Early-Morning Raid Sent To Confiscate 9-Year-Old's Winnie The Pooh Laptop For Downloading Music
from the a-question-of-priorities dept
One of the biggest problems with the current approach to dealing with alleged copyright infringement is the totally disproportionate nature of the action undertaken in response to it. The "three strikes" collective punishment of households that is available in France, New Zealand and South Korea is one example of this. From Finland, we learn about another completely over-the-top action:CIAPC, the company that had The Pirate Bay blocked by ISPs in Finland, tracked an alleged file-sharer and demanded a cash settlement. However, the Internet account holder refused to pay which escalated things to an unprecedented level. In response, this week police raided the home of the 9-year-old suspect and confiscated her Winnie the Pooh laptop.The specific details are worrying:
Tuesday morning the doorbell of the family home rang around 8am and the man, who works in the hospitality sector, had quite a shock. Police were at his door with a search warrant authorizing the hunt for evidence connected to illicit file-sharing.This kind of early-morning raid would be more appropriate for dealing with serious and dangerous criminals than 9-year-old girls (barely even mentioning that the girl's father claims her attempts at downloading failed, leading them to go purchase the music legally anyway). Similarly, the fact that for such a trivial case the account-holder's name and address were obtained from the ISP, and a search warrant issued, shows how out of control the law has become in this area.
Under the malign influence of the copyright companies, it would seem that the police force is now little more than a bunch of heavies sent around at ridiculous hours of the day to frighten people who refuse to pay the arbitrary sums demanded. It's hard to square this colossal waste of police time and public money with the deadly threat of terrorism that we supposedly live under: is intimidating members of the public in this way really such a priority for the Finnish state? It's also disappointing to see the legal system in Finland and elsewhere acquiescing in this terrible perversion by powerful lobbies of what is supposed to be even-handed, proportionate justice for all.
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Filed Under: excessive, file sharing, finland, kids, laptops
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No flashbangs
The cops didn't throw a flashbang at the nine-year old, either.
When a nine-year old doesn't go to the hospital with burns from a flashbang——she got off real easy.
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Either way, the Pirates win.
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I assume that doesn't matter - if she's signed to a major label, that means she's agreed to let them handle her affairs, even if they do it in a stupid and counter-productive way.
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The better question is, how much of the money demanded ($600 Euro IIRC) went to WB from the pirate hunters, and of that how much finally makes it to the artists?
$600 euro penalties and they can't figure out why people keep ignoring copyright.
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It is called do not sign if you do not agree.
Crying that you want the rest of it and should not be held responsible for the bad stuff that you agreed to because you only agreed to get the money means less than nothing.
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Shareholders have the copyright on that patent. Tis the reason corporations were formed.
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Her failure to negotiate a proper contract put that little girl at risk.
Her desire to sign up with a corporate vulture put that little girl at risk.
It's about time some of the artists face the consequences of their choices, rather than only their fans suffering.
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Yeah, she could have refused that tempting advance, that was offered with the veiled threat that "if you don't sign you'll remain a nobody for ever."
You see the tactics that WB employ towards their artists are really rather similar to those they use on their "customers".
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The slightly archaic language and spelling conventions notwithstanding, that's about as plain as it can possibly be: it was designed to protect the authors against the depredations and abuses of publishers.
It was a good idea at the time, and it remains a good idea today. The problem is that we aren't following it today. Copyright has been corrupted and twisted into an Orwellian mockery of its original form.
The Statute of Anne was designed to prevent publishers from using their wealth and power and expensive modern technology (the printing press, in this case) to abuse people. The DMCA and subsequent acts are designed explicitly to *enable* them to do so.
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copyright encompasses several distinct exclusive rights.
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With copyright, it actually works the other way around. The "natural" state is that once you create a work, everybody else is able to use it as and how they wish. Copyright is a temporary monopoly granted to enable the creator of the work to be the first one able to profit (and thus, in theory, promote the creation of further works). It's possible to reject some or all of these copyright protections (by releasing something as public domain, creative commons, etc.) or sell/transfer them as desired.
So, while you can defer your copyright to someone else on your behalf, you can't defer your natural rights that haven't been restricted.
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I, for one, will wait to see what actions she takes in response before judging her.
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How come? In Germany entire law firms have specialized on sending threat letters to alleged filesharers earning decent money on this without necessarily informing any artist or cutting them in.
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In fact, any who make music for labels does not own their music. Thus no one can stop the labels from being douchebags.
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WTF?
Since the RIAA is above the law, then the artists who sign up with the RIAA labels should be held accountable for this crap.
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Re: WTF?
The artist herself, the organisation in question (CIAPC) and the victims were all Finnish.
I still get your point though, it does seem similar to how the RIAA likes to do business.
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Downloading music is a gateway crime that leads to pot use, STDs, and terrorism. You have to curb it immediately at the business end of an automatic rifle.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: WTF?
In America... “Grenade burns sleeping girl as SWAT team raids Billings home” by Zach Benoit, Billings Gazette, Oct 12, 2012
That's what happens in America.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: WTF?
In America... “Police Send SWAT Team, Break Into Wrong House (With TV Film Crew) In Response To Internet Troll” by Mike Masnick, Techdirt, Jun 22, 2012:
That's what happens in America.
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Re: Re: WTF?
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The artist herself, the organisation in question (CIAPC) and the victims were all Finnish."
True. But, it seems that the label she's signed to is a subsidiary of Warner Music. So, while the RIAA wasn't directly involved, one of its largest members surely was.
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Re: Re: WTF?
Kudos to Jon Newton of P2PNet for consistently pointing this out.
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Erm, forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't the excuse for the totally disproportionate punishments that they're directed at seeders rather than downloaders (although torrents make it difficult to make a real distinction)? Assuming that the account given is correct, they were raided for an action they hadn't carried out. Fair enough if it's a failed terrorist operation, not so good for a corporation not getting some profits they imagined they should have.
On top of that, this proves that the market solution works - you know, the one I and many other have been advocating for years that doesn't involve wasting police time and criminalising innocents. The girl tried piracy, then found that the legal option worked better. That's all that's really needed - make legal options better than the illegal ones. Assuming the pricing is affordable for her parents, she's almost certainly going to pay as her first option in future. Or, at least would have been before she had her property stolen.
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Doing something includes, but is not limited to, seeding conciously corrupted material, spread of vira, trojans and backdoor, tracking all activity on p2p-networks and try to push for DMCA-like requests for p2p. I think the illegal market around enforcing paywalls, copyrestrictions and rights is increasing and encouraging it seems like a bad idea. The true tragedy is that the police are as bad as they are at stopping any unwanted behavious on the internet. Only thing worse is the way of increasing their ability to do so would be far more crippling for societal trust in authorities.
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Erm, that makes no sense really. If the legal option is better then people are more likely to use it. That in itself reduces the problem of piracy to begin with. As for the industry "doing nothing about piracy", what would the problem be there? It's only being enforced like this because they demand it, what would be the problem if they realised that they didn't need to?
Also take note, I didn't say "don't use other methods to stop piracy". It's just clear that only attacking the supply end without considering the reasons people demand the pirate options is doomed to failure.
"Doing something includes, but is not limited to, seeding conciously corrupted material, spread of vira, trojans and backdoor, tracking all activity on p2p-networks and try to push for DMCA-like requests for p2p."
It also includes making the product available to buy, in the desired format, DRM-free and without usage and regional restrictions, at a reasonable price with as little hassle during the purchase as possible. Strangely enough, not only is my list more palatable, it's almost certainly more effective.
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Actually, not quite. As has been demonstrated time after time after time, if you make the legal option the better option, (via things like reasonable pricing, convenience, and no insane restrictions), it has a very noticeable effect on piracy rates, namely causing them to nosedive.
Conversely, just about all the efforts the *AA's have come up with to attack piracy directly(DRM anyone?) either has no effect at all, or actually drives more people to piracy.
So as strange as it may seem, the better option is to, for the most part, 'do nothing about piracy', directly at least, and instead focus on making the legal option the better one. Do that, and piracy rates will take a huge hit
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The point is that the biggest enemy of the first type of pirate is the second type.
On the principle of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" you should embrace the second type because:
i) They do not (in these digital days) propagate sub-standard versions of your work (ruiniung you reputation.
ii) They act as unpaid puiblicists - proving exposure that would cost a huge amount if you had to buy it....
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If the legal options are better than piracy, then the industry doesn't have to do anything different - they would be winning!
Doing nothing about piracy is completely incomprehensible for the industry.
No argument from me, but the list of things also incromprehensible to the industry also includes any understanding of economics, common sense, patience, and probably any form form of human decency.
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You talk of legal vs. illegal when it comes to listening to music. And then you talk of ways to curb the "illegal option".
But let me inform you (depending on jurisdiction, YMMV):
- spreading viruses is illegal ("vira" is not a word)
- spreading trojans is illegal
- spreading backdoors is illegal
- tracking all activity on p2p networks is morally reprehensible and possible illegal
And not just illegal but despicable too.
Jaywalking is illegal, yes. But shooting a jaywalker in the leg with a gun is illegal too.
Have some sense of proportionality. Oh, and while you're at it, irony too. :)
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It always irritates me when I hear someone fall back on the lame old 'but he/she broke the law' technicality. I can only assume that these people are unaware that every person in the US/Canada/UK (probably other western nations as well but I am only certain of these three) breaks the law at least once a day even if they simply stand still. There are actually laws specifically intended for the purpose of ensuring this (I learned this and some other interesting facts during a stint I spent working as an outside contractor with the police department). These laws were used to arrest serious suspects when no other evidence could be found. Sometimes just arresting someone will lead to a confession. These days they just make up false charges instead.
The truth is that 'breaking the law' is a meaningless concept and a really stupid excuse for excessive police activity.
The sad fact is that this situation should never have involved the police (at most one officer might have been present to ensure cooperation while examining/confiscating the computer. There was certainly no justification for the presence of a fully armed squad.
Depressing note: Did you know that if you stop at a stop sign you can get a traffic ticket? All that is required is that your wheels stop turning. Period. Words straight from the mouth of a bylaw enforcement officer. And if you've ever had to deal with one of those people you know just how ridiculous the law can be when read by the letter rather then the intent.
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Making the "legal" option better by coming down hard on people not using it.
Unfortunately it turns out that the people who use the illegal options are often some of the biggest users of the legal options too and most people feel more sympathetic to 9 year old girls than umbrella organisations for publishers who seem to hate their customers.
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Except, that doesn't work, and certainly not in the way intended. As evidenced by the endless "war on drugs", attacking the supply means nothing if the demand for the illicit product remains strong.
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Making the "legal" option better by coming down hard on people not using it."
That's not making the legal option better, that's attempting (and failing) to make the illegal option worse. This is their problem, they're focusing on the wrong end of the scale. If they actually attempted to make the legal option better, the illegal option would fade into obscurity.
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You should try this new supplier called Piracy(TM). Products acquired through Piracy(TM) will never break since they are digital-only, unlike discs. Also, if you download something through Piracy(TM) and you accidentally delete it, you can usually (no guarantees implied, your milage may vary) download it again for free!
Regular suppliers of content have yet to catch up with this level of service and technological flexibility.
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"Piracy" in the technical sense of making an infringing copy of something is in no way enabled or hampered by making the legal option better. There is not one format or technical restriction that has ever or will ever prevent copies being made and obtained. As technology advances this can only become cheaper and easier when it already costs next to nothing for circumventing the most complex "protection" available and is accomplishable by anyone with minimal skills.
Unless laws literally mandate (and fund of course) the total and constant monitoring of everyone's life and enforce harsh punishments making the smallest infringing of copyright approximately equivalent of violent crime there will be little effect on copyright infringement and even then I doubt it would stop. Conversely, I'd imagine that if enforcement of copyright was dialed back to cover only the most gratuitous for-profit infringement, the amount of infringement would likely also change very little.
On the other hand, making legal offerings better, easier and cheaper would very quickly reduce the amount of infringement and also make more money. The problem is the corporations currently holding the strings know they're too old and slow to actually compete in a marketplace like that because they've long since forgotten how and so they'll do anythign they can to avoid it even if it means less money than they could have.
Oh, and:Please don't refer to things like this as "piracy", you're just playing their game. The obvious aim is for anything other than each an every person who "consumes content" paying each and every time they do to be declared illegal. Every time you refer to something that any sane person would consider a perfectly reasonable use of something that you've paid for as "piracy" you're vailidating a step towards that worldview.
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No - because that would entail sonmehow coming down hard on people who don't purchase their products because they don't like them - or maybe have never even heard of them.
What they mean is trying to make the illegal option a lot worse by making the legal option a little worse.
Unfortunately only the second half of that sentence actually happens in reality.
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Which they ended up getting anyway well before the raid (she bought the album anyway, after trying to preview the music using torrent)
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Sweet delight
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Same stupidity all over again
Can't supply the service so fine anyone who doesn't pay for the service.
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In the U.S.
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Merry Christmas kiddo! Now hand over your Winnie the Pooh laptop. What's that? You need it to do your homework? Too bad, Winnie the Pooh is going to jail, and you're Daddy might too.
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Classic example of appeal to emotions.
You toss in: "is intimidating members of the public in this way really such a priority for the Finnish state?" -- YES, YES, it is. Just not in the ironic way that I presume you intend.
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
As opposed to the poor corn farmers lamented by the movie industry?
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
The retail industry writes off their losses due to shoplifting, while the content industry desires a full police state to recoup their losses.
Writing off the losses to piracy would make all our lives easier and without the police state monitoring and raids (home invasions).
The RIAA's actions are nearly indistinguishable from a criminal protection racket.
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I like this!
Let the IRS decide just what their losses per year are.
They will want to know how the fuck they have stayed in business for so long while steadily losing money.
They want "property" rights and privileges while paying no "property" tax and expect law enforcement to uphold a civil matter?
Start paying "property" tax you freeloaders.
What's that? Oh! That songs' copyright isn't worth $100 000 000?
(Just for you, into the black)
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Re: Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
Total fail! I certainly can't find any way of distinguishing those two!
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One's legal, the other isn't.
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
That isn't a morally meaningful distinction.
Blackmail is still blackmail, even if you are a cop.
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
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Hardly surprising, given that he hasn't managed to squeeze through his tiny skull the fact that this is an opinion blog based on stories broken elsewhere, not a primary news source (so of course they will be rewritten, dumbass). If he's managed to spend that much time here without understanding the basic purpose of the site, it's hardly surprising that every other argument he makes fails just as badly.
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
Charlie Brown, you're the best!
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
Thanks for making such an excellent and well supported argument. Your contributions here are valued by all.
I'm curious though why you've not yet decried the enabler of all this: Big Pooh.
Big Pooh continues to profit by enabling piracy off of the back of starving artists. Also, I heard Mike, the author of this blog articles, had dinner with Big Pooh and is funded by Big Pooh.
All the freetards here complain about Big Content from their parents' basement while popping pimples all over their fritos, but you and I know the truth. We know who really takes home the honey.
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Re: Classic example of appeal to emotions.
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There's a word for this. That word is Extortion.
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Winnie the Pooh Laptop
They should be taking preventative measures with their laptops to prevent unauthorized uses. If they don't, they should at least be paying the content industry a fee to produce such tools of piracy.
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Re: Winnie the Pooh Laptop
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"Oh bother," said Pooh. "Now we have to pay him in hunny."
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http://www.facebook.com/chisuofficial
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Winning the Hearts and Minds
Good job recording industry! Keep up the good work. You're winning the hearts and minds of the next generation.
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Re: Winning the Hearts and Minds
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Re: Winning the Hearts and Minds
You will have to read the TorrentFreak article on the matter to fact check.
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God it feels good to be able to have a proper question put to my statement. This is EXACTLY why I plug TechDirt when it's appropriate. We have a non-petulant crowd that respects rational thinking without the mob mentality.
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Re: Re: Re: Winning the Hearts and Minds
The way that the legal process normally does. Seize the 9 year old's laptop. Keep it in evidence until years after it becomes hopelessly obsolete. When she reaches, oh say, age 29, return it with a letter explaining that they have determined that the laptop was not involved in illegal downloading.
See how that works? Fair. Just. Everyone happy.
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These guys show up. Bust down your door. Steal your 9 year old's laptop. And say that you are being investigated by some unnamed government agency for some classified crime. The laptop must be seized as evidence for the recording industry.
Now just a few years ago I would have called the previous paragraph the ravings of a lunatic paranoid nutjob. Now I would call it "something exciting coming soon to a neighborhood near you!"
We've got to steal 9 year old's laptops to protect national security. After all, think of the children!
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Makes me wonder though what 9 year olds are getting into considering computers are being confiscated... ;-)
Thanks DannyB, you just made my day...
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Do they serve drug dealers when they raid their houses?
Don't think so....
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/apple-ordered-to-disclose-patent-settlement-with- htc/
Anyway gripes aside I read about this story in detail and I'm honestly flabbergasted and disgusted (though admittedly not suprised) that this would happen. The girl is freaking 9 years old for God's Sake. What makes it even worse is that even in Finland's over the top copyright laws still requires a warrant.
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Yeah, I can't see why they may have banned you. /s
Because you've never stated factually inaccurate information. /s
There's nothing wrong with liking products made by ANY company, but there is taking it to an extreme. At which point you become a fanboi. You passed that point long ago. As a fanboi, and your comment history is testament to you being one, facts and rational thinking waved bye bye a long time ago. When you defended a patent on page flipping and said others can just defend themselves in court... you showed your true colors. And that's ignoring the remark you made that basically went, "Well Samsung is just being childish with countersuits." Really?! Apple is suing everyone over everything and getting smacked down in non-U.S. courts but Samsung is being childish?! Sheesh.
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To be fair, someone gave the girl an eye mac pro. Unless "eye mac pro" is Finnish for "Big Mac."
But I agree with you. And well said. Thanks for saving me the labor!
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The AC commenting to you is infact a member of ArsTechnica, where a lot of the majority of users have a SEVER bias against Apple because Apple let Microsoft in to their world in 1997.
You want true colors? Look at the statement that got me banned.
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I am an AC who visits this site daily and takes note of all comments, even the troll ones and sees how people view different things. Now, as I pointed out above, there's nothing wrong with liking and using products by any company. Nothing at all. But your comment history reveals you to be an Apple fanboi, sorry to say. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, if done so with a bit of humility. As in, hey I think Apple rocks, but they fuck up occasionally and there are other competitors who Apple could stand to take note of and maybe learn to do things from. But YOU go out of your way to defend Apple even when they're in the wrong, you also on more than one occasion have stated things about Android that were as far from truthful as could be, you've also been caught out as posting under different "AC" names and then claimed it wasn't you that people were responding to (even though the snowflakes were all the same). And as is rather obvious, you seem to have a persecution complex. Assuming I followed you here from Ars. And you DO NOT just get banned from Ars for having one moderated comment, especially not one where you per your comment I'm replying to "stated that Samsung's Executives were not allowed to see the agreement as it was for "Lawyers' Eyes Only"." If you were banned it had to be for something more than that, and given your history here I wouldn't doubt that you were banned for excessive fanboi-ism in the same vein as you've done here (lies, distortion, etc.)
And sorry, but your link is irrelevant to the article at hand. And as I pointed out, leave it to YOU to bring up Apple in a non-Apple related article. You could QUITE EASILY just have said, "You know what, I love TechDirt. The community here is quite reasonable and respectful, even when it comes to differences of opinions, as opposed to other sites I've visited." And left it at that. But no, you just had to throw in Apple related nonsense in a non-Apple story. Which again, is part of your fanaticism. Save it for when it's called for, Apple related articles (and even then, try not to spin everything too "poor Apple, always being picked on sh*t on... because they're the best", which is how your comments come off as for those who can read between the lines).
TL;DR version: Wally, you've got issues. You aren't being followed, and you're an Apple fanboi (and not the kid that just like Apple products, but the kind who flip out when others point out Apple's shortcomings). If you got banned, you probably deserved it and I'm sure there's more to your banning than you're revealing here.
"you know how I get when I'm trolled" HA! You don't get trolled. Ever. Your definition of "trolled" is "people are saying things about Apple that I don't agree with and I will take what they say to heart and respond as if I've been personally attacked".
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See Wally, this is where you get called out for being a liar and your own words are used against you. You just said that the AC, me, was someone who they were not. You made this claim and basically, reading between the lines, were saying that someone from Ars is now here on TechDirt hounding you.
No, sir. The one looking like an arse and a liar is you. And I am not trolling you. Again, you don't know the definition of trolling. I merely pointed out, originally, that you brought up Apple in a non-Apple story. Then you went off from there, and are STILL defending Apple in a non-Apple article. If anything, the one trolling here is you. Bringing up Apple in non-Apple articles is something an Apple fanboi/troll does. Proof lies across countless number of websites, to the point that a large number of sites resorted to moderating comments and banning people who did exactly that. Essentially spamming non-Apple articles with Apple comments (and they instituted the same ban on Android and Windows and etc fans, so don't go start saying you're being persecuted against... which you've already pretty much stated... one comment DID NOT get you banned, regardless of your beliefs, common sense and logic pretty much say that, so you did something else).
Also, keep in mind that I didn't call you an Apple fanboi for liking Apple's products. I even stated REPEATEDLY that there is nothing wrong with liking ANY companies products/services. I stated that where you crossed that supporter to fanboi line was when you defend Apple when they're in the wrong, make provably false claims and assertions about Android, go out of your way to bring up Apple in non-Apple articles, claim you're being persecuted against (banned by Ars) for making a "simple statement", and so on and so forth.
Basically, you're a fanboi because you're acting and doing all the things fanbois do. Not because you just like Apple products.
And I'm just basically replying to all your other replies to me in this one comment. No need to keep replying back and forth. You aren't getting trolled, you're doing the trolling. You're a fanboi, that's already proven and your own comment history backs up my assertions that you are one, and so on and so forth. No need to go back and forth over this. You got called out, you've done nothing but prove said calling out as true. Now just drop it. We get it, Apple rocks, Wally was wronged by Ars, blah blah blah. Move on already, fanboi.
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When have you ever heard an Apple fanboy say anything like that? ;-)
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And I always pointed out that Apple is no angel. And insulting me on that scale is a bit dangerous. The reason I feel iOS is superior is because it suites my needs the way I like them....to each his own.
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No, you've never pointed out that Apple is no angel. And if you have, when you rarely have, it's been followed by something along the lines of, "EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING IT!" Which again, proof lies in your posts. Apple is filing ridiculous lawsuits, and actually started the whole ridiculous lawsuits thing. But you go and say, "Samsung is doing it too! So ha! It's not just Apple!"
As for insulting you on that scale? I did not insult you. I merely pointed out what you have in fact done on numerous occasions. This is not an insult, it is a verifiable fact. Nor is it any way dangerous. Unless of course you don't like having our your behavior and actions pointed out and commented upon, and feel threatened when someone does so. In that case it might be dangerous, but if by dangerous you mean, "I will get riled up for you daring to have the nerve to call me out on my BS and attempt to insult you!" Then yeah, dangerous it is. But you're not that witty and you can't actually push my buttons. I can't say the same applies for you.
And that's fine, feeling iOS is superior for YOU based on YOUR NEEDS. But attempting to discredit operating systems based on your limited knowledge of them, as well as completely fabricated and false information is in no way acceptable. I have and will continue to call you out for such behavior. I've said so time and time again. And superior is in the eye of the beholder. If you need to make things up about Android to make iOS sound superior, which you have, again, done on numerous occasions, then we have a problem. And it's not with Android, but with possibly you having an inferiority complex as it pertains to your mobile OS of choice. It's not hard to say, "I like iOS because of reasons X, Y and Z. I think iOS is superior because of reasons X, Y and Z. But that is my own personal preference and to each their own. End of statement." If you have to make things up or spread already debunked lies then you aren't allowing to each their own, you're going out of your way to create and perpetuate falsehoods. If you believed in to each their own there would be no reason to do so. Again, possible inferiority complex.
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Crap!!!
Wally and I have had numerous discussions regarding Apple v Samsung etc, and he has always come across as yes someone who likes Apple but also someone who also thinks that they are being complete iDiots (pun intended) in a lot of situations to do with the patent wars (and other marketing weirdness too)
Looking at the public comments he has left on ARS, in this context (I do not have access to anything else that may have or may not of occurred) I am left with a sense that ARS has been absolutely unreasonable based on Wally2 actually providing cited and reasonable critical discourse on the current situation.
In fact for ARS to have actually moderated one of the specific posts he made based on "trollike behaviour" is freakin ridiculous and inequitable in the extreme having seen some of the other comments on the same thread and others throughout ARS by others who absolutely are trolling and never ever get sanctioned... ARS is NOT the best community if you have a differing (and backable) opinion.
Why we have had a whole thread just to discuss this 'wally likes TD better than ARS" is strange, though a testament to his original claim that ARS is better than TD in respect to the community allowing and wanting discourse.
and Samsung and other things
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hmmmm. Disregard
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I find it much more relaxing here because arguments I've gotten into here, I've always met middle ground and learned something new without flat out being told I'm wrong with no explanation.
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You are such an apple fan boy.
Every article you comment on here gets lead back to apple. This article has fuck all to do with apple and you link to an apple article.
Just fuck off from here as well would you?
Oh and Apple suck balls!
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Remember all those AC trolls going "pirate Mike!!!"? The following is giving me reason to believe they come from Arstechnica.
"Just fuck off from here as well would you?"
Now before you decide on what you wish to do with the rest of your life, make sure your career path is not trolling. Your job ends up making you live under a bridge near a sewer drain in a bog out in the middle of nowhere.
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I have no idea how you get when trolled. All I know on that subject is that you are the self-appointed king troll-buster.
P.S. Neither the ac comment nor mine are troll comments. Simply stating facts and opinions. If you think they are trollish, take a look in the mirror.
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My main gripe about the ban is that it was based automated, unchecked, "number of complaints limit before we give you the boot" system. Fanboy or not, I did not let my bias get in the way. Here, the only punishment is that your comment gets reported as abusive and gets hidden while you still maintain your word.
A lot of the anti-Apple sentiment there has nothing to do with Apple vs. Android. I was told on good authority that a lot of the French users there have a bias because Apple was once so "exclusive" and "unique" and they were upset that Gassé being fired and Jobs replacing Gassé's business model. So when I said "hey, wait a minute, look here at Samsung's recent executive level litigations, they are just as crazy as Apple now" I got dogpiled upon. Whenever I am asked/pushed to look for evidence on pure rational thought and reason, that's where I got extreme.
I'm not a fanboy for at least mildly supporting a company I grew up on. If you are not from the US, I'm aware you might not understand the nostalgia behind it. Most schools in the US while I was in grade school and jr. high, had Apple computers. So really it's more that I know from their products that I'm used over the years, I have a legitimate reason for showing a little support for them.. Though I'm not happy about OSX.
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You're misquoting me and you're telling nonsense.
The thing that was irritating about you was not that you stated that Samsung was doing the same thing as Apple. It was that you were doing the same kind of bullshit that Fandroids do.
Fandroids repeat over and over that Apple has a patent on all rectangle devices with rounded angles, which is incorrect, you had this weird claim that Samsung supposedly used a patent against every device with variable volume and sound output.
In the debate, you chose to dumb it down. On AT, we get irritating people, but not people who reduce the case to rounded angles stuff. I didn't ask for moderation but I don't feel you had relevant contributions to the discussion.
Then, the French Apple bashing, on MacBidouille/HardMac. You totally distorted my comment. I mentioned another group of Apple haters that weren't your average Open Source enthusiasts. I was pointing out that some of the complainers had been traditional Mac users for a long time, some of them even at a time Apple was truly beleaguered (wow... remember when you had to add "beleaguered" to Apple?), in the mid-90s.
I don't know where you got your Gassée crap from, but if it's legal, I'd like to know where I can order some. This had nothing to do with Gassée or Spindler, or Amelio. And it has everything to do with Apple moving on other fields during the noughties, on the portable audio player, smartphone, and tablet businesses, with some success.
A few prosumer Mac users feel estranged by the new Apple. Besides being understandably bothered by how Apple doesn't take care of their needs (the aging Mac Pro, Final Cut Pro X...), some of them have moved towards total bitterness and nastiness, including the site editor in chief, while his site might be the 2nd one in terms of traffic in France and French speaking European countries.
As a a result, the news coverage has been surreal for one or two years. In my opinion, the forums are full of disgruntled guys who felt that they were members of the elite 1% in the 90s and early 00s, when they were physicians or "creatives" who used Macs for their needs, even if was more a symbol of status the way a BMW or a Rolex is.
Now that Apple is also a consumer brand, they see the value of using Apple products severely reduced and thus their own sense of importance. Hence, in my opinion, the nastiness.
They idealize how "great" Apple was in the early '00s, even if they fail to remember that the OS 9 - OS X transition was a rough one, the G4 was a true lame duck and Apple mostly survived thanks to the iPod being such a big hit.
They will bitch endlessly about the focus on iPhone and iPad in Apple strategy compared to the Mac (and there, the focus on laptops against desktops) while failing to understand all the stats and news about the slump in the PC market, its own move from desktop to laptop and the booming market of tablets and other mobile devices.
To sum it up, they bitch because Apple tries to fight on the battle front while disregarding their home turf from a decade or 15 years ago. They fail to see that the entire industry is now disregarding this, Apple being just more blunt than the others.
As a result, we have on the forums for this French board tons of guys who claim that they got rid of every Apple device they had, and then still keep on writing a dozen posts every day on an Apple centered forum, just to bitch about the company that made their former computer. This is a ridiculous love-hate relationship, and I just used it as an example of how Apple was a target of passion even outside of the Android/Free Software community. You can't put everybody in the same sack.
And, on the same principle, I don't think that your views were just one of a harmless Apple user. You were deliberately attacking Samsung with fabricated arguments that had little to do with the situation, in order to incense Android fans there and make the discussion even more lowbrow than it already was. You were rightfully flagged for that.
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Assuming it's been reported accurately, we have an "investigation" launched on flimsy evidence (no, IP addresses still don't identify people, the file supposedly downloaded apparently wasn't) that led to an attempt at extorting a 3rd party (the account holder isn't the "offender"), followed by a raid far more appropriate for targeting dangerous criminals, then confiscation of private property whose value far exceeds any losses caused by the "crime" (if indeed it did take place). All because the record label had apparently failed to make the legal options accessible and easier to locate (the suggestion seems to be that she found the Pirate Bay link via a Google search, and that the legal option they reverted to was a physical store purchase rather than iTunes/Spotify/whatever else is available in Finland - SEO rather than police raids may have been the real solution here).
The age and laptop decor seem to be getting the headlines, but anyone who thinks that the newsworthiness ends there is missing most of the real objections. As usual.
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Scenario 1: Let's assume for a moment that she's using iTunes to rip a CD. It's a fairly common thing to do. This means to gather evidence, they would have to commit to a physical data beech (viewing her desktop). So that would mean that there was illegal access to the computer. Would it be possible to gain access to files and folders on someone else's computer through a local DHT connection? That explains why my ISP (time warner) no longer allows them.
2. Assuming she did use a torrent, how many legitmate digital distribution systems (like Steam, GOG.com's downloader, or anyone familiar with how StarCraft 2 and WoW are updated) do you know of that are known to use BitTorrent protocol? Quite a few.
Either way you look, there's more evidence of criminal activity from the police than there is any evidence that this 9 year old girl actually pirated songs.
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"Warner Music's CEO Niko Nordström commented on this as follows: "Carey has not been aware of the issue and it is unconscionable that he is in fact picked on. This could have happened to any recording artist or record company. TTVK drive on a centralised basis, among other things, the music creators, artists, record companies and publishers. The assertion that TTVK and the record company would have tuned the trap is baseless.
TTVK has determined that certain IP addresses are distributed pirated music files. After this, the TTVK has asked the Court for permission to disclose the information of the holder of the IP soitteen. The IP address does not indicate, for example, the user's age. This procedure is currently the only way to tackle illegal downloading. The power of the State is requested to provide for alternative and softer approaches. " T: Chisu team "
Bullshit.
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TechDirtians, tell me when I start getting too harsh on him.
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It's quite simple, DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. You don't want to get "trolled"? As I've said before, stop bringing up Apple in non-Apple articles. Don't want to get "picked on"? Stop making false claims and spreading misinformation about operating systems you, quite obviously, know nothing about. And so on and so forth.
You need to be mindful of your own behavior before you start chastising others about theirs. I also had this interesting remark I was going to make about a 26 year old (which I've seen you say you are) acting like a child, but the truth is I only recently turned 27 myself (4 months ago) and it kind of pains me to realize there are other people so near my age that can't act mature online that I decided to spare you the witty remark. Well that and I was a bit nervous it would seem as if I was picking on you.
But yes, don't get too harsh on him. /s (Just fyi, as I said before I pay attention to what others write on this site. I've seen your "harsh" responses to "trolls". They're anything but. In fact, I see them for what they are. Responses from someone whose skin is quite thin and whose buttons are beyond easy to push. But "harsh"? Hardly.)
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You're being TL/DNR and honestly I don't have the time or energy to read your posts. You are being no better than as you claim me to be so just drop it.
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We are really not that stupid, only most of our politicans, prosecuters and policeofficers are... We are sorry =(
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Heart broken much?
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This is how sky net is born. Winnie the Pooh laptops across the world will soon rise up and defend themselves.
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SPYING
The INTERNET works with packets. If you use phone terms, each packet has the called phone number and the calling phone number and the voice(DATA). The packets bounce through the Internet In a direct route. This message packet went, My computer to my isp, to isp ... to Techdirt.
So CIAPC had to be SPYING or part or a member of the download conversation! I think most people call it SPYING when someone makes it a point to be a member of a conversation uninvited!!
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Its happened in the past with paraplegics and people in ill health or even dead. There's been a few in the past that were dropped because the bad publicity was so bad there was no way to justify the action. The equivalent of continuing to dig the hole deeper.
It demonstrates just how out of control these enforcement actions and extortion attempts are.
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I quit going to that site the day they decided that running adblockers was stealing their income. I've heard many others say they dropped the site too and never returned.
I hear now-a-days they don't seem to mind so much adblockers because that error caused their readership to drop hence their ad income wasn't worth as much anymore.
Ah, I'm good with that. Don't plan on returning to such a place. I can find news elsewhere without the harassment.
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Soy attitude towards them is now that of Eric Cartman "Screw You Guys, I'm going home".
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Your 1st Amendment rights were not involved, since Ars is not part of the government.
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You would think they were running the site like Russia or the PRC at this point.
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Of course, but just because you have a right to freedom of expression doesn't obligate anyone to provide you a platform for that expression.
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I am aware mildly of time and place though.
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Yeah same here. And I used to read them every day.
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:-)
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We live in a sick world
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clarification
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Shooting themselves in the foot
If your business model requires a police state to implement, then you need a new business model, no matter how morally justified you feel.
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There's no need to overstate the case. Just say what it is.
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Raid??
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Re: Raid??
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My wish
If only the unions that control the radio announcers and radio/TV technicians put a ban on playing or showing any product made by members of the RIAA and stuck to music from Independents and non RIAA record companies then there would be a complete change of guard in a few days.
Without radio or TV artists associated with the RIAA companies would see their sales drop to Zero.
Watch the multies change their approach big time.
Nice to dream sometimes.
I hope this girl's parents sue big time and demand the removal of whichever judge granted the warrant.
No back to reality and find a place to hide my Micky Mouse laptop.
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REALLY?
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