Digital River Loses Patent Suit Despite Doing What Was In The Patent Two Years Before Patent Was Filed

from the broken-system dept

Last week a jury in the federal district court in Marshall, Texas (patent trolls' favorite court) gave a ruling that was a clear miscarriage of justice -- and this is a case where I actually know quite a lot about the details and have firsthand knowledge that the patents are 100% bogus. The case involves a patent troll called DDR, which was built out of the ashes of a failed dotcom called Nexchange, which tried to build affiliate style stores that could be embedded in other websites, with their look and feel. DDR sued a few companies, including Expedia, Travelocity, Orbitz, Digital River and World Travel Holdings. Everyone but Digital River and World Travel Holdings settled. The main company here is Digital River -- and the key patent, 6,993,572 is ridiculous and never should have been granted. Even Nexchange admitted it wasn't doing anything new -- though it insists it was the first to do it "on the internet."

It wasn't.

Digital River pointed out that it had been doing the same thing since its founding more than two years before Nexchange filed for its patents. I can confirm this first hand. In June of 1998, I started working for a company called Release Software. Our main competitor? Digital River. We were always up against each other in trying to do deals to build exactly these kinds of stores. In fact, by the time I started (months before these patents were filed), Release was already supplying "store within a site" offerings to a number of sites, including Egghead (remember them?), Canadian electronics giant Futureshop, and had also done download "kiosk" sites for software companies like Adobe and Intuit -- all of which were designed to match the look and feel of the original site exactly.

DDR's response to the claims that Digital River was doing it first was that they did it badly, so it didn't count. Seriously. From the Joe Mullin article linked above:
When DDR lawyers got their chance to cross-examine Pichler, they flipped through many of the same webpages, then talked about differences between the host pages and the store pages that Digital River served up. For example, on the Digital Frontier website, the store page was missing the navigation bar present on the main Digital Frontier site.

Pichler admitted that some of the pages looked different. “Our goal was to replicate the look and feel of the website,” but each client had its own peculiarities, and some stores matched their hosts better than others.
To some extent, this is true. Digital River was bad at matching the look and feel of clients. But we weren't. In fact, I remember that was part of our sales pitch to beat Digital River on deals. When we built the stores, they really matched the look and feel. Shoppers on Egghead had no idea that they'd really left Egghead's main site to enter our site, for example. Even so, I'm not sure that any of this matters. Release clearly was doing what DDR now claims Nexchange "invented" (well after we had been doing it). And, even given all that, does anyone think it's reasonable to claim that the only reason Digital River couldn't "match the look and feel" was because of some great "invention" of "matching the look and feel" in the patent? That's insanity.

But, this is East Texas... where insanity rules. On Friday, the jury ruled in favor of DDR, saying that the patents were valid and infringed upon by Digital River (and WTH). It ordered both companies to pay $750,000 each, which is much less than what DDR was asking for but is still ridiculous. What the patent explains was not in any way "new" in September of 1998. I was already working on new deals to provide the same thing months prior, and the company I worked for already had numerous deals where we exactly matched look and feel.

Either way, just the idea that anyone could get a patent on the idea of integrating an e-commerce store into another site is pretty ridiculous. As far as I know, when we were at Release, we didn't even bother filing for such patents, because, seriously, who would patent something so damn obvious?

Finally, this once again highlights the difference between an idea and actually executing in the market. As Mullin highlights, even if it was true that Digital River didn't match the look and feel exactly, the company thrived and is still in business, making over $300 million last year. Nexchange completely flopped. So if matching look and feel exactly was so important... then shouldn't Nexchange have thrived? Hell, shouldn't the company I worked for have thrived as well? It didn't. It flopped, too. Digital River beat us silly, because while we were focused on silly things like matching the look and feel exactly, it was focused on what customers at the time actually wanted: more things to sell and better tools to manage the store. We couldn't keep up with their platform (or their ability to source products) and Release eventually shut down. As for Nexchange -- I never heard of them, and I was in charge of keeping our competitive matrix up to date with all of our competitors. If they were in the same market, they sure didn't make a splash.

Execution in the market is what matters. Digital River did it. Nexchange did not. The only thing this ruling has done is to punish the company that actually executed by making them give money to the guys who completely failed in the market. It goes against everything that we, as a society, should be encouraging. It's taking money from the successful companies to give it to the ones who failed.
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Filed Under: history, look and feel, patents, prior art, stores
Companies: digital river, nexchange, release software


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  1. icon
    Nom du Clavier (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 4:03am

    No lawsuit needed

    If the goal is to recoup some investment from a failed company:

    1) Companies are people
    2) Take out life insurance on company
    3) Company fails
    4) ???
    5) Profit

    It'll be a thing.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  2. icon
    Ninja (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 5:18am

    Yet another example of why not to do business in the US, right?

    I'm starting to think our trolls are all from East Texas...

    link to this | view in thread ]

  3. icon
    Richard (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 5:37am

    Re:

    When the Chinese economy becomes bigger than the US (only a few years away now) it really won't matter if you ignore the US.

    Already Eu>US

    and

    EU+China+Japan+India+Russia+Canada+Brazil+Australia+Korea~3*US

    link to this | view in thread ]

  4. icon
    Zakida Paul (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 5:44am

    Overreaching patent laws and trolling lawsuits are America's only great exports these days.

    And Romney thinks Britain makes nothing that the world wants.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  5. identicon
    Wade, 16 Oct 2012 @ 5:45am

    Why east Texas

    How did east Texas become a patent troll's wet dream?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  6. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 5:45am

    just out of spite, an appeal should be filed. see if the Appeals Court can make as equally as ridiculous a judgement. what's the betting they can??

    link to this | view in thread ]

  7. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 5:53am

    Other East Texas News

    Meanwhile, in other East Texas news...

    Back in August, the ACLU obtained a settlement which shut down the infamous highway robbery gang operating out of the East Texas town of Tenaha.

    Settlement Means No More Highway Robbery in Tenaha, Texas” by Elora Mukherjee, ACLU Blog of Rights, August 2012
    On Friday [August 3], the ACLU settled a class action lawsuit, pending court approval, against officials in the East Texas town of Tenaha and Shelby County over the rampant practice of stopping and searching drivers, almost always Black or Latino, and often seizing their cash and other valuable property. The money seized by officers during these stops went directly into department coffers. It was highway robbery, targeting those who could least afford to challenge the officers’ abuse of power, under the guise of a so-called “drug interdiction” program and made possible by Texas’s permissive civil asset forfeiture laws.

    Hundreds, if not more than a thousand, people have been stopped under the interdiction program. From 2006 to 2008, police seized approximately $3 million from at least 140 people as part of the program. None of the ACLU’s clients were ever arrested or charged with a crime after being stopped and shaken down.

    [...more...]


    Maybe there's some hope of shutting down the gang in Marshall? Cleaning up East Texas a little more?

    Or is East Texas really just hopeless...

    link to this | view in thread ]

  8. identicon
    Beech, 16 Oct 2012 @ 6:10am

    Re: Why east Texas

    An excellent question. I would bet it has something to do with it being all "Old Westy." Probably no one there owns a computer, so any patent of "something that exists 'ON THE INTERNET'" is automatically seen as incomprehensibly brand new, and probably a little bit witch craft. I bet that it is a lot harder to win a patent case of "something something on a horse" or "something something on a cows udders" in East Texas

    The solution is to move some tech start ups down there. Make East Texas the new Silicon Valley. With all the new tech jobs, people who are less yokel and more educated about the new-fangled computer magic will move into town, thus adding people who actually know about tech patents to the jury pool there.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  9. icon
    Mike42 (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 6:11am

    This sounds like a case that could go somewhere. If an appeals court took it seriously, this judge may actually have to change the way he runs his court.

    He sticks out like a loose nail. Someone needs to smack him back in place.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  10. icon
    Greevar (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 6:14am

    Kill the trolls.

    I hear fire stops them from regenerating health. Er um, I mean KILL IT WITH FIRE!

    link to this | view in thread ]

  11. icon
    gorehound (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 6:24am

    Is it time for setting up your Business overseas in a Nation that won't sue you into oblivion and really wants you to be there and innovate ?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  12. This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it
    identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:13am

    so basically, you are crying, cause you didn't patent something you should have.........

    link to this | view in thread ]

  13. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:17am

    Every time I want to laugh I come to this site.
    Just counting the days until US implode into its own poison.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  14. icon
    Ninja (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:17am

    Re: Re: Why east Texas

    I bet that it is a lot harder to win a patent case of "something something on a horse" or "something something on a cows udders" in East Texas

    Not if you say "something something on a horse on the internet" or "something something on a cows udders on the internet". It would promptly get your patents granted. I do have my doubts on how cow udders would fit on the internet but I can't help but to think that it will fit Rule 34...

    link to this | view in thread ]

  15. icon
    Chargone (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:18am

    Re:

    as Kim Dotcom can attest: that doesn't always help as much as it should.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  16. icon
    Ninja (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:19am

    Re:

    So basically you are missing the point yet again. You are good at it aren't you?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  17. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:21am

    Re: Re: Why east Texas

    Supporting evidence: The court's computer is a Mac 6500, (1997!)

    link to this | view in thread ]

  18. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:23am

    Re:

    So, what you are saying is that the patent system is a "filers keepers, losers weepers" system?

    I guess you are right. That whole "prior art" thing has "bureaucratic overhead" written all over it. No need for that.

    Hey! Maybe next time we can get rid of fair use too.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  19. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:25am

    I don't understand how any court or jury could rule this way, given that the patent post-dates actual companies doing what the patent covers by several years.

    I mean, it's like holding a trump card. It's so obvious, so why was this ignored?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  20. icon
    Zakida Paul (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:26am

    Re: Re:

    "So, what you are saying is that the patent system is a "filers keepers, losers weepers" system?"

    That does appear to be exactly what he is saying which means he has inadvertently proven the point that the patent system is broken.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  21. icon
    Rick Smith (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:31am

    This story gave me two thoughts...

    First (and sorry to all of you Big Government haters out there) is that all patent cases need to be handled by a special court that only deals in patent cases. This would be located in only one physical location. The jury, if one is involved, should be comprised of people who have knowledge of the industry in which the patent was issued for. In other words, using the above case as an example, the jury members must have some working knowledge of software development and/or website design. Since no matter where you would physically locate the court you would never have a large enough pool of people for the jury, make the jury pool the entire United States. The jury selection can be done remotely (maybe a teleconference video system at the local level to allow them to participate in jury selection). The cost of travel, lodging, etc. of the jury is by default assigned to the plaintiff and is taken out of any awards (or becomes a bill if they lose). What you get with this type of system is that 1) you get a judge that understands patents and jury that should understand the industry, 2) you increase the cost to file, hopefully raising the bar and weeding out the patient trolls on the little claims.

    The second thought I had when reading this, is that it’s a shame that the patient office cannot be sued directly over ridiculous patents. There needs to be away to independently have patents revoked and to effect the work records of the people involved in granting questionable patients. And if an individual has too many losing judgments against them, then they should be subject to termination. It can work like the calling out sick point system that a lot of companies use. You can only have so many points before actions are taken. Point fall off after so long, so this would really only effect people that are intentionally issuing bad questionable patents or those that are truly just bad at the job; the patent office really doesn't need either of type working for it.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  22. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:39am

    Re:

    I wouldn't be laughing too hard, the US is doing everything it can to take as many other countries out with the very same things that's destroying it.

    If and/or when it goes, it most certainly won't be going alone.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  23. icon
    Vincent Clement (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:40am

    Re: Other East Texas News

    Texas is hopeless. End of story.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  24. icon
    Baldaur Regis (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:42am

    Let me get this straight.

    So when our company signed up with Digital River in 1997, we were actually pirating software from the future?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  25. icon
    Trails (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:45am

    Re:

    Yes exactly.

    I am crying because I didn't patent something I should have

    - Michael Masnick, Shattered Dreams & Broken Butterfly Wings: Things That Make Me Cry, © 2007 HarperCollins Publishers, Ltd.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  26. icon
    Vincent Clement (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:52am

    Re:

    It's in the financial interest of residents of Marshall to ensure that juries rule in favour of patent trolls.

    More lawsuits means more judges and clerks. More lawsuits means more office space being leased to patent companies. More lawsuits means the need for more jurors (who receive compensation for their time). More lawsuits means more out-of-town lawyers at your local hotels. More lawsuits means more meals and catering from local restaurants. And so on.

    To insert logic into this would destroy an entire industry.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  27. icon
    Vincent Clement (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:55am

    Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    First, the US should abolish all software and business process patents. That would eliminate the overwhelming majority of patent trolls and patent lawsuits.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  28. icon
    Baldaur Regis (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 7:58am

    Re: Re:

    Mega (a Hong Kong corp) contracted to use US-based servers; in FantasyLand, DC that's enough to shut them down. Next up: the US claims jurisdiction over any English-speaking website....

    link to this | view in thread ]

  29. identicon
    Scott, 16 Oct 2012 @ 8:15am

    Re: Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    Ditto

    link to this | view in thread ]

  30. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 8:17am

    Re: Re: Re:

    I think they might have a problem with the UK if they did that.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  31. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 8:22am

    Re: Re:

    It's going to screw everyone over, since most international trade is done using those worthless pieces of green paper they keep printing more of.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  32. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 8:25am

    Re: Re: Other East Texas News

    Hey, come on now, Texas is NOT hopeless. East Texas is hopeless, there's a difference. But I might just be saying that as a Texan, a SOUTH Texan at that.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  33. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 8:33am

    They must be appealing this ruling?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  34. icon
    Berenerd (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 8:33am

    Waitwaitwait...hold on just a fracking second...

    How many bridges are in East Texas any how?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  35. identicon
    Michael, 16 Oct 2012 @ 8:42am

    Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    "all patent cases need to be handled by a special court that only deals in patent cases"

    Unfortunately, CAFC is a prime example of why what you are suggesting is a bad idea. They have clearly lost perspective and have a reason to make patents more powerful. If a court only dealt with patent litigation, any rulings that diminished the value or power of the patent system would effectively diminish the power of the court itself - and who wants to make themselves less important?

    The opposite of what you are suggesting would result in more judicious results - take all litigation and spread it out as evenly across all courts equally. The only reason for local jurisdiction of court cases is to make the courtroom more accessible. If it were possible to have virtual courtrooms, spreading out the cases to give each court a relatively even exposure to all kinds of subjects would likely lead to more important (or at least more interesting) cases getting more courtroom attention.

    As far as the jury members having more direct knowledge - I'm not sure if that would help either. People have bias. I remember a recent article talking about a juror (I think Apple / Samsung related) saying he was heavily influenced by the thinking that he would be angry if someone had "stolen" his idea.

    As far as patents - particularly software patents are concerned, fixing their litigation is treating a symptom. We need to fix the patent system problem, or cut off an arm or something.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  36. identicon
    llortamai, 16 Oct 2012 @ 8:58am

    Re: Re: Why east Texas

    As the duly appointed East Texas Ambassador to Techdirt (I live in Tyler), I feel the need to weigh in on this post.

    I would bet it has something to do with it being all "Old Westy."


    We are not "Old Westy". We are happy with our standard of living and don't need things like 'licktricity and 'puters in the houses of regular folk.

    Probably no one there owns a computer, so any patent of "something that exists 'ON THE INTERNET'" is automatically seen as incomprehensibly brand new, and probably a little bit witch craft.


    Untrue! We all get to access the interwebs by goin' on up to the libary. They have readin' books, interwebs, whiskey jugs, and other things that are of no consequence here. Plus there's no such thing as witchcraft. Everyone knows Jesus invented the interwebs and the 'puter. Since that is the case and we're all God fearing folk, we believe that whoever got patents on interweb stuff must be a follower of God and must, therefore, be right and deserves money. Since they get money, they tithe it to the church and the church makes money. It's all part of God's plan and you're probably too city-stupid to understand it.

    I bet that it is a lot harder to win a patent case of "something something on a horse" or "something something on a cows udders" in East Texas


    'Lectronic milkin' machines are all the rage here now, and they had patent protection (One of the earliest ones had that protection in 1907!). They go on cow's udders. U.S. Patent 481,271 deals with horseshoes. Horseshoes go on horses. They had patent protection at one time as well. There goes your whole argument.

    The solution is to move some tech start ups down there. Make East Texas the new Silicon Valley. With all the new tech jobs, people who are less yokel and more educated about the new-fangled computer magic will move into town, thus adding people who actually know about tech patents to the jury pool there.


    We don't need none of you city folk comin' here and ruinin' our way of life!

    link to this | view in thread ]

  37. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 9:02am

    Re: Re:

    To insert logic into this would destroy an entire industry.


    The only damned business in the whole town that isn't run down yet.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  38. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 9:29am

    Re: Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    And it should be done asap to avoid an even bigger IP-bubble burst when the illusion has grown even more.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  39. icon
    ltlw0lf (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 9:51am

    Re: No lawsuit needed

    If the goal is to recoup some investment from a failed company

    Wow, I was trying to think of a worse investment for the insurance companies after homeowner default insurance and I was having a hard time. And there you go, coming up with a worse investment. Now if they would just offer that insurance for restaurants, we could destroy the economy entirely.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  40. identicon
    Lord Binky, 16 Oct 2012 @ 9:52am

    I'm glad my lawn mower has a unique 'look and feel' AH! no! there are other ones? NOOOOOOOOoooo..

    At least I have a unique look and feel of this knife, it has a handle and a blade and NOT AGAIN ARG!!!!

    But I guess it's ok with software.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  41. icon
    Argonel (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 9:53am

    Re: Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    A simpler solution might to be go back to having a requirement of providing a working model. Not a document the "describes" how something theoretically works but an actual working device or program. I'm not sure if the requirement should be on filing or simply be a requirement for beginning litigation. either way it make patents a protection for inventions, not ideas that might eventually become an invention after the problems are worked out. It also greatly limits but does not eliminate non-practicing entities (patent trolls) as they just need someone to be using the invention somewhere so they can bring the working model to court, they don't have to produce it themselves. However whoever is producing it may be vulnerable to counter suits which makes loaning it to a NPE much less attractive.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  42. identicon
    Dave Xanatos, 16 Oct 2012 @ 9:56am

    [this space intentionally left blank]

    so basically, you are crying, cause you didn't patent something you should have.........

    Exactly! In fact, why bother creating anything at all! If you look around, there's all kinds of things already out there that you could get a patent on.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  43. icon
    Laroquod (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 9:58am

    I've half a mind to release all of the software I have coded for personal use into the public domain anonymously. If a bunch of anonymous programmers were to start a free open source project... who are they gonna sue for patent infringement?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  44. icon
    ltlw0lf (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 10:05am

    Re: Re: Re: Re:

    I think they might have a problem with the UK if they did that.

    Didn't seem to be much of a hindrance in New Zealand. They even provided the military muscle above and beyond what was reasonable, and they knew it wasn't a good idea before they did it.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  45. icon
    ltlw0lf (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 10:12am

    Re:

    who are they gonna sue for patent infringement?

    The users.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  46. icon
    Mike Masnick (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 10:56am

    Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    First (and sorry to all of you Big Government haters out there) is that all patent cases need to be handled by a special court that only deals in patent cases. This would be located in only one physical location.

    No, no, no, no, no. We have that (at the appellate level) and it does the exact opposite of what you want:

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121001/03314720555/rogue-court-that-made-patents-so-dest ructive.shtml

    The second thought I had when reading this, is that it’s a shame that the patient office cannot be sued directly over ridiculous patents. There needs to be away to independently have patents revoked and to effect the work records of the people involved in granting questionable patients. And if an individual has too many losing judgments against them, then they should be subject to termination. It can work like the calling out sick point system that a lot of companies use. You can only have so many points before actions are taken. Point fall off after so long, so this would really only effect people that are intentionally issuing bad questionable patents or those that are truly just bad at the job; the patent office really doesn't need either of type working for it.

    That, on the other hand... is an interesting suggestion...

    link to this | view in thread ]

  47. icon
    Atkray (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 11:05am

    Re: Re: Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    But that would be hard.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  48. icon
    DanZee (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 11:37am

    Testify

    Sounds like Mike should have volunteered to testify for Digital River.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  49. icon
    Nom du Clavier (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 11:46am

    Re: Re: No lawsuit needed

    I was being facetious, of course.

    But taking it somewhat seriously for a moment; as far as an insurance company goes, it doesn't have to be a losing proposition. Structure it like bonds that come due when the buyer's company goes under. Insurance company collects rent until then, as well as perhaps a service charge.

    The upside for whomever would buy into that could be releasing the funds only after bankruptcy proceedings have taken place. So then free from creditors, the account holder could take whatever they've paid in and start over or use it toward an early retirement.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  50. icon
    Nom du Clavier (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 12:17pm

    Re: Re: Re: No lawsuit needed

    Rent -> Interest*

    link to this | view in thread ]

  51. icon
    That One Guy (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 12:25pm

    Re: Re:

    Have a 'sad but true' vote.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  52. icon
    Rick Smith (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 12:46pm

    Re: Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    I concede, I had not thought of specialized courts in that manner. Also, not being all that familiar with the current varieties of courts available, I did not realize that we basically had a similar system already in place at the appeals level, which apparently has already shown this idea to useless.

    I also agree (and have for many years) with those who suggested that we need to get rid of software patents. Actually, since reading Techdirt, I have expanded that view to just about all patents; I think they all need to go.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  53. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 1:07pm

    Re:

    Rolls-Royce?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  54. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 1:12pm

    Re: Re: Re: Other East Texas News

    So we split up the state into Good Texas, WTF Texas, and Nearly Empty Texas? I remember driving through that latter part. Miles and miles of nothin' but miles and miles.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  55. identicon
    Andrew D. Todd, 16 Oct 2012 @ 2:31pm

    Courts vs. Judges, to Rick Smith, #52

    Don't confuse courts with judges. Judges can be drafted into a court according to a regular rota, for a single case. A CAFC panel could be populated with a majority of judges from the regular geographic Circuits Courts of Appeal. This would eliminate the opportunity for "court shopping," but it would also prevent the judges from being professional patent judges, certainly to the point that they would not talk about their "right" to over-ride the Supreme Court.You can get the best of both worlds, so to speak.

    The same principle would apply for a court of the first instance, such as a Patent Infringement Court. District Court judges from all over the United States would go, on sabbatical as it were, to Washington. Most of them would have the perception that this was their chance to be considered for an Appellate judgeship, with the eyes of Congress and the Supreme Court upon them, so they would want to do the best possible job.

    As for juries, the best solution, assuming you cannot produce a jury which is truly impartial by reason of ignorance, is to have juries serve "out of subject." That is, juries for software/electronics patent cases would be composed of civil engineers, and juries for construction-oriented patent cases would be composed of electrical engineers and computer scientists.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  56. identicon
    Anonymous Coward, 16 Oct 2012 @ 3:44pm

    Re: Courts vs. Judges, to Rick Smith, #52

    ...to Rick Smith, #52

    Is the “reply to this” link —underneath each comment— is that hyperlink borked for you?   Or does it just not suit your style?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  57. icon
    Bergman (profile), 16 Oct 2012 @ 9:45pm

    Someone should file for a patent on suing people for patent violation in East Texas.

    Then, the next time a patent troll tries it, sue them for patent violation.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  58. icon
    Thomas (profile), 17 Oct 2012 @ 5:07am

    Well paid...

    the judges and juries in East Texas must be well paid by the patent trolls. I wonder if they get a percentage of the amounts awarded or just a flat fee? Paid in cash or in "gifts" such as cars, drugs, or hookers? It must be nice to live in a town where you can get rich being on a jury. And the judges? does anyone ever investigate to see if they are getting bribed?

    link to this | view in thread ]

  59. icon
    Rick Smith (profile), 17 Oct 2012 @ 6:18am

    Re: Re: Courts vs. Judges, to Rick Smith, #52

    The reply to link seems to be working just fine for me.

    Why do you ask?

    I made two posts on this thread, the first was done as a comment to the main article, the second as a reply to Mike's comment about my thoughts. This post makes number 3 and is a reply to you. And everything looks correct on screen.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  60. icon
    Rick Smith (profile), 17 Oct 2012 @ 6:26am

    Re: Re: Courts vs. Judges, to Rick Smith, #52

    I just realized that I misinterpreted your post. It was not meant for me but Andrew. What can I say; I'm still half a sleep.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  61. identicon
    Philly Bob, 17 Oct 2012 @ 9:20am

    Re: Re: Re: Why east Texas

    I would have said a Commodore 64 but I wouldn't want to insult the Commodore users.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  62. identicon
    Philly Bob, 17 Oct 2012 @ 9:22am

    Re: Re: Re: Why east Texas

    That is just F-ing hysterical! Love it!

    link to this | view in thread ]

  63. identicon
    Philly Bob, 17 Oct 2012 @ 9:28am

    Re: This story gave me two thoughts...

    "First (and sorry to all of you Big Government haters out there) is that all patent cases need to be handled by a special court that only deals in patent cases. This would be located in only one physical location. The jury, if one is involved, should be comprised of people who have knowledge of the industry in which the patent was issued for."

    Yeah... like that'll ever happen.
    You'd have a better chance at seeing Christ...
    who would probably get sued by organized religion (in East Texas) for putting them out of business.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  64. icon
    edinjapan (profile), 17 Oct 2012 @ 8:52pm

    So, in the closing statement I hope the owner of Digital River stood up and gave the final closing speech when the verdict came down.

    "Your Honor and Respected Members of the Court. I'd like to thank you for your judgement, unfortunately Digital River is unable to pay one red cent of this judgement, we will not be paying our legal representatives or any other legal fees or obligations incurred because of this judgement. We are immediately declaring bankruptcy under Chapter 11 Title 11 of the law, all employees of the company are forthwith made redundant, we apologize to our customers and creditors.

    Then I expect the company's spokesman/president or whoever to turn to the representatives from Nexchange and tell them "Inform your clients they'll get their money when Hell freezes over!" and then turn to the judge and ask him "Your Honor, you've just destroyed a company. Are you happy? Are you proud of yourself?"

    If even a few companies did this the courts would get the message and there would be fewer patent trolls doing this shit.

    link to this | view in thread ]

  65. icon
    Trails (profile), 18 Oct 2012 @ 3:18pm

    Re: Let me get this straight.

    Behold, for not only has the scoundrel Baldaur violated the patents, but he has violated the law of causality itself.

    You, Baldaur, are worse than Hitler.

    link to this | view in thread ]


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