of us is an immature angry troll, I would suggest you look into a mirror. If you consider any of my comments extremist compared to what you, yourself, have written - which includes wild misrepresentations of this site's positions and those of its regular commenters - then you really need to look into a mirror.
What a shame that so many comment threads get derailed by people who can't even address the reality of the very comments they're replying to and have to attack such silly strawmen instead. At least the evidence is still here for anyone who is capable of addressing reality. The lack of an edit/delete button is helpful for when these people try to lie again in the next thread, even if it's annoying when you want to correct a genuine error.
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It's not easy to have a different opinion here.
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Stop being so mortally offended by everything, stop thinking the world is all about you, and perhaps you might get somewhere. For now, you are just an idiot troll who is on the "right side" where, so you get support for people equally as silly and self important as you.
Go back and read the whole thread. Where did it go off track? When you took something personally that wasn't at all about you personally.
The shit starts with you. It ends with you. It's you.
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Lots of people post different opinions here yet they don't get reported. I wonder if you're capable of understanding why that is?
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What the hell are you blathering on about? Which post are you referring to? Was it when I took exception to your complete misrepresentation of this site's content and asked you to explain where you got that from? That was all it took to set you off?
I politely asked you to explain your comments, you first refused, then you started screaming and swearing like a child. That's really not my fault. But it does prove the point that this thread started with - some people are idiot trolls and they will attack anything no matter how moderate the actual content.
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"Paul shot first! I'm an innocent victim! You're all the bad guys who insult others and attack with ad-hominems! Also you're all butt-buddies and ghey!"
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